CZ- you mentioned Atrox only armor. If its not better than mk2, no one will wear it

[odian102]

Atrox does have a disadvantage, but if your fix for this is atrox only armor, you might want to see what everyone is wearing. If the atrox only armor is not better than that, then no one will use it.

What im talking about is more on the lines of the Armor's special abilities, not just armor class rating. We all know that mobs hit for min. damage, so having anymore than 3500 ac doesnt make that big of a difference.

The armor should be better than MK2. Why?

because at higher lvls, is where u really start to see the disadvantage of the atrox breed caps and like I said, If the specials are not better then NO one will wear it.
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I would suggest 2 types of Atrox armor: w/ its specials geared for
-Ranged attacks
-Melee attacks.

Without 2 different types of armor, you will leave out half the Atrox population.

[ethernal3]

First off, I would like to state that atroxes should be able to have the "best" armor, minus things like MKII or Dragon (body) and such. Unless it required a lot of effort to get, that is. Atroxes should be able to wear the best armor, though I believe that perhaps a nice "fix" would be to add 10-20% extra ACs (or bonuses perhaps, but that's a bit extreme) for any armor that you wear. Now, going below...

Originally posted by Odian102


What im talking about is more on the lines of the Armor's special abilities, not just armor class rating. We all know that mobs hit for min. damage, so having anymore than 3500 ac doesnt make that big of a difference.

That is not very truthful. I, as an engineer, can have around 5.5k ACs (with Aegis + Sympathetic Fortress Screen + MKII) and Enforcer and Soldier mobs do not hit me for minimum damage.. Unless they are a very green veteran or master mob. Therefore adding ACs does help a good bit.
~Chris

[_____________Bartiir]

Originally posted by Megabio

That is not very truthful. I, as an engineer, can have around 5.5k ACs (with Aegis + Sympathetic Fortress Screen + MKII) and Enforcer and Soldier mobs do not hit me for minimum damage.. Unless they are a very green veteran or master mob. Therefore adding ACs does help a good bit.
~Chris

Hmmm.. but there IS a cut off... for instance, I have 5.6K unbuffed melee AC. Fighting a green enforcer I get hit for 250 melee damage. I drain up to 7.2K melee ac.... and i still get hit for 250. Only thing I have noticed for increasing the ac is that the crit hits drop lower by an approximate 100 - 125 points per 1K ac.

[odian102]

Cz,

Like I stated before, the breed cap disadvantage only really shows up on high lvl players. So, If its not better then MK2. Why would atrox breeds switch to it? They won't!

See, what's the point in bring in new atrox armor if mk2 is better then it.

If all breeds can wear mk2 and its the best armor, then why switch to a breed specific armor that is suppost to make up for that breeds disadvantaged ability caps.

Oh, I should know. Im a trader, I can raise my armor class up 2k points and I see very little difference when my armor class is increased 2k points. So, even if you made the atrox armor 2k higher in ac over anyother armor in the game. I would not switch from my mk2, because I have experienced the reality of what 2k increase in armor class can do ( which is very little).

Armor is all about special abilities, not so much in general AC.

[Bionitrous]

As far as Atrox-only armor, I would be fine if it did nothing more than simply look good as social armor. I'm not interested in being 'fixed' by being given pity in the form of trinkets. If an Atrox-only armor were to be created and it were powerful, I would want it to be 'Atrox-only' because the Atrox would be the only breed capable of equipping it. Not because of some database toggle made by some geek in a cubicle.

I want other players to see an Atrox in some kickass battlegear and say 'damn, I wish I could ever get strong enough to wear that stuff. But, it ain't gonna happen. You guys are lucky you are so strong'.

NOT 'gee you guys are lucky, you get that cool Atrox-only stuff that the game designers gave to you'. Screw that.

I'll tell you right now, the last thing I want to see is more crap like the Support Beam. They simply must go about fixing the breeds at the breed level and not from the damn 'item' level. If you want to make Atrox-only armor then allow the Atrox to get his Str/Sta to 600 and put a the following requirements on it:

Strength > 600
Stamina > 600
Intelligence < 440

Good luck seeing a NanoMage NT in that. Point is, however, that it would be 'possible'. IP intensive, Probably Over-equipped unless he screws up his implant scheme. The whole nine yards. But if MrNanomage wants to wear a qlvl150 version of this stuff at character level 200, then more power to him.

But, note that this doesn't work unless they address the puny 32 point strength advantage that Atrox ends up with from the mid-160's to the end of the game. Don't even mention the measly 8 or so points extra Strength the Atrox gets from levels 1 to 160-something.

It's the breeds themselves that are broken.

I'm absolutely sick to death of 'items' being used to fix what was broken in beta. The change to give Atrox the same amount of hitpoints as Solitus has been shown to be the wrong move. Typical knee-jerk reaction by everyone who though Atrox was going to be the best breed for every profession. Bzzzt! Wrong answer. Even with 800 more hitpoints (by allowing 5 HP/Body Dev) there are would be other just as aptly suited breeds for most professions. It was a mistake fix the mistake.

The reason I can accept the Support Beam as being Atrox only is because it obviously requires a hand with a span of over a foot to grasp. That makes sense. Not as a balance issue. But just because it makes sense.

Now what type of armor would only be able to be worn by an Atrox? Seriously, this balancing through items makes me sick. If a Solitus has 400 Strength and 400 Stamina, give me one good reason why he/she can't wear the same exact armor as an Atrox with 400 Strength and 400 Stamina.

I'll give you a reason. And it involves game designers who care and are willing to do the right thing:

Atrox are fixed a bit by adding to their natural regeneration rate. For example, at some arbitrary level, if you normally get 20 hitpoints back through natural regeneration, as an Atrox you might get 60 hitpoints back. Now put HealDelta modifier on this 'Atrox-only' armor that because of it's weight actually reduces your ability to regenerate. Let's say at the 'target' Qlvl for our test Atrox the penalty to HealDelta is -40. MrAtrox can use the armor and basically notice little ill-effect. But, MrSolitus would be taking a 20pt DoT every time he normally would be healing.

The numbers aren't put up for discussion. It's simply the concept that the breeds need to be fixed at the core. I don't simply want some god damned ring to hunt down that gives the Atrox more hitpoints or regeneration. That's total horsecrap and a copout by the game designers. And unless it's given to you at the character creation terminals, it's just one more thing to piss off the players for having to camp even more.

[Bionitrous]

Bartir, that's the minimum damage. MOB's hit for minimum damage that is equal to their level. You could have a million AC and still get hit for the same amount.

The only thing that can lower this is your reflection percentages and nanos that lower damage output.

[odian102]

CZ has already stated that FUNCOM is not going to alter the breeds ability caps. He did state that in 14.6, there might be atrox only armor. So, your point to very good, but not going to happen in the near future.

So, if Funcom has decided to make atrox only armor to off-set the breed disadvantage, then make the armor useful. that was the point of this post. Debating about how funcom should fix it is pointless. But debating about the armor is relevant.

All im saying is if the armor is not better then MK2. Then whats the point. NO one will wear it.

[_____________Bartiir]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
Bartir, that's the minimum damage. MOB's hit for minimum damage that is equal to their level. You could have a million AC and still get hit for the same amount.

The only thing that can lower this is your reflection percentages and nanos that lower damage output.

Gahhh.. you're right. Apologies to megabio... I read his statement wrong. He was saying he doesn't get hit for minimum damage... my bad.

[___________Admirable]

Originally posted by Bionitrous
As far as Atrox-only armor, I would be fine if it did nothing more than simply look good as social armor. I'm not interested in being 'fixed' by being given pity in the form of trinkets. If an Atrox-only armor were to be created and it were powerful, I would want it to be 'Atrox-only' because the Atrox would be the only breed capable of equipping it. Not because of some database toggle made by some geek in a cubicle.

I want other players to see an Atrox in some kickass battlegear and say 'damn, I wish I could ever get strong enough to wear that stuff. But, it ain't gonna happen. You guys are lucky you are so strong'.

Sad thing is, if they did make it like that... with str/stam eqs that mainly only atroxes can get, then I can tell you what would happen...

You'd get the same flood of whiners that are begging for the Full Auto Skill on the CHS to be lowered so that everyone can equip it easily and so that, as one soldier stated, they didn't have to wait til Lvl 150 to equip a QL200...

People are sick, because they aren't happy unless they can equip all the best gear at outrageously low levels and by everyone (if it doesn't have a proffesion req on it)

I'm in full support of what you say, In fact I'd go a step further and have the armor have these different reqs:

Str/Stam as main reqs.... for a QL200 version you'd have to have meet the atrox breed cap for str/stam +27 (obtainable by essence, +20 obtainable by IC, and +12 obtainable by gen buff, + 16 obtainable by cushions, +another 20 so that any other proffesion would have to implant in order to wear this armor as a QL200 armor..... This allows those that want to go out of their way to equip the armor... but there is a price to pay... for the atrox at breed cap there is no price to pay, so I support the idea of pushing breed caps with new QL200 items that are "more fit" for certain proffesion, but not only limitted to those proffesions.

I can tell you that at Level 160 or so you hit your breed caps, so lots of peopel could still easily use the new items.

[___________Admirable]

Originally posted by Odian102
CZ has already stated that FUNCOM is not going to alter the breeds ability caps. He did state that in 14.6, there might be atrox only armor. So, your point to very good, but not going to happen in the near future.

So, if Funcom has decided to make atrox only armor to off-set the breed disadvantage, then make the armor useful. that was the point of this post. Debating about how funcom should fix it is pointless. But debating about the armor is relevant.

All im saying is if the armor is not better then MK2. Then whats the point. NO one will wear it.

There is a difference between useful and unbalancing....

Too make an atrox only armor that is BETTER than MKII and available in fair supply is unfair, because anyone who wants MKII has to spend days upon days camping for the armor to get a set... if you want a better armor than that, then i hate to say it, but I hope that the new armor would be more rare than the armor that it is better than. I know 100's of people that would settle for marginally close to MKII armor, if it meant they didn't have to kill smugglers for 2-3 weeks to get it... why do you think Carbonum is so popular now? Marginally close (not as good), but close enough that people don't want to waste their in game time.

[Bionitrous]

That's one of the biggest problems right now. People hit breed caps at 160 and then everyone is the same for 40 levels. Hell, I hit my Int/Psy/Sense caps in the 130's.

As an Atrox, I have no problem if they increase the NanoMage Int Cap to 580 and put armor out there that requires 600 or so Int to equip. That's what a game with breeds and professions is supposed to be all about.

Hell, I'm over-equipped in my lvl 200 Physical Protection Skinchip if I don't keep Odin's running.

The new generation of children simply can't accept that they have any shortcomings and can't have it all. And yeah, we saw the Fixers who thought the original Dillon armor was 'theirs' piss and moan and groan that an Opifex couldn't wear qlvl200.

That was a good example of Atrox-only armor. And see how they cried.

[odian102]

like I said, breed caps only play are real roll in the game at high lvls. So , if it isnt better then mk2, then no one will wear it.

So, if you want to make it hard to get ( like mk2). That would be ok as while.

Most players at high lvls spend a lot of time twiking thier characters. So it really doesnt make a difference to me.

[BigBubba]

They should of added 208 points to Atrox Str Sta and Agl since other breeds have up to 208 more in there main abilitys. As for why you hate beam as you make a char from the very begining they told us Artox was able to use weapons that others could not. The only problem is that its only a beam..If you dont believe me make a atrox and lisen to what it says. Its been a long time since I made another atrox but im sure it still says the same thing.
As for atrox only armor I think its a great Idea unless it sucks...Im sure it will...Im sick of Nano breed being able to equip the same armor as us...that is so Lame nano breed should have had 400 str sta and agl to atrox 400 intel sence and psy...If all the breeds had the same total in skill points that would make a game balanced but its not Atrox has 208 less in the end...Funcom should of had those caps in the manual or on there web sight from the very begining....Hell I may of made a optifex enforcer they are better then a Atrox in the end. Both can use the Dragons sword...Or a Optifex Soldier yet again a better then Atrox... In fact Atrox suck to Optifex in any profession even the ones they where met for. Am I the only one that can see how lame it is.



Eunucha 188

[________Garzu-perman]

Anyway, we dont want atrox only armor to balance the atrox breed vs solitus....


WE want a boost that sticks to the breed, not to some stupid items. I mean that a totally naked unequipped atrox should have the boost, not some items.


The atrox gets 4 HPs pr point of Body dev and 2 Nano pr point of nano pool. Solitus gets same HPs as atrox but gets 4 nano pr point of nano pool.

I see a great unbalance here, Atrox should get 5-6 HPs pr point of body dev.

Atrox should be clearly the best tanking breed in the game, thats why you made us.

Ok 1 suggestion is to increase our HPs pr point of body dev.

Perhaps some built in AC? AC that increases together with lvls. 10 AC pr lvl perhaps?


Anyway, it doesnt matter to me as long as it is good, and that it is built into the breed, not some item.

[cold]

I'm more concerned about its looks than its performance. Wanna bet atroxes get another version of the butt-ugly graft armor ?

[cold]

And it doesn't look like a big problem to me if it isn't as good as Corona MKII..... You still have 150 levels to wear it then

[BigBubba]

Admirable your right we dont need new stuff we need to take 208 points out of your breeds end caps to make it fair. I bet that you wouldnt like that though would ya. Ya its easy for all you come in the fourms and say what ever you want. Your breed has up to 208 more then atrox in there main abilitys. Funcom said they wont touch breed caps but they will look into adding atrox only armor...I would guess that it will be totally uselless if it even makes it into the game anyway. No dont give me crap raise my Str Sta and Agi 208 points or lower other breeds str sta and Agi 208 points. Make it so that if you add all the breeds main ablilitys up they equal the same number. All I am asking is for a ballaced game.

[__________Tjocksmock]

Must agree here, making items to compensate for a design flaw is stupid... Unless the item is free for everyone that needs it...
All it leads to is another item that you have to have to be as good as you should be but you have to pay huge sums to get it since every Atrox on rubi ka needs it. And if its a suit of armor then its 7 items, and following FC standard I bet its gonna be boss loot to.

Increasing Atrox hp/body dev. is something that must be done, And nano breed nano/nano pool is also to low compared to Solitus from what I know (dont have any numbers though).

I bet all Atroxes would like to get thoose ~200 ability points in Str/Stam, but looking at the ability caps it should be put in Int/Sen/Psy, but as atrox... I dont whant to be smart, I whant to be strong and hard.

One idea would be to allow Atroxes to raise Str/Stam 6 points/lvl or lower the IP cost for those.

A Atrox only armor to compensate for the flaws in the breed would have to at lvl 200 ad ~800 or so HP (from what I heard) and about ~180 Ability points, or have 100pts lower Str/Stam req compared to Elite (for example) but with the same AC.

I like the idea of a BIG HP delta (regen?) buff on the armor, that would on the other hand make the Atrox/fixer combo quite interesting... :o)

[Morthoseth]

Originally posted by Odian102
Cz,

Like I stated before, the breed cap disadvantage only really shows up on high lvl players. So, If its not better then MK2. Why would atrox breeds switch to it? They won't!

See, what's the point in bring in new atrox armor if mk2 is better then it.

If all breeds can wear mk2 and its the best armor, then why switch to a breed specific armor that is suppost to make up for that breeds disadvantaged ability caps.

Oh, I should know. Im a trader, I can raise my armor class up 2k points and I see very little difference when my armor class is increased 2k points. So, even if you made the atrox armor 2k higher in ac over anyother armor in the game. I would not switch from my mk2, because I have experienced the reality of what 2k increase in armor class can do ( which is very little).

Armor is all about special abilities, not so much in general AC.

I'm sorry, but it makes little sense. Not all atroxes are equal. I've
seen traders, soldiers, enforcers, ma's, adventurers, even agents.

Why should a BREED have the best armor in game? They should
not, and because not every atrox is a certain profession, your
idea of special abilities isn't likely. If you WANT anything, try and
ask for atrox only items that raise nano skills, or something...

THAT is more realistic. Atroxes don't hurt in AC's, and a single
breed should not be superior in that department. It's not balancing.

Atroxes need a high end solution to HP's, over solitus' I agree.
But to say atroxes need a LOT more HP? Hell no, they don't, but
an advantage in that department over soli's is needed.

In regards to 6 dev increase per lv, that's profession specific.
So, there's no way that will happen or everyone will be atrox,
no matter what profession they are. Not gonna happen.

People need a reason to play atroxes, not huge advantages over
other breeds. Each breed has strength and weaknesses.

More profession specific items is about all you can hope for. Not
armor, though, as any atrox no matter what prof could use it, and
that's unbalancing. Imagine an atrox doc/mp with huge ac's, and
massive HP's as you preposed. I think it'd be highly unbalancing.

An increase in HP per level is logical.
Now, Int/Psy.. takes 12 points of base stat to raise a nano skill
by 2 points. Atroxes have 80 less int capped, but really that only
results in a loss in 14 skill or so, when maxed. I don't get it...

It's expensive to raise, but troxes' aren't suffering. Those few
points of skill aren't even worth the IP. With the higher STR/STAM
you naturally have better AC's, if you go with STR/STAM armor.

A best, you need:

a)Higher HP caps than what you have. And..
b)Better STR/STAM armor selection. Atroxes have higher caps
in those stats, so naturally, you'll be in higher QL's.

[Morthoseth]

What I'm saying is:

The 80 lower INT cap doesn't result in very much less skill. Plain
and simple. Cast INT Boost.. you get a 2pt increase. 12 base skill
=2 nano skill. 80 less cap = 14 less skill, or less...

It's not as bad as you make it sound.