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Thread: I miss the animated series!

  1. #1

    I miss the animated series!

    Why have we not seen any new chapters? I was really into it and suddenly nothing! Whats the deal?

  2. #2

  3. #3
    With new developements in the works to move a lot of the storyline structure in-game, it's unlikely that we'll see very many--if any at all--continuations of the animated series.
    --The connections that enable us to learn are infinitely more important than our state of knowing.

  4. #4
    I was able to visit the Funcom booth at the E3 this year and ask them about the animated series. The gist of the answer was that the animated series took up too much resources and did not meet the expected number of viewers. So they decided to free up those resources that more players will be able to enjoy.

    So no more animated series.

    BTW: Shadowlands will rock
    Charles 'Kithrak' Houston - Equipment
    Administrator, Omni-Admin
    Bringing the politics of Rubi-Ka to life!

    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster....when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..." -Friedrich Nietzsche-

    "By denying support to the possibility of peace, the Council of Truth is guranteeing an outcome of war."-Administrator Houston-

  5. #5
    Originally posted by Charles
    I was able to visit the Funcom booth at the E3 this year and ask them about the animated series. The gist of the answer was that the animated series took up too much resources and did not meet the expected number of viewers. So they decided to free up those resources that more players will be able to enjoy.

    So no more animated series.
    We actually had quite a lot of viewers, so that wasn't the biggest problem. Our main problem was that we had to produce 10-15 minute episodes every two weeks, and that was waaay beyond our limited means and capabilities. The animation-team almost killed themselves getting the first four episodes out on time. I'm talking 16-18 hour days, plus weekends. It would have been impossible to continue in that manner for any length of time, unfortunately. I would've loved to keep working on it.

    The reason we started producing the series in the first place was to start the story off with a bang, to give it momentum. In that way, it was as much an experiment as anything else. It wasn't entirely successful: we didn't receive a whole lot of positive feedback while it was running. But in retrospect it appears that a lot of people miss it. Which is good, because that means we did *something* right.

    Will it ever return? Not in that form, certainly, but we might do a "one-off" at some point in the future, to pick up the loose threads.

    -Ragnar

  6. #6
    The animated series was great.. even though I wasn't playing the game at that time, when they first were out and I downloaded them. But, well, I've had to recently work using 3DS Max and Blender, and... hell, animating something this way takes a hell of a time! I acknowledge this!

    Maybe every two weeks was just too short a timing, but it's in experimenting that you can find that it is...

    I'm sure it could be interesting, also, to do it again, not as animated series, but, say, as an online comics?...
    Jen Markarian - Put the weirdness back in Omni-Mining
    Updating my stories -- 19/03/08. Going slowly, but certainly
    Anarchy Reloaded - AO webcomics for the sake of being silly

    I never want to lose what I have finally found
    There's a requiem
    A new congregation
    And it's telling me: go forward and walk
    Under a brighter sky
    -- Delerium, Euphoria --

  7. #7
    You have to do something for those who don't feel that the Story is some guild attacking an outpost or a leet parade or swim contest.

    You just left Ross and Radiman flat. You left that Radiman looking thing with the tubes in his neck flat.

    Everything ended. In-game and out. Nothing is happening. Nothing.

    As suggested, even a storyboard would be fine. People want to know what's going on at the top.

    I would subscribe to a comic book that came in the mail once a month. At least until SW:G comes out and probably after that just to see what's going on on Rubi'Ka.

    The little vignette with the Cyborg kid and his father was nice. But, it just ended. Nothing became of it.

    Nothing is happening dynamically. And talking to NPC's who are going to tell me the same thing everytime I talk to them is no sort of Story. Backstory, maybe. Story, no.

    As far as backstory, when are we going to get the description of the next Clan after Terra Firma and the next Omni department after Omni-Trans (as I recall)?

    Why has absolutely nothing happened at the Story site except for some player submissions of guild events?

  8. #8

    Unhappy Ragnar... you're underestimating the negative effect...

    Ragnar,

    I think you've massively underestimated how important the animated episodes were to the RPing community, especially to the core elements of us.

    To people who play the game as a level mill, it probably isn't so much of a loss... I mean the other level mill type MMORPGs (i.e. all of them) don't even pretend to have an evolving storyline.

    However, you set your stall out that AO is different from the rest because of your evolving storyline. By leaving storyline progression to in-game only mechanics... you're cutting many people out of seeing & hence feeling the story is even moving.

    I completely appreciate the episodes must have chewed up a mountain of resources, and from my own experience I appreciate laying staff off and reducing headcount & reassigning current staff to tighten the budget up is required to even stay in business, but the storyline evolvement via the animated episodes is core to AO surviving period. Because it keeps your core customers (i.e. the non-level mill type people) aware that the story is moving along, and hence keep us playing and hence keep us paying.

    I don't want to be negative, but we (i.e. you) lost a lot of good RP / story / event players over the storyline freeze, and the types of players replacing them are increasingly less RP & story interested, and hence are less likely to be longer-term players / customers.

    In addition, whilst we're on that subject, fewer people are joining AO because of the well publicised failing (or read that as temporarily stalled) storyline. Please don't spin us the line that our player base is stable or growing because it most definitely is not. ALL of the places in-game that were once teaming with life are now barren and empty bar a few hardy souls.

    Keredwyn's idea for the online comic is an excellent one, and has to be cheap and relatively easy to do?

    Personally, I think you perhaps bring back the animated episodes, but drop it from two weekly updates to monthly updates? Hell... even 6 weeks! It'd be better than the current... nothing.

    Please?

    Pretty please with sugar on? Pretty please with sugar and a cherry on top?


    Garret "Bonefish" Silvestrini
    Director - SPARTA
    Director of Operations, OTSEC

    Founding Member of the Omni-Tek Security Council

    garret.silvestrini@ot-sparta.org
    www.ot-sparta.org

  9. #9

    WOW!!!

    I just was curious......

    I can accpet that it takes ALOT of man power to make those little cartoons. Just wanted you guys at development to know that I loved em...............

    I too would buy a monthly AO comic book. I for one love AO and I am not leaving.....

    Ragnar sir.....(BTW your name rulz)......thank you for responding. I am glad to know that my thoughts are seen by the high ups....

  10. #10
    Bonefish -

    I bet a comics would be cheaper to do, and it doesn't even need to be a full-colored one (though I admit it'd be better). Depending on the method(s) used for drawing, a team of 2-3 people - with a well-prepared storyboard, this is the most important - could easily produce 20-30 pages a week, or even more. I myself draw quite quickly, so I may be mistaken on the point, but in any case, I guess the team involved on the vids was far more than just 2 people...

    heck, if I hadn't already a full-time job and studies to follow for one more year, I'd have taken the job without any problems...
    Jen Markarian - Put the weirdness back in Omni-Mining
    Updating my stories -- 19/03/08. Going slowly, but certainly
    Anarchy Reloaded - AO webcomics for the sake of being silly

    I never want to lose what I have finally found
    There's a requiem
    A new congregation
    And it's telling me: go forward and walk
    Under a brighter sky
    -- Delerium, Euphoria --

  11. #11
    Ragnar

    I think you missed the point of people pointing out the problem with the videos. People did enjoy them, but at what cost spending 2 weeks working on a video lasting 10 minutes to tell the story was seen at the expense of losing stuff in game.

    I enjoyed the videos but what not said to see them go, I as did many others expect the story to come in game. Sadly this never really happened in fact quite the opposite the end of the videos saw an end to the story.

    People have linked these two facts together the call for the videos to be returned is seen as a request for some part of the story be reformed.

  12. #12

    One of those idea things

    Ragnar or whomever at FC:

    As an idea to keep the animated story going, how about doing in-engine renders and then applying some facial animation/polish?

    Rather than pre-rendering the whole thing with the (incredible looking) meshes and scenes, run a 'local' AO dev. server, have a few staffmembers play Ross and Radiman and Eleena and actually have them running around 'in game' and pipe the output to an uncompressed .avi (each frame fully rendered).

    Then have an artist do the necessary facial animations so you get the expressions and lip movements, but keep it to the 'level' of texture changes on the face rather than fully rendered 3D.

    The big con:

    * It won't look nearly as incredible. The character models, rather than being exquisitely realised 3d models, will be AO characters in the AO world with AO-quality graphics. Of course, AO-quality graphics is very good! Just not up to the par of Maya/Max rendered scenes.

    * Actors are limited to doing things possible in the AO engine. Lying under a truck making repairs or kicking one enemy while shotgunning another isn't really possible.

    The pros:

    * MUCH faster to go from script to pre-edit footage. It does require having a bunch of people 'act' out the scenes if you want to avoid prescripting the whole affair (which could take a bit of time)

    * Considerably less art resource requirement. You could probably do this with an artist, a writer, a few actors and about 5 hours rather than a FMV team and 50 hours.

    While this wouldn't be the same as the full-on animated series, it'd provide some out-of-game story context (which, as you said, you got partly right) without the huge drain on dev. resources.

    To see what you can achieve with this level of animation, check out Vagrant Story on the PlayStation (Squaresoft, 2000). They go one step furthur by doing custom animations for their cutscenes, but then they only had to do it once rather than once a week.
    The facial expressions in particular work very well, and are simply texture changes to the fixed face model.

    Just an idea...
    Crazynotion - Atrox Bureaucrat, RK1

    Formerly posted as Mechanita

  13. #13
    Bionitrous,

    Good post! I'll try to address a few of your points:

    Originally posted by Bionitrous
    You have to do something for those who don't feel that the Story is some guild attacking an outpost or a leet parade or swim contest.

    You just left Ross and Radiman flat. You left that Radiman looking thing with the tubes in his neck flat.
    Yep. That's not cool.

    During the story's first three months - quite productive ones, in retrospect - the story consisted of three intertwining branches:

    1) The four-year story arc
    2) The personal stories of individual NPCs
    3) The player-shaped stories

    Number (1) is the Big Story, the one that shaped - still shapes, because we have in no way abandoned it! - the content that's added to the game (like the upcoming expansion pack and the new, in-game NPCs), and which guides most of our decisions in regards to the game from a top-down point-of-view - in other words, our content strategy. This is also where the novel, "Prophet Without Honour", fits in.

    Number (2) is where the animated series entered the picture. This was a glimpse "behind the scenes" on Rubi-Ka; a way to get into the minds of Philip Ross and Henry Radiman, and to let representatives on all three sides - Omni-Tek, clan, and neutral - provide an emotional and personal context for both (1) and (3). It also gave us the ability to tell the Big Story to all players, regardless of how much (or how little) time they spent playing the game.

    The lives of these animated characters were influenced by (primarily) the story arc, but also, to some degree, the participation of the players. At least, that was the long-term intention. By episode four - which opened in December - the correlation between what you saw in the episode and what you encountered in the game had improved massively. Case in point, the building that was blown up by the Dust Brigade, and Mack's bar. I think this link was very unique and exciting, but ultimately quite unfeasible. Having to schedule patches and animated episodes in parallel with each other complicated things no end, especially when there were lots of bugs that needed fixin' in a timely manner.

    For reasons mentioned above, we had to cancel the animated series, and redistribute our resources. This meant that we had to (temporarily or completely) abandon Eleena and Joshua, and some of the storylines associated with those characters. However, the stories involving the major NPCs - Radiman and Ross - have not been abandoned. They're dormant, as we figure out a way to "tell" them - this includes the clone-lab story you refer to. Keep in mind that several of these stories trickled down to (3) - to events - where players were able to interact with, and affect, what happened. And the central plot of the four episodes, the emergence of the Dust Brigade, did carry on past its cancellation - the Brigade became very active early this year, although not much has been heard from them since.

    Everything ended. In-game and out. Nothing is happening. Nothing.
    Yeah, that's bad. There are events, and the story (though not the Big Story (1), nor the personal stories (2)) still continues...to some degree. But not enough. Not nearly enough.

    As suggested, even a storyboard would be fine. People want to know what's going on at the top.

    I would subscribe to a comic book that came in the mail once a month. At least until SW:G comes out and probably after that just to see what's going on on Rubi'Ka.
    I'd love that. A comic book or something similar, I mean. I'll bring it up and hear what people think.

    The little vignette with the Cyborg kid and his father was nice. But, it just ended. Nothing became of it.
    Again, I agree. We had a nice start on several different levels, but no continuation.

    Nothing is happening dynamically. And talking to NPC's who are going to tell me the same thing everytime I talk to them is no sort of Story. Backstory, maybe. Story, no.
    Yes and no. It depends on how often the NPCs are updated, and how we handle them. There will be a lot of backstory - because so many people have asked for that - but the NPCs will also talk about the present, and drop hints about the future. To what degree they will be dynamic, we'll have to see. As much as possible.

    As far as backstory, when are we going to get the description of the next Clan after Terra Firma and the next Omni department after Omni-Trans (as I recall)?
    Ah. Yes. Another loose thread left hanging. This is a worn-out cliché, but...we're working on it!

    Why has absolutely nothing happened at the Story site except for some player submissions of guild events?
    There have been things happening, and the events-team has provided content for the story site, but there's not been enough. The good thing is that we're sitting down today to talk about all of this, and I'll keep you updated on what's happening.

    Thanks,
    Ragnar

  14. #14

    Re: Ragnar... you're underestimating the negative effect...

    Originally posted by Bonefish
    [FONT=arial]Ragnar,

    I think you've massively underestimated how important the animated episodes were to the RPing community, especially to the core elements of us.
    I totally get how important the episodes were to the role-players out there, because I'm just like you guys. I'm not too fond of the level treadmill or the competitive aspects of an MMOG. I much prefer to act out the life of my character in an imaginative world, and I know that the animated series helped make Rubi-Ka real to a lot of role-players.

    Personally, I think you perhaps bring back the animated episodes, but drop it from two weekly updates to monthly updates? Hell... even 6 weeks! It'd be better than the current... nothing.
    Unfortunately, the animated series will not continue. We've talked about doing a stand-alone episode at one point, but it's a question of resources, and how we want to allocate them.

    -Ragnar

  15. #15
    Originally posted by Kirrana
    Ragnar

    I think you missed the point of people pointing out the problem with the videos. People did enjoy them, but at what cost spending 2 weeks working on a video lasting 10 minutes to tell the story was seen at the expense of losing stuff in game.

    I enjoyed the videos but what not said to see them go, I as did many others expect the story to come in game. Sadly this never really happened in fact quite the opposite the end of the videos saw an end to the story.

    People have linked these two facts together the call for the videos to be returned is seen as a request for some part of the story be reformed.
    You're probably correct, although I also think that a large number of players enjoyed the regular insight into the lives of Ross, Radiman, Eleena, and Joshua.

    The animated series was actually produced by the Midgard-team, myself included, after that project was put on hold. In other words, between October and December, the series didn't take any resources away from the AO live team.

    -Ragnar

  16. #16

    Re: One of those idea things

    Originally posted by Mechanita
    Ragnar or whomever at FC:

    As an idea to keep the animated story going, how about doing in-engine renders and then applying some facial animation/polish?

    Just an idea...
    ...and a very good one, too. As a matter of fact, in-game cinematics were part of AO's original design. Gaute's vision was always to have these "personal stories" - Eleena Oak, Joshua Kahn, Ross and Radiman - as an integral part of the game. Our decision to produce pre-rendered episodes was prompted by our inability to do in-game cinematics, and the engine's lack of support for facial expressions and lip-synch.

    It's still a good idea, however.

    -Ragnar

  17. #17

    Lightbulb Hey Raggy!

    Glad to see your posting, Ragnar. I appriciate that you actually take time to look at these forums. It means alot to me.

    And I'm very glad to see that your actually sitting down to talk about this today. I really hope that you see the problem, and acknowledge the competition... Cause with this rate, your gonna loose customers, rather than gain so many. I can say with my hand on my heart that the people in AO right now, is either people staying there because of the people they know trough the game, or they are new arrivals. Either people have left because the lack of story/events/similar, or they have left cause of the massive bugs that excisted some months ago (I still see people leaving the game).

    We do have the "greenies", but the only problem with them (some of them atleast) is that they are players/ARKs, doing this on their spare time. And also... seeing that some players "work" for some greenies, having them as their commanders or what not. Or that some people have some greenies as the arch-enemies (thank you, I have one: Insomnias Shades, your life will end soon ). But not even these can tell us much about what is happening between the clans and Omni-Tek.

    We need to know what is happening. Are we at war? Are we at peace? To use a cool quote from "Three Kings": "Are we shooting?" This is things that every role-player wanna know. It's annoying not to know.


    Ideas:
    - If the war aspect is your minds, do me one favor: More low suppresion gas areas, decrease it some places...that seems the only way to introduce the conflict...with that change you might have to change the 75-200 range, or it's gonna be really scary, not that I mind :=)
    - Please...I beg you. REMOVE the names from guilds that use Omni-Tek "storynames" on their guildname. That's just not good for role-playing. We want to see the "greenies" and Guards and **** with that. Not player-guilds. This IS A MUST. It's very big isssue, at least for me. I feel I can't role-play the right way with that hanging over me.
    - Introduce more events. Introduce more events to reduce the massive amounts of people that pop at once a yell for an event come. Just a question, was you in Omni-1 Entertainment, near the platform that time Ross's "duplicate" was killed? LAG. Introduce more events. A MUST.

    Hmmz. I know there is more, but I'll probably remember it soon, take this for now. And read. I expect a reply, Ragnar.

    After looking around on recent posts/threads I found out that you should read this too: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=38869
    Last edited by Lt. Equimon; Jul 25th, 2002 at 14:05:11.
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  18. #18
    Hi and thanks for the update Ragnar.

    This continuing trend of keeping us, the players, informed on developments is a huge breakthrough for Funcom, keep up the good work. Right, now on to the nitty gritty regarding the future of the storyline.

    My one query with what has been said so far is the fact that nothing has been mentioned about the fabled feature of players being able to change the future of the story. There has been lots of talk about episodes, comic strips, talking NPCs, but most of these fall neatly into the static back story category.

    There have been almost zero parts of the storyline so far that have been changed by a player, exceptions made maybe for the Aberic assasination and the Tir moat cleaning, and people have started wondering if this feature of the game has been abandoned for now. Is an east assumption to make seeing as it's proving hard enough to tell a predetermined story.

    If this feature is no longer planned, then I think it's a big issue for the community to consider. Many players joined Anarchy Online because of this feature, the ability for a person or a group of people to change the storyline for everyone is a very exciting feature and one of the original main selling points for the game.

    A lot of us hope that this part of the game's future hasn't been abandoned, but then again, if it has, I think we deserve to know. A bit of cause and effect would do us all a lot of good and would make the most of the existing and exceedingly good backstory.
    Last edited by Solarax; Jul 25th, 2002 at 14:16:23.
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  19. #19
    It was never, ever said that players could change the storyline. It was stated that we could be a part of it. It was said we could 'affect' the storyline. We can be involved with it. etc., etc.

    If you consider getting the water in Tir cleaned up part of the storyline (heh), then sure, there's some direct impact.

    I, and the majority of players don't consider the trial of Aberic to be a part of the Storyline (capital 'S') in any fashion. Just a bit of good natured role-playing.

    When they put in the ability to capture outposts, if you are going to get all excited to see a post on the story site about some jackass uber-guild capturing Meetmedere, then good for you. That's 'involvement'. Not Story for the rest of us.

    My whole guild has now read Prophet (thanks to the .pdf on the Special Edition CD). There's the Story. There's the people we want to see moving and shaking things. People we can respect or despise. Not the pissants who are currently squabbling over the Tarasque loot and certainly not some clique of RP'ers who have decided they's like to usurp control of controlling history.

    When FunCom puts the future of the planet into the hands of every single player who pays his money, then I'll relax the position. Star Wars: Galaxies does this to a degree. The actions of every single player affect the political climate of a server. In AO you either need to have a big mouth, good web page skills, a bunch of loot-hungry hangers-on, or other attention-grabbing facilities in order to be comfortable with the thought that you might actually 'matter'. Guess, what? You don't. You never will.

    I'd guess AO has between 5 and 10 thousand active players. Do you really wonder why FunCom pulled the plug on the 'greenies' who were expending capital to entertain a couple dozen people? You got about 80 people acting like jackasses in Camelot, should we put them in charge of the future of the planet (and even more importantly The Story)? That's what the fatal flaw in Snarf and Capt FallOut's thinking was. They thought the game company and the entire populace of the planet should accept that their actions mattered more than a rat's turd to everybody else who paid to play the game and follow the Story. We didnt' care.

    The Story will never get any respect from the general populace until FunCom starts telling it. Until a plot twist affects every single player in the game (as did the 'amnesty') people just don't care what some player in some other time zone in some other age bracket, demographic, personal social situation, are doing.

    When some 'greenie' pulls aside 20 people and provides a nice RP 'event' for them, do you think it makes the rest of us enjoy the game more? No. It makes us pissed off and wonder if those guys somehow paid more money each month than we did.

    It's got to be on a large scale. The story has to be above us and affect the world as a whole. This way we can all talk to each other about common issues. If the skies turned purple for some reason, we would all be asking each other 'why?' That is fair. We would all be wondering what the deal was and what the ramifications were. Remember the 'smoke trails' in the sky that people were seeing at one point in the game? People still ask if anything became of them. I still think it was a bug (lost opportunity for the Story people), but, hey.

    The one game mechanic they refuse to tap into that SW:G is definately going to use is the mission terminal. From static dungeon quests, to unique MOB opportunities, to encounters with 'greenies', this was the one fair way to allow interaction.

    Just like Charlie got his golden wrapper and was invited to visit the Wonka factory, it is only right and equitable that a random number generator decide where and in what form your next 'mission' is going to take place.

    The day I see any small group attempt to usurp control of what is rightly the property of every paying player is the day I start going off on another tirade about the illegitemacy of any pissant player from Boise attempting to tell the general public how he thinks Ragnar's story should move.

    There has been so much fine role playing going on in the absence of any real Story progression. Luckily most of it lately has not been of the ilk that earlier attempts were in trying to change the script versus fleshing out the milieu.

    Take over an outpost, fine. Try to take over the Story and we got problems.

  20. #20

    My thoughts...

    Ragnar, I certainly appreciate you posting here.

    I for one understand the effort in manpower required to create a quality animation, and am glad that they will not continue. Not that I did not enjoy them. I just don't think its the best use of resources.

    My feeling is that you should create the story through a combination of:
    - Meaningful, fun events in game.
    - Web site press releases that summarize what happened in order to advance the story.
    - In game changes to show that Rubi-Ka does change to reflect the ongoing storyline.

    With regard to ingame events, I can tell you that most of the early events I was involved in rated very low on the fun-o-meter. Please realize that events should advance the story AND provide enjoyment for participants. Being called to the west gate of Tir with 100 other clanners and waiting around for hours not knowing what is happening or if we are going into battle, then being teleported to Mort and being forced to listen to a GM drone on in a non-interactive fashion is not fun for me (actual event). There should also be an attempt to contact roleplaying guilds and interweave their events into the storyline, if possible.

    The importance of in game changes that reflect changes in the story can not be understated. If they are the result of player actions during official events, even better. Examples of in game changes would be creation/destruction of outposts, creation of new mobs, changes in suppression gas, creation of temporary NPCs that support the storyline.

    Lastly, I wanted to say to you that there are players and guilds that have strived to make up for the lack of storyline through the creation of their own stories and events. These people are very creative and hardworking, but there are limitations to the game world that makes their task difficult, and they have not been getting any support from Funcom. I think it is time to acknowledge the work of these guilds that brings so much color and flavor to the world of Rubi-Ka through the improvement of game features that supports their efforts. There has been a bias towards profession-based orientation in recent patches. The creation of the "professionals" was a slap in the face for entertainment and roleplaying guilds who deserve a seat at the table. Please stop neglecting these individuals and their concerns. While you are sleeping, they are writing new stories and events that engage and delight those who have given up on Funcoms story.

    Thanks for reading this post.
    - Szentasha
    Leader of Unity of the Rose

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