Intrigue againts Elite Operations

[Howky]

Recently rumors conserning "Elite Operations war declarations on all Clans", was spread by one Clan organisation which had separate war againts Elite Opreations. Theyr attacks where repeled one after another and they started to intrigue to get more Clan organisations to back up theyr attacks and also damage some of our most devoted defenders reputation, by spreading untruthfully rumors of theyr acts and sayings.

The Clan Organisation, started to spreading the rumors in all Clan cityes and Shadow Land, before contacting even one of Elite Operation officer, nor me, The President. Which just point out theyr real intentions just to raise hate with Clans towards Elite Operations.

I hope this will clear all the missunderstanding conserning the issue.

[Dabblez]

The Clans are war with EO? >>Somethings never change! <<

Savoy

[Howky]

The Clans are war with EO? >>Somethings never change! <<

Savoy

So true...

[Morthoseth]

Sorry, but EO has gone out of line without apology before. I know this, personally.


I can only speak of mine. My ex-clan, OpCentre, had a lowbie tower area in VW,
which we had since NW was released. We *never* attacked neutrals, as it was
against Org Policy and was strictly enforced by leadership. One day, we were
attacked by EO, with no one on with an alt that could defend. Needless to say it
soon fell. The *pathetic* excuse given to me by an EO member, whose name I
forget, was that it was a neutral area and clans had no right to be there to begin
with. After weakly addressing my point, suddenly this member's reasoning was
that clans were attacking neutrals, and that we were a threat to security in the area?

Like hell. We co-existed for years in VW, respecting a neutral way of life the whole
time, and what do we get? EO destroying the towers and letting Omni take over
our area? For what... mere paranoia? I think not, it's blatantly aggressive
behavior, and I've had enough of it. We were attacked for no reason, when we
and no one in relation to our org had ever done so to a neutral, moreover EO.

You can spill lies all you want, but your activity speaks for itself. We were
"evicted" from neutral VW without reason, or diplomatic opportunity; If this is the
standard, then neutral CTS should be removed/destroyed from Clan territory.

Period.

In my eyes, your refusal of any accountability whatsoever is an unwavering sign of
guilt, and I will NOT soon forget it. You're quickly losing respect from your clan
allies, myself included (whereas I have none, atm.), and if you continue to conduct
yourselves in this matter with impunity, it'll soon be more than respect that you lose.

We were attacked without provocation, or even an apology. You can dumb your
actions as a whole down, because I know first hand what your org has done. My
former clan lost land and lives, and all for what? Nothing! I still support the
neutral's rights, but EO has waived those rights with their past actions.

You can lie all you want, deny all you want, but I know the truth because I've
seen it with my own eyes. Your Org's innocence propaganda has phail'd. Period.

I know the truth.. you're unremorseful bastards, plain and simple; until I'm shown otherwise.

[Dmom]

my... my .... someone's panties are in a wad!!


Such language!

Have a good day.

[Morthoseth]

Way to NOT address the issue, or accept any accountability of your own. Either you
skipped everything but the last sentence, or don't have a reply in defense. I'm willing
to bet you wouldn't have even said a single thing, if not for the last sentence,
because you've got no grounds for defending your actions against OC a few months back.

If anything, your blatantly evasive statement did nothing but justify my claims that
you *are* truly unremorseful, and have no explanation or reasoning (aside from
obvious aggressive tendencies) for your attack on Opcentre's towers in VW.

I'd be ashamed to have someone so incompetent as my general. I bring up a serious
issue and you lackadaisically reply rubbage, avoiding the issue completely. Kudos!


Have a nice day yourself... "General".

[Dmom]

hmmmm lets see....

You want me to adress a situation I had no knowledge of, you yourself said you dont remember the name of the person who attacked the base.

When did this attack occur? If your past org was not agressive to neutrals why didn't you or the org make an attempt to contact an officer of EO and demand return or payment for the base?

It is EO's policy to defend any neutural base being attacked and help in reclaiming any neutral base that was taken. If that policy wasnt followed I will gladly discipline any EO member for breaking that policy.

Sir, I request you refrain from calling me names I am a lady and conduct myself as such.

[Zemkarik]

Morthoseth I understand you are a clan member and I can not feel overly sorry about your loss of land. On the other hand I do know that attack of land does not need to be started by an org leader. This being the case if your land is attacked, in a manner that you feel unprovoked you should first check who started the war with you and their rank, you then should contact the org leader dirrectly and inform them of this event.

If on the other hand this is indeed what you have done, then I can understand your frustration.

--signed--
Delzbin

[Morthoseth]

hmmmm lets see....

You want me to adress a situation I had no knowledge of, you yourself said you dont remember the name of the person who attacked the base.

When did this attack occur? If your past org was not agressive to neutrals why didn't you or the org make an attempt to contact an officer of EO and demand return or payment for the base?

It is EO's policy to defend any neutural base being attacked and help in reclaiming any neutral base that was taken. If that policy wasnt followed I will gladly discipline any EO member for breaking that policy.

Sir, I request you refrain from calling me names I am a lady and conduct myself as such.

This was, most likely, Jan. of this year. Not long after I took a break, so forgive me
if my memory is.. fuzzy. The person I sought out wasn't a mere applicant or
member, but I cannot claim that they were your rank or higher. As stated, it has
been some time. The individual offered to let us reclaim the land as no CT was
placed, but when I arrived, Omni CTs were already in place, indicating that there
was either a collaboration, or Omni's ninja'd the plot, taking it for themselves.

Note: The person I talked to was not the attacker, so it should have been
reported, to begin with, regardless of rank, if discipline is indeed paramount in EO.
If not mistaken, it was a unit leader, not just the standard member. Who? Forget.

As for monetary gains, I could care less. They were worth mere pocket change,
many of which I funded myself, as a courtesy to members. However, it is the
event, itself, what infuriates me - losing land control areas is an expected, albiet
unfortunate event, but being attacked by a neutral org is simmply inappropriate.

We attacked no Neut base, nor was it a taken base, as it was (although for our
lowbies) ours since release. I informed the individual that it was taken by Omni,
but no reparations were offered - all I recieved was extreme regret. That's it.



But I think you misunderstand my point;

We *were* attacked by EO. We did *not* provoke it. To say that EO has never
attacked an org with provokation is a lie, even if it is an old and buried issue. My
primary reason for even posting was because the claims of the topic creator and
what I've experienced conflict, and therefore raises a question of EO's integrity.

I've teamed with EO members, and even solo'd TIM for one, so he could get a
scope, once - before that event. It wouldn't stop me from help/teaming with a
member again, but I don't want to hear that EO doesn't attack without
provocation, or confirming sources - I can only conclude that it is untrue, based
solely on my experiences. But the true question is; If EO went into a state of war,
why didn't leadership notice? Why didn't the officer communicate the mistake to
leadership, or offer to connect me to an online leader, if available? But whatever.

What's done is done, and it was never my objective to cause grief, but raise a
valid concern based on actual events. It *did* happen, and I know it, because I
could only sit by and watch it happen, first hand - and because of that I hate to
see any claims of otherwise. While I can forgive, I refuse to forget what happened.

As long as you have a solid philosophy, so that we know what behavior to expect,
I wish you the best. If, as indicated, you have no intention of going on an
unprovoked offensive, then I applaud your dedication to being truly neutral. I'll be
keeping a close eye, as I'm interested to see future developments involving your org.

Zemkarik,
thanks for the advice. I expected the officer to notify leadership of higher rank,
per my request, but "none we online". Partially my own fault for not checking who
the higher ups were/if they were on. The Unit Lead offered to give the land back,
but it was taken - no offer for new towers. In the end, it wasn't a huge area, low
level, but it was the principal of the matter that angered me. I dropped the matter
per our leadership's request, as the land was becoming obsolete anyway, and
would have been donated to a needy upstart clan eventually, to begin with...

However, I would think such an org would communicate thing of this nature and
that leadership would not permit raids without consent, to begin with... sadly unture, I suppose..

[Agaille]

After having read Morthoseth's claims I have noticed the following:

- I still don't have a name of the supposedly attacker from Elite Operations.
- I don't have a timestamp of the supposedly attack on the base.
- I don't even have the coords on the tower base that was supposed to be formerly clan owned (does it exist at all?)
- No reference was given to a valid and trustworthy log-file.
- No names was given on the Omni that he also claims to have talked with.
- No reference what so ever was given to anything that could back up his story.

Ladies and gentlemen: Please observe a ranting Clanner caught red handed spreading false rumors about Elite Operations. As I have pointed out the difference between rant, rumors and hostile propaganda on one side and the simple truth on the other side is that truth has evidence, witnesses and log files to back it up!

A damn lie doesn't get to be called a truth if only it gets repeated over and over again, and amnesia has never been a valid excuse for not bringing the facts to the table.

Hardcore evidence talks and BS walks! (I'm not talking Broken Shores here)

Fact remains that Morthoseth can't come up with anything that can give him any credibility. The only thing he has produced so far is negative ranting, hostile rumor spreading and prejudice against EO beyond belief.

The mere fact that the Council of Truth denies to back up his story ought to speak for itself as well.

Howky initially started this thread with warning that hostile clan ranting was about and I must conclude that Morthoseth certainly proved his point!

[Redtricks]

The mere fact that the Council of Truth denies to back up his story ought to speak for itself as well.

I think you're trying to mess with big names here to get some credibility for what you're saying. Oh, and also pissing off a few clanners too, just because your newt pride and reputation is being questioned. What, can't you blokes take a little heat?

The Council of Truth meets once a month. In the past six months' sessions, nothing has been asked about this - and probably will not be asked either, considering the Council is more concerned with bigger issues than the Notum Wars.

My point: please don't try to mix the Council of Truth into this like that. Your beef is with this guy; I'd also appreciate it if you stopped whining in the vein of "all clanners spread filthly lies about EO!" and such. Heh. If a clan fights for notum, they fight for it at their own discretion. Same for you, or does the ICC (although you probably don't even claim any political relation to them) tell you what spots you can fight for and if you can fight at all?

But silly of me to expect anything else from money-grubbing newts looking for justifications...

Oh, and tell Succuba she can go suck on someone else's boot next time she sees me. I'm not a chewtoy.

[Morthoseth]

After having read Morthoseth's claims I have noticed the following:

- I still don't have a name of the supposedly attacker from Elite Operations.
- I don't have a timestamp of the supposedly attack on the base.
- I don't even have the coords on the tower base that was supposed to be formerly clan owned (does it exist at all?)
- No reference was given to a valid and trustworthy log-file.
- No names was given on the Omni that he also claims to have talked with.
- No reference what so ever was given to anything that could back up his story.

1)First of all, I took a 4 month break from RK adventuring, as stated (moving,
new job, school, you name it, it has been piled on), and there's no way I'm going
to remember someone's name that long. Was never that important to me, really.

2)Now, unless you missed the first sentence of my last post, it was in early
January of this year, late December at the very latest. That should be accurate
enough, assuming you communicate and actually know when you go into a state
of war. It should then be pretty easy to remember, unless acts of aggression
against the clans are considered trivial, and therefore go unrecorded...

3) Yes, it exists. It was in VW, near the river's edge, if I'm not mistaken. (Near the
river's edge was the grid exit's name, if that helps. We had 2 areas in VW.)

4)Log file? You mean the one I deleted when I took a break from AO? (Since I
didn't know when, or even if, I was going to return to AO at all). Sorry, no dice.

5)Did I claim to have talked to an Omni? No. Could you point that out for me?

6)Evidence, huh? It's been months, and a dead issue to me, as it wasn't a large
area, and my primarily played toon isn't in OC anymore. You could speak with
Apathetik/Hammerhound, as he is in OC and had, at one point, planned a raid to
take back the plot from the Omni's that Ninja'd/collaborated to get it. (Whether or
not this was successful, I'm not sure, I retired shortly after this.) Even still, you
seem to miss my point entirely - it happened, with or without evidence of this
age-old story. Talk to the above OC representative and he'll confirm this story.

Not much evidence can be provided, and to expect it is a bit absurd, given the
amount of time it's been. It's wasn't a big issue then, given the low stature of the
land, and it isn't now. But for you to call me a liar outright is not only insulting, it
displays your own lack of records or discipline of your own ranks, in general. If you
have active leadship, someone should have been on to see this. But, as I said,
time and circumstance could have washed away any record for either party.

I won't press the matter, because what's done is done. But I will not forget what
happened then, and I'll be monitoring EO activities in respects to tower control.
Whether you believe me or not isn't of importance to me. Someone in your ranks,
in the time period given, in the place given, did what I've already reported. No
other neutral, clanner, or even Omni can accuse me of ever lying, and my word
has never be doubted in the past. I know what happened, therefore, from now on
if I see any notification of a tower raid on a clan base again, by EO, I'll inquire with
your leadership why such action is being taken - as well as the attacked party's.

It's partially my own fault for not taking appropriate diplomatic actions when it
happened, but such a lack of aggresive negotiation will not happen again on my
part. I'm somewhat grateful for your attention to detail and will make sure any
future hostilities are made public, large and small - with proper evidence. I thank
you for the newfound inspiration you have given me, in being more thourough.

I only wished to provide contradicting information, as I know first hand that EO
has not acted flawlessly in the fairly recent past. Nothing more, nothing less, and I
apologize for anything interpreted as name calling. The first post is always the
most heated, isn't it? Well, it is with me, anyway, so I hope you have a spec of understanding.

Furthermore, I'd like you to know that EO is not KoS to me, and I'm not harboring
ill will in any way; but rather seek that peaceful relations be more visibly enforced.
I know, from first hand experience, what EO (under prior leadership I assume) has
been responsible for doing to an innocent clan base. My (previous) clan's base.
Even if you do not believe, please do not a refer to me as a lying person - I have,
and will, continue to report the truth and nothing but. However, next time, I will
not be so empty handed, I can assure you of that. Good luck to you all the same..

[Jereziah]

on december 10th seemingly a noobi accidentally hit opcentres towers in VW. the towers did not seem to be lost at that time. the person that hit the towers was a level 30 soldier named Cantara (unknown to me). its quite unlikely that a toon of that level could take out a whole level 30-50 base, seeing as most towers would be out of level range.

one month later 3 neutral guilds hit the base, EO was not one of them. the base was destroyed. the guild that placed was mine, i had no knowledge and took no part in the attack i was simply told there is a free base in VW that i could take, i took it.

2 days later without warning and without being approached opcentre attacked my NEUTRAL guild at that spot. so.. it seems their policy of not attacking neutrals is somewhat flawed.

thats what my logs tell me. from what i can see EO did nothing.

/J

[Morthoseth]

Was gone by OC's retaliation came about, so I can't comment. However, I'm 100%
sure at least one EO was present for the demolition, along with a few others as
mentioned. I'm glad you brought that up, it brought a bit of my memory back.

But I remember an EO flag coming up the day the CT fell, otherwise I wouldn't
have talked to an EO member about it - I happened to be in Borealis (My old neut
stomping ground), and there was an EO member, so I decided to talk to him first,
since he was there in person. However, I'm sure the amount of EO's was maybe
two, more likely just the one I saw come up in chat - it was, as stated, a large
collaboration of neutral guilds that did the majority of attacking that day.
However, I'm still positive there was at least one (name eludes me) EO present.

As far as them attacking you? They should have talked to you first, but I can
understand the element of surprise. I mean, if 3-4 neutral guilds take your home
in VW (of 2+ years) without saying a word, then you probably don't feel it's even
necessary to extend that courtesy yourself, given the circumstance. What was
theirs was taken, and they wanted it back, pretty simple - why ask when your
base in VW was taken by multiple neut orgs, without any provocation... if you ask
me, they shouldn't have to open diplomatic channels to take back what was
stripped from them, if the same courtesy wasn't extended. What the neut orgs did
was an act of war, and I presume they thought whoever attacked, one of those
guilds would be taking over the land. Either way, I have no sympathy for that.

The replacement CT was put up in a matter of a couple of hours.. how can you
have such intimate details, if you "had no knowledge and took no part in the
attack"? If you saw the log of the only attack in VW at the time, and suddenly get
offered a plot of land (at the *coords* of the attacked area, at that), how can you
not be su****ious? Either way, even if you didn't have a hand in it, don't blame OC
for trying to take back their previously owned territory. Blame the neutral org(s)
that handed over a hot land control area, knowing there would be retaliation, and
not giving you the full truth. If anyone is to blame for the attack on *you*, ironically, it is them.

And best of luck to you, btw. VW is full of fond memories for me, from waaay back
in the day and OCs Org City is located in VW because it's such a preferred and (at
one time) peaceful area. I, for one, will not be placing towers there any time soon.

Too much drama.

Agaille, there seems to be even more confirmation that EO had, at least to a
degree, been involved in attacking towers in VW. I'm positive at least one was
present, but won't stress it any further. I know what really happened, but what's done is done.

[Howky]

I apolgise that my late reply on the issue.

I do remember the attack on the Along the Rivers Edges base in Varmint Woods. I can confirm that it was joint operation of couple neutral organisations to capture mining area under neutral miners.
As Elite Operations has always support neutral mining rights, especially in neutral territoryes. As VW northern border is count in New Land Citys nearby areas and so on to be neutral ground, we dont see any reason to drive back some of the frusting clan miners from area to make space for neutral miners. There was no personal intention that the attack was concentrated on OpCentre mining site.

The intervien of Omni organisation was result of timing issue as we where just transporting our Control Tower on the area. We did not have any idea that there was omni organisation lurking nearby for quick capture of the area after we clear it. As soon as the gas levels lowered we cleared the omni miners from the area and base was captured to neutrals. As Jereziah sayed the base is property of his org, The Leagues even this very day.

About clans, well EO and clan go way back in history. Not many knows or remember that EO was great land owner back when notum mining started. Having a very high QL notum mines under our controls. Those mining sites where taken by overpowered clan organisations joint forces. From those days we have been defending fiercly our right to mine. Not a single omni organisation attacked, us in those days, only clans...

Howky, President of Elite Operations

[keyya]

I apolgise that my late reply on the issue.

I do remember the attack on the Along the Rivers Edges base in Varmint Woods. I can confirm that it was joint operation of couple neutral organisations to capture mining area under neutral miners.
As Elite Operations has always support neutral mining rights, especially in neutral territoryes. As VW northern border is count in New Land Citys nearby areas and so on to be neutral ground, we dont see any reason to drive back some of the frusting clan miners from area to make space for neutral miners. There was no personal intention that the attack was concentrated on OpCentre mining site.

The intervien of Omni organisation was result of timing issue as we where just transporting our Control Tower on the area. We did not have any idea that there was omni organisation lurking nearby for quick capture of the area after we clear it. As soon as the gas levels lowered we cleared the omni miners from the area and base was captured to neutrals. As Jereziah sayed the base is property of his org, The Leagues even this very day.

About clans, well EO and clan go way back in history. Not many knows or remember that EO was great land owner back when notum mining started. Having a very high QL notum mines under our controls. Those mining sites where taken by overpowered clan organisations joint forces. From those days we have been defending fiercly our right to mine. Not a single omni organisation attacked, us in those days, only clans...

Howky, President of Elite Operations

The thing that I'm wondering is...back in the day...where were your Mines? Cuz if they were in the northern Clan areas its would be just as you say, frusting back neutral miners to make space for Clan mines on Clan ground.

[Howky]

EO had tower types from 1-5, they resided in New Land Desert and in Mort near Hope. Which can be count as neutral area.