Role of the NT

[Adjuster]

Seems they were a little too busy actually working on something to answer. I think that about covers the "Are the Devs even listening?" posts.

hehe. if they listened we would have multitasking nanobots, auto nuking cyberdecks and nano shields.. :P But I agree, 16.0 seems promising. Lets hope we get more before v20.0!

[Keldros]

Lets hope we get more before v20.0!

Yess since that will take 6-8 years at their current rate

[Delerium]

[I][B]Where we see that NTs have fallen behind is in two main areas, firstly that their nano damage hasn’t scaled upwards to the same extent as weapon based professions, and secondly that their defensive toolset no longer allows them to escape from situations like Nullity sphere used to provide on Rubi-Ka.

5,5 months and counting......

General - Cha'Khaz hit you for 8635 points of projectile damage.
General - Cha'Khaz hit you for 2235 points of poison damage.
Executing Nano Program: Nullity Sphere MK II.
Executing Nano Program: Nullity Sphere MK II.
Executing Nano Program: Nullity Sphere MK II.
Executing Nano Program: Nullity Sphere MK II.
General - Cha'Khaz hit you for 3536 points of fire damage.
*hello my old friend*

[Seventh]

*hello my old friend*

Pfft Del FC took care of that nt problem- no more reclaim after patch.

[Shadelore]

Sirr: You can talk about this endlessly, like it have been done for the past 15 months, but at the end of the day I personally will sum it up like this:

1: You have given a few select professions the best damageoutput and the best defences at the same time, killing balance and thus ruining pvp fun for most the professions not beeing in the God mode bracket.

2: NTs are as far off the God mode bracket as you can get here, together with crats and traders.

3: PvP these days are about: How many specials/perks you can get out in the shortest amount of time, number of God mode perklines you got(acrobat, layers, heals, resists) and HP. NTs are low ranking in all these respects.

Bottom line is: NTs will no more than they are now be able to stay alive long enough to use their fancy nr debuffs and roots, cause the NT have no defences except running at full speed..(But since every non rooting proff is fully stocked up on root grafts, the NTs seldom get very far).

I know you all want to be positive and constructive, which is fine, but personally I think the only thing that can help the NT is some proper defence in addition to other suggested changes.
If you cant stay alive, you have no use for fancy tools....

[Seventh]

3: PvP these days are about: How many specials/perks you can get out in the shortest amount of time, number of God mode perklines you got(acrobat, layers, heals, resists) and HP. NTs are low ranking in all these respects.

About defence its possible to argue in theory- rather then tanking nt got roots to keep other side away, blinds to make it miss, NS for hardcore situations, ets. In practise all it takes is to hit alpha to drop nt- no real way to outheal incoming dmg means that even if nt gets NS up in time he still will be dead just 19 sec later. The real point homever is offence- in theory nt is sippose to be dmg dealer- while in practise pvp dmg means alpha- and all nt perks looks like a delibirate attempt to insure nt wont get any. Dont even want to comment on that

Bottom line is: NTs will no more than they are now be able to stay alive long enough to use their fancy nr debuffs and roots, cause the NT have no defences except running at full speed..(But since every non rooting proff is fully stocked up on root grafts, the NTs seldom get very far).

Soli root immunity perk for the win (did i mentioned already just how much nm sucks for nt? ).

[Actium1]

grafts still land even at 100% resistance.

[Williemakit]

I think 16 has about done it for me. After 18 months of playing and building this NT and hoping for something in a patch besides a nurf my patience has worn really thin.

Let's see - what have we gotten that's positive...

We did get SL nukes - every one of them has a min cast time.
We did get some halfway decent dots with AI.
We can now calm like a crats or traders. For those NTs that are into PvP the roots are nice for those of us that don't PvP, well..

It's pretty bad when as one of the supposed top damage dealers in the game that can easily self cast the highest SL nanos available for my level at the min cast times that even when I dot and perk my tail off - I do not even come within 20% of the damage of other profs my level. Of course - that was before 16 and with the newly improved higher fumble rate and program overload now getting me 1 out of 5 times I imagine that I have finally made it to the bottom of the damage dealing list. Wow - I can calm stuff first time now and I guess there is still somewhat of a demand for PNH/IOR/Range.

I suppose if you built your NT to be a kiting ingot farmer - you did well until today :P Too bad for you. What about those of us that have no desire to kite and don't care if we ever see another heck and have zero desire to PvP? Build a doc maybe? Go find another game maybe?

Quit jerking us around. Either fix the NT or take it out of the game.

[Guer]

Well i logged only onece after patch .. got killed a few times in pvp(2 times insta-killed by a agent), got the taste of "capped" nukes and chit.. . And still I don't feel like logging back, I play W3 Dota, all pvp i wana without lvling and everytime i can choose another prof

[vexule]

My first toon was an NT. It was a frOOb account. Now I have all the expansions. I thought the perks were going to help make my NT not so gimped. They're ok, but they are all geared towards kiting it seems. The only time I can OD anyone is if there is a huge group of enemies and I cast VE or Kel's... that's cheating. If there's one enemy I do 1/10 of the damage as the other players in my party (so says the damage dumper). I use my NT now to farm monster parts in Ely. What else am I going to do with him? I keep getting levels and thinking "maybe when I hit TL 5 I will be of more use to my org/teams." But it doesn't happen. I play my Keeper now if I actually want to do something fun and be of use. Or my enf... or my doc... or my engie... you get the point.

Is anyone (at FC) listening to the NT community? Please help us. We love our toons and put a lot of time into them... but they are being thrown to the wolves.

[Mastablasta]

My first toon was an NT. It was a frOOb account. Now I have all the expansions. I thought the perks were going to help make my NT not so gimped. They're ok, but they are all geared towards kiting it seems. The only time I can OD anyone is if there is a huge group of enemies and I cast VE or Kel's... that's cheating. If there's one enemy I do 1/10 of the damage as the other players in my party (so says the damage dumper). I use my NT now to farm monster parts in Ely. What else am I going to do with him? I keep getting levels and thinking "maybe when I hit TL 5 I will be of more use to my org/teams." But it doesn't happen. I play my Keeper now if I actually want to do something fun and be of use. Or my enf... or my doc... or my engie... you get the point.

Is anyone (at FC) listening to the NT community? Please help us. We love our toons and put a lot of time into them... but they are being thrown to the wolves.

Geared towards kiting? You know that kiting is not an intended ability when the design of these perks was done. They are the way they are because long ago someone thought "ok, these new NT nukes that deal insane dmg. pr hit also require lots and lots of nano to cast, so all NTs should get from perks is nano regain since they have insane damage".
That was all (almost) true and dandy if you compared NT dmg output to the possible dmg from the SL weapons. All old weapons were nerfed and new ones were made to make SL weapons worthwhile. Whatever designer thought that the weapons introduced in SL at launch was any good, or armors for that matter, I don't know, but the one who took over didn't seem to think that NT damage needed a boost.

And please, for the love of this profession, seize your goddamn kiting in elysium! And good grief!? For MONSTERPARTS!? It's shocking how n00b every person that joined this game after SL launch are, no matter if they're lvl 2 or lvl 220. Ingots seem to be the only way they know how to make money and the only other way now that it's gone is monsterparts from the hecklers... good ****ing god...

[Ms_Idoru]

Far better monsterparts/hour from standing in the middle of a bunch of Scheol Chimeras and spamming VE/Kels.

But I suppose too many people aren't aware that there is more to SL than Ely brink...

[Jimacrat]

Well after reading thru this and hearing Sir whine about people not give "constructive" criticism I am left wondering. What was the point in starting this thread? Many months have passed and nothing has been done. The 16 series of patch has been finished and the NT still has meager team damage. Fumbles have curiously been increased tho. Seems to me that FC wants to phase this class out. Sir's description of the NT sounds good, but zero has been done to implement it. Makes for a good froob account so I guess FC is just using the NT as an SL lure. Poor unfortunates then learn otherwise. Yes I know this is not constructive but many many people have given excellent constructive information.. and for what? Just to be ignored. Actually I can add something very constructive. Fix something FC. You have had plenty of time and input, now do something!

[Hangface]

Target having 90% root immunity means that root will land 1 out of 10 times even if it passes NR check 100%. With say 5 sec recharge, it means 50 sec before we can root the target.

Thats as slight misuse of statistics, as the root might as well land in the first as the tenth time you cast it.

"We see NTs as being a profession built around nano based damage that can do competitive damage at the higher end of the damage scales, with a limited defensive toolset and being far more effective in team situations then solo.

They are saying that NT's cant expect to be great, or even good soloers, so I guess NT's have to live with that. Now, it would be nice to want to have an NT in team because of beeing an effective tool in teams. I have seen range mentioned, I have also seen the word artillery mentioned in these postings. So here is my main reason for posting:

I would find NT's attractive in a team situation if they could be the best artillery; i.e. being the proffession that start up combat in a PvM situation by dealing damage to mobs from a long range (outside of the mobs attack range) with good effectiveness (but having this reduced when the mob closes in and the guns and melee profs starting to work). If this is done by nuking, a big chunk of mobs in an are or a room could be taken down to 3/4 or 2/3 or 1/2 of their HP before tank takes over aggro, and the calmers calms (that beeing either NT or other calming profs).

You could even add a root/calm to that nuke so that the team can start on the closest mob without having too much trouble with a whole room aggroing at once. The root could even have longer duration with distance. With a 2-4 minute recast time, this wouldn't be effective in PvP, but it would be usefull in a dungeon where you go from room to room cleaning out the mobs. In small rooms this wouldn't have any effect, so that you coulnd't just run trough a mission nuking every mob and thus you would need a mix of profs.

My humble opinion, and might be totally outside of reality due to my knowledge of the details in the game (or the lack thereof). But beeing able to bring the artillery into a mission sounds wery nice to me.

[vexule]

Well after reading thru this and hearing Sir whine about people not give "constructive" criticism I am left wondering. What was the point in starting this thread? Many months have passed and nothing has been done. The 16 series of patch has been finished and the NT still has meager team damage. Fumbles have curiously been increased tho. Seems to me that FC wants to phase this class out. Sir's description of the NT sounds good, but zero has been done to implement it. Makes for a good froob account so I guess FC is just using the NT as an SL lure. Poor unfortunates then learn otherwise. Yes I know this is not constructive but many many people have given excellent constructive information.. and for what? Just to be ignored. Actually I can add something very constructive. Fix something FC. You have had plenty of time and input, now do something!

Thank you, I feel the same way. Maybe a thread like this (except with constructive content and less "You should play the profession this way because that's the way I do it and only my way is the right way" bull****) should be started in the Game Suggestions section of the Forum. I feel similarly that there are a lot of good ideas/suggestions that go ignored, on various levels. But then again, it may be that they aren't ignored at all. It may be that FC is in the process of implementing some of them right now. But I don't have any evidence of that really, so that's why I asked if anyone was listening earlier.

However, I think the reason the thread was started was to put to rest our fears that FC isn't aware of the problems. It appears they are aware, and hopefully they are trying to compensate for or fix them. It will happen... it will take some time, though. I have faith.

And Masta, I apologize for kiting in Ely. I don't really use my NT to farm monsterparts (unless it's a time of really low activity and my org mates ask me to kite for them, in which case I'll collect as many monster parts as I can...) I was just making a point that sometimes my NT feels a little useless... especially in any team setting. However, I've said this many times before, I would be more than happy (in fact I would love for this to happen) to lose our kiting ability in exchange for better teamability. This is just a suggestion, and this may be stepping on the Keepers' toes, but make the Notum Siphon nano recharge a team perk (or contrarily give Channeling of Notum more levels/make it scale better and thus worth training - I mean, 170 Nano every 11 seconds v. 417 every 5 seconds, which are you gonna choose?). Obviously, my level isn't high enough to really assert that Channeling of Notum is as useless as it looks on Auno.org (no perk specials, what's that all about?), so if high levels want to chime in that would be ok with me. Anyway, that's just one suggestion among many that exist... But the point is, until teamability is increased (and I don't even think it will take a dramatic increase, just enough to get all the NTs into teams where they can contribute) I don't see any reason why NTs shouldn't kite Ely (as long as they aren't training people and kill stealing and all that other bad **** other people always complain about...) since it's a useful part of our toolset.

~ Vex

PS - I realize there's always the 'get some more levels before you post crap like that' issue... but hey, it's a work in progress.

[chickensand]

Some easy steps can be done to fix NT's damage like making the damage percentage stacking in the Enhanced Nano Damage perk line, which is not. At level 215 with the full line trained, an NT should have 18% damage increase, but now it only give the 5% from the 6th perk as I read in the forum. Correct me if I am wrong. Even though 18% can still get a NT nowhere close to the best DD in PVM team, I wonder why the step has not been taken?

My NT is 165 atm. In a 160ish Ado team, I was tired of switching aggro and the MP scrambling to direct the healpet to help the doc, so I just kept the aggro to myself with the enveloping flames mixed with spec3 nukes. In the end, I was still number 3 DD after MA and sold, before MP, crat, doc, enf, etc. With the aggro and medium DD, I start to feel I am a screwed up enforcer with poor hp. So why don't I just roll an Enf instead?

Btw, I rolled my NT because I believed the statement of "the heavy artillery in the team".

I am not going to level the NT anymore before FC fixed the profession.

[Delerium]

At level 215 with the full line trained, an NT should have 18% damage increase, but now it only give the 5% from the 6th perk as I read in the forum. Correct me if I am wrong.

you are wrong.

[Yamaeda]

Thats as slight misuse of statistics, as the root might as well land in the first as the tenth time you cast it.

7th use of statistics is correct. It might land on the first try, but there's no guarantee it'll land on the 10th, 20th or even 30th try, so on average a 10% chance means 10 tries, thus 50 secs.

And that's without NR-check.

The only error was the statement that it will take 50s, as the correct statement is: It will take 50s on average.

/Y

[Keldros]

With 90% root immunity, the probability of a root landing on the first attempt are roughly equal to the probablility of the root missing on the first 22 attempts.

Saying "It could land within 5s" makes the same amount of sense as claiming "It could take 2 minutes."

table of probabilities for hitting/missing:

attempt #	hit	    miss
1	     0.1000000	0.9000000
2	     0.1900000	0.8100000
3	     0.2710000	0.7290000
4	     0.3439000	0.6561000
5	     0.4095100	0.5904900
6	     0.4685590	0.5314410
7	     0.5217031	0.4782969
8	     0.5695328	0.4304672
9	     0.6125795	0.3874205
10	     0.6513216	0.3486784
11	     0.6861894	0.3138106
12	     0.7175705	0.2824295
13	     0.7458134	0.2541866
14	     0.7712321	0.2287679
15	     0.7941089	0.2058911
16	     0.8146980	0.1853020
17	     0.8332282	0.1667718
18	     0.8499054	0.1500946
19	     0.8649148	0.1350852
20	     0.8784233	0.1215767
21	     0.8905810	0.1094190
22	     0.9015229	0.0984771

You actually pass the 50/50 mark around the 7th attempt, not the 10th.

In the time that NS2 lasts, we only have a 1/3 chance of landing a root on someone with 90% root immunity.

[Hangface]

The only error was the statement that it will take 50s, as the correct statement is: It will take 50s on average.

/Y

That was what I meant. Slight difference saying it WILL take 50s, opposed to 50s on AVERAGE.