Community answers - level requirements on nano programs

[_____________Browken]

Funcom have stated that they don't want every profession to be able to self-cast every nano, even at level 200.

Admittedly Traders and MPs can (and in both cases they can cast all their nanos very early) but that's mainly because they always have a buffing MP or Trader 'on hand' as it were.

Perhaps with hindsight they should have scaled up the trader and MP nano reqs to take into account the available buffs more (since both profs run out of new nanos very early), but I believe the nano designers made a conscious decision to make certain professions' nanos very difficult or impossible to self-cast at any level.

[XtroXtreme]

Adventurer was said to be a solo class (best at solo since they had everything, OK I fell for it and made an adventurer) but that should make them able to use all nanos avilable at ql 200 and less at lvl 200 even if they use pistols.

And put those pistols for adventurers avilable in shops (not trader shops, normal shops) together with all the "love" nanos that was put in the game for adventurers and fixers.

[Turin]

Originally posted by Cz
Turin, as far as I know, your main concern is the matter of breed difference when we have level requirements on nano formulas. I can't answer that yet. I'd have to see the next batch of nano formulas first, as they will have the full skill requirements.

On the Fixer / Adventurer batch the breed doesn't make that much of a difference because the skill requirements are so low (compared to the level requrements) that any breed can reach them before they get to the needed level. That will hopefully not be the issue with future nano formulas, hence e.g. the nanomage breed keeps that edge.

And I knew what you meant by an official post. Just wasn't sure what you consider a non-official post. Now I do.

Thank you for replying. Yes, the breed difs are exactly what I am refering to. I realize you dont know, and that is why I am so frustrated with your employers at the moment. There is no reason you SHOULDNT know already. The only reason I can think of that you dont know is because they havent figured it out yet. And that tells me there is a serious lack of planning. And that alone gives me cause to question the future of this game.

[cold]

Ah yes Cz. Our new nano's from now on will have the level req AND higher skill requirements because of the Shadowlands. Correct ?

Ok, Shadowlands is pushed back to 1st half next year already. It will be pushed back further (trust me, this always happens with software). So, it will be at least 1 year before we can get those items that boost our nanoskills to insane levels. This whole year, the professions that get the nano's will have to wait for 1 year before they can use their nano's at the intended level.

Please tell me I'm wrong.

[cold]

PS I'm glad I'm not an NT and my prof got a love patch before the high-skill-req-days. Enjoy your new NT-love nano :

Izgimmer's Level Requirement
Level : from 195
Matter Creation : 3500


You will get this nice nano within the next few months, but will have to wait till next year before you can use it.

[Maximilian]

Its reality, cold reality!

Maybe in the end we (Adv) were on the lucky side to get our 'Love-patch' that early - holy.

Max(imilian)

[Jayde]

Originally posted by Cz

On the Fixer / Adventurer batch the breed doesn't make that much of a difference because the skill requirements are so low (compared to the level requrements) that any breed can reach them before they get to the needed level. That will hopefully not be the issue with future nano formulas, hence e.g. the nanomage breed keeps that edge.

I'm sure you meant, "because the skill requirements are so high (compared to the level requirements) that the non-nano breeds can't reach them before they get to the needed level anyway."

Because that would make sense. =P

http://auno.org/ao/db.php?cmd=view&n...id=162119&t=ag

I'd love to see anyone self-cast that at level 100. =)

-Jayde

[________________nhaz]

this is a really easy one.


level reqs for nano programs completly ruin the Point of the IP system.

you might as well call yourselves evercamp/kill/level at this point.

[secondkenlon]

*sigh*

It seems there is no hope of getting them to pull the level requirements, given that 90% of the nifty toys in 14.5 are level restricted.

Well, I hope SWG doesn't end up screwing up it's skill system, though I hold little hope of that. (It is Verant, after all.)

[_______MartinDeShade]

I was worried about SWG screwing things up since it is done by sony also, but then I saw the project lead was the same guy that did Ultima Online and had my hopes increased. It can still go either way. Their skill system seems nice so far, the pvp aspects are nice, but their proffesion system seems too rigid on paper, and finally it is done with Verant so there is the scare of the Evercamp in space. What they will do with camping and uber items is the big question for me. My feeling is that there should be no such thing as uber and rare items in an online game. It could be rare and a little nicer than what else is available, but never uber because it imbalances the game. And rare should not mean camping, just low odds.

Martin

[Warlock]

Cz, do us a favour.... lock this thread, better yet delete it.

Its obvious FC are not interested in discussing this issue with us. The players blew a mile wide hole in the Dev's argument and so now your just ignoring this issue (like so many others). The worst part is the justification for this is an expansion that is now months away and will have to be paid for. Whoever came up with "Lets gimp the non-expansion players until they cough up for Shadowlands" is a genius.

Just do a final post that tells us:

Level Requirements on Nanos: Like them or leave

and put us all out of our misery by closing this.

[cold]

Agreed, Warlock... there's more to it than we know and they simply refuse to tell us so there's nothing to discuss, really...

[Nostra343]

sigh...

reading, even skimming threads like these makes me so depressed...

Cz and Cosmik have a tough job between two rocks that I wouldn't want and I don't envy - they dont' seem to be able to change a darn thing, but they must bear the brunt of our reaction.
However, I wouldn't want it also because it would break me eventually - I'm just not hardened enough to put the propaganda face for so long...

The logic the pleading the discussions the facts - none of them seem to have an _impact_, in this or almost any other thread/issue. When we do get response it's almost always "we've taken all suggestions and discussions into account, and we've decided to still do it the way we said we would" - regardless of whetehr 50% or 70% or 99% of actual players disagree with the idea.

Anybody remember that AO was supposed to be "skill not level based"? Developing skills can be sold to players as a reasonably fun activity... can leveling?

does ANYbody find leveling fun anymore?
Dam it, it's hard-work... no wonder eBay is so successful. People make out a living out of it because it's their day-job it appears.

I seem to look at situation where I'll level few chars to where I want them, say 135 of 145 or so, and have paid what, $400 or so to FunCom, ready to finally have some fun and explore rubi-ka etc, when wham, Shadowlands will come and change the rules, so instead of enjoing, I have to go back to the mines and level level level, hours of misery spent on each level just trying to reach that [b]pointless[b/[ magic number, while quietly raging because I spent so much work (work that's now worthless) in getting my skills up there, only for them not to matter after all...

meanwhile, content is on hold, camping is still there, pets can't find their way around, neutrals are getting no love whatsoever and are all but despised by FC, and basically any real problem that's been there 6 months ago is still there - tweaks have been made, always to mixed reaction as I'm sure poor Cz/Cosmik know very well, but somehow big things that come out of the production pipeline always come to near-universal negative reaction without anybody running it seeming to take a hint .

I _like_ AO! I like it because it has potential to be different!
Star wars? Been there done that for 20 years now - AO is fresh, new, Sci-Fi (sick of dwarves and elves already).

Why do so many players feel (perhaps mistaken, perhaps not)that developers/designers are AO's worst enemy?

[____________religion]

Arghh...

I just finally resubscribed to AO to see how things were going.

Since I much prefer skill based advancement, my choices were (AO, AC, and UO).

Since I have played UO to death and am on the way there with AC, I figured that I would give AO another try (3rd try...) since it looked like it was getting better during my second try (just before the IP reset).

I was really thinking that I would be staying in AO for a while this time as I really like a lot of the core systems (trade skills, combat flow, nano variety, etc) and think that they all have the ability to be made great eventually.

However, it looks like my time here will be short indeed.

Why?
Level based requirements.
Camping.

Although I do not care for the fact that one can not use any nano if they have the required skills for it (would have loved to see an extra set of skills...one for each profession that one could dump points into to use those nanos (green for starting profession, dark blue for the rest)), I still like the system overall.

Even breed/profession requirements bug me, but level requirements is going too far.

Why?
Level is meaningless if you do not spend your ip. At level 200, you could have the exact same character you had at level 1 if you never spent IP (how you would level is irrelevant).

What differentiated characters is (first and foremost) how you spend your IP.

If I am level 200 with no ip spent on rifle and someone else is level 60 with rifle maxed out, that other person should be able to use any rifle that the level 200 could use (and a lot more). With level restrictions, you break this.

If I wanted to play everquest again (ugh), I would have re-opened my everquest account (levelbased camping game).

I really want to stick with AO, but if level requirements stay in, I will reluctantly move on.

If you want to make AO a really great game:
-Fix items. Go through your weapons/armor/items/etc database and fix all of the weapons. Each weapon for a given skill requirement range should have tradeoffs vs all other weapons around its range (min damage, max damage, crits, recharge speed, attack speed, extra bonuses, damage type). Same for armor and other useful items.

-Fix tradeskill items (make it so that you can use level 1 base tools to do any tradeskill things...as long as you have the right skills. make higher quality tools then have requirements to use and grant bonuses to the fiinal product)

-Fix tradeskills (let us modify our armor/weapons...maybe give each weaponarmor a design tab (like a pcs wear tab) that has different part types. Let players add items to different part locations or swap out one weapon part for a different one)

-Fix Professions. Take a good look at each professions description (rewriting them if needed). Then go through and make sure that they can do whatever it is they do better than other professions. Give all professions at least 3 good weapon choices (low skill cost) and give professions that are supposed to be good at using particular weapons nanos to increase any of the weapons they are supposed to be good with by a good amount.

-Fix the skills. Go over all skills and see if they are 'attractive'. For any skills that are unattractive, either merge them into a logical skilltree, add content to make them attractive, or remove them.

-Improve on PvM. Add in a dynamic quest engine that can be tied to your dynamic dungeon generator (or better yet, buy the dungeon generator used in Daggerfall 1/2 from Bethseda Software) Make sure to add all kinds of quests. Let people select the type of mission reward they are looking for. Add more mission types. Add more creatures in all areas.

-Fix PvP: Look at what is working and what is not working in PvP. Come up with ideas for what could be done to fix things that are not working. Take a look at how any changes might effect PvM. Try out some changes on test, tell your testers what has been changed, ask them for any/all reasoned feedback on how the changes effect both PvP and PvM.

-Above all: Ask yourselves if any changes make the game more fun. If not, drop them and work on something else.

A big list? of course, I like AO and want to play it for a long time to go.

Hell, I would gladly (in my own free time, for free) take any one of the above projects, do all the initial design, and give you my results along with my reasoning. Give me a chance...and I will gladly contribute to the future of AO.

-Religion
-RK2 Crat/NT/Agent
-edited for readability...

[Warlock]

A short note to whoever came up with the following idea

"Lets give nanomages an extra nano point to make up for the fact that the level reqs. mean all classes can cast new nanos at the same level"

This doest even come close to compensation. Increase the fumble rate (or radically reduce nanomages fumble chance) and maybe you may have something we can accept.

I cant even take 2 weeks holiday (which I'm only a week through BTW) without my sig getting nerfed and FC coming up with even more bad news :-(

[___________Catalyste]

Sigh, I had no real issue as far as adventurer nanos went, with the level restrictions, BUT, when I reached the required level and no matter how I tried, I could still not use the nano, then we had a problem...so I support the idea of lowering the requirements, as the level restriction itself should be enough...I mean some of the adventurer nanos are unusable anyway, by "Perfect"' level 200 adventurers...if there is such a thing. We are faced with two options:
A) it needs to be looked at
B) you will get to use this at a later date (i.e.expansion), but we wanted you to stare at it and dream for a few months hehe

Oh well, I will keep trying

[Slyyk]

I didn't even bother reading past the second page in this thread. Do you know why?

After my own experiences with the new level based nanos, I've come to the conclusion that they are too restrictive. I have had several nanos that with only using implants and no other outside buffs I could upload and use before the level requirements were met.

If the new expansion pack will be bringing soo many new enhanced buffs to raise skills, what's the ****ing point if you are turning this into a level restricted vs. skill restricted game? I specialize in certain self buffed nano lines in order to excel in those lines. If I am restricted by artificially high levels when I could self equip said nanos earlier, but not others due to a lacking in abilities I don't specialize in, what's the goddamn point in trying to specialize?