RK-Ex

[_____________Alexion]

Have a setup similiar to a mail order delivery service. Log in a request for an item, you can specify ql and item and it comes in a few hours/days (or even instantly).

Couple restrictions on it though. First, an item must be available in stores. I.e. no rare or boss only items. Yes I'd prefer to be able to, but no way FC would even consider it. Second, the item would be very overpriced, multiple times the store price. This makes it so the stores are still useful, but if your willing to pay you can do it a bit easier. It'd also have a positive side effect of sucking some of the money out of the overinflated economy. This is actually a good thing, there aren't enough ways for money to get out of the system as it is. Third, possibly make the terminals to do this profession specific to add 'uniqueness' to the ability, but have the order form specify a shipping address, i.e. the peep that wants the item gets it directly. Thinking crat's would be very appropriate. Also, if its done this way there could be a 'cut' that the crat get, maybe even standardized as a percent of the cost of related to the ql. Fourth, think of a new name for it so FC don't get sued by Fed-Ex .

My only request for thinking of this great idea is that it be usuable by agents using fp:crat. I'm an agent and I only think its fair that I get to use what I invented .

[coldwarkid]

I think you've hit on a good idea here. Unfortunately, something you said makes me think it wouldn't work.

no rare or boss only items

That made me think, why have Funcom included Boss/unique-NPC only stuff when they know it encourages camping? I've only been playing AO for a month, but I've heard that unique NPC's such as Tarasque haven't always been a part of the game, so why introduce them?

I think the answer's the same thing that would put paid to your idea, as well as things like player-controlled shops. Clicksaver has fubared any glimmer of a functioning economy that Rubi-Ka may once have had.

Consider: I've just started a Fixer, and already have gone through three different SMG's in eight levels. I've found a type I like, but now I need to replace it again. I can't find my preferred type in the shops ATM, and I'd rather stick with my old QL4 gun than switch to another type.

Basically, I'm a prime target for a player-driven economy. I want a Mitchell Patriot QL10/12-ish - nothing fancy, and there's probably a similar weapon sitting unwanted and unloved in someone's inventory right now. However, I have no real way to reach that person, and they have no means of finding me. This is where bulletin boards or rented shop space would come in handy.

If no-one has a Patriot they want to sell, RK-Ex would solve my problem. Yes, I'd have to pay extra, but it'd be worth it for the right gun. Send an RK-Ex request, recieve a confirmation /tell, check the bank and there's my new Patriot.

Of course, If I have Clicksaver I don't need to do either of these. I can just specify a weapon type and QL range and wait for the right mission to come up. It's more certain than dredging through For Sale boards, and cheaper than RK-Ex.

Getting back to the Boss-only stuff, that's something you can't get with Clicksaver. As a result, if you want one of these items, you'll have to either get it as a mission drop, or buy it from someone who has one. Likewise rare drops from unique NPC's. These things have value in the game precisely because they're hard to come by. Unfortunately that opens up a whole new can of worms in the form of camping, inflated prices etc. and what little economy exists is functioning at the higher levels only, but it's probably better than nothing.

I'm not saying that using Clicksaver is immoral or makes you a bad person. I am saying that there'll never be a real economy on Rubi-Ka while trade is effectively restricted to items you can't more easily get with Clicksaver.

Cheers,

~R~

[_____________Alexion]

Eh IMHO the reason why the economy is screwed in AO, in rk1 but rk2 is getting more and more like this, is that there is no out to the money. Some items are worth 1M+ (many worth 20M+ or more) so everyone goes looking for those items. Everyone looks for those and by in large stuffs anything else in the store and sells it for near nothing, if they bother to loot at all. Your case in point I'm sure I've stuffed countless patriots in the booth, they aren't worth the hassle of selling to another player.

There are a bunch of things that can be bought in a store that I'd love to buy. But they just aren't worth searching stores for an hour to find, so i do w/o. But that is just silly. If I want to go and buy a nice suit irl, I go to the right store and they have them. If I want to buy, well lets say a .9mm Beratta I go to the right store and find one. If I want to buy some obscure CD that stores don't carry in stock, I go to a store and ask them to order it for me. A week or two later it comes in, they call me, and I pick it up. Yes I pay more but I got no objections.

The idea of driving for hours to find a particular item is just silly. The only comparable experience I've had was buying my PS-2, where I did have to call around quite a bit to find one. You could even try to implement some kind of inventory flux, where the lvl of the crat vs the ql of the item gives some kind of % chance of it being found, comparable to a sneak roll or something.

I just think that this would make shopping alot less of a chore, be a bit more realistic, and help to take some money out of the economy.

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by Alexion
Some items are worth 1M+ (many worth 20M+ or more) so everyone goes looking for those items. Everyone looks for those and by in large stuffs anything else in the store and sells it for near nothing, if they bother to loot at all. Your case in point I'm sure I've stuffed countless patriots in the booth, they aren't worth the hassle of selling to another player.

That's the point I'm trying to make - the only items which are in demand are rare, boss-drop only items that you can't easily get by other means. That's why they command a premium. There are a few exception, like Yalmahas, which simply have an exhorbitant price tag, but they're few and far between.

I think we're talking about two different economies though. I'm not talking about RK1 vs. RK2, I 'm talking about the difference between the high-level and low-level games. At low levels you're perpetually scraping to get by (unless someone else is feeding you money or equipment) and you always find yourself short of cash for that next piece of armour, weapon, nano or tradeskill item. At high levels it seems that money is the least of your worries, with availability being more of a problem than cost.

Both of these problems can be resolved with judicious use of clicksaver. The only thing it can't do is find you those boss-drop items that a mission term is never going to offer you.

Case in point: I sold the Patriot last night, having outgrown it and purchased something bigger. I offered it on the Neu. Shopping channel for cr1000 (QL4, remember) without much hope of recieving a reply, and headed off to hunt for a while. To my amazement I recieved a reply within 30 seconds of advertising it, from a higher-level player who I assume wanted it for a guildmate or an alt. Not only did this person cheerfully pay the asking price, they gave me a QL23 Keran's OT Grinner for later use.

Then I remembered: I got the Patriot from a boss drop. I've never seen one in the shops and the description implies that it's usually found as a kit. Clicksaver can't find one for you.

Later, I tried to sell some gear from a solo mission: a Strike Gun and a Dissaffiliation Sniper, both QL9, both for cr900. The Strike Gun's not a shop item AFAIK, but it does show up in mission descriptions, so Clicksaver can find it. Likewise the Sniper, which can also be bought in shops easily enough. The Strike Gun's a nice item and hits hard for its QL - I know my Engi main would have loved one at that level. I'm not a rifle user, but I'm informed that the Sniper is a bit af a favourite among those who are. I never had a single enquiry for either of them.

The Patriot's the first item I've managed to sell, from either of my characters. I've offered a few items before that are supposed to be popular, good quality items (Desert Reets, Rider Executioners) at knock-down prices, and have never had a single customer until the Patriot.

Even MORB, who maintains the code for Clicksaver, reckons there's a problem with it. In his words, you have two choices: don't use Clicksaver and have a hard time getting what you need, or use it and be able to find anything you want. This is why Funcom resorts to boss loot, unique NPC's etc. It's also why we have camping and an inflation problem at high levels. Most things are too cheap and easy to get hold of, except for the rare stuff which goes for silly money.

As for whether the shopping's "realistic" or not depends on whether you see Rubi-Ka as a frontier zone or not. Remember that the place has been the site of a low-intensity war that's been running, on and off, for a few hundred years now. In frontiers, you can't always simply trot down to the mall and buy what you need.

You're right that the game could do with a high-level money sink. As I've said, I think this is a good idea. I just don't think it'll work with all that's stacked against it.

Cheers,

~R~

[Palmero]

ok u can say much about the economy on RK.. but its not Click savers faul.. hell i remeber the time b4 clicksaver and that wasent fun... a ql 25 senpai armocoat was sold fore like 1mil+ (!!!!!) now days u can mission it and nowone is selling it fore 1mil.. it was the same whit most of the items. it was hard to find a mission whit a armor part u needed so the onece whit the armor could charge Crasy prices fore them... yes the economy on RK is Fubar but it issent CS fault....



/ Tolbat Masta Gimp

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by Tolbat
a ql 25 senpai armocoat was sold fore like 1mil+ (!!!!!)

I'd just like to say that if anyone out there thinks that this was a good deal for a QL25 piece of armour, there's a most attractive and historically interesting bridge just outside of Athen that I think you might be interested in...

I'm sure it's a great piece of armour, but dear God, it's still only QL25. Nothing's worth a mill at that level. I know it's rare, but is it really cr980,000 better than anything else you could buy at that level?

I had assumed that clicksaver simply made common items so easy to find that it had wiped out trade - in fact, if you go and have a look at MORB's thread, he seems to be making a similar assumption. However, if it's actually human stupidity that's driving the problem, it may well prove to be a lost cause.

~R~

[_____________Alexion]

It's worth so many credits because credits are worth so litlle. Money goes into the economy but never back out. But if you have people that'll pay 300-500k per ql 200 (173) cluster (believe may the would) Your talking about dumping 4-5M out of the economy every time someone build a set of ql 200 implants. figure another 2M+ for a set of ql 125 NCUs and a low ql 5x belt.

This wouldn't solve the problem but it would take some money out of the economy. And it is more realistic.

[coldwarkid]

Originally posted by Alexion
Money goes into the economy but never back out.

Again, we hit the disparity between the high level and low level games. At the low levels, money flows out of the economy every time you buy something from a vendor, because when the time comes to get rid of it you're never going to make back more that a tenth of what you paid for it.

~R~

[Palmero]

hmm well ok u didnet play during that time then... the senpai cots was rare like hell (cous no one wanted to look fore them in missions took ages to find them as revards) and all the high lvl players low lvl twinks needed them = they wher sold fore 1mil..
i remeber how i fixt my first coat.. it was a ql 50 and somone sold if fore 200k, and i remeber that it was a uber good price fore it.

so what can we learn from this??
1, CS isent bad it helps, u can mission the armor/weapons u need
2, if u dont want to mission somthing u can always buy it now (!!) cous no one can sell a normal armor that u can mission fore that cinda price nemore..
3, CS is helping the economy on RK

the things that r fawking the economy on RK is nulety mk 1/2 Grid armor and all the rare items.. yes all the NTs want to have a Nulety and all the fixers needs a GA, they r rare like hell so u can sell them fore Crasy prices and fixers/NTs will still buy them from u.

/ Tolbat Masta Gimp

[coldwarkid]

That still doesn't explain why it's only the rare/boss drop stuff that's selling between players. What I seem to be hearing is that pre-Clicksaver no-one bought common gear second hand and that rare stuff went for silly money. Post-Clicksaver, no-one buys common gear second hand and rare items go for less silly money. That's not really what I'd call "helping the economy", except by getting more rares into circulation at lower prices, but if anything it reduces your chances of finding a buyer for non-rare gear. When I talk about RK's economy, it's the player-to-player transaction I have in mind, not the player-to-machine one.

Your information does force me to change my position on RK-Ex though. If the procedure for acquiring common gear is to first use Clicksaver to mission for a rare you don't want, then sell it for an inflated price which funds the final purchase, RK-Ex will probably be wildly popular as a form of instant gratification. I had been assuming that Clicksaver was used to find the item you wanted directly.

Of course, if the mission system didn't allow you to choose the item reward you wanted as per Kuroshio's posts in the Clicksaver thread, the problem wouldn't occur in the first place.

~R~