Storyline a hoax. Players at best are 'extras' - Account Cancelled!

[______________Santse]

I just cancelled my account. Since I invested so much time in energy into my character..and into the hopes of this game ever getting better, I really felt that I should let FC and the players know why..and how I feel about this game:

Graphics are awesome..the world is stunningly beautiful. No doubt about it...it also was what kept me w/AO for so long. I've been with the game since Beta 4 - It is my first ever MMORPG.

The reason I bought into AO was because I thought it would allow players to shape the world politically and economically. Essentially a MMORPG that would go beyond only 'hack and slash' and the levelling and equipping race.

Of course..as we all know this never came to be. I then enjoyed the beautiful scenery and the intricate levelling system..always hoping - as we all do/did - that we would need to give FC a break and some time to develop the 4 year storyline - I.e. the "Wait..it's a four year story..don't expect all to happen at the beginning" excuse..or hope.

Well, I then went 'guild shopping' and eventually joined a guild..belonging to Red Freedom. I stuck with them for like two weeks (not that I could leave..due to a bug). Well..and I started to get annoyed that the GM players (Portman, etc.) would 'port' the guild leader off to some 'meetings' where he would be 'briefed' on events.

At one of such player-'interactive' meetings, Portman was 'captured' - I then asked the guild leader if he felt that if we as players would have done something differently (such as accompanying the guild leader in force to protect Portman) we could have prevented Portman's capture. The short and quick response was that he didn't think so...beginning w/the fact that the GM's were only porting him to this 'meeting' - So, essentially this was all staged..using a couple of player extras to fill the stage. Our somewhat pathetic guild response was a 'raid' on 2HO..it was fun..but more than anything ..well..it was an attempt at 'roleplaying'..but essentially inconsequential to the overall whole planet of RK

For me an important factor is a dynamic and integrated economic system, where players strive to use economy to change world dynamics. This though isn't possible without including some type of real estate that changes in value according to some sort of supply and demand system. This is non-existent in AO. It doesn't exist. There are missions and some valuable mission rewards..but no 'real estate' - such as a possibility to create effective interdependencies between groups of players based on commodities/tradeskills/territory. This does not exist in AO, and it will NEVER exist! To implement this now would revolutionize the game dynamics..and basically make it a different game, where a storyline could not be controlled, such as FC has it in mind.

So, in essence, there are only two things in this game for players left to do:

1) Participating in 'events' as extras, where it is of no consequence if they are present or not. These can be fun..but require pure role playing..and your fantasies are limited by FC's implementation of the storyline.

2) Levelling and equipping. This, due to the intricacy of AO's skill system is fun for a while, but once you hit lvl 60 you know how to manage it. It boils down to finding power levelling spots (for levelling) and figuring out a way to camp missions booths for the items you need to get. The dynamics of the game basically make you do fundamental changes every 15 or so levels in the build of your character. All this can be fun..but isn't really very much 'MMORPG'

So, in conclusion, I don't feel this game is very 'immersive'. I also fail to see the group or massively multiplayer effect, other than social chit chat in guilds. Can be fun to..but essentially it's an extra bonus..and you could do very well without it if you so choose. Massive coordinated combat is nearly impossible..and there is no real point to it..since it really doesn't help you or your group in achieving anything consequential in the game itself. So..it can be fun..but is not 'part' of the game itself.

In essence: beautiful gameworld..but not really a 'game'

I'm now waiting on www.shadowbane.com or www.eve-online.com to come out.

Santse over and out!

[________________cson]

http://www.eve-online.com/

Wow, I hope they accept my beta application. Anybody know how you get picked for beta testing? Of course, I'm sure AO had a lot of anticipation prior to it's release, but Eve is newer.

Actually, AO hasn't locked up on zoning since the last patch so I should be happy. In fact, AO has stopped crashing! Woo hoo! I guess Funcom is actually fixing bugs. But my lvl 101 MA really sucks now, and I don't feel like starting from scratch. I wish I were a lvl 101 MP.

[_____godthe bugs!!!!]

just signed up for beta testing. Heh, maybe theyll pick some of us AO people that have been here from the beginning to help out with keeping them from following the same path of too many bugs and too much instability. but then again no one knows what will happen with any game till it goes live.

[___________Chagidiel]

Well, as i stated elsewhere... I feel I control the story...that is the story I tell, and create. I effect people around me, and they effect me, and together we have a quite intresting story to tell, at least that is my humble opinion.

Its so damn obvious that 40k people cant all play an equaly important role in a story.

[_______________Hiero]

Originally posted by Chagidiel
Well, as i stated elsewhere... I feel I control the story...that is the story I tell, and create. I effect people around me, and they effect me, and together we have a quite intresting story to tell, at least that is my humble opinion.

Its so damn obvious that 40k people cant all play an equaly important role in a story.

Yes...I agree with this completely. I don't really know what people are/were expecting from AO. Been watching the progress of www.shadowbane.com for some while. Yes...it looks fairly good...but to me gaining and holding territory in itself isn't a "story". Funcom are providing a story. And as the good Father Chagidiel says, we all have our own stories to tell and or act out.

Finally. The point about event's requiring participents to puerly Roleplay...is really a moot point. After all AO is a MMORPG a not a MMOG. If you are after and MMOG then wait for Planetside...

I really do think that is all there is to it.

[Dabblez]

I think of the Official Storyline as a backdrop, something for my character to talk about in the pub (that and the Galway Brontos).
But as Chagdiel says, 40k people cannot all be the protagonists. If you want to roleplay more, you have to make your own roleplaying.

[______________Scorus]

Originally posted by Chagidiel
Well, as i stated elsewhere... I feel I control the story...that is the story I tell, and create. I effect people around me, and they effect me, and together we have a quite intresting story to tell, at least that is my humble opinion.

There are a couple of links here to an interview that Ragnar did with 'Shift' in which he says that the story will be told by the GMs, not created by the players. He says that on a couple of occassions in the article.

Scorus

[___________Shorthack]

Originally posted by Scorus
There are a couple of links here to an interview that Ragnar did with 'Shift' in which he says that the story will be told by the GMs, not created by the players. He says that on a couple of occassions in the article.

First off, you kind of responded wrong...Chagidiel was talking about his own story...My character has a story too, and there's no way some GM is gonna tell my story for me.

You're correct. There are many characters in the story that are much bigger than any of us players hope to be. Nobody here is gonna become the next Phillip Ross or Henry Radiman.

I likened AO to Babylon 5 - there's a 4 year story arc that's been written. We will deviate from the path slightly, but we will be nudged back onto the path quickly, as with the assassinations. We deviated, put the DC members on trial, and now we're back to the "regularly scheduled" story arc.

In Babylon 5, you had a 5 year story arc, that was supposedly supposed to end with Captain Sinclair becoming Valen. Unfortunately, the actor who played Captian Sinclair decided to leave the show after the first year. So, they brought in another Captain (Sheridan), had a few episodes dealing with his new position on the station, and then went back to the "regularly scheduled" story arc. The Shadows attacked on schedule, the Vorlons mess us up on schedule, hell, Sinclair still became Valen, albiet earlier than intended.

You are entirely correct that the story will be told by Funcom and the GM's. That's what a GAME MASTER does - tell the story. We can sway it if we're careful, but chances are we'll waver it only slightly, and then we'll be back on track.

Besides, you'd be crying louder and more foul if Funcom actually picked about 10-15 players to be the protagonists of the story, because they left you out. They'd be "playing favorites" and "screwing the rest of us" because they didn't include you personally in that 10-15 player bunch. Funcom can't win in this situation.

I do hope you have good travels in whatever realm you choose to explore next.

[______________Santse]

Most of you aren't getting my point and criticism about the storyline. It's not that I wanted to become the next Philipp Ross..or 'hero' - that isn't the point of my post if you read it carefully.

There simply isn't the possibility to create a reality in the game that gives your character a backdrop to 'act' out his role playing..other than social chit chat and occasional /disco. There is no economic system that gives players the opportunity- and creates the need to actually form organized groups that actually have the ability to control supply and demand..trade routes, etc.

This would have political impact..and would even give the most casual of all players to be 'part' of the grand scheme of things. Right now this game is only good for those of you that enjoy a graphically pleasant chat room where you can live out your fantasies..w/o this actually having ANY impact on the storyline..or the game world around you.

Whatever story you tell...you might as well be telling the wall facing you.

Oh..and there's another game coming out: www.mimesisonline.com - for those of you out 'shopping' for something to kill time until www.eve-online.com comes out.

[_______________Hiero]

Originally posted by Santse
Most of you aren't getting my point and criticism about the storyline. It's not that I wanted to become the next Philipp Ross..or 'hero' - that isn't the point of my post if you read it carefully.

There simply isn't the possibility to create a reality in the game that gives your character a backdrop to 'act' out his role playing..other than social chit chat and occasional /disco. There is no economic system that gives players the opportunity- and creates the need to actually form organized groups that actually have the ability to control supply and demand..trade routes, etc.

This would have political impact..and would even give the most casual of all players to be 'part' of the grand scheme of things. Right now this game is only good for those of you that enjoy a graphically pleasant chat room where you can live out your fantasies..w/o this actually having ANY impact on the storyline..or the game world around you.

Whatever story you tell...you might as well be telling the wall facing you.

Oh..and there's another game coming out: www.mimesisonline.com - for those of you out 'shopping' for something to kill time until www.eve-online.com comes out.

Well Santse...now you put it like that...I can only agree with you. If those ideas were put in place in AO, it really would be fantastic.

[_________machievelli]

Star Wars Galaxies is going to try to pull off players actually having an effect in the war.

What remains missing from this game are any clear objectives given to players - and that those objectives - when met - have real world effects.

Example: Missions to effect the story. Non-existent. Sure, missions are being given to guilds - but from my experience so far with the story - the end of the missions have been predetermined.

Thus, what we have in story structure is a linear progression with a main story line that will not be changed based upon player actions.

My original thoughts about this game were that the "story" would be implemented much like the old choose-your-own-adventure books.

The story would start the same - however - as the story progressed, different decisions made by players and player organizations (or successes and failures) would lead the story down one of many branches. Like the old choose you own adventure books, the story arc could "cross back" over to the "main line".

For example - clans are given mission to destroy a notum facility. In fact they accomplish this feat. That accomplishment could begin the story down the different scripted arc - one where all the notum facilities are destroyed - and........... OR - the clans fail at their goal, leading the story down a different arc.

In essence, the story - although scripted like a choose your own adventure book - would lead us to different places depending on the actions of the players in the world.

I think they can STILL implement this if they have designed the story in such a way - BUT - it doesnt seem that they have.

Just my two cents.

-Machievelli

[___________killahsin]

i believe all of your gripes about trade routes etc etc, will end as soon as the amnesty does :P

hint hint..

[Slingback]

I am soooo sorry!!!

I'm looking forward to SWG as much as the next guy, and believe me, the next guy is really looking forward to it - I know him personally...

BUT, any illusions of influence on the universe in SWG is really quite unlikely: No way we are going to have an effect on the story. The story has been told. I have it on tape!!!

AO has the advantage that we don't know the story in advance. I mean what will happen with that Amnesty??

Btw, Machiavelli, your comments about branching story arches are interesting, and perhaps even implementable, but that option would be horrifically expensive...

Another, more likely option, is that however we chose to destroy that Notum launcher for example, it will be destroyed - because the story says so. The rescue of that scientist chick from the cyborgs is case-in-point.

Branching dialogue trees are bad enough to do - and you're suggestion branching story arches? (/me puts on a thick scotish accent) Ar ye MAD???!

But it would be cool if they actually did it...

[______________Shinji]

Originally posted by Hiero


Finally. The point about event's requiring participents to puerly Roleplay...is really a moot point. After all AO is a MMORPG a not a MMOG. If you are after and MMOG then wait for Planetside...

I really do think that is all there is to it.

Damn good point!
If u think ull get a finished story just to consume from a MMORPG, you can try any of these games and will disappointed.
Somebody i know from UO (he was first Companion i have ever seen and talked to) said to me after i asked him about the GREAT GOAL for me as a player:
Ultima Online is what u make out of it! There is no given way of playing. You are free in everything u want to do!
This may mean some difficulty because players have forgotten what fantasy is, what creativity is. All in all you get out of a game what you invest in a game (and money is not meant here )!
Be creative and it will be great.
Funcom Events can only give u the frame for your actions for your RolePlaying. But it will never and can never in no MMORPG be the whole aspect of RPG.
I think i have nothin more to say about it!
So far
Shinji

Nothin more to add here i think

[______________Santse]

..yea, there is something to add: For those that enjoy the "RPG-factor": Hold each other's hands and sing "Kumbaya my Lord!" - 'cause whatever story you tell...it won't make a difference if you tell it or not. It won't make a difference if you attack that notum mine or not...at best your name will show up on AO's official web site...and you got your 15 minutes of fame.

...just thought I'ld 'troll' on, while my account is still running

[___________Chagidiel]

Acctually Sant. I do understand your critisim...and i still say, I have my own story, and even some real political influence...that would be among other players, and not in the FC told story.

It all comes down to what you make out of it by your self.

And Mach. I am truely sorry, but I honestly dont think SWG will pull that off. I think it will be a great game, but theres no way ever a compuetergame will have its story changed dependent on what differnet guilds have done.

I know some folks think UO was great, since it was player controled, but honestly...It was meerly a bunch of guilds fighting, and it got boooring in the end.

If one want something new, then a background and story is good, but if you have that, you have to let go of completly player controled...

[__________HeeroYuy34]

I was hoping that AO's story would be completely player-driven like in Mankind, where you can build glorious empires and effect the entire game universe. Of course the most I was hoping for was to at least allow players to actually be elected into the Council of Truth and effect the clans' decisions.

[MrBunny]

Before I bought AO, I was debating whether or not to buy AO or to buy World War 2 Online. In World War 2 Online, you can actually take cities, and hold them, then move onto the next and hold them. And in essence if you managed to take axis cities, you would win. And if you managed to take the vital allies cities, you would win (well if you were axis) but anyway the following point isn't about taking cities.

I think that the problem that some players might feel is that, there isn't enough for people on an average to do to affect the game politics. To the point where, if say in theory, all the clans just decided to ban together and try to take Omni and kill Ross, then they wouldn't be able to. Well that was a work of grammatical genius. Let me rephrase that.

Like, let's say every single clan decides that they will team up and kill Philip Ross in Omni. Thereby effectively taking out Omni's Ceo, maybe hopefully putting the company in some kind of turmoil. Enough turmoil that maybe they would be able to force Omni to leave Rubi Ka. I mean at the very least, make Omni kinda go crazy for a bit.

It's my understanding that some players feel that they feel restricted by a storyline that is already in place, and that all we are going to be .. is just the audience at the very most. I mean sure, there might be.. say shifts in the story line. Events as you might call them.

But on the whole, you won't be able to say.. ever really kill Philip Ross even if all the clans decided they would group together and storm the city. Because like every good GM in d&d there is always going to be one reason or another Philip Ross escapes to continue on with the already in place story line.

Philip Ross' double. Philip Ross had advanced knowledge, evaced to a safe location. Philip Ross's hologram. Philip Ross is actually a leet in holo world, controlling Omni corp. Philip Ross used nano technology to become Henry Raidman. Philip Ross used the insurance technology to become Henry Radiman while the clans raided Omni. Philip Ross was aboard the U.S.S Enterprise while Omni was being attacked. Philip Ross is actually Jesus Christ, son of God.

It's my understanding, that the people who feel that this story is in place and not changeable to a big degree.. are wishing that even if say, the clans banded together to take out Omni, they they would be able to. And that the effect could be felt throughout Rubi Ka. Or if say, Omni shook hands with U.S.S Enterprise's captain Jean Luc Picard and good ol' frenchie fired off a million photon torpedos at the Clan cities, that it would have an actual effect.

It's my experience that a good gm in d&d should even allow the players to drastically change the storyline and expect that the player's do something unexpected. Like I mean if the players decide it's time to jump off the castle walls in hopes that their leather armor will protect them from the icy sharp stalagmites below, then they should do it. Even if it would kill them.

Is it out World or their World ? (the last part was a serious question)

Just a curious bunny. ^^

[___________Chagidiel]

OOC
Bunny:

...That was one of the most confusing posts i read in a long time...though I mean that in a good way

Yes, I see your point, and generally I would agree... If it was not for the fact that a whole bunch of the people playing this game, aint intrested in making a good story...There only intrested in being in the spotlight, and that will, in a matter of days degenerate the whole story (which is the reson most folks play this game) to a guildfight thing, which we all have seen, and grew tired of a long time ago.

Lets create a hypothetical situation:
Clanner guilds get together and kill Ross...Omni guilds gets together and kill Radiman...In revenge clanners kills next omni-wellknown-NPC...Omniguilds kill next-wellknown-clanner-NPC.

When all important NPC:s are dead, or dies when ever they enter the story clans and omni fights over "stragtegical important places"...That would be something like this:
Day1 Clanners takes 2ho
Day2 Omni recapture 2HO
Day 3 Clanners takes 2HO...

You got my point? While its perfectly alright, and possibel to let the players tell the story in an ordenary RPG with only 4 players wanting to become center of the world, this is not a good thing when 40k people wants to effect the world and become center of the univers...


And to answer your question to whos world it is...

The situation is the same as in real life... Its not your world, and its not those in political controls world. It is something in between.

Your actions in RL and in AO will effect the world, to some extent, but never acctually control the world. The politicians (in AO that would be Ross and Radiman...that is Funcom) will have the largest control of the world.

[MrBunny]

Oh I see your point.

It does make sense logically. Since thats a possibility howabout funcom implement what Cornered Rat Software did (makers of World War 2 online) when the game is won, say.. when radiman or ross dies, and the clans or omni take over rubi ka, then the game just resets .. that is, they would respawn and all the cities go back to their original political affiliation.

Just a stab in the dark.