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Thread: Can there ever be peace?

  1. #81
    ((Am I the only one who finds humor in someone asking an NLF member if they know that "nanomages only live on Rubi-ka because of the notum", it's a lot like asking Alan Greenspan to define the word "economy", or asking Bill Gates if he's ever heard of a computer ))
    __________________
    Sundai -Atlantean
    "Cheap Dominatrix" of RK1 (lol!)

  2. #82
    *sighs*

    Do you seriously think that humanity will all of a sudden loose their greed when we don't have notum anymore?
    You think We wouldn't be fighting to get ourselfs higher up than the other one if we didn't have Rubi-Ka? Suppose there wouldnt be any notum...what do we do? Sit around and have teaparties and picknicks witheachother singing campfire songs?
    The aliens wouldn't care less if humanity was at stake...Everything is at stake...The Source isn't being guarded anymore. Don't forget we killed the guardian ourself. Why did we do that by the way? Cuz he was a ugly?
    No..The thought was "Im here, but I really wonder whats over there. And that something over there must be pretty damn important if theres a big ugly guy standing there killing anything that comes close to it...hmm...I wonder, maybe if I kill it I might be able to get that important thing for myself. Hes too ugly to have it. I want it!" Without even having a clue what *it* is...Was the same when the first person went through the gates to Inferno and the other shadowlands. Same when we opened the portal. Same when we came to Rubi-Ka.
    Nothing has changed. Nothing ever will. Were humans..except the fact that theres always someone going to be willing to do something to better himself and there will probably be someone else who doesnt agree with him or her and try to stop it from happening.
    My title Keeper. My mind on my grind. Assembly's my heart. They shine when I shine.

    Kyarash "Legaron" Davoudi
    Keeper of Assembly

    "Seen through human experience there are as many worlds as there are humans. Understanding that the word "human" defines a point in eternity and not a seperate reality is the begining of knowing"

  3. #83
    I'm landing in this dump heap of a planet in about half an hour. I got my orders from ICC and in the corporate trash of Omni. But, I say this let's call a total ceasefire. I am coming for one purpose save you from yourselves. And, exterminate the vermin alien invaders from this planet. You may either be with me or against me. But, let's obliverate them this is our world and we deserve to fight each other. Not them trying to exterminate us. And, see if for once we can work together. Because I fear this is only the beginning.
    Correct me if I'm wrong...so what youre saying here is that you're coming to a planet that you think is a dump heap but its our planet and you wanna kill of the aliens because they're cutting in on your action?
    And now we have to work together to kill the aliens so that we can kill eachother in peace?

    Great...I'm with ya all the way! *shrugs, raising an eyebrow*

    Ok short and simple, I am thinking of putting in the timeline but ICC has made Corporate Laws and Omni has to abide by them. They hav to obey every order ICC tells them to do. This is corporate conspiracy at it's best. Everyone wants to blame Omni. ICC intervines they get Rubi-Ka lease back and now ICC owns Rubi-Ka. And, Rubi-Ka will be ruled in a Dictatorship. It is imperative we live on this planet. Doubted there is Clan andOmni in 29550 in about 50 years ICC will own Rubi-Ka. We need to put our differences aside and fight ICC. They will be much worse than Omni.
    The rules that ICC has made themselfs are actually a bit different then that. When the lease on Rubi-Ka is over there will be an option on it for all Corporations.

    Some things I don't quite understand of what people are saying about Notum. My fellow Atroxes...Ehh..I can understand...we get confuzzled sometimes..tip..use good brain symbiants man, sugar in cake doesnt affect them!
    As I was saying. The Omega were immortal because they found a way to keep nanobots fired up and running inside your body. They had some sort of fuel for the nanobots to stay charged. Our body doesnt have enough fuel to keep nanobots running so how they did that? No idea...Wasnt cake for sure.
    Then we found Rubi-Ka. The planet already has a lot of nanobot like thingys floating around it as if its radiation of some sort.
    Notum is sorta fuel for the nanobots. Dunno how to keep us immortal but heck we can do a lot of other nifty things like enforcers growing twice their size and metaphysists bringing out demons just by getting angry and stuff..
    Its all really confuzing to me and my head turns when I think too much about it but I think...*holds his head*...I mean I supose that what I just said was sorta right...sorta..

    Some other stuff i didn't quite undestand is the princess thingy...andeh..whats a greek? Oh and where can I find a holo-flick on Afrikun conquest and the ameri..whatchemacallits...
    Romans I thought over...didn't understand it first...but I got it now!
    Omnis who live in Rome-blue and -red...right?
    ...right..?
    [[dont forget that we have no history relating to what has happened before 2020something when the Omegas tried to murder all humans on earth .
    Nice thread all the same. some good arguements on it too]
    Last edited by Legaron; Mar 14th, 2005 at 04:00:34.
    My title Keeper. My mind on my grind. Assembly's my heart. They shine when I shine.

    Kyarash "Legaron" Davoudi
    Keeper of Assembly

    "Seen through human experience there are as many worlds as there are humans. Understanding that the word "human" defines a point in eternity and not a seperate reality is the begining of knowing"

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrian
    Yes, this fact is well known to me. However, I would gladly trade my life for all those destroyed by greed and envy, both fruitless products of the savage human mind...

    Would you be willing to do the same, even for those that you love?
    I really shouldn't be the one to answer this, since I'd wind up making myself out to be some selfish jerk.

    I've already lost most of what's important, and the things that are left... If I sacrificed myself for anyone or anything I care about, it wouldn't be worth the cost. I know, it makes me look insensitive, but the truth is I can do much more while I'm still here than if I were gone.

    It may seem like the more complicated road, and it is, but I'd rather fight it out and keep on going than fade away and have it be in vain.
    "Yay, full team of 6."
    "With Jaszt's ego, it's more like 8."
    "Hey now, that's not fair... it's more like 18."

    [16:28] <Escritores> Jaszt for president

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Cobrian
    Yes, this fact is well known to me. However, I would gladly trade my life for all those destroyed by greed and envy, both fruitless products of the savage human mind...

    Would you be willing to do the same, even for those that you love?
    I'm a soldier. It's what I do.

    And Legaron: if we can unite to kill off the Aliens, then we will not only have reduced the risk to the rest of humanity, we will also learn how to kill each other much more efficiently. I just hope that the Clanners are that little bit more susceptible to learning..
    It's a gamble but I deem it worth taking - at worst we'll be no better off than before those creeps came here.
    Tempus fugit.

    Everybody has a photographic memory.
    Some don't have film.

    When you find a big kettle of crazy it's best not to stir it.
    -PHB/Scott Adams

  6. #86
    [Good point :P]

    Still...last reports of clanners going to the outzones to help deffend our planet against the aliens just proves me right.
    When clanners were helping the Omni-Tek employees to aid a deffence mechanisme the same thing they were trying to rescue attacked *them*.
    I'm not going out there to kill aliens and when the last one has been killed turn around and see a horde of Unicorns pointing their guns at me.
    Puts me in a big disadvantage.

    And we are very good at learning by the way. Considering that the clans started off with nothing at all to raise cities, fund them and the people inside of it, protect it with our own guards and even establish a democracy shows that we have learned a lot.
    Instead of bringing in guards from a different planet we put our own there. So I wonder who's better at learning...the clans or omni-tek employees.

    And talk about the rest of humanity...Now that we are in a war with a race of aliens that are determined to end humanity I wonder whats keeping the rest of humanity to aid us. Only when ICC showed some good will by giving free of charge acces to this planet some new people came in to our aid. I don't see no fleets coming in from Omni-Tek except the ones that came here to guard the cities and its facilities.I don't think they give a rats behind for the people of Rubi-Ka itself. If this we're to be any other planet without the resources that it has Omni-Tek would have abandoned it leaving everyone here to die in my opinion.
    My title Keeper. My mind on my grind. Assembly's my heart. They shine when I shine.

    Kyarash "Legaron" Davoudi
    Keeper of Assembly

    "Seen through human experience there are as many worlds as there are humans. Understanding that the word "human" defines a point in eternity and not a seperate reality is the begining of knowing"

  7. #87
    Legaron, your point about people trying to render assistance only to find themselves fired upon by the very people they're trying to assist is not solely a problem for us clanners, I've come across ommers that have experienced the same thing.. As I have said before, it's an unfortunate side to humanity - we suffer a great sorrow and then we throw reason to the wind and allow outrselves to be blinded by senseless hate.
    It has happend before and, if we survive this attempted invasion, then it will happen again. It is one of the many unfortunate outcomes of war.

    As for the absence of assistance from the rest of humanity - I think that someone has been keeping the worst news from going beyond the planet. Quite simply, I do not for one second believe that all the people dependant on notum would allow this planet to fall if they knew of our plight. Although I concede that maybe I think this way because I am a soldier and as such I myself would be clamouring for the opportunity to assist those in distress, were the tables turned.
    As you say, any other planet and OT would have left at the first hint of trouble - but by the same token, this planet is one of the most valuale they have and perhaps some bureaucrat in his/her ivory tower has decided to not let offworlders on to the planet, for fear that they would be somewhat disenclined to leave peacefully after defeating the Aliens, and thereby actually putting all of us in almost insurmountable peril..
    This might very well change once ICC starts to get reports from their ship commanders that we're under heavy attack here. Unless, of course, we're just one planet under attack at this time, in which case other planets might be harder pushed than we are at the moment. Time will tell, I guess. It has a habit of doing that, if one is around to listen to what it has to say..
    Tempus fugit.

    Everybody has a photographic memory.
    Some don't have film.

    When you find a big kettle of crazy it's best not to stir it.
    -PHB/Scott Adams

  8. #88
    You might be right. That still doesn't change my feelings on going to the outzones tho.
    From what I know the Aliens have baricaded the planet in an atempt to try and keep us in here and let noone in. They attack every vessel coming in or going out so I'm not sure if I'm right by saying that there isn't anyone trying to help us out.
    But I do hope that behind the baricades there is some people attacking their spaceships to get to us.

    As you say..time will tell.
    My title Keeper. My mind on my grind. Assembly's my heart. They shine when I shine.

    Kyarash "Legaron" Davoudi
    Keeper of Assembly

    "Seen through human experience there are as many worlds as there are humans. Understanding that the word "human" defines a point in eternity and not a seperate reality is the begining of knowing"

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Legaron
    You might be right. That still doesn't change my feelings on going to the outzones tho.
    Hehe, I agree. While I'll go far to help people in distress, I'll not commit suicide doing so. Not that I put that much store in my life, I just want my eventual death to have a meaning.

    And I think that people are trying to bust in through the blockade - we have their notum, y'know
    Tempus fugit.

    Everybody has a photographic memory.
    Some don't have film.

    When you find a big kettle of crazy it's best not to stir it.
    -PHB/Scott Adams

  10. #90
    Granted, the Aliens are A threat....but they are not THE threat. The Rebel parasites that have affixed themselves to the body of Omni-Tek are. The Aliens will be dealt with in good time. You ask, "Why wont Omnis help us?". Because, you fool, every Clan city taken by the Aliens is one more I wont have to burn. Until the the profit line of Omni-Tek is no longer short-changed by the Rebel Factions, the War will continue. I have spoken to Clan members, and, (the ones that could still speak), have recieved the same message from them all. That THEY will be in charge, that THEY will be in power.....*shakes head sadly*....I'm sorry to say that this will not be allowed to happen. Why should Omni-Tek spend Billions of credits to overwhelm the Clans? When, already, there is dissention in the Clan ranks....already there have been political assassinations between Clan factions. All Omni-Tek has to do, is keep the Clans bottled up and wait for them to eat one another.

    Am I giving you valuable Military information? No, any babe knows this to be true. Until Clan Notum Towers no longer steal from the Omni-tek profit margin, this war will continue. For all the "freedom" speeches heard from the Clan leadership....would they be willing to STOP mining the Notum??? This war is not about "freedom", this war is about Notum. And this War will be your deaths.....


    Lawdog80
    Omni-Tek Intern Ops
    Chief Warrant/2nd FILO Pathfinders
    Last edited by FILO_Lawdog; Mar 25th, 2005 at 08:36:27.

  11. #91
    *cough*teK*cough
    Like a stealth ninja polarbear, I slip silently into the night.

  12. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by FILO_Lawdog
    Granted, the Aliens are A threat....but they are not THE threat. The Rebel parasites that have affixed themselves to the body of Omni-Tec are. The Aliens will be dealt with in good time. You ask, "Why wont Omnis help us?". Because, you fool, every Clan city taken by the Aliens is one more I wont have to burn. Until the the profit line of Omni-Tec is no longer short-changed by the Rebel Factions, the War will continue. I have spoken to Clan members, and, (the ones that could still speak), have recieved the same message from them all. That THEY will be in charge, that THEY will be in power.....*shakes head sadly*....I'm sorry to say that this will not be allowed to happen. Why should Omni-Tec spend Billions of credits to overwhelm the Clans? When, already, there is dissention in the Clan ranks....already there have been political assassinations between Clan factions. All Omni-Tec has to do, is keep the Clans bottled up and wait for them to eat one another.

    Am I giving you valuable Military information? No, any babe knows this to be true. Until Clan Notum Towers no longer steal from the Omni-tec profit margin, this war will continue. For all the "freedom" speeches heard from the Clan leadership....would they be willing to STOP mining the Notum??? This war is not about "freedom", this war is about Notum. And this War will be your deaths.....


    Lawdog80
    Omni-Tec Intern Ops
    Chief Warrant/2nd FILO Pathfinders
    You should take a close look at the Land Control Status, I see a lot of red on Rubi-Ka...hmmm...Keep us bottled up eh? *chuckles*
    My title Keeper. My mind on my grind. Assembly's my heart. They shine when I shine.

    Kyarash "Legaron" Davoudi
    Keeper of Assembly

    "Seen through human experience there are as many worlds as there are humans. Understanding that the word "human" defines a point in eternity and not a seperate reality is the begining of knowing"

  13. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by FILO_Lawdog
    Because, you fool, every Clan city taken by the Aliens is one more I wont have to burn.
    So either you're saying that OT controls the aliens or you're too stuck on fighting clans to realize what's going on.
    And, frankly, my creds are on the second option.
    You see, the aliens are also attacking OT installations, so OT can't really be controlling those vermin - or the dissent you speak of must also exist inside OT, and that in a much worse way than amongst the clans.

    In other words: get your head out of the clouds and realize that unless we beat these invading creeps we are all doomed and it will be far easier to beat them if we join forces for now and postpone our other differencies.

    And one thing, that might interest your financial department: a city taken from clans by OT is far less damaged than one taken by aliens - so you're actually costing OT money with your attitude. Somewhat against your "Until the the profit line of Omni-Tek is no longer short-changed" claim, wouldn't you say?
    Tempus fugit.

    Everybody has a photographic memory.
    Some don't have film.

    When you find a big kettle of crazy it's best not to stir it.
    -PHB/Scott Adams

  14. #94
    Allright, I am willing to discuss this with you. Keep in mind that I am fresh on this world, and may have not been fully briefed on the entire Political situation. [read: lvl 77 NOOB....but, hey, i'm tryin...lol] To my knowledge, OT is not controlling the Aliens. That they were would not suprise me, given some of the higher echelon decisions I've seen, but to my knowledge, the Aliens are operating autonomously.

    The cities at risk from the Aliens ARE expensive to rebuild, but, they are not where the profit loss lies. The profit loss to Omni-Tek lies in the notum being stolen by the Clans. I admit that the production loss to Alien attacks on OT cities IS annoying, and the Aliens will be dealt with. But the biggest loss to OT is the Notum that is being illegaly mined from the planet. Why was this planet colonized? Certainly not for its redeeming agricultral values.Then maybe its friendly animal life? Not from what I have seen. No, the ONLY reason this world is the center of the political arena, is the Notum source. Notum, not freedom, is what this war is about.

    The Land Control Status Board. Yes, I have studied this....very closely. Unfortunately, I am a mere Line Trooper, and am not often asked for my opinion in Theater decisions. I have seen the back and forth of the Tower wars, even having a hand in 1 or 2 myself. Clan Towers being destroyed, only to have an OT tower destroyed in retaliation. Hmmmmmm.....if OT would only give us more Troops.......No, I will not discuss specific Military issues with you, *smiles grimly*...you understand, I'm sure.

    With the Clans and OT both fighting on two fronts, this conflict will continue indefinitely. With the continued resistance from the Clans and the reluctance to escalate the theater by OT, this operation will be costly in blood and lives. I am a Professional, War is my Trade. I have seen the cost to the innocent, (yes, I DO believe in innocence), and I will avoid this when I can. I have no room in my heart for hate...I do not hate the Clans. BUT...I will follow the Mission guidelines given to my unit.

    "The Enemy of My Enemy is MY Friend".....Well, lets consider that. In theory, OT and Clan agree to cease the conflict. AND respond to assist in defending cities mutually. There is an amount of trust needed that I dont think would be possible. If such an agreement were to be made between OT Officials and Clan leadership, I would welcome aid from a Clan element in defending a city. Just as I would lead my Team in defending Clan cities. I say to you...Ask Gen. Steelyglint of the Black Company, (on whom I've just recieved a dossier....hmmmm...), what will happen when I and my Team successfully aid in defending HIS city. When our defenses are down, weapons depleted? I think you know.....
    Last edited by FILO_Lawdog; Mar 25th, 2005 at 07:59:55.
    Gunfytr 220/30/70 Soldier Lawdog80 220/30/70 Advy
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Because we said so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    I am unamused. I strongly suggest you don't unamuse me further
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    This nano blocks CH. This is intended.

  15. #95
    "There is No one More Dangerous than the Truly Rightous".......there are too many personal Agendas going on for an effective combined action. Too many willing to trade lives for Ideals....mark my words, beware of a "True Believer".....these beings that operate for "the good of all"....fanatics of this ilk will be your downfall.

    I must go. My troops are mustering for a Patrol....I hope not to see you soon.....
    Last edited by FILO_Lawdog; Mar 25th, 2005 at 08:15:25.
    Gunfytr 220/30/70 Soldier Lawdog80 220/30/70 Advy
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Because we said so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    I am unamused. I strongly suggest you don't unamuse me further
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    This nano blocks CH. This is intended.

  16. #96
    [[I meant no offense ]]

    Lawdog, even if you have been here only a short while I sense that you have seen enough in other places to make an accurate assessment of this place.
    And for the record, I do not believe that any of us is controlling the aliens. I merely tried to make you think about what you have been told in combination with what you see. As one soldier to another, if we don't think we're much more likely to get killed by a threat that we could have prepared for - and war is dangerous enough as it is.
    The hate and distrust - yes, it is here, unfortunately, and more than once have a minority hindered a combined response to oust the aliens, and even before that have they hindered peacetalks, blinded by their emotions. I do not necessarily fault them for feeling like they do, grief can do that to a person. The people that utilize these people in some powergame is another matter - but as you and I are both frontline troopers neither of us will be likely to meet those leaders.

    This might sound strange, given our separate affiliation, but - be careful out there, Lawdog. Remember, you have two assignments: the one given to your unit and getting back home alive.
    Tempus fugit.

    Everybody has a photographic memory.
    Some don't have film.

    When you find a big kettle of crazy it's best not to stir it.
    -PHB/Scott Adams

  17. #97
    [none taken...i luv this ****]

    Agreed.....under different circumstances......*sigh*.......But, who knows what the tides of war will bring. It is good to be able to respect your adversary....War SHOULD be left to the Profesionals.
    Gunfytr 220/30/70 Soldier Lawdog80 220/30/70 Advy
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Because we said so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    I am unamused. I strongly suggest you don't unamuse me further
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    This nano blocks CH. This is intended.

  18. #98
    As a warior I have respect for the one facing me in the heat of the battle. As I know that person is equal to me for trying to fight against me face to face and is also risking his life for his or her beliefs just as I am.
    But I do not have any respect for the Corporation at all. None. So if your beliefs are fighting the Clans because the Corporation tells you. If I see you out there. If we face eachother and battle. Bear in mind that I do have respect for you, but not for the reason you fight me.
    A lot of assumptions are made. Specially on me and my Clan Assembly.

    I ask you. Is it a crime to fight for what is mine?
    My title Keeper. My mind on my grind. Assembly's my heart. They shine when I shine.

    Kyarash "Legaron" Davoudi
    Keeper of Assembly

    "Seen through human experience there are as many worlds as there are humans. Understanding that the word "human" defines a point in eternity and not a seperate reality is the begining of knowing"

  19. #99
    Legaron, i understand your view....but I do not agree. Be patient with me, and I will explain mine. Say you own a large farm, many hectares, [or watever they use here...]. Your crops feed many people...these people depend on you to help feed them. You also employ many workers to tend and harvest these crops. One day, some of your workers become disheartened in the way you run your farm. They decide to "annex" part of your land to raise their own crops.....not allowing you to meet your supply demands to the people who depend upon you for food. You attempt to regain control of the land that you rightfully own....but are met with lethal force. What do you do?

    Do you not understand? It is not your way of life...it is not your cities or your society.....it is the NOTUM. OT MUST meet its suppliers demands.....the Notum is more precious than food or water.....more precious than....life. *gets up, begins pacing the room*.....WHY?? WHY dont you understand?? If the Clans dont STOP the mining, we will be forced to kill you all!*visably attempts to calm himself*.......*forced laugh*.....hah....I'm sorry, my friends.....Above all I hate stupidity and waste. And since I've come here...I've seen ample supplies of both....on BOTH sides of this conflict.

    The aliens?...They are a very minor annoyance compared to OT losing control of Rubi-Ka due to unmet demands.....I have seen how other corporations react to situations like this.....I have assisted in rescue efforts to dig the survivors out of the glassed over cities......I understand Notum is not effected by Gamma radiation....I hope you never have to learn the hard way(reference to nuclear type warheads).

    I am a Veteran Intern Ops Operative. I have seen and done things that would make you run screaming from the room. I am not proud of some of the things I have done, but these things were ALWAYS done in the pursuit of justice. Not "company" justice, but simple justice. You are creatures of war....you understand when I say that "past the wire", its just us. We have an unofficial saying....a very quiet saying, that goes..."Company Policy stops at the perimeter". I will do what I must to complete my mission, and keep my Troops safe. OT is not the monster you believe it to be.....I have heard of this "ICC Conspiracy" Theory. We laughed ourselves sick the first we heard of it. I have served alongside ICC "Peacekeepers"....Thugs, all of them....thugs and barbarians. No class or style at all.....Only good for "bully" work. In short PERFECT for this kind of operation. Beware of them.

    My friends....think about what we have spoken here....talk to your leadership.....some thing must be done....I would sorely regret seeing your name and tag above the sights of my BBIs....But....we are Professionals....the loser will understand....and the winner will be sad.
    Gunfytr 220/30/70 Soldier Lawdog80 220/30/70 Advy
    Quote Originally Posted by Kintaii View Post
    Because we said so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Anarrina View Post
    I am unamused. I strongly suggest you don't unamuse me further
    Quote Originally Posted by Means View Post
    This nano blocks CH. This is intended.

  20. #100
    Hmm.. I'm not part of the clan mining operation, but I understood that OT controls the only way of getting the stuff off-world and that the clans therefore had to sell their notum to OT - through dubious channels, no doubt, according to company politics. (Policies on both sides of the deal, that is.)
    Whatever that may be, we're still fighting each other out here in the desert and the mountains and the muddy marshes..

    As for the battle field. Yes, my friend, I know it only too well. I was created here on Rubi-Ka and have known no other planet, but this war is as fierce as they come - according to my instructors, who originally were off-worlders. They took good care that we all learn about previous wars and other worlds, that we may be better able to act wisely in the heat of battle.

    And judging from the people that I've met on my travels I agree with you, there is a great difference between fighting troops and occupation units. We from the frontline have a great discipline that they lack, we (usually) behave correctly - although this rule certainly has exceptions, again this is nothing new, it has been that way for ever (or as far back as memory goes.)

    Yes, if ever we face each other across the battle line, then one of us will be the victor and the other will be missed.. there are so few of us who really understand the real terror of battle, so few who still has honor.
    One day, perhaps, we will meet under more peaceful circumstances. Or we will end up like so many before us, a statistic on some page, duly annotated by some deskbound office clerk. It is our world and our way of life that it must be so - and only those who are like us will understand that.
    Tempus fugit.

    Everybody has a photographic memory.
    Some don't have film.

    When you find a big kettle of crazy it's best not to stir it.
    -PHB/Scott Adams

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