Hey look its the Athens Accords! Friends of peace, or usurping dictators?

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by Luxxan


With rules like that it's perfectly understandable how all of this happens. I honestly don't know if Crazypostman was fired upon or not, because there was relative chaos near the speech platform, but I do know that he proceeded to beat down all clan people within his immediate area soon after the initial attacks.

I'm not sure what kind of outdated NCU you people are using, but as far as I knew, standard issue NCU makes it quite obvious who the person attacking you is, so there is never any doubt who the actual aggressor was. Not to mention that obvious visual cues should tip him off. The fact that I, and most other clan delegates, were still sitting, unarmed, waiting for the violence to abate, should have been a good indication that we weren't the aggressors. Or, at the least, after he had attacked us, and we only attempted to flee, that too should have clued him in.




If you admit that you're likely to have problems with members, then why are you so adamantly refusing to admit there may have been a problem with this one? If you had handled this properly from the beginning, gotten the facts from whatever sources you trusted, and taken action on the members responsible as quickly as possible, the respect afforded to your guild would have increased as opposed to the massive decrease in respectability you are now suffering.

First off, if a clan member is attacking ANYTHING within Omni territory, that is a lease to remove ALL clan element within the area with excessive force.

We defend Mr. Ross and any threat that is immediatly present. Crazypostman was doing his patriotic duty IF he was fired upon first. OR if he witnessed ONE clan member making any offensive move.

We have targeted the rebels that would see this Amnesty fail quite some time ago.



What sort of actions would you have me take?.. Let me ask you?


What if the actual event YOU where presented with was so sorted you couldn't get the same story twice?

What then?

If I hold internal trials. If I hold internal probes, all will lead to NOTHING.

What I require is a solid account of what happened. And the public AND the press is not supplying me with this.

I might remind you that I was not present for ANY of these activities. I left the zone in disgust when the gunfire broke out. As it is our standpoint to see this Amnesty work.

I might also remind you, it will do very little for me to punish my members internally untill I have solid PROOF it was a certain person, or certain person(s)

Untill then, I must do my job as a leader, and support my guild as if everyone was completely innocent.

Innocent untill proven guilty.


I am not casting doubt on the fact First Order had members present. And I'm not casting doubt that First Order had members participating in SOME kind of gunfire. The reasoning for the gunfire is a MYSTERY to myself, and obviously you.

Please recognize that.


What you have to realize, is I will NOT run rampant through my guild and punish people haphazardly. Instead I require solid PROOF of what actually happened, as my eyes did not witness ANYTHING.

The only thing I witnessed, was Dark Carnival taking two shots at Snarf before anything had happened, at which point I instructed my members to remove me from the area should anything else erupt.

Which they did. I even announced my disgust, and the fact I was leaving.

Check your logs.


Please ALSO keep in mind, for several weeks beforehand we had a planned event to join FORCES with the clan the day after this happened.

The raid on the Cyborg Barracks took place at 19:00hrs EST. We joined forces with clan members in Tir, and took the Cyborg Barracks together.

Together... working towards defeating a common enemy.


First Order's interests are simply Mr. Ross's interests. And as such, if a member of First Order is found to be breaking said interests, that member will be punished by either Mr. Ross. Or ourselves internally.


And I assure you our punishements internally are more then adequate.


So please halt your accusations before you know the entire story.


And as well as that, please keep in mind this "conference" .. where the "crowd" was to pose the questions was a SETUP.

Check your logs.


The line of questioning from the TAG reporter was not from the crowd. As the questions came far too quickly, the answers came far too quickly, all material was unfounded... and designed to damage us.


So you might ask yourself this.


What part does TAG play in our Amnesty? .. To help us?


Or to hurt us.

[______________Luxxan]

First off, if a clan member is attacking ANYTHING within Omni territory, that is a lease to remove ALL clan element within the area with excessive force.

We defend Mr. Ross and any threat that is immediatly present. Crazypostman was doing his patriotic duty IF he was fired upon first. OR if he witnessed ONE clan member making any offensive move.

So ultimately, you can exterminate an entire crowd of peaceful clan members as long as one of your members claims he was fired upon. That single, unconfirmable claim, and your entire guild can then mow down a group of innocents.

If that's your policy, then there's nothing left to argue. It's clear what happened falls completely in line with your guild policy. I will make a point of no longer attending any gatherings in political areas if your guild is present unless I expect to be killed and I will make the same recommendation to my fellow leaders. I cannot, however, guarantee they will not see this as an "aggressive" policy by your guild toward any clan members, which puts you on the list of aggressors such as the TBA and others who are considered by many clans as Kill On Sight for self-defense.

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by Luxxan


So ultimately, you can exterminate an entire crowd of peaceful clan members as long as one of your members claims he was fired upon. That single, unconfirmable claim, and your entire guild can then mow down a group of innocents.

If that's your policy, then there's nothing left to argue. It's clear what happened falls completely in line with your guild policy. I will make a point of no longer attending any gatherings in political areas if your guild is present unless I expect to be killed and I will make the same recommendation to my fellow leaders. I cannot, however, guarantee they will not see this as an "aggressive" policy by your guild toward any clan members, which puts you on the list of aggressors such as the TBA and others who are considered by many clans as Kill On Sight for self-defense.

An order to Amnesty is not an order to die. Look up the definition.

We have a right to defend ourselves.

And we have NO way of establishing which clan members are at fault.. and which are not.

Our members are under strict orders NOT to fire unless fired upon. And as I've already stated, we will support that.

I will not ask my members to die because a few clan jerks decide to start shooting.

We are protectors of Omni, and we are protectors of Mr. Ross.

And we work hand in hand with anyone that feels the same. We also work hand in hand with any clan org that observes the Amnesty.

Clan orgs that do not observe the Amnesty however.....


Will Die.


However, we will not offensivly strike these forces. They will come to us, and the minute we find them attacking us on our soil, we WILL retaliate.

An amnesty is not an order to give up property that is already Omni.

Omni-HQ is definatly Omni.

[________________mege]

First of all... the small OT leaders rally this past weekend was not a waste in my mind - I think that it stuck that we need unity. It was your choice to leave Windowlicker, I wish you would have stayed

Second, there have been very few cases where an OMNI-Tek citizen has raided clan territorys in the past few months. There are clan raids on 2HO daily. A good friend of mine has been almost single handedly, and gracefully, squashing any attempts of an invasion (I am sure that many of you ruthless clanners have sent him hate /tells by now). It's just too bad that he was off planet at the time of the Portman-rally invasion. With that said... the presumption of who-is-attacking-who generally falls on the clans. They're the agressors in this situation. 2HO is an OMNI-Tek instalation, and unauthorized rebel on the premisis should be destroyed immediately. Nowhere in Amnesty or Ceasefire is the words "sharing military instalations." It's just not done.

DAV however, provides a unique situation. I have met clanners there, approached them - and we've coincided there peacefully, in fact created groups of mixed alignment and gone there. If someone goes there with malintent that's their problem. If anyone harms me or any other MOTHER hunting in DAV. I will personally issue a KOS order for the people that felt like killing peaceful hunters. This should go unsaid... but I said it. We haven't been in a DAV incident yet, and I hope we're not.

Lastly... Windowlicker & Eleetist - you are both OMNI-Tek employees working towards the same goal, but approaching it differently. Luxxan, put up or get out - if you're not going to join OMNI-Tek, then leave the planet.

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by mege
First of all... the small OT leaders rally this past weekend was not a waste in my mind - I think that it stuck that we need unity. It was your choice to leave Windowlicker, I wish you would have stayed

Second, there have been very few cases where an OMNI-Tek citizen has raided clan territorys in the past few months. There are clan raids on 2HO daily. A good friend of mine has been almost single handedly, and gracefully, squashing any attempts of an invasion (I am sure that many of you ruthless clanners have sent him hate /tells by now). It's just too bad that he was off planet at the time of the Portman-rally invasion. With that said... the presumption of who-is-attacking-who generally falls on the clans. They're the agressors in this situation. 2HO is an OMNI-Tek instalation, and unauthorized rebel on the premisis should be destroyed immediately. Nowhere in Amnesty or Ceasefire is the words "sharing military instalations." It's just not done.

DAV however, provides a unique situation. I have met clanners there, approached them - and we've coincided there peacefully, in fact created groups of mixed alignment and gone there. If someone goes there with malintent that's their problem. If anyone harms me or any other MOTHER hunting in DAV. I will personally issue a KOS order for the people that felt like killing peaceful hunters. This should go unsaid... but I said it. We haven't been in a DAV incident yet, and I hope we're not.

Lastly... Windowlicker & Eleetist - you are both OMNI-Tek employees working towards the same goal, but approaching it differently. Luxxan, put up or get out - if you're not going to join OMNI-Tek, then leave the planet.

I honesty would have loved to stay, and under normal circumstances I would have. However in that smaller meetings case, I was being hit with a barrage of /tells involving Friday nights happenings.

We wanted to show our support for Omni, and attend.. however the only issue we had .. was that major Omni guilds where not represented.

If that meeting occurs again, and each faction in turn is invited. We would be very happy to attend.

We can't discriminate between orgs based on diffrent interperatations of the same order.

We have to find a common ground, and work with that idea in mind.

To do this, I don't think we need an agreement... what I do think, is that we need a secure(nonpvp) meeting spot where all partys will attend.

And at this meeting.


The only way we are going to organize ourselves, frankly is by NOT voicing opinions based on policy.

What we need to do, is lay the issues at hand down on the table. Look at direct orders. Establish a common enemy. And work together to eliminate that enemy.


For now, First Order regards the Cyborgs to be our main threat.

[________________mege]

Well put Windowlicker

Without complete representation, no decisions can be made on a clear mind.

[____________eleetist]

I equally agree we need all represented... my only concern I brought up was that we need all to be represented and civilized. From what I've heard about Faction Leader Chat and what I have seen on these boards... we may find it a waste of time if meetings turn into squabbles among leaders that dislike each other.... i.e. CaptFallout and both Truwind and Azazzel or truwind and Barzilli(sp?)... Mege, you brought up the most important point of the meeting... OMNI NEEDS TO UNITE and I and my guild are all for that. Uniting also includes the sharing of information about possible policy problems... i.e. me sharing with windowlicker about crazypostman although I think I made a bad choice by not using private tells, except in the sense that he initially blew me off...but I really did it in defense of CaptFallouts attacks on DC... not because I like DC, but I think Capt will do anything he possibly can to see every DC member have their Anarchy accounts terminated. I initially thought the attacks would've been DC too... and kept targetting aggressors to see if DC was among the group... I heard Resta was involved, but as I said that is hearsay, I never targetted Resta nor saw any DC members among all the people I targetting... although after Snarf was attacked It seemed like most I targetted were clan aggressors.

Anyways... I like your ideas of getting a meeting of the minds of all Omni-Guilds... no exclusion... However what is your stance on any omni-guild that has another omni-guild KOS?

General Eleetist
DARC Ops

[________________mege]

They need to drop personal squables for the good of OMNI-Tek... flaming and ridiculing will only alienate themselves. We need to speak politic free, and work to get OMNI-Tek factions to work as ONE.

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by eleetist
I equally agree we need all represented... my only concern I brought up was that we need all to be represented and civilized. From what I've heard about Faction Leader Chat and what I have seen on these boards... we may find it a waste of time if meetings turn into squabbles among leaders that dislike each other.... i.e. CaptFallout and both Truwind and Azazzel or truwind and Barzilli(sp?)... Mege, you brought up the most important point of the meeting... OMNI NEEDS TO UNITE and I and my guild are all for that. Uniting also includes the sharing of information about possible policy problems... i.e. me sharing with windowlicker about crazypostman although I think I made a bad choice by not using private tells, except in the sense that he initially blew me off...but I really did it in defense of CaptFallouts attacks on DC... not because I like DC, but I think Capt will do anything he possibly can to see every DC member have their Anarchy accounts terminated. I initially thought the attacks would've been DC too... and kept targetting aggressors to see if DC was among the group... I heard Resta was involved, but as I said that is hearsay, I never targetted Resta nor saw any DC members among all the people I targetting... although after Snarf was attacked It seemed like most I targetted were clan aggressors.

Anyways... I like your ideas of getting a meeting of the minds of all Omni-Guilds... no exclusion... However what is your stance on any omni-guild that has another omni-guild KOS?

General Eleetist
DARC Ops

Putting First Order's political "issues" aside for a minute, as I assure you we are dealing with them.....


Our stance towards an Omni-Guild that has another Omni-Guild KOS, to frankly just stay out of it.

Our job is not to "babysit" these people, and frankly if they have a spat, it's not our job to ref them either.

That's Mr. Ross's job.


Our long standing policy has been to attend, and help any and all Omni factions as long as what they are doing falls perfectly in line with what we have been ordered.

We won't attend events that would classify as what we would see as non-omni-supported events.

[______________Windie]

1) its funny how no amount of evidence is enough for mr. Window. apparently testimony, some from trained observers (read reporters) just isn't good enough. Not that it matters tho... everyone knows, and you're paying the price in the court of public opinion.

2) If the Clan leaders were the way the Omni faction leaders are I think I'd give up and quit. It was amusing yet sad to see you all fighting at the various meetings last weekend. I guess truwind was right in saying that Omnis greatest enemy is omni. We have our jerks, but most of our REAL hate is reserved for the irritating omni leaders (you really should check those promotion practices)

oh yeah, Resta WAS involved, albiet maybe accidentally 'Had a key stuck', is a stupid thing to say tho... 'hit the wrong key' might be better.

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by Windie
1) its funny how no amount of evidence is enough for mr. Window. apparently testimony, some from trained observers (read reporters) just isn't good enough. Not that it matters tho... everyone knows, and you're paying the price in the court of public opinion.

2) If the Clan leaders were the way the Omni faction leaders are I think I'd give up and quit. It was amusing yet sad to see you all fighting at the various meetings last weekend. I guess truwind was right in saying that Omnis greatest enemy is omni. We have our jerks, but most of our REAL hate is reserved for the irritating omni leaders (you really should check those promotion practices)

oh yeah, Resta WAS involved, albiet maybe accidentally 'Had a key stuck', is a stupid thing to say tho... 'hit the wrong key' might be better.

Actually Mrs. Freakout.

The clans never supplied ME with any of this information.

And as I don't have YOUR leaderchat, I have no way of aquiring it.


I assure you the higher ranks of our org are VERY upstanding, and follow Mr. Ross to the fullest.

We obey every direct order issued to us, and if our members violate OUR law, we will punish them.

As for you.


You have not supplied me with ONE piece of evidence untill JUST after you posted this message.


So you should watch what you say.


Your dealing with a loyal guild that belongs to Omni. And unless you fall into the catagory of someone who would see this Amnesty fail, we should not have reason for insults.


Your Snarf has released literature that has basicly threatened our entire company, and our entire existance.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...?threadid=2053


Your Snarf is a known criminal, and his words have echo'd in the ears of every Omni-Tek employee.

You cannot EXPECT, all omni members to not kill what they may see as an immediate threat. Especially if THAT DAY they had been killed by Snarf. I'm not speaking of our members. I'm speaking of EVERY guild that shares the Omni name. Any Omni member that has come anywhere near DAV.

WE ARE ANGRY. We want Snarfs ass run up a flagpole, but we can't do ANYTHING about it.


Why?

Because we have been ordered to an Amnesty.

And for that reason I came to that conference in GOOD faith. Holding neither pistol in-hand and bearing nothing but good intentions.

What was I faced with?


A barrage of accusations founded on NOTHING via the TAG reporter... A Dark Carnival member shooting at someone ... then us getting BLAMED for killing him.


Pfffffffffffft.


You clan folk are too much for me.


You preach hate and demand peace.

[______________Windie]

I seem to have gotten you mad. my point again... me seeing your people kill us was enough evidence for me, and for everone else but you... now we just see if this goes around in circles.

sidenote, calling 'windowlicker' Mr. Window is a far cry from calling 'Windie" Ms. Freakout. but just a note.

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by Windie
I seem to have gotten you mad. my point again... me seeing your people kill us was enough evidence for me, and for everone else but you... now we just see if this goes around in circles.

sidenote, calling 'windowlicker' Mr. Window is a far cry from calling 'Windie" Ms. Freakout. but just a note.

Well when I show up somewhere looking for peace, and obeying my orders as I SHOULD be doing.

And I meet THIS. It makes me wonder why I even try.


The situation is very simple. We do not waver from orders given by Mr. Ross. We obey Omni.

I'm angry at the fact a clanner is trying to prove me guilty of killing someone half the planet wants a piece of.


I'll repeat this quote for you out of Snarf's little "Hate mongering" thread where he admits to wanting to commit genocide on us.


"and no matter where you will be DC will own you =) "


Last time I checked we arn't DC.


You should look up the abbreviation for FIRST ORDER.

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by Ymodem-G


Actually Mrs. Freakout.

The clans never supplied ME with any of this information.

And as I don't have YOUR leaderchat, I have no way of aquiring it.

I assure you the higher ranks of our org are VERY upstanding, and follow Mr. Ross to the fullest.

We obey every direct order issued to us, and if our members violate OUR law, we will punish them.

As for you.

You have not supplied me with ONE piece of evidence untill JUST after you posted this message.

So you should watch what you say.

Your dealing with a loyal guild that belongs to Omni. And unless you fall into the catagory of someone who would see this Amnesty fail, we should not have reason for insults.

Your Snarf has released literature that has basicly threatened our entire company, and our entire existance.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...?threadid=2053

Your Snarf is a known criminal, and his words have echo'd in the ears of every Omni-Tek employee.

You cannot EXPECT, all omni members to not kill what they may see as an immediate threat. Especially if THAT DAY they had been killed by Snarf. I'm not speaking of our members. I'm speaking of EVERY guild that shares the Omni name. Any Omni member that has come anywhere near DAV.

WE ARE ANGRY. We want Snarfs ass run up a flagpole, but we can't do ANYTHING about it.

Why?

Because we have been ordered to an Amnesty.

And for that reason I came to that conference in GOOD faith. Holding neither pistol in-hand and bearing nothing but good intentions.

What was I faced with?

A barrage of accusations founded on NOTHING via the TAG reporter... A Dark Carnival member shooting at someone ... then us getting BLAMED for killing him.

Pfffffffffffft.

You clan folk are too much for me.

You preach hate and demand peace.

I'm not a clan leader and I am a loyal omni general... I brought these points up earlier, but I'll remind you that me being a witness was only good enough for Hearsay in your eyes.... And you blew me off... then TAG published similiar reports.... CaptFallout witnessed similar things... and a large number of clan leaders witnessed it too... While clans don't set omni law... they seem to have the impression that the amnesty was broken... a lot of witnesses seeing the same thing... some with logs reporting similiar events... seems to pretty compelling evidence. I was not aware that Resta was first to fire as I can't see other hit other... All I say was were the people I targetted and found out info on. I was compiling this info for the good of my guild... but if that were in fact true... DC would deserve to have punishment looked into as they are in trouble by omni-law if they break the amnesty again.

I want to see the amnesty work, as that is Phillip Ross's goal.... but events like the HQ attacks only help to weaken it... which is why something needed to be done or said to show that it was a rogue act and not the policies of OT.

I was kind of hoping you'd clear things up for everyone by providing some kind of evidence that explained why we saw what we saw... maybe someone showing how CrazyPostman was attacked first or something.

Well... didn't want to jump back in the argument, but I read three threads of it... so I felt compelled to say something

General Eleetist
DARC Ops

[Detonate]

This is getting a bit ridiculous... For a few reasons.

(1) We did not commit any crimes.
(2) The definition of Amnesty is listed as a government Pardon
(3) A pardon is a forgiveness for past crimes.
(4) Snarf's does not rate a pardon as he has never stopped executing Omni's at every opportunity. As a matter of fact I personally witnessed Snarf killing Omni's in DAV the other day. I myself was sent to the reclaim booth.

You want to put us on the stand, so be it. But I refuse to take part in any trial where the rogue clans are not sitting right next to me in the defense.

Otherwise, I suggest you all drop it.

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by eleetist


I'm not a clan leader and I am a loyal omni general... I brought these points up earlier, but I'll remind you that me being a witness was only good enough for Hearsay in your eyes.... And you blew me off... then TAG published similiar reports.... CaptFallout witnessed similar things... and a large number of clan leaders witnessed it too... While clans don't set omni law... they seem to have the impression that the amnesty was broken... a lot of witnesses seeing the same thing... some with logs reporting similiar events... seems to pretty compelling evidence. I was not aware that Resta was first to fire as I can't see other hit other... All I say was were the people I targetted and found out info on. I was compiling this info for the good of my guild... but if that were in fact true... DC would deserve to have punishment looked into as they are in trouble by omni-law if they break the amnesty again.

I want to see the amnesty work, as that is Phillip Ross's goal.... but events like the HQ attacks only help to weaken it... which is why something needed to be done or said to show that it was a rogue act and not the policies of OT.

I was kind of hoping you'd clear things up for everyone by providing some kind of evidence that explained why we saw what we saw... maybe someone showing how CrazyPostman was attacked first or something.

Well... didn't want to jump back in the argument, but I read three threads of it... so I felt compelled to say something

General Eleetist
DARC Ops

Listen, when I'm being told one thing one day .. and a totally diffrent thing the next, I start to ask questions .. and I get defensive.

We did NOT begin this fight that happened, although I'm not denying it's possible we took part once it started.

Anything is obviously possible, and what you ALL have to realize is as the leader of this guild I have responsibility's to the REST of the guild that shouldn't be included in this demographic.


What I'm trying to point out, was that this did NOT happen by way of a vote, I was NOT informed .. and I still untill this day, only know what happened on two screens.

Mine.

And Heroin.

Why Heroin you ask? ... We live together (/ooc)


As I've stated before, the only thing that will get our members shooting, is seeing clan members shoot.

In that confusion I don't see how you can expect me to come up with any supporting evidence.


What exactly do you expect me to do? ... Based on the the punishment of Dark Carnival in the attempted assasination of Radiman, And the punishment THEY where handed out....

Consider the fact Snarf is but a lowly leader.

No where near that calibre of death.


And also consider the fact, Radiman hasn't been personally out in DAV killing Omni members in cold blood.

Snarf has.


Let's face it, Snarf has enemies, but when I show up to a conference UNARMED. I'm not looking for a fight.

Especially when I've been nothing but pleasent to Snarfypoo. (Untill as of late of course)


Stop pointing fingers, get the accusations straight .. and make suggestions how I might PUNISH these members should they be found guilty.


If Aberic is still in Dark Carnival AFTER being found guilty. I honestly don't see why my members should be expelled for a LESSER crime... Which I might add they have NOT been convicted of.


So put in my position, what would you do?


Keeping in mind, they have given me a list that is certainly not 100 percent correct. Case in point Polgra and Heroin.


Polgra and Heroin simply could not do something like this, and speaking with them for a few minutes, or even meeting them would convince you of that.


My point being, I have been very busy in both my personal life, and with guild matters as of late.

And this was not a guild matter for us untill the past weekend.

I have been working very hard to organize the inner ranks of our guild, and so far things have been looking very good for us.


And our concentration has NOT been on war.


Our focal point has been on banking, and trade.


Knowing this, and knowing you've mentioned key people that have spent months working to forward Mr. Ross's wishes, and the orders of Omni...


How would YOU proceed?


They've named more people than attended. They start accusing one person, and finish accusing another.

If you don't recall, this began with everyone saying "Detonate" and now his name hasn't even been mentioned.

Why?

Because after they realized he left with me, it was pretty off the wall to think he could be in two places at once.


So, given the obvious angles, how might YOU suggest this be handled.

And using past convictions. Say, Truwind, Aberic and Dark Carnival.

Let me see, Aberic killed the Radiman clone.. thinking he was Radiman.


Dark Carnival was sentanced to paying a 25 million credit fine, a letter of apology, and not to attend any events for 2 months time.


1. The fine was paid.

2. The letter was written

3. They where at an event days later

4. Aberic wasn't out of the guild for 24 hours.



Keeping this in mind, should I find ANY of my members guilty, what would YOU suggest I do to punish them?


1. I don't think any of us have 25 million credits. And if this in fact did happen, it's no where near the calibre of attempted assasination of Radiman.

2. I'll be happy to write a letter apologizing to the party's involved, SHOULD my members be found primarily at fault.

3. If Aberic is still in Dark Carnival, my members will NOT be expelled from Omni. Nor this guild. Untill such a time as I see them disobey orders further. If *any* of those people are found guilty, you must understand that will be the FIRST problem we have EVER had with them.


Knowing this, what would *you* suggest?


Consider the fact I am in a bind either way.

Also consider the fact with the information supplied, and considering the sources, I cannot be hasty to convict *anyone* of any wrongdoing without fear of convicting someone who is innocent.

[dropcid]

Originally posted by Ymodem-G

If Aberic is still in Dark Carnival AFTER being found guilty. I honestly don't see why my members should be expelled for a LESSER crime... Which I might add they have NOT been convicted of.
4. Aberic wasn't out of the guild for 24 hours.

Well, we could plead "Nolo Contendere" and kick the offending members out for a few hours.



-D


/OOC P.S. For those of you who have never gotten American traffic tickets... You can plead guilty, not guilty, or "Nolo Contendere". Nolo Contendere means "I'm not guilty, but I'm not going to bother to fight it because it's just easier to pay the fine". There is no reason to plead "Guilty" to a traffic ticket, as "nolo contendere" carries the same fine anyway.

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by Dropcid


Well, we could plead "Nolo Contendere" and kick the offending members out for a few hours.



-D


/OOC P.S. For those of you who have never gotten American traffic tickets... You can plead guilty, not guilty, or "Nolo Contendere". Nolo Contendere means "I'm not guilty, but I'm not going to bother to fight it because it's just easier to pay the fine". There is no reason to plead "Guilty" to a traffic ticket, as "nolo contendere" carries the same fine anyway.

Well Dropcid, because this is irratating .. and comes at a bad time.. I am thinking about staging a trial, and inviting OMNI leaders to participate as judges.

This should sort things out nicely. They may use witness's from anywhere they wish.

./out of character

I will be leaving the country for Christmas around the 19th of December, so I must get this taken care of before that time.

I have a flight leaving to Doha, Qatar scheduled for then.. and will not be returning to Canada untill the 29th of December.

As you can see

I'm a tad busy in real life right now, so the ingame stuff must be taken care of with haste.

./in character


None the less, I will discuss this with my org.. and make a choice. It is my duty as the leader of First Order to establish if there IS fault.

And if there IS guilt.

And I will make use of the other Omni faction leaders to do this.


However.


You will excuse me if I exclude the clan. I am not completely convinced of their innocence as well. And after seeing first-hand the literature released by Snarf and his clan, well .. the people that support him verbally lose credability.

If they have broken Omni's rules, Omni's leaders will establish this.

And as the leader that oversee's these members, I will punish them if found guilty.

If found innocent, apology's will be issued to each guild member involved, as we have a SPOTLESS track record.


As this develops I will release details.

[Detonate]

Trial is a bad idea, and I'll refuse to participate for several reasons.

Everyone is jumping down First Orders back, yet no-one seems to mention any of the Amnesty violations committed by the clans, or the fact that Snarf and his group of griefers are hell bent on destroying both Omni, Clans, and Neutrals alike.

I refuse to stand trial OR put up with these comments being made towards our faction.

If you are looking for someone to hang, look amongst yourselves.

[dropcid]

Ok fine. We'll just assume Det is guilty, and kick him out of the guild for say... 4 hours? Is that enough?
Case closed.

-D