Hey look its the Athens Accords! Friends of peace, or usurping dictators?

[______________Windie]

Seeing a group with no formal authority 'taking' such police actions into their own hands always warms the heart. Has it occurred to any of you Athens Accords members that you have NO right to do such things?

The CoT for all its flaws is a duly appointed governing body, and I'm suprised omni doesn't hold the signing factions as treasonous.

To recap, peace under the heel of a dictatorial force and enforced by "Pain of Death" is as bad as Omni is, if not worse, trading one unjust nonrepresentitive ruler for another.

[_________CaptFallout]

While I support it's purpose, I feel that it extends beyond the boundaries of normal Omni-Tek organizations and extends into the realm of Omni-Admin.

I feel it is not our duty to extend ourself into making peace treaties, but to follow the amnesty and do it without needless bureaucracy such as this Athens Accord.

While all accusations of being "traitors" have been dropped (the people who were acting against the AA but still allowed to remain have since left) I do not support the AA in their diplomacy for the sole reason that I do not feel that such decisions are to be made by people such as ourselves.

[______________Quzjak]

I find the Athen Accord perfectly legitemate. For more reasons than one, primarily because neither the Cot nor or Omni-admin has really said anything aginst it. But you dont really have to worry, very few who actualy participated in it are upholding it.

But, I'm just a lowely neutral, what do I know?

[________________mege]

OMNI-Tek factions NEED to stick together. Forming alliances and pacts just alienate them from their true allegence to OMNI-Tek.

Strength will only come with complete unity... we have so much in common, now we just need to all get along.

[_________CaptFallout]

I do agree on that Mege.

Groups formed for the "better" of Omni-Tek are harming it by dividing loyal employees.

TBA on the other hand, acted traitorous to Omni-Tek and now claims "we love all Omni-Tek people".

Why are they still around if their goal is to rid the planet of clans, but now it has changed to "Follow Ross"? They have no purpose now, so why stay with them?

I don't feel we should stand allied as a whole, but just as a majority.

In this case, I feel we should alienate the traitors until Omni-Tek reacts as a company should. With pinkslips for the traitors and a pat on the back for those loyal to the company.

We don't need traitors, and it's about time Omni-Tek realizes that.

[___________MrTeatime]

Just wanted to add this about TBA and some comments on the AA;

Even though the original goal has been adjusted according to Omni-Tek policies TBA will not disband, since we feel there is still a place for us within Omni-Tek. Just think of us as a group of people who think in the same ways (some more radical than others, but that's how it is in large communities).

TBA may be the beginning of an extremely large guild, made up by smaller factions, or it might just be some remnant of our more troublesome past - only time will tell.

I haven't read the Athens Accord yet, but from what I understand it might infringe on some Omni-Admin territory. I don't know how Admin would react, but as long as the accord is helping Omni-Tek I can't see the harm. I do expect the members of the accord to follow Omni-Tek even if they have to terminate the agreement with the Clans, should it come to that.

TBA would most likely disband if we were ordered to do so by Omni-Tek, but we will not disband simply because others don't like how we act. Governing Omni-Tek Rubi-Ka is up to Chairman Ross, not misguided individuals who think it's their duty to "help" him run the planet. We obey, that is our duty.

[___________Chagidiel]

Mr Fallout:

It is not for us to "make the company react". TBA claims to have changed theire points of views, and now follow Mr Ross decion. Untill they state, act or OmniTek states otherwise, they are OmniTek. We are OmniTek. All is OmniTek, that is why we have OMni-Reform. Since a majority is not good enough.

Unity, Peace, Prosper, for OmniTek!

[_________CaptFallout]

I guess you are right, but past efforts to "trust" organizations to change haven't gone so well.

Remember that group of traitors The Dark Carnival? Didn't they write a letter to apologize but only a few days later they asisst the criminal Aberic to join them again (despite court orders against it) and efforts taken by them to ruin a peacful press conference?

Oh yes... they did.

So if words are so valuable to you, I feel you will be a very wealthy person with The Black Alliance and Dark Carnival lurking around and speaking in such "loyal" ways.

TBA serves no purpose now if they truly follow Omni-Tek's wishes, and that alone makes me continue to question their loyalty.

The Dark Carnival on the other hand, will be facing "worse" punishment in the following days for their actions at the TAG press conference and in asissting Aberic. Their second-chances are over, and now it is finally time for them to be forced in the hole that they have dug.

It sure is quite deep, I hope no one dies once they hit the bottom...

[________________mege]

I must emphasize that as Employees, albet some high ranking employees in the factions we represent, we have no place to judge the others - they are equals to us. As much as you do not want to think so CaptFallout, Truwind is an equal to you. Let OMNI-Reform do their job, you know they will. Promotions do not come to those who try and out-step their bounds...

Before that time, each of us need to do our part to make sure that OMNI-Tek sticks together - we have the opportunity to be more powerful than ever. Esspecially in the recent break up of the clans, as OMNI-Tek factions we must work at keeping ourselves together before we worry about the rest of the planet.

[____________eleetist]

Originally posted by mege
I must emphasize that as Employees, albet some high ranking employees in the factions we represent, we have no place to judge the others - they are equals to us. As much as you do not want to think so CaptFallout, Truwind is an equal to you. Let OMNI-Reform do their job, you know they will. Promotions do not come to those who try and out-step their bounds...

Before that time, each of us need to do our part to make sure that OMNI-Tek sticks together - we have the opportunity to be more powerful than ever. Esspecially in the recent break up of the clans, as OMNI-Tek factions we must work at keeping ourselves together before we worry about the rest of the planet.

Well stated Mege. We do in a way all already have an alliance... our allies SHOULD be other Omni-Tech employees and guilds... no... we don't need proof by signing pacts or writing accords. Guilds doing this are fairly publicly stating they don't trust other Omni-Guilds not asked to be included in the pact. While many employees don't trust some of the rogue actions of Dark Carnival at the moment. It is not our decision to outcast them. Of course you can speak your mind on the subject, but in the end it will be left up to Omni-Tech or a trial jury. Would you rather have them as your enemies or as your cohorts? (that was not directed at you capt, cause we know where you stand on that issue).

Strength comes in unity, unity comes with acceptance. Some guilds want to help bring about peaceful alternatives and some want to bring about violent alternatives to the clan insurections that occur. The key is that as long as guilds are supporting Ross and Omni-Tech... we should not be destructive to our unity by fighting and squabbling amongst ourselves. We basically agree to disagree in our viewpoints, but in a manner that is not destructive to OT... but words should be left behind if we are ever called to the battle field. Is it any different to think that OT made a bad decision with amnesty, than for you to openly express that they made a bad decision with the punishment of DC???? Not really... both instances you have a group expressing there viewpoint on a decision. You only run into a problem when someone crosses the line (i.e. if you make DC your enemy and every start an attack on them while they are OT... or someone defies the amnesty by leading a warlike attack in a political zone. )

I was at the TAG conference and afterwards joined many of the representatives there at baboons and in the words of Windie:
Start logging of "Vicinity" at 12/08/01 02:11:58
02:25: Truwind: DC didnt attack anyone in omni hq
02:25: Windie: Apparently the HQ attacks weren't DC
02:25: Windie: I'll find out who it was
02:26: Windie: it was First order...
02:26: Windie: I got it from Snarf himself, the attackee

Do we trust a clansman (they provided the info)??? I dunno, but I see you jumping on DC as the ones who attacked Snarf, but Snarf didn't see things the same as you.

I just thought i'd bring this info to light, since I was well aware of it, and you weren't there to hear it.


Just my 2 creds,
General Eleetist
DARC Ops

[________________mege]

It's not for me, fallout, you or any other normal employee to decide DC's or First Order's fate (if it were them). That's up to OMNI-Reform to decide. I think that a second trial against DC might be coming up soon, based on many actions - but the decision will be made there, not here - so lets wait for the facts and testimony. For now, we should all accept DC like any other despite their actions - they're our OMNI-Tek brothers and sisters, lets not push them away so fast.

I wasnt at the TAG event, but I don't trust those who denounce OMNI-Tek.

[Windowlicker]

We welcome an investigation.

In fact, if you read the logs I requested such a probe.


I should hope by now, everyone is familier enough with First Order and our policies to know exactly what we are all about.


Since day one, I have done nothing but strive for Unity among the Omni leaders.

And our prime goal, is to help Mr. Ross and the company we represent.

Many people are trying to break this Amnesty right now, and to be honest with you, Snarf is among them.

Snarf has been known to roam around DAV, and randomly kill Omni members in cold blood.

Cold Blood.

So why is it should First Order fear words coming from such a person? ... We shouldn't.

Our track record is spotless, and as is our reputation, untill now.


For all those present at the conference, and for all those that have seen the logs of the speech, I would ask that you take a look at the line of questioning set forth by the TAG reporters.


It appears TAG has an alternative agenda. One that would see First Order labled as traitors, and would destroy the name we have worked so LONG to preserve, and build.


We have attended meeting after meeting and shown nothing but support for all Omni guilds, regardless of orientation or internal policies.

Why?


Because our main goal is to follow orders issued by Mr. Philip Ross. If Mr. Ross orders us to Amnesty, then so be it.


You have never been given any indication why this would be elsewise.



We remain.



(Edit) - > /ooc Keep in mind, we held a public raid on the Cyborg Barracks the day AFTER this happened. Also keep in mind a Dark Carnival member shot Snarf twice before ANY of this happened. As well as that, keep in mind at our public raid on the Cyborg Barracks (Which was setup weeks earlyer) .. We had clan members attend and help us.

[____________eleetist]

I just thought I should mention that in addition to Snarf mentioning that First Order was responsible for the attack. I personally witnessed CrazyPostman kill at a minimum 5 neutrals or clansmen who were sitting at the time he attacked them. I targetted him and got his info... and it said he was First Order. So here is my questions. Why was he killing non-aggressive individuals at a peace conference? Do you plan on doing anything about this? And since everyone felt Truwind should be responsible for Aberic, should you, Windowlicker, be held responsible for Crazypostman and whoever else in your guild violated the amnesty?

I held great respect for your guild up until two incidents. One being the TAG conference. I witnessed your members involved in the slaughter. The second incidence was at the Omni-ECPCS meeting of loyal OT guilds where your three representatives /terminate to exit the meeting in the middle of the meeting. It was rather disruptive and came after your argument to include DC and TBA in the meetings.

General Eleetist
DARC Ops

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by eleetist
I just thought I should mention that in addition to Snarf mentioning that First Order was responsible for the attack. I personally witnessed CrazyPostman kill at a minimum 5 neutrals or clansmen who were sitting at the time he attacked them. I targetted him and got his info... and it said he was First Order. So here is my questions. Why was he killing non-aggressive individuals at a peace conference? Do you plan on doing anything about this? And since everyone felt Truwind should be responsible for Aberic, should you, Windowlicker, be held responsible for Crazypostman and whoever else in your guild violated the amnesty?

I held great respect for your guild up until two incidents. One being the TAG conference. I witnessed your members involved in the slaughter. The second incidence was at the Omni-ECPCS meeting of loyal OT guilds where your three representatives /terminate to exit the meeting in the middle of the meeting. It was rather disruptive and came after your argument to include DC and TBA in the meetings.

General Eleetist
DARC Ops

First off, let me say the only respect we desire is from Mr. Ross.


Secondly, let me tell you we all /terminated because that meeting was realisticly a waste of time.

How can you expect us to attend a meeting ... a meeting who's only purpose is to "unify" the leaders of Omni.... And you didn't invite half of the leaders?

How do you expect to unify the leaders when you exclude several specifically?

/terminate .... it wasn't a situation we felt we needed to attend.


Our support for Omni is unwavering, and I assure you if I was to find out one of our members commited a crime (Which they haven't) I would act on it appropriately.

Crazypostman is a General within our guild, and his long track-reccord of helping forward the Omni cause is not to be overlooked.


This is all hearsay, and I have not been provided with ONE bit of proof pertaining to anything we have been blamed for.


I was at this meeting, unarmed.

And what I saw was a much diffrent story.

As I have already told you, I was escorted out of the area the minute bullets started to fly.

Our members where on hand afterwards to deal with the clan members that returned to attack the omni members in retaliation.


We have made it quite clear from day 1, that we support this Amnesty in full. However an order to Amnesty is not an order to take a bullet.

Our members are under strict orders not to fire untill fired upon, and when they see their leader shot at, they will retaliate.


We where in an Omni controlled zone, and as such it is our duty to protect that zone from any and ALL attackers.

When the clan members returned and begun attacking people, we did have a presence there to protect Mr. Ross and Omni-teks interests.

I however was not present. Detonate and our Blackops division made sure to wisk me to safety the minute Dark Carnival attacked Snarf.


The media is attempting to create a scandel. And it is our strong feeling certain party's have noticed the sheer size of First Order.


First Order is one of Omni's largest guilds. And we are also one of Mr. Ross's most fierce supporters.

As such, we come to expect being targeted by certain renegades to be used as a tool to cause the downfall of the Amnesty.


So I ask you this, are we to condem a man on your sheer word alone?

I think not.

I require proof to act on this, as Crazypostman is one of our most trusted members. He has met the reclaim booth many times in support of Mr. Ross and our cause.

[____________eleetist]

Sounds to me the only proof you consider acceptable is witnessing it yourself... Are you not aware of your own members actions... I have better things to do than make up stuff... hell I don't even know crazypostman. Never met him, only witnessed what he did. Hearsay is if I heard from someone that...... So yes, the snarf statement would be hearsay.... The crazypostman is not hearsay because instead I am a witness to it, which makes me evidence...

Let me remind you that Truwind said there was no proof of Aberic's attack... that she knew nothing of it... and that DC claims they are a loyal OT guild. What good is it to report incidents to a fellow loyal guild if they overlook and don't even bother to investigate the info. I'll check and see if I one of my mates have logs of the attacks... and if so I will post them for everyone to read. In which case everyone can note the actions taken. I'm not sure who did logs of what... I did not at this meeting... I logged the later meeting at baboons... which I can give you the transcript if you like... but the only comments referring to your guild have been posted and the meeting last well over an hour.

And at the Omni-ECPCS meeting you made a mockery of it. The meeting was for the LOYAL guilds or did you not read that part of the invitation... thus DC was left out of the first meeting and TBA was not invited. If you wanted all guilds there you should've known in advance they would not be there.

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by eleetist
Sounds to me the only proof you consider acceptable is witnessing it yourself... Are you not aware of your own members actions... I have better things to do than make up stuff... hell I don't even know crazypostman. Never met him, only witnessed what he did. Hearsay is if I heard from someone that...... So yes, the snarf statement would be hearsay.... The crazypostman is not hearsay because instead I am a witness to it, which makes me evidence...

Let me remind you that Truwind said there was no proof of Aberic's attack... that she knew nothing of it... and that DC claims they are a loyal OT guild. What good is it to report incidents to a fellow loyal guild if they overlook and don't even bother to investigate the info. I'll check and see if I one of my mates have logs of the attacks... and if so I will post them for everyone to read. In which case everyone can note the actions taken. I'm not sure who did logs of what... I did not at this meeting... I logged the later meeting at baboons... which I can give you the transcript if you like... but the only comments referring to your guild have been posted and the meeting last well over an hour.

And at the Omni-ECPCS meeting you made a mockery of it. The meeting was for the LOYAL guilds or did you not read that part of the invitation... thus DC was left out of the first meeting and TBA was not invited. If you wanted all guilds there you should've known in advance they would not be there.

I'm sorry if you disagree.


Any faction Mr. Ross puts his stamp of approval on.. is fine with First Order, untill we are ORDERED otherwise.

Perhaps you should read our webpage to get a clear idea of what our policy's involve.

Perhaps you should take into account Dark Carnival may be looking for a scapegoat.

And perhaps you should take into account that for weeks before that, we had a raid on the saturday following the TAG conference... A raid in which clan AND omni banded together to eliminate a common foe.

We did this to support the Amnesty and Mr. Ross's orders. And I find it funny that no one has made mention of this.

For hours both Omni and Clan co-existed without ANY problems. And I openly invited clan members IN TIR, to join us to eliminate the cyborgs.

Again,


This is the FIRST I have heard of this. If Crazypostman did in fact mow down countless people, I would expect to see countless telling me this happened.

Instead, it is just you.


As I have stated before, there are many guilds that would love to see harm done to First Order.

First Order is one of the largest, if NOT the largest guild under Mr. Ross's control.

And I must reinterate our support for Mr. Ross.


From day one our number 1 policy has been to follow orders.

We try to represent Mr. Ross as well as possible in ALL instances.


Our policy's remain, as do we.

[Windowlicker]

Read this.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...277#post246691



Does this sound like a person that was willing to sit within omni walls and discuss topics with Omni leaders?


Or does it sound like a person that would show up for the SOLE purpose of fabricating a story to eliminate one of the largest Omni orgs?

It would make quite a bit of sense in my opinion for Snarf to attempt to eliminate the First Order.


The First Order is a threat to his renegade clan faction, as we protect Mr. Ross and his policy's.


I see this as ample good reason to use us as scapegoats during the TAG meeting.

[____________eleetist]

the only reason you might not see countless people telling you because it was utter chaos at the time this was going on... flooded chats and and what seemed like everyone was attacking everyone else... Me and my three guildmates were well aware of it, but we were of a group of at most 20 that remained seated and being the General of Covert Ops and Intelligence for my guild I tried to take note of who was doing what. I don't go on heresay, but I intended to show that no one knows what happened in the attack on Snarf. I continue to believe First Order is a loyal and strong guild. But being a fellow loyal guild I thought this should be mentioned. I also argued along side you that DC and TBA should be included in future Omni-ECPCS meetings, but you wouldn't of heard that because I was just beginning my speech when you interrupted by terminating.

Any further correspondance on the matters in HQ, I will keep in private tells with you if you like. this would include any other information that comes to my attention. I was not sure as to where you were currently standing on the loyalty issue as my views were parted affected by what I saw. But seeing as how you are clearly claiming your loyalty in rhetoric I will assume you do the same in your actions. I will contact you in game if you like or want to discuss, we don't need more unity between Omni-guilds and I know you agree with that from the meeting we attended.

Thank You,
General Eleetist
DARC Ops

[Windowlicker]

Originally posted by eleetist
the only reason you might not see countless people telling you because it was utter chaos at the time this was going on... flooded chats and and what seemed like everyone was attacking everyone else... Me and my three guildmates were well aware of it, but we were of a group of at most 20 that remained seated and being the General of Covert Ops and Intelligence for my guild I tried to take note of who was doing what. I don't go on heresay, but I intended to show that no one knows what happened in the attack on Snarf. I continue to believe First Order is a loyal and strong guild. But being a fellow loyal guild I thought this should be mentioned. I also argued along side you that DC and TBA should be included in future Omni-ECPCS meetings, but you wouldn't of heard that because I was just beginning my speech when you interrupted by terminating.

Any further correspondance on the matters in HQ, I will keep in private tells with you if you like. this would include any other information that comes to my attention. I was not sure as to where you were currently standing on the loyalty issue as my views were parted affected by what I saw. But seeing as how you are clearly claiming your loyalty in rhetoric I will assume you do the same in your actions. I will contact you in game if you like or want to discuss, we don't need more unity between Omni-guilds and I know you agree with that from the meeting we attended.

Thank You,
General Eleetist
DARC Ops

I would appreciate if you have any problems with a member or two of First Order if you would address me directly. Addressing me in this fashion especially with this *silly* accusation floating around, only serves to aid the criminals in using us as a scapegoat.

As far as that meeting goes, I would be happy to hear your policys ingame, as well as that, would be happy to support fully ANY guild thats policys fall in line with the orders we have been issued by Mr. Ross.

I regret to inform all factions we cannot aid you if your actions do not reflect Mr. Ross's wishes.

We are running an org nearing the 400 member mark. As such we are bound to have problems with members eventually.

If in fact Crazypostman was attacking clan members, please keep in mind our members are under orders to fire when fired upon.

If there was ONE bullet fired by a clan member, Crazypostman has full authorization to fire back.

All clan members in the immediate vicinity of the offending party would also be targeted.

I'm sorry, but that's how this has to be. We have no way of distinguishing the good from the bad.

Clan members have nothing to fear from First Order unless they are the aggressors.

All literature I have supplied the community of Rubika supports this fully.


Untill then, I look forward to speaking with you ingame.

[______________Luxxan]

If in fact Crazypostman was attacking clan members, please keep in mind our members are under orders to fire when fired upon.

If there was ONE bullet fired by a clan member, Crazypostman has full authorization to fire back.

All clan members in the immediate vicinity of the offending party would also be targeted.

I'm sorry, but that's how this has to be. We have no way of distinguishing the good from the bad.

Clan members have nothing to fear from First Order unless they are the aggressors.

With rules like that it's perfectly understandable how all of this happens. I honestly don't know if Crazypostman was fired upon or not, because there was relative chaos near the speech platform, but I do know that he proceeded to beat down all clan people within his immediate area soon after the initial attacks.

I'm not sure what kind of outdated NCU you people are using, but as far as I knew, standard issue NCU makes it quite obvious who the person attacking you is, so there is never any doubt who the actual aggressor was. Not to mention that obvious visual cues should tip him off. The fact that I, and most other clan delegates, were still sitting, unarmed, waiting for the violence to abate, should have been a good indication that we weren't the aggressors. Or, at the least, after he had attacked us, and we only attempted to flee, that too should have clued him in.

We are running an org nearing the 400 member mark. As such we are bound to have problems with members eventually.

If you admit that you're likely to have problems with members, then why are you so adamantly refusing to admit there may have been a problem with this one? If you had handled this properly from the beginning, gotten the facts from whatever sources you trusted, and taken action on the members responsible as quickly as possible, the respect afforded to your guild would have increased as opposed to the massive decrease in respectability you are now suffering.