Full On Frontal Assault To Get Back Our Range Advantage.

[Noe]

See Garzu's very well pointed arguments. I will not reiterate them for concerns of brevity.

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...930#post245619

I KNOW that Funcom's current stance regarding the range cap set for NT's at 40 to be as stated by Cz and Cosmik:

"Range advantage: I am sorry, but I think I can assure you that it's not gonna happen. We've tried explaining it several times before that we simply can't, so I'm not sure what to tell you."

Even if you try to explain it to me until you are blue in the face I will simply not agree with that stance, and again I will state that this decision IS NOT ACCEPTABLE

Now, why dont i be a good little boy and agree with folks like Spydr?

He *and CZ, at that* said that we couldn't have the added range for technical reasons (well, in a different post they elaborated). If they fix the pathing AI, which is the problem (I don't doubt they will eventually will), I'm sure they will up the range again.

BUT CZ also said that he would forward some of our ideas (including mine, which I didn't think he would) to the nano-Dev team. These ideas included:

Nanopool buff, fumble-reduce buff, nanoresist debuff, nullify sphere getting more common (along with carbon-rich rock), and some sort of way to decrease recharge time for nanos (my idea; never saw it elsewhere (though I can't promise it was poised somewhere I havn't seen).

Because it is a BASIC TENET of the NT that we are a RANGED ATTACK CHARACTER CLASS.

WHY put all the range extending nano's and items in the game?

The answer they KNOW that NT's are supposed to be a ranged attack character class, but because of some poor decisions with implementing development and continued bad pathing, and player whines about our range, and exploitation of ONE MOB type leads them to think.....

"hmm, lets see, the NT's are too "uber" <-- fallacy, read Garzu's post --> and they can attack mobs and PC's from range without being able to be hit!, SO, lets take their range away!!!"

NO DUH! we can hit from range w/o being hit.

How is being mindful of tactics and range and using it to our advantage something that is BAD? That IS or rather, WAS our ONLY advantage.

I will CONTINUE to harp on this until Funcom relents.

the NT is a RANGED ATTACK CHARACTER CLASS and RANGE is the ONLY advantage we have.

[nate2010]

MASSIVE BUMP

[_____________Cloudeh]

And im and Enforcer, you being in my face is my advantage.

but you have roots, use roots to gain the range, root, run, nano attack nano attack, root etc etc.

Maybe only me thouh, when you root me and rooted for ever.
Not even my beserk rage gets me off it.


I have no problems with my low lvl nt, infact the range on it is quite good, I like it.

[Noe]

Originally posted by Cloudeh
And im and Enforcer, you being in my face is my advantage.

but you have roots, use roots to gain the range, root, run, nano attack nano attack, root etc etc.

Maybe only me thouh, when you root me and rooted for ever.
Not even my beserk rage gets me off it.


I have no problems with my low lvl nt, infact the range on it is quite good, I like it.

You are very correct, sir. If you get in on me, i dont expect to last long.

THE FIGHT FOR AN NT IS VERY DIFFERENT than between other professions amongst each other, and that is VERY Ok with me, as long as I have a chance in using the tactics that "SHOULD BE" available to me.

Take for instance, a battle between a soldier and a Fixer... when it comes down to it, there is not too much difference in the point and shoot style of these (yes, there are subtle differences, but in general its "who can outlast the other" or who is more pimped out than the other.

What the difference is with an NT is this.

Along w/ the Agent, the NT should be then the second best at range attacks. And the ensuing battle has NOTHING to do w/ who can outlast the other, or who is pimpled, bla bla, it has to do w/ tactics.

If I get you rooted (provided that roots worked as they should and not be broken unless im stupid enough to step in and use my shottie) then you can count on dying. It should be no different between PvM and PvP. I should be able to use *basically* the same tactics.

If you get in on me, I should expect to die very quickly (such is the way of the mage, low HP's, lower AC's means quick death to a girder wielding Atrox, or an Alpha, Burst, Fling and Regular shot, or a Pet and Debuffs, or DoT and (insert doc weapon) or an MA's Dimach and Brawl and healing, or an Advent out lasting w/ heals, etc.

It is a VERY different sort of fighting. I HAVE to get you first, FROM RANGE. If I cannot, I am dead.

That is the WHOLE point. If I dont have Range as a weapon, then I have to TAKE DAMAGE, and the NT is NOT made to take damage.

If they are going to stick w/ a 40m Range cap, then they BETTER DAMN WELL give us the Same HP's as an Enforcer , the healing of an MA, the DoT's of a Doctor, etc etc etc, and how freaking boring would that be?

I KNEW that this had nothing to do w/ Plant Mobs, It comes down to PvP is why they did this.... because people whine about getting killed from range w/ no ability to fight back....

Well booo-frickin'-hooo, you GOT BEAT, the moment you let an NT get anywhere near you. If i fall asleep and let you in, I EXPECT TO DIE.

I dont know how much more clear i can make this for Funcom or those who think we are full of it.

But read all the boards folks. People are quitting their NT's, not because they are not "uber" anymore, but becuase those of us who could give a rat's butt about being uber have had the ONLY ADVANTAGE we have taken away with no recourse, discussion, NOTHING.... just taken away.

[Myga]

Agents got no range advantage. Funny thing is agent rifles dont have longer range than other weapons, then add motion predictors or low light targeting scopes and you get 40m range with a 8m range gun.

[Calox]

Originally posted by gardner1

WHY put all the range extending nano's and items in the game?

Well not all nanos have 40m, afaik izgimmers last word is dd with longest range 30m. NTs are not the only ones using those things, e.g. docs also use range increasers.AND i dont think deck range increasers like the ql200 one were intended to add 150m range, but modify 150%. so with ql200 range inc. izgimmers should have hmm 45m ? then its cut by 5m now , oh well

ok NTs have problems with closecombat (well not all) , but that is something different (go get some hp/ac/evade implants or docbuffs ...).

NTs with very high range like it was some patches ago was simply unfair!!! to all other professions. you think its fair that nts were able to nuke deep red plants and other stuff at lower levels to get 60k+ xp without beeing hit for 1 hp damage ?

[______________Klattu]

Originally posted by Chtuluh
Well not all nanos have 40m, afaik izgimmers last word is dd with longest range 30m. NTs are not the only ones using those things, e.g. docs also use range increasers.AND i dont think deck range increasers like the ql200 one were intended to add 150m range, but modify 150%. so with ql200 range inc. izgimmers should have hmm 45m ? then its cut by 5m now , oh well

ok NTs have problems with closecombat (well not all) , but that is something different (go get some hp/ac/evade implants or docbuffs ...).

NTs with very high range like it was some patches ago was simply unfair!!! to all other professions. you think its fair that nts were able to nuke deep red plants and other stuff at lower levels to get 60k+ xp without beeing hit for 1 hp damage ?

Sorry Chtuluh but you dont know what are you talking about.

[________________Miir]

Originally posted by MSag
Agents got no range advantage. Funny thing is agent rifles dont have longer range than other weapons, then add motion predictors or low light targeting scopes and you get 40m range with a 8m range gun.

Wrong.

A QL200 Yatamutchy Movement Predictor -Xl1 has the following reqs:

WeaponSmithing 501
Perception 801

On an 8m weapon it will give a range increase of 4m.


A QL200 Extreme Low Light Targeting Scope has similar reqs and would give a (45%) 3.6m range increase.

[_______________spydr]

Originally posted by Chtuluh


Well not all nanos have 40m, afaik izgimmers last word is dd with longest range 30m. NTs are not the only ones using those things, e.g. docs also use range increasers.AND i dont think deck range increasers like the ql200 one were intended to add 150m range, but modify 150%. so with ql200 range inc. izgimmers should have hmm 45m ? then its cut by 5m now , oh well

You're forgetting about the range extender buffs that NT's get. The third highest gets most of our nukes (minus a few 20m ones) to 41.75m.

The highest one adds 104% to the range of nanoformulas.

Most NT nukes have a 25m range.

Do I have to do the math? Fine.
25 * 2.04 = 51
There's 11m right off (20% even!)

Add a deck range increaser and you can easily get most of our nanoformulas to the 80m viewdistance most zones allow for the max.

With a 75% deck range, and the 104% buff, you get 25m range up to 69.75m. And thats only a q100 (that is, if the increase is linear).

BooYah!

And, Klattu, just saying that someone doesn't know what they are talking about w/o saying why makes you look like an idiot. Sorry.

------

If you doubt my numbers, check out the nanotech formulas and click on random nukes to see their range. Also, check out Notum Overload, it's our highest nano-range extender. Things like Volcanic Eruption have a smaller range (20m), but with a q200 increaser & nanobuff, that gives us 70.4m range.

[Myga]

Originally posted by Miir


Wrong.

A QL200 Yatamutchy Movement Predictor -Xl1 has the following reqs:

WeaponSmithing 501
Perception 801

On an 8m weapon it will give a range increase of 4m.


A QL200 Extreme Low Light Targeting Scope has similar reqs and would give a (45%) 3.6m range increase.

Believe you are the one who are mistaken here. On these 2 items, range increase is listed in meter. I believe my ql 52 LLTS says range increase of 10m (and I do really notice it with my 28m range rifle so meter seem correct unit here), my ql 120 says 16m or so. The movement predictors gave even higher range increases at same QL compared to LLTS last time I had one before it poofed.

[________________Miir]

Every player I have spoken to has indicated that the range increase is, infact, a percentage.

My own tests have indicated this as well.

[Calox]

just said what i think about range increasers, read this thread and you see that all calculating is ADD range , but i think it was intended (by fc but bugged like other things) as MODIFY by % :

(from other post)
Most NT nukes have a 25m range.

Do I have to do the math? Fine.
25 * 2.04 = 51
There's 11m right off (20% even!)

but i think it should be 25m * 1.04 = 26m
25m * 1.50 = 37.5m (with ql200 increaser only)

adding 150% just makes no sense to me. maybe one of the fc guys should ask the developers about range again. and btw. dont call someone idiot , try to see the point from another professions view and ask your self if a range increase of that insane amount is fair to others.

[_______________Garzu]

Originally posted by Miir


Wrong.

A QL200 Yatamutchy Movement Predictor -Xl1 has the following reqs:

WeaponSmithing 501
Perception 801

On an 8m weapon it will give a range increase of 4m.


A QL200 Extreme Low Light Targeting Scope has similar reqs and would give a (45%) 3.6m range increase.

Well, this is not how it works in PvP, soldiers, agents and all other tweaked ranged weapon users got exactly the same range as me.

[_______________spydr]

Originally posted by Chtuluh
but i think it should be 25m * 1.04 = 26m
25m * 1.50 = 37.5m (with ql200 increaser only)

Hello! It adds XXX pecent.

I could have said 25 + (25 * 1.04), but I instead choose the shorter route of 25 * 2.04. I could have even said 25 * (1 + 1.04). Make more sense?

*sigh*

The extra '1' is the original range. So a 100% increase would be range time 2.

Is this concept really that hard?

100% increase means 25m range would be 50m range, right? Makes sense...

25 * 1 = 25 Well, I guess that didn't work out.

25 * 2 = 50 Hey! It worked the way it should!

*sigh*

Also, on the low-light targeter, I'm pretty sure the numbers listed are not a percent, but rather an actual distance.

Otherwise, my brain would explode.

Basically, if I add the numbers for the range of my mausser and the range increase (assuming it's in meters, not %), it gives me a range slightly lower (2-3m) than my range extender nano gives my 25m nanoformulas (assuming it's a %, not meters). This checks out in-game. I have a slightly longer range with my nanos than my gun. A few meters longer.

[________________Miir]

Well, this is not how it works in PvP, soldiers, agents and all other tweaked ranged weapon users got exactly the same range as me.

I imagine you are fighting players who have geared their character for PvP. Any player who wants to 'own' in PvP will have their Yatas and LowLights and long range rifles.

Fling/Burst/FA range cannot be increased with any piece of hardware.


Range increasing hardware is a pretty serious IP investment for ranged weapon users.

Range increasing nanos are a miniscule IP investment for a Nanotech. Every NT should be very close to the range cap (36m) before level 20.

[_______________Garzu]

Im sorry Miir, but i really dont think those guys have invested that much ip into getting their range at 40m. (And you are right, the guys im talking about is uber tweaked). Im not sure, but i really dont think the range increase described on the items is either in metres or percent, its in a different calculation, i think. Not only are they very good at PvP with their range and dmg, they are just as good in PvM. That makes it hard for me to believe they have used 100s of thousands ip into an item to increase range.

[Noe]

Originally posted by Chtuluh

adding 150% just makes no sense to me. maybe one of the fc guys should ask the developers about range again. and btw. dont call someone idiot , try to see the point from another professions view and ask your self if a range increase of that insane amount is fair to others.

First point...agreed, maybe funcom should actually talk to each other about things before they start changing things, or making statements like "its not gonna change" That's just not an acceptable reply, when every other nerf in this game's history has been reversed or mitigated somehow by coming up w/ other solutions.

Second point, I SHOULD HAVE to ask myself or for ANYONE's "opinion" on whether "if a range increase of that insane amount is fair to others"

OF COURSE ITS NOT FAIR, jesus, do you people want to play Candyland?

ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO BE FAIR. It s supposed to be an ADVANTAGE.

To the point of people nuking deep reds for 60k (which I higly doubt unless it was a grouped effort) etc, I have one statement for you....fix the MOB AI.

Even if its the case of "MOBS past visual distance couldnt "see" you and so would run around etc."... AGain, fix the MOB AI.

To the point where it affects PvP, too bad, so sad, move along, next argument.

I GUESS I WILL HAVE TO REPEAT THIS AGAIN. RANGE is the NT's ONLY real ADVANTAGE.

IF you get targeted by an NT first, before you notice him, YOU SHOULD BE DEAD MEAT.

IF YOU should get the Jump on ME? I SHOULD BE DEAD MEAT.

Like I said before, either here on in the other thread, the NT game is VASTLY different than what "you all" are thinking of in terms of how the game is played w/ guns. This is what LED people to say , "OOOHH, the NT rooted me, stepped back out of my range and then nuked me, and continued until I was dead in like 3-4 nukes!!!"

Of course, the morons died with no chance, that's the whole point, because if it were the other way around, you would be sending me /tells like "Want more?"

PFFFFTT. forget it, i shall "argue" with the people on this board, YOU ALL DONT MATTER to me at all,

What DOES count is that the Devs tell Cosmik and CZ to make a statement that they will go back and look at the issue and see how they can get us back our range without screwing something else up, possibly maybe by making their game work the way it should perhaps??? h8h? dontcha think? that would be swell.


BTW, again I will say, Cosmik and Cz, you guys are good guys, I DO know that you are the PR/CS/Board guys whose job it is to relay to us the info and vice versa. I dont want you to think I am attack you guys personally, So far you have shown yourselves to be straight forward and stand up guys.

*************************************************
btw, for the math people , here you go


Name CrunchCom Code Sieve
Desc The CrunchCom Code Sieve (tm) intercepts all nano formulas the caster is about to execute and analyzes the code, removing all redundancies. This lowers nano point costs by 6%. It has the added benefit of increasing the range of nano formulas by 5%.
QL/NCU Cost 4
Icon
NanoCost 50
Range 15m
Time 3600s
Attack Delay 3.02s
Recharge Delay 3.08s
AtkSkills MaterialMetamorphose 34
AtkSkills PsychologicalModification 33
AtkSkills SenseImprovement 33
To Use SenseImprovement 64
To Use MaterialMetamorphose 64
To Use PsychologicalModification 64
To Use VisualProfession Nano-Technician
Default Set RangeIncreaserNF to 5 On Target
Default Set NPCostModifier to -6 On Target



Name Enhance Nano Cohesion
Desc Increases the range of all nano formulas by 42%.
QL/NCU Cost 7
Icon
NanoCost 44
Range 20m
Time 2400s
Attack Delay 3.04s
Recharge Delay 3.15s
AtkSkills MaterialMetamorphose 34
AtkSkills MaterialLocation 33
AtkSkills SenseImprovement 33
To Use MaterialLocation 109
To Use MaterialMetamorphose 109
To Use SenseImprovement 109
To Use VisualProfession Nano-Technician
Default Set RangeIncreaserNF to 42 On Target



QL50
Name Computer Deck Range Increaser
Desc The CDRM increases the range of Nano Programs run by the installer of this piece of hardware. NOTE: You need to have a NCU Deck Slot available to equip it... (The number of usable slots is decided by your NCU component belt...)
QL/NCU Cost 50
Icon
Price 78000
Equip Delay 30s
To Wield ComputerLiteracy 101
Wear Modify RangeIncreaserNF by 110

QL200
Name Computer Deck Range Increaser
Desc The CDRM increases the range of Nano Programs run by the installer of this piece of hardware. NOTE: You need to have a NCU Deck Slot available to equip it... (The number of usable slots is decided by your NCU component belt...)
QL/NCU Cost 200
Icon
Price 780000
Equip Delay 30s
To Wield ComputerLiteracy 651
Wear Modify RangeIncreaserNF by 150

[Noe]

Originally posted by MSag
Agents got no range advantage. Funny thing is agent rifles dont have longer range than other weapons, then add motion predictors or low light targeting scopes and you get 40m range with a 8m range gun.

If you're an agent, im sorry, i TOTALLY AGREE with you and think that there is only ONE profession that should be able to either outdistance or stand at distance w/ us for a fight and that is the AGENT.

I have very biased opinions on this, i guess in part based upon other games, and real world. First, if im 80m (which is 86.67yards or 260 feet away (think football field)) what do you think will hit me? A Barrett M82 .50 or an Uzi?

The barrett is the correct answer, in fact the first shot will explode my head from body.

Why do soldiers, Fixers, etc etc etc, think that Range is unfair?

BECAUSE .... It IS unfair.

That's why NT's and Agents have crappy BD.

I should FEAR the Agent. You should FEAR the NT.

Otherwise, you guys can normally just go run around and play your ganking little game, right?

nuh uh.

We make the game fun and interesting, we make you THINK aobut whether even with your view distance up or not if you STILL should be checking your peripheral vision or not.

[_______________spydr]

Originally posted by Miir
Fling/Burst/FA range cannot be increased with any piece of hardware.

Then I guess my mausser/lowlight targeter are special, because I can burst at full range. (which is slightly lower than my nanorange...see above)

[Noe]

SHAMELESS BUMP