Money, gotten completely out of hand?

[Jhoanna]

If you ask for "tips" you are dumb.

if I provide a server i.e. Wranglers, I sure as hell set a price for that, and the people running away gets on the traders blacklist, yes, there is a list.

everyone who runs away goes straight to hell, we all know this. trying to run a proffesional business, then some moneygrubbing lowbe noob, 12 year old ****up runs along, where we try to be nice and stuff, ask him only 100k for a 132 wrangle, and the insta /ignores you and runs away.

yes, economy is fubar, thanks to these 12 year olds. kill them all, just haxxorz their ips and kill them with a knife or something when they sleep mwahhaahahahahaa, fear the wrath of the traders.

[-Zagadka-]

You need a vacation, Jho.

I just practice for donations... I made almost 2 million in one day from IC and +80 after IPR, just from standing around waiting. :-p

[_______________Nycon]

You know I dont require tips, but i appreciate them alot of the times. Its not a requirement and i dont expect it, but when someone generously, out of the kindness gives me a few creds to get me by, I become exstatic that there are actually thoughtful people out there, rather than people who are degrading others by calling them stupid, or noob's or saying theyll "haxxorz" their face.
I do not see the point in downplaying others, we are all people, and we all have something in common, rather than being rude we should embrace one another as breathren.

[__________HardBoiled]

I got an idea for a money sink. Let someone( I dont care what prof(s)) preferably with fixers' help, create something like wearable implants that will allow build in NF of maker's choice.
The implants should have several features:
1. Wearable on the wrists.
2. Usable even if skill is not there
3. Usable based on level not on skill, so that no NF of higher lvl could be used.
4. Each use would have long "recharge" time.
5. Making of the implant would be very expensive. Therefore, only viable on the higher levels.
6. Using of the implant would require substancial credit payment.

With those conditions classes that need something really bad could get to use other class NF. That lvl 150 MA looking for a way out of tough fight? How about cliking that AE calm at that price of "measely" 3m? That lvl 160 Engie wants that new red slayer back that just timed out of control? How about clicking those mocham bracelets for reasonable price of 1m?
Also the bracelets could possibly have limited amount of charges on them. The higher the skill of the maker the more charges there is on the bracelet( symbio-graft).

Obviously, the more potentially useful the NF is the more expensive the use should be.

[Dibond]

u can buy credits off of ebay?how do u do that?

[Narchy]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=11675

ohhhh the ebay thing......before you try to do something like that....read this.....heh

[______________Bayala]

Fixers and doc's havea very close relationship..
we can't kill stuff with out a doc to keep us up...
Doc's can't get XP without someone (a fixer hehe) to kill the mob...
SO unless i die a ton of times (aka a good doc) then i either buy them nano chargers, or pay them in creds.
Now my roommate used toplay a doc... he actaully didn't do to bad, his complaint was the problem of the mobs in the groups being to fast and he couldn't get his heals off fast enought to keep them up.. (with a SINGLE mob!) now granted he was diong ql 150+ missions, as a lvl 90 or so doc... but that's not the point... and i agree with him on this.. MOBS ARE TOO FAST!.
Slow down the mobs, or speed up the doc nano's... problem with him solved.
The money issue, i agree with the pets idea... something kinda like a crat pet, humanoid in form, called a nurse.. hehe
female of course and more busty then the usual PC... hehe (ok just a fantasy.. sry i'll stop now)
The pet would do something like "charm" the mob, or "fear" it... so that maybe doc's can fear kite for money... i dunno maybe it's just the fixer in me..

Bayala

[_____________lestats]

im poor to and im a eng, i maxed all my important trade skills (except np, oh what i fool i am )
and no one seems to ever need anyone with a high ws,ee or me.
and when ppl do need help, i hate to ask for money off them, the way i see it is that it costs me nothing to do the task so why should i set a price on it?
if the person has money to tip then hopefully they will do so but im not going to ask for it
And when i see people charging a set amount for a buff and they wont take less it just doesnt make sense to me, its not a Business its a game!!! :P

[_____________Siiamak]

What a load of crap docs cant make money u just dont know how prob a NEWB I I I ..! do u think fighting classes have it easy .. silly getting newarmor and weapons all the time (every 10 - 15 lvls ) is a ***** and u know mas that u mention is actually much richer than other char they dont have to spend lot of money and time on wepons and as far as selling weps getreal man not many have time spending hours on shopping channel selling weps .. if u wanna make money stop whining and start lvling any char after 100 i dont care if ur a Enforcer or a Baker! will get rich from mission loot and so on ul atleast make 200k per day thats thinking ur no playing to earn money and if u r lvl 90 and dont have a yalm yet then u just suck .. and dont think every body with lot of money is a cheater that buys from ebay .. just meens he / she knows how to play and u dont. and beggers r a bunch of stupid newbis that think u actually profit from spending time begging instead of lvling STUID STUPID STUPIDO! what do u think every body was once a poor low lvler including me i never once begged from ppl and i have 3 yalms now and my highest char is only 112 yea thats right and i am not that much of a UBER player i just dont suck.

END of story END of whining!

[_____________Siiamak]

my last post is a reply to the first post in this thread

[Intone]

Originally posted by Avatarius
AO's economy is shaken due to the influx of tens of millions [and possibly hundreds of millions] of credits purchased from E-Bay for real money, flooding an economy with cash causes inflation.

E-bay money is really very small issue here. Economy is so twisted because there really isn't much use for money after lvl 100. At that point you simply cant buy much from shops and other players rarely have items you need.

My 135lvl MP made 5mil credits today by only doing some solo missions (lvl 170ish) and dumping the loot to vendor. Also some 500+k came from buffing occasional mochams for those who happened to ask for them.

Now what do i do with such amount of cash? Nothing! I already bought my yalmaha and most of the cool highlevel stuff is nodrop anyway. I even bougth ql 15 wen-wen for 750k from some lvl 19 player, just to blow some cash away. And also bought 1500 ql125 nanochargers for about 1 million cr. Didn't even hurt.

Ok, so this should not inflate economy at higher lvls as there really is no market to twist. The inflation comes when i create new character, transfer my 20mil to him and start bying equipment for obscene prices. 500k for some armor part? Seems cheap! I'll take two!

And if I ever run out of cash... Well, i'll just log my highlvl character and do some missions. Woo, I have 10mil again to spend!

[_________________AFI]

I think funcom should up the price the shop gives you when you try to sell an item at a booth. I mean at lvl 10 if u sell a ql 5 nano you get like 10 cred when a lvl 5 nano to buy in the store is around 2k. Most of the time I just drop the item on the ground because it just isnt worth taking to the shop to sell.

I have a lvl 133 eng and I seriously had 0 money at lvl 97, but now im 133 i have millions, so i can understand that it is pretty hard to make money at a low lvl. You can buy any nano you need from ql1-115 in the shops along with ncu and belts, which eliminates the lower lvl people to sell theri nanos to other people for a decent price and thus are forced to sell in the shop for some getto ass price that honestly really isnt worth it.

I also think that the low ql items in the shop are priced too high for the ql they are. I mean a ql4 nano is 900cred and can be used at around lvl 3 or 4 of your character. Now at lvl 1-4 it is a bit difficult to get 900cred for a nano when u are also needing to get weapons, med kits, nano kits, imps, ncus.. u have to kill like 2000 leets to get 2k cred, and all the missions are good for is the cash reward (which really isnt enough), all items are worth nothing because some alt can easily buy them in the store.

Im not saying to just give in and make all newbs wealthy and buy whatever they want, I still want the need to earn your money, but I just want the prices in the shops buy/sell value to change a tad so that it can be a little easier for new people to get by and get to the high lvl where the serious money is, and cut back a bit on ppl shouting at fair trade wanting money :P

just a thought

[Lheann]

Ok just so the new players know this.

I had been following the boards for some time amd saw that tips for implant building where listed at outrageous levels. So I decided to just offer what I felt was reasonable.

My approach ,and I figure I will get flamed for this, is to offer 20 to 25k for ql 90 to 110 implants. In short I have three ql 100 implants built I drop a tip of 60 to 75k.

The remarkable thing is I get thanked for the tip and usually make a new AO friend in the process. I find it hard to believe that some people are paying over 300,000 credits to have a set of ql70 implants built. And Yes I have seen such post on these boards.

The point of my post is simple. Dont let the super high prices drive you crazy. There are many people just like you that are straped for cash and will gladly take your 25k tip for implant construction or buffing. So when you get told some outrageous price just walk away and find someone else to do it for you.

First rule of business even in a game - dont set your prices so high that people dont like paying them. Because someone will at some point under cut your prices and your income will just go away.

As for making cash read the boards. There are many good and easy ways to make money. The best by far is doing mission far away that can be gridded to and require less than 5 minutes run time. They are out there. TIR to MMD -- big money little run time.

[Peisinoe]

About implants and tips. Anyone who can put together a ql 100 implant probably doesn't need 25k credits. When someone asks me to make them implants, I just do it or ignore them depending on my mood. (I don't advertise, so they only find me by using /list meta.) If they tip 25k (had one tip me 5k for ql 150s), I decline the trade and tell them to enjoy. I figure if a person thinks 25k is a lot, then they should just keep it. I generally spend at least a million credits a day. Nano chargers, treatment buffs etc. 25k just isn't going to make a whole lot of difference to me. Not even many 25ks. To those who give me 100k+ per implant, I thank and remember.

Then there's the people you wish you'd just put on your ignore list afte the first tell. For instance, tonight, some guy attempted to trade with me. I told him to hold on because my inv was full. He tried anyways. Get the usual inv is full, trade cancelled blahblah. He then asks me where his implants are. Strong insinuation that I stole them from him. :P Heh. Or the people who give you backpacks full of implants and clusters in no particular order. I sometimes think I SHOULD charge for implant building. Just to counter the stress that many times comes from attempting to be nice. (As it stands now, I don't. But if a person wants to give me 3 mill to build his implants for him, I won't decline. )

As for money, they need more things to spend it on other then the 'player economy'. Though the root of the problem is that the concept of economy wasn't ever thought out at all. I've played games that had working economies. The amount of money flowing into/out of the game was closely monitored. In the case of AO, looting mobs, completing missions, selling eq to terminals. As far as I know, that is the only way money enters the economy. From there, the only way it leaves is through buying at shop terminals/merchants. Since you're done with shop terminals/merchants by level 100ish, that leaves a lot of money that is flowing into the economy, but not out. Solution: More ways to remove money from the economy.

[Asmodea]

As most people had said, the biggest Problem for upper level player is that they don't know what to buy with their money. You can not buy something that isn't offered, but i don't think that the money problem would change if there would be shops selling lv 200 stuff because most people at lv 140+ already are very well equipt and won't be able to buy something usefull in such shops. As long as your equipment won't get lost you still have something to sell and a economy without decay of stuff is no economy it's quite simple a gigantic store. Maybe you should lose some equipment if you die after lv 80+ but i guess they crieing would fill all channels all day if you die and loose you beloved .. MegaMuncherBlasterMaster....

[____________Halfdeck]

Make a crat/NT/trader and blitz missions. Soldiers as well as others can also blitz missions, but the calming profs can grab the reward plus loot chests. Use clicksaver to find armor/nano/other items you want. Having a Yalm is almost a must -- you can get one by working your ass off, or joining a guild and then paying the guild back one you make money back on the Yalm.

From lvl 100-170 my trader never had to buy armor, nano, ncu, belts. Before 14.4 patch I've made 30 mil in one night blitzing, not counting 20 ql 200 ncus (that i could have sold for 2.5-3 mil per but instead gave to guild), ql 200 stigmas, novas, HGBs, etc, suit of elite.

I've tried blitzing with a lvl 5 atrox soldier as well (i got him a yalm at lvl 5, so he can pretty much grab any mission ) and it looks like he can get any armor/weps he wants at that level via blitzes.

I've also killed through solo missions with my MA to scrounge up credits and items to sell on the shopping channel. In retrospect its absolutely a waste of time.

Half

[______________Rogoff]

For most classes, EQ has even fewer moneysinks than AO. Yet item prices in EQ continue to drop, and drop, and drop.

I don't pretend to know exactly why, but I have a couple guesses:

1) New items are introduced frequently. This devalues the old items. People dump the old items on the market for dirt cheap, and get the new stuff.

2) Coin is, for the most part, not something monsters drop a lot of. The value in a camp comes from the items it generates, which then must be sold for cash.

3) You lose a LOT of money selling to a merchant. An item that will easily sell to a player for 9k platinum will fetch 50 plat at a dealer. The upshot of this is that a seller MUST find a buyer, so there is pressure to undersell.

4) Buying gear in EQ is sort of optional - you can get by with what's dropped by the mobs you fight. Buying gear in AO is mandatory, because you tend to wear stuff several QL's above whats dropping for you. This produces a "seller's market" effect.

Basically, in EQ selling is mandatory, buying is optional - so prices drop. In AO, buying is mandatory, selling (to players) is optional - so prices rise.

If this hypothesis is true, then to "fix" AO's economy, you'd have to make it harder to earn cash without selling to another player, and easier to get items you need without buying them from a player.

1) Nerf the prices offered by shop machines. If you want to sell it, you should be selling to a player. This also increases the supply of items - how many battlesuits have been lost to shop terms?

2) Nerf the cash rewards from missions. Offer 2 items as a reward or something, and very little cash. If you want to make money, go sell that stuff.

3) Fix the shop terms so that you can buy what they offer IN THE QL YOU NEED. Shop-bought should be more expensive than what you buy on the shopping channel, but also more convenient.

A rich twink should be able to stroll into a shop and walk out with a very expensive, but complete, set of armor. A poor person should be able to watch the shopping channel like a hawk for a bargain. Thus rewarding sellers who OFFER bargains.

Again, I am just hypothesizing here, but it makes sense to me.

A final point. Zylina pointed out that you're done with shops by level 100. That's not strictly true. You're done BUYING from shops by level 100, you SELL to them forever. The changes I've outlined above would help to reverse that equation, and make them viable moneysinks.

[Peisinoe]

Buying anything except maybe ncus and clusters is just an option in this game.

In AO, buying is mandatory, selling (to players) is optional - so prices rise.

Makes no sense. Mainly because buying is not mandatory. Buying has nothing to do with inflation.

Lets look at the basic structure of AO economy. Money enters the economy through looting mobs and selling loot to shops, and by completing missions with money as a reward. As far as I know, that is the only way money enters the economy. (I suppose exploits, GM abuse etc does as well, but even without that...all this holds true.)

Now, the only way money leaves the economy is when a player buys something from the shop terminals. Can anyone honestly say that the money going out is anywhere near the money coming in? No. They can't. Unless they're really really dumb.

So, the 'economy', in this case the pool of credits in game, gets bigger by the minute. This in itself would not neccessarily be bad. However, this growth of the credit pool is expanding much faster then the growth of the character pool. Thus, inflation happens.

The only way to come even remotely close to slowing down the inflation is to put in money sinks at higher levels. Credits transfering between players does nothing to help the economy. Only credits being transfered from players to the game so that the influx and outflux of credits remains fairly similar, will help to slow inflation.

That said, it is my belief that seeing as after over a year of going commercial and this game is still lacking any high end content other then pvp (lvl 90ish+), the economy will not be fixed any time soon. As it is the high end game that affects it the most. If they can't even make something for lvl 90+ players to do, then I doubt they can figure out how to make a working economy.

[______________Rogoff]

Buying anything except maybe ncus and clusters is just an option in this game.

Totally agree. What I should have said was buying from players is mandatory, if you want to stay equipped in gear over your QL.

In contrast, there's really no great pressure to sell to players - the shop terms will give you a decent price. The economy is demand-driven.

So, the 'economy', in this case the pool of credits in game, gets bigger by the minute. This in itself would not neccessarily be bad. However, this growth of the credit pool is expanding much faster then the growth of the character pool. Thus, inflation happens

If that were the case, then the EQ's economy should be inflationary too. But it's not, quite the reverse.

What I was (clumsily) trying to do is figure out what the big difference between the two economies is. Both have high-level players generating cash. Both have minimal cash sinks at higher levels (in fact EQ has *fewer* cash sinks).

Yet EQ prices fall, and AO prices rise, why? I never played AC, and DAOC has no economy, so I can't use those for comparison.

The only way to come even remotely close to slowing down the inflation is to put in money sinks at higher levels. Credits transfering between players does nothing to help the economy. Only credits being transfered from players to the game so that the influx and outflux of credits remains fairly similar, will help to slow inflation

High level money sinks fix the wrong end of the problem. Why is the game paying a high-level 500k per mission? Why can you sell the items from that mission for a million more?

The game throws too much cash at you. Far too much.

I agree that higher levels should have something interesting to do with their money, no question. But that's a content issue, not an economic one. The economy is broken at all levels, so clearly adding content at the high end isn't the fix.

Missions should offer very, very little cash and perhaps more items. Shopterms should offer very little cash. Shops should let you buy items in the QL you want.

[___________Placidity]

I was broke untill one day.... i wanted to see if i could cast SFA with mochies?? and lone behold i could :P...

So in that 50 mins..

/s casting IC and 80 treatment near on the ROCK.

Made over a mil in 50 mins... then i decided to use the shopping channels. went from 347k -> 6 mil in a few hours..


but as mentioned before... as a DOC i use 100k per mission in nano recharges, and because im a doc, i constantly need new armor due to leveling.. broke again =(.....



can i get a mochie??