Why we are adding level requirements on all future nano formula

[Tyndel]

first off, in response to cosmiks explanation: "BAH!"
come up with a better one please.
Secondly.. In light of the fact that a LOT of players here want additional justification for this most unwelcome change, try to get your head out of the sand and respond to the questions asked here.. You are not ostriches, hiding your head in the sand and hoping the noise will go away will not really work, people will just quit in disgust when you fail to respond im afraid.

[Warlock]

Originally posted by Cosmik in the Static Dungeon Thread
we would rather give you the game mechanics to enjoy your play time, rather than be affected by conflict because of game mechanics.

/me thinks Cosmik is telling porkys here

/me suggests to Cosmik that now might be a good time to prove this.

[Solarith]

I can see what the article is trying to say, but in my opinion this choice is the "lazy option". By taking these steps they are trying to avoid problems in the future but are making a lot more now by changing the very essence of the game. In one swoop several breeds are made almost useless and nano buffing professions find their skills unwanted and irrelevant.

The poll says it all, Funcom really needs to listen to the community on this one, lots of other issues have been give or take, but this one is different with a huge percentage of players against it.

This will be a real test on how far Funcom are prepared to go to please their community rather than follow their own schedule.

[Aristaeus]

Cosmik get Griffen to read the next thread
link to game mechanics

[__________JohnMclain]

Unfortunately I don't really buy this argument....

#1 There are far more powerful abilities currently in the game and having no level requirements than any of the new nanos for Fixers/Adv/MA and upcoming NT/Soldier ones.

#2 Even based on the current skill system the current level requirements are inane. Anyone can implant/buff to reach the better ones - in many cases self buffed. Both Advs and Fixers have proven how this can easily be done with average equipment.

#3 This really hurts the one REALLY good thing this game does, and why I imagine most of us play it - the skill system. For all the things that are screwed up about this game, the skill system was really good - the best I've seen in any action/rpg. Now you're basically discarding it.

#4 Now the two gimped professions have artificial restraints that other profs are NOT held too, even though the other profs have better or more unbalancing abilities (mochams, tmsX, deprives).

#5 There is no point to nano breed now - and MP's will continue to lose value in teams.

I am going to stop for a minute and applaud Funcom on something. They listened to which professions needed help and gave it to them in manners which were asked for. NCU and SMG buffs for fixers, multi wield and pistol/1he buffs for Advs. Way to go Funcom, this is a great start.

Just please don't ruin the best part of the game - character customization.

John

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Cosmik
From Andrew Griffin, nano designer:-

Adding level requirements on nanos means that new nanos that are made before the expansion pack is released will still become available at the ‘correct’ level, rather than all the level 200 nanos being useable at level 100. Additionally, this will allow us to increase the skill budget even further later on, if that is something that we want to do.

You did not answer any of the pressing questions brought forth by many players.

What will be the point of picking nanobreed over Atrox now, if nanomage was supposed to be able to use nanos earlier than Atrox due to int/psy being green? Now an Atrox and a Nanomage will be able to use the same nanos at the same time/level, essentially, obviously with a slight advantage toward the nanomage in that the IP cost will likely be lower, but that does not mean much when you weigh the HP of the two.

Or, what will be the point of teaming with a Meta-Physicist? One of the points in teaming is to be able to benefit from the buffs of your teammates. Now, a +140 mochams gift buff will be essentially useless, even if it would allow us to cast a new nano.

You may feel a need to do this, but your "changing game" needs to "change" in other ways before you have another mass exodus of players, which already seems to be starting.

Will the current nanos without level restrictions be given level requirements as well in the future? Lordy lordy please answer the questions we ask instead of spewing PR babble. We are not stupid. In fact, most of the time I think your players have far more clue about the game mechanics than the game designers themselves, which should be both embarassing and insulting at the same time, and I can't believe you put up with it. Listen to your players. They are smart, and they know what is a bad idea. When you don't listen, bad things happen -- and I fear you'll realize this soon if you continue down this road.

--Tsk

[-Zagadka-]

Here is what I think the inherent flaw is (copied from a post I made on AOB):

That isn't quite the issue. What FC said was that they are going to be introducing items in Shadowlands that will let level 100 chars easily use ql200 nanos, and they are phasing in the system to prevent that (ignoring the more obvious point - why the bloody hell put in items that let you do that if you aren't allowed to do it). The result is ql47 nanos with level 50 reqs that anyone could use easily (without uber buffing) at level 40. Scale that up. It is asinine. Under these rules, my ql200 implants mean nothing, since I would be limited to ql126 heals instead of the ql160 ones I am using now. It takes away the point of TRYING to customize my character, and makes me a cookie cutter - a level 126 Doc who can only do what other level 126 Docs do, with or without effort. I wouldn't even bother maxing nanoskills, because that would be pointless.

(And we all hate being cookie-cut characters)

[Cthonian]

Don't miss the new official poll:
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=35138

[___________Tangretti]

I have a lvl 30 fixer.. When I was lvl 20 I had enough nano skill with normal buffs and implants to use the lvl 25 required buffs.. I should say.. all but one.. While it wasn't great to have to wait to use the new nanos.. It wasn't so long of a wait.. However, at higher lvls.. where leveling slows down tremendously.. I would have hated having to wait to use the nano. The one nano that I didn't have the skill for was perfectly level restricted.. I was able to use it at lvl26. That being the suppressor buff. So it seems that some of these nanos have the correct lvl restrictions.. while others were simply put on to slow your progress... Bad idea for those, since progress is a major part of the excitement..

[________________Rook]

True Eagle6, but that's not the point. The points are as follows (among others):

1) If this new system is in preparation for Shadowlands, then FC is either planning to force it's players to buy the expansion (which I will never do) or they have not even considered the wild possibility that a player won't buy it. Whichever it is, if these limits are in preparation for the expansion, why are we being forced to use the limitations for the expansion without the bonuses of the expansion?

2) If this new system is an attempt to balance the professions (part of OE-control) then why are fixer self-only buffs level limited (supressor line) when other lines (like infuse/mastery/mocham's gift) are not. Which of these two lines seems more likely to throw off game balance? A +40 to SMG/MG or a +!40 to every nanoskill?

The following quotes are all from Cosmik's initial post in this thread:

With an expansion pack, we can go past the original barriers in the game. However, we need to take care that these new additions do not end up swamping and destroying the rest of the game. It is for this reason that level requirements are being added to new nanos....With these new skill levels that players will be able to reach sometime after the expansion pack is released, it will mean that using the current scale of skill requirements for nanos will make the highest level nano useable at a trivial level.

True. However, if you look real hard, you'll notice that we aren't playing the expansion.

Anarchy Online is still a skill-based game in that you will need to invest in the skills to be able to use the new nanos.

This is exactly the same as saying that it's a cash based game because you need to pay to play it. Yes, you do need to invest in skills to use items, but it doesn't matter all that much how you invest in skills, since the level limits will be in the way anyway.

Basically, this is more of FC's nonsense--"You people aren't playing the way we want you to, so we'll make you."

In my mind, it boils down to one final statement in Cosmik's post:

...if that is something that we want to do.

Not if that is something our customers would like, or if it seems like a good idea for the game...but if that is something they want to do.

Thanks again, FC.

Rook

[psionprime]

I've gamed some 20+ years on and offline RPG being the main interest of mine. I've developed some home-brew ones as well. I've been trying to understand this announcement.

I think I have the gist of it being, with the new expansion it seems there will be:

• the expansion will provide new content to provide high level challenge
• the new content will require new tools to overcome the challenges
• those new tools would provide overkill situations in the original content
• part of the revealed solution is to level lock some new items and increase skill requirements on some new items

I think I understand the level lock as being there so certain items that players might be able to use below the level lock due to buffs/implants would allow them to gain exp/loot faster than allotted by the overall game design. For players that have reached the level for the items to be active, they no longer would benefit from the rapid character growth but would from item for encounters at their level or higher (and this is the tricky part).

This being a skill based game, having level locks has many players are outraged. A sub-game, so-to-speak, is player skill in designing implants and buff usage to achieve their goals. This has been it from FAQ to version pre-14.x Of course, players are upset, this has messed up a lot of planning which may have started from the characters beginning because of not wanting to waste IP points or other reasons (thanks for IP reallocation in-game - it makes great sense in real and virtual life).

So, the problem in game mechanics is:

• new content challenges will require more powerful characters
• more powerful characters can be achieved through creating more powerful tools
• the new tools will upset the balance in the original game
• a method to counteract the upset balance in the original game is to level-lock the new tools

I would like to suggest a plan or two that may fit in better. I would be surprised is some weren’t discussed and am curious as to why they were discarded. The point of the plans being to continue with skill based and keeping out level-locking.

*** note with all plans (including current) an expansion providing new content for higher levels will benefit lower levels when the uppers migrate away from the old camps, etc.

Plan A – Make new content items usable only in the expansion, keeping current character level limits (200). Justify this with game fiction (i.e., the dimensional properties of the items simply won’t function in the original one)
Pros

• this would completely solve issues with abuse in the original game

Cons

• would lose the coolness of using new items in the old world
• lacking self marketing by other players who have not bought the expansion if they can’t see the benefit of the new items

Plan B – Increase character level limits beyond 200
Pros

• can continue skill level progression and set new item usage skills appropriately
• the player will have a good feeling continuing along original lines of progression as planned
• abuse of old world encounters would be handled as it is now, with planning and caps on exp and loot that would no longer be of interest to them though, as now, there will be times the high levels help lower levels etc…. pretty much when a player becomes 200(+) they no longer have interest in slaying that backyard leet aside from minor research
• players who do not have the expansion may be able to use the new items – if they have the skill; which would be difficult without the higher levels

Cons

• … feedback welcome J

The last pro line in Plan B, I see that FC wants players to be able to use the new items without increasing skills or character levels but at an appropriate time in the character’s career where it won’t be too abusive of the original game design – a balance of marketing and fun, I think.

In sum, I didn’t see a reason for the level caps on items until I hit the con’s on Plan B. I’d still rather see higher skill (with higher levels for those who buy the expansion) requirements and let players naturally progress or decide how to achieve what they want as this will make for a variety – as it is now and why I play the game. On the other hand, allowing players’ (who have purchased the expansion) travel between “dimensions” but not be able to use the new items aside from when there is appealing in simplicity.

Cheers

[Vaporlok]

FC I understand, things have not worked out like you thought. Putting in the proper skill reqs takes alot of development effort and balancing for you. You can't really put the proper reqs in and if you did, they're would no way for players to reach them because the IP system and buffs are out of line in accordance with level and skills. e.g. a level 160 player can about use almost anything in this game without OE penalty.

Its come down to fixing it the dirty way or no AO.

That explanation though...BUHAHAHAHA *wipes tears from eyes* oh that was good...

[Peisinoe]

From the offical 14.4 poll:

New patch, new fix-the-patch patch, and now the fun of 14.4 is will under way. Profession tweaks and changes, new Whompa system, increased outdoor hunting and alot of other goodies were included in this patch.

Geeze. You guys seem so proud of level restrictions, why aren't you blowing THAT horn as well?

It's funny how your voices on this board are trying to skirt THE issue of the game.

From CZ:

A lot of opinions on this, and it's hard to get everybody to agree. Anarchy Online is still a skill based game, and will stay so in the future. That is my opinion, at least, and Funcom's one too. (Note to self: Verify that last part tomorrow.)

You call that an answer? You're merely saying the same 'Anarchy Online is still a skill based game, and will stay so in the future.' mantra over and over again. It's an oft used strategy by politicians and businessmen to repeat repeat repeat and maybe the masses will hear it so much that they'll start believing it's true.

More from CZ:

You still need skill, and though I am not sure what is most common, I believe at least some of the nanos are made so that you reach the level requirement before possibly getting to the skill requirements. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The fact that you need us to correct you is scary. The players shouldn't know more then you at Funcom. You're not completely wrong. Because there are a couple that fit your description, so I can not call you a liar to your face on that one. They are the vast minority. To use them as proof that skill is needed is laughable. It's like ignoring 95 of your test subjects, and proclaiming the other 5 are the way it is. But you're a customer service rep, so it's your job to come up with bull****. So I can't really muster any frustration or anger towards either you or Cosmik.

No mention in that 'answer' on how nanomages will soon be an extinct breed. Perhaps this is gonna be part of the storyline where Agent X with the help of Omni Med creates a virus that wipes em all out? ;P

If you're going to use level reqs from here on out, at least admit it. Stop this lying about this game being a skill based game. Right now you're right. It still is. Several patches down the road from now....I really don't think so.

[einexile]

Mr. Griffin wrote:

Since the release of Anarchy Online, the way the requirements on the nanos have been calculated has not been changed, even though more items have come into the world that buffs the nano skills. Additionally, the requirements were lenient, and did not assume that you always had 100% external buffs and 100% of the nano buffing items.

And we are to pay for your endless lack of foresight by having another hole kicked in the way we've grown accustomed to playing the game.

Have you no shame at all?

For a year now you've been scrambling to "fix" neat things about this game that were "never intended". You neglected responsible design to begin with and then - as if that weren't bad enough - you fail to observe the beauty of what came about by accident. You then fail to respect the time and energy your customers have invested in responding to your haphazard and whimsical decisions.

Please understand that you are a blight on a work of art and go away.

[___________Evilspork]

Originally posted by Zylina
More from CZ:

You still need skill, and though I am not sure what is most common, I believe at least some of the nanos are made so that you reach the level requirement before possibly getting to the skill requirements. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.

The fact that you need us to correct you is scary. The players shouldn't know more then you at Funcom. You're not completely wrong. Because there are a couple that fit your description, so I can not call you a liar to your face on that one. They are the vast minority. To use them as proof that skill is needed is laughable. It's like ignoring 95 of your test subjects, and proclaiming the other 5 are the way it is. But you're a customer service rep, so it's your job to come up with bull****. So I can't really muster any frustration or anger towards either you or Cosmik.

WTF did that Cz quote come from? It's been proven over and over and over in this very forum that in just about every case the level req is over the level that you could normally use the nano, WAY over for many of them. Like you mentioned, there are a few that are 'ok', but they are vastly outnumbered by the screwed up ones.

[Peisinoe]

Official Answers

There you go Evilsporky. It's worth a few laughs.

[Tyndel]

Lalala.. no replies yet.. *twiddles thumbs and waits for another smokescreen from the community*

And to add something constructive to this rant.. If the new buffs in shadowlands will be so hideously overpowering that they will "allow nanos to be cast at trivial levels" then lvl-limit THOSE BUFFS!!!!!!!! Dont lvllimit everything else in the game so you can play around with +1000 buffs in the expansion pack.

[___________Evilspork]

Originally posted by Tyndel
And to add something constructive to this rant.. If the new buffs in shadowlands will be so hideously overpowering that they will "allow nanos to be cast at trivial levels" then lvl-limit THOSE BUFFS!!!!!!!! Dont lvllimit everything else in the game so you can play around with +1000 buffs in the expansion pack.

That, or don't even put them in the expansion if they're so unbalancing.

[OrionNT]

you know, i just spent the last 20 mins typing a really long post about wht i think about all these lvl reqs and things, and then i realized there was no point because nobody at FC was actually going to read it, so i just **** it. the guys at Funcom do not care what there customers think or want, they just want there money. when SWG comes out, my AO account will be cancelled, AO will be un-installed, and my AO CD, Book, Strategy Guide, will all be used to start a fire in my backyard.

[Unrealshadow]

When Funcom announced that they were going to fix the classes via different patches, no one would have minded if also in the patch notes was something like this :

IN addition to the fixes to your class(es) we are also adding content in regards to the new expansion pack Shadowlands. Now please realize some of the new nano's will be unusable without the buffs availible in shadowlands. But as a show of good faith on our (Funcom's) part, we are going to give you a peek at the new stuff, mind you, you will not be able to use it untill the release.
( NT looks at new nuke, drools... and etc...)

But instead you fix classes and attemp to blend content in as well. and quite frankly you are (in my opinion) gutting the very thing that is AO's strongest point. I wish to play a game that requires skill on my part not just "you must be xxx lvl to cast this nano" now you say but there are STILL requirements to cast that nano. and you are correct, but you may as well make the requirement 5 in mc and ts, because by the time we are high enough lvl to cast it it may as well be that low.

Now alot of new games are on the horizon, and they have TRADESKILLS. They are copying you, because it is your (A.O.) strength. That doesnot tell you something....? And I wish to play a futuristic game with non-trivialized tradeskills

Now i also realize this is buried so deep in this thread noone from funcom will ever read this. But i do feel very strongly about this issue. and i would hate to see this game make a Fatal mistake.

is my 2 cents