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Thread: Give NTs a break, but save the punishment for the bad kids

  1. #1

    Give NTs a break, but save the punishment for the bad kids

    I'm beginning to think playing an NT is leading me to clinical depression. The 'love' we're getting in the next patch seems like a well pronounced misunderstanding of the problems with NTs, so I'm wondering if I can just get some antidepressants to carry me to 220. Nothing makes NTs (nearly) tolerable like a drug-induced grin. It may seem extreme, but can you think of another way to suffer an NT for another 13 levels?

    Steveo said this regarding the new nanos NTs get with 16.3, but I'm convinced it applies quite directly to NTs across the board.
    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    It feels like this nano is way too punishment oriented. I understand that with all good things come bad things but really how many do we need to get? 30 min cooldown and we get our nanopool zapped and there is a long recharge on casting? I dunno, I understand there is balance to think about but don't you think we may have gone a little far here?
    It was when I read this that I realized it's not just this nano that is punishment oriented; it's our entire class. NTs are punishment oriented, and always have been.

    AO at release:
    You can have nukes that do less than average damage, but they're going to taunt giving you aggro you cannot handle.

    Later:
    To handle that aggro NS2 will give you a defensive barrier that will make you impervious to damage, but you won't be able to move, and your RRF will cancel so you'll be even more susceptible to damage after the nano ends. Furthermore, you can only use this periodically, so between NS2 casts you'll have to just nuke 2 or 3 times per fight with taunt nukes, and use low damage nukes the rest of the time.

    With SL:
    A new line of nanos that do not taunt should let you play a more consistent role in teams. Punishment time. You will no longer be able to use a weapon, and insta-casting is a thing of the past. You now have to stand there casting so that you can be interrupted. Also, each new nuke is level locked, and generally is good for far less damage than any RK nuke you would otherwise be able to cast. As a parting gift, all mobs now have unbelievable ACs and you'll be hitting them for minimum damage on every cast, forever. Higher min-damage weapons have been given to every other class in the game, but you my friend will need to go ahead and continue using the same stuff.

    With AI:
    New dots should help increase your overall damage output! Time for the bad news. All dots until the very last few actually lower your damage output due to enormous cast times and very low damage from the dots. With that established, please help yourself to somewhere around 25,000 alien kills before you can begin to feel any real benefits from AI.


    Haven't we had enough punishment? Can't we just get a break?

    I've been on LFT in Inferno for two hours, which has given me ample time to write this. No one wants an NT in their team. No one should want an NT in their team.
    Probably Untitled "Tantrum"
    Proud Member of Whatever

  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Mekura View Post
    AO at release:
    You can have nukes that do less than average damage, but they're going to taunt giving you aggro you cannot handle.
    Not true. The taunt on RK nukes was a "feature" added around the time SL was released.

  3. #3
    Another thing with this idea of punishment oriented things that FC gives us, is program overload having a chance of crashing your ncu for 30 seconds. Its kinda ironic that we are so underpowered in so many ways yet every advance we get seems to have these large problems associated with their use.

    It would be funny if using cocoon had a chance of making your weapons not work for 30+ seconds, or if battle group heal had a chance of dotting you or something. I dunno, these are things that bare looking at imo.

    Along the lines of the new nano, even though the recharge is better on it, something still needs to be done imo with the lock time on the offensive version. 30 minutes is just way too too much.
    Steveo 220 Clan NT RK2
    Contagion 220 Clan Doc RK2


    Proud wielder of the Pitchfork of Satenia

  4. #4
    NTs today have major problems. That wasn't the case at ao release though.

    The hard cap on nuke range was put in because NT nuke range was extreme. It was possible to nuke someone who couldn't even see you, which eventually led to a hard cap.

    Even with that in place, NT on RK were an interesting class - nanodelta didn't let people run around using nanos forever without running dry, so PNH, calms, good damage (by pre SL standards), roots, warps . . . NT's had a great toolset going.

    Today, its totally another story though. ;-/
    Slimsobe retired 220 opifex trader General of New Movement
    Oneeyedjim 175 nanomage crat


    "You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing."

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Keldros View Post
    Not true. The taunt on RK nukes was a "feature" added around the time SL was released.
    To be fair, as I remember it, all the nukes had their taunts the entire time. It's why people used LDI and warmth instead of IEF, even though they could insta-cast it. The database site only displayed the taunt later in an upgrade (either to the way auno's database retrieved the information, or in the way the information was stored) which confirmed what people had been saying on the forum all along: Nukes taunt with more than just damage. It was 5~ years ago, so my memory grows fuzzier as we continue, but this is how I recall it.
    Last edited by Mekura; Aug 25th, 2006 at 01:37:18.
    Probably Untitled "Tantrum"
    Proud Member of Whatever

  6. #6
    No I dont think so. They added it in later. I remember being told that they would before sl came out.

  7. #7
    Digging through some old database dumps, and it looks like we may both be right. IEF had its taunt long before notum wars. LDI and the other nukes got their taunt around SL, like you said. The point remains unchanged: Everything NTs get is dipped in some flavor of punishment as if to preserve some otherwise long-abandoned balance. The only thing that has been preserved, though, is our spot on the "professions not worth playing" list.
    Probably Untitled "Tantrum"
    Proud Member of Whatever

  8. #8
    I'm beginning to think playing an NT is leading me to clinical depression.
    ----------------------------------

    that is very apt

    there are a couple classes in this game that just because of the class you picked you will have a painful hard time getting teams, respect, and progressing forward

    NT is at the top of that short list of classes people don't really want to team with

    just thank god you (probably) didn't play before they upgraded the calms, NT couldn't calm for donkey balls in shadowlands and we were supposed to be damage dealers in teams

    getting teams was like mainlining liquid pain

    good luck to you .... sometimes it helps if you keep all this in mind, helps put things in perspective a bit more

    sometimes not though

  9. #9
    Another thing with this idea of punishment oriented things that FC gives us, is program overload having a chance of crashing your ncu for 30 seconds. Its kinda ironic that we are so underpowered in so many ways yet every advance we get seems to have these large problems associated with their use.

    It would be funny if using cocoon had a chance of making your weapons not work for 30+ seconds, or if battle group heal had a chance of dotting you or something. I dunno, these are things that bare looking at imo.
    ----------------------------------------------------------------------------

    that would be hilarious --- how about cocoon having a small chance of giving you negative ACs for 10s

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Steveo View Post
    program overload having a chance of crashing your ncu for 30 seconds.
    I have that crash lasting upwards of 60 seconds most the time.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  11. #11
    Also, FC punishes us with neglect.. we have the longest bug list, and more than half of them are simple database udpates or small fixes from a programming stance.. sure you may say "Ah those bugs don't affect my personal game style that much" but It may affect other's.. and It certainly angers me that a Dev can be proud of the NT profession with so many loose ends left dangling like ****ey sausages in a deli..

    We have several perk lines that are broken (either no affect, or affect the NT instead of the target), and a nano perk line that requires an attack rating to use!! WTF FC get on the ball, communicate and fix..
    Quote Originally Posted by Silirrion View Post
    We wouldn't make the nano in the first place if we didn't feel that it would be useful and at the very least a decent addition to any given professions nano listing.
    Quote Originally Posted by Abalz
    LOL

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Keldros View Post
    Not true. The taunt on RK nukes was a "feature" added around the time SL was released.

    Existing taunts on RK nukes were doubled at the release of SL to encourage the use of SL nukes. I can pull aggro of a CHing doc with EC...
    Peace $ Love, Inc. - Since April 2002

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Yesiamstoned View Post
    Existing taunts on RK nukes were doubled at the release of SL to encourage the use of SL nukes. I can pull aggro of a CHing doc with EC...
    No, a bunch of nukes, mainly the highlevel ones, had a taunt stat added with patch 15 in preparation for SL.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Mastabata View Post
    No, a bunch of nukes, mainly the highlevel ones, had a taunt stat added with patch 15 in preparation for SL.
    No..Nukes that already had taunt had them massively increased and some nukes with no taunts had them added. There was ALOT of fuss about this at the time.
    Peace $ Love, Inc. - Since April 2002

  15. #15
    Because FC wanted to force the Nt to use the cyberdeck nukes

    but when you play a Froob NT this is a huge nerv

    Exchange:[Trader.LVL: 209 AI: 19] [E] [D]

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Yesiamstoned View Post
    No..Nukes that already had taunt had them massively increased and some nukes with no taunts had them added. There was ALOT of fuss about this at the time.
    I checked the DB for this yesterday when posting that. There was no increase in the amount of taunt that the nukes did. Some had taunts added, but alot of low lvl nukes didn't get taunt added.
    Thor Mastablasta Hammersmith - Level 220, AI 30, LE 70 Clan Atrox Nano Technician - Setup
    The Red Brotherhood

    I'm a Nano-Technician, don't ever expect me to fight unbuffed, alone or fair.

    Means: about f'ing time :P
    Satenia: heresy <3
    Znore: Mastablasta <3
    Kinkstaah: I have agro from many mobs ;(
    Madarab: we are aoe class, we are supose to use pistols
    Marxgorm: the NT toolset does not fit into my raiding tactics

  17. #17
    I'd trade my Trader for an NT in a heartbeat!

    Anywho, I've decided I'm going to level my NT again, solitus.. since I do like nuking things, and well.. even though NT's aren't the "uberest," I've always liked them.. and well.. I like nukes, at least they land compared to my perks!

    Anywho still hope for faster nukes in LE/etc... or a way to not make damage put upon someone take quite so long..
    "Ignorance is bliss."
    Phat'est Trader on Rimor
    Phat = Pretty Hot and Tempting.
    Entrepreneur Grandmaster "Chacapo" Baiter - Forever Nerfed
    Also known as 'Poir'
    Clanners will be crushed!
    Omni-Tek shall prevail!
    One of the First Traders on Rimor To Have Nanobot Defense and Grand Theft Humidity

  18. #18
    NS2:

    Warps a region of space around the nanotechnician, creating a molecule-thick region of null space. This sphere of null space stops all damage from reaching the nanotechnician, but is controlled by the nanobot cloud to permit entry of beneficial nano bots. Due to the nature of this sphere, however, the nanotechnician is unable to move whilst the nullity sphere exists.

    This is one of those bugs that has been pissing me off for years. See how it says all Damage? As in... ALL DAMAGE? See how it says beneficial nanobots? As in.... BENEFICIAL NANOBOTS? Point is reflects get through, I don't care what the reason is, thats damage hitting me, totally contradictory of the description. And I don't know who the idiot was that decided roots where a beneficial nanobot.

    Really, what we need is the nuke times to be reversed, like a 1 second cast with a 2-3 second recharge, and a pistol or something that we combine with the Deck that would allow us to cast deck nukes and shoot during the downtime. And a fix to above would be nice. Or even a "Supercharged nano crystal : Resonance Blast"
    it wouldn't have to do as much dmg as IU, because we could slap some AI pistols or something on. Wich would make the AI dots viable since you can use those without a deck. Just my 2 cents.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by shadowdex View Post

    Really, what we need is the nuke times to be reversed, like a 1 second cast with a 2-3 second recharge,

    Nah, faster recharge = good.
    Want triples nerfed? Here is what you can do (Don't be so retarded to apply this to todays game)

    Server 1sts: Only NT, and probably non-doc to solo LOTV.
    First LB member to recieve org forum and guest chat ban on departure <3


    [Neophyte soldier]: I can see your nukes ignore AMS, keep doing it noob, I'm petitioning as we speak!

    WTB 2 Fixes for grafts
    PVP roots for all rooting classes

    Currently forced to enjoy RK4 (broken PC), I'll be back soon.

  20. #20
    I've been saying it for at least a year- if we're supposed to be a) damage dealers with b) little or no defensive capabilities, then what we need for teamability is a Team-Empowered nanoline... a set of nukes that has little or no benefical use while soloing, but increases significantly when teamed.

    For example, if Izgimmer's Ultimatum does 4826-8950 points of damage (a little more with various nano efficiency perks/items), then the "Team-Empowered Izgimmer's Ultimatum" should do 6326-7550 points of damage plus 1000 points or (20% more) per member of the NT's team.

    This way an NT in a full team would truly be a damage dealer without becoming an "über soloer" like Funcom's love child, the Adventurer, continue to fulfill their role as a near-completely defenseless character class (as intended), and still make us totally gimped in PvP (thanks to the 40% damage limit- also as intended).
    Christine "Crisalys" Kochanski 220/30/70 Nanomage Nano-Technician

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