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Thread: High end fixer Weapons – The Alien Dimension

  1. #21
    I can verify that ACs make no difference unless they are 0 for the SMG.
    (it still pwns tho )
    Jollzwhin 220 Fixer
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  2. #22
    at high levels it is possible to rech MR reqs for 2x QL 300s even without points in ambidex.
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Ladykatt
    One comment/observation...it seems to me that for the QL, the SPB (which is only ql200) is still a really good weapon. All the other weapons are significantly higher in ql. I'm not really good at the damage comparisons, but at what ql dual-wielding the machine pistols would you start to outdamage the SPB?
    I am curious about this as well? Should I stick with my 200 Beamer until 200+? I am looking at getting into QL180-190 Machine Pistols - Type 5 but according to the calculations on aodb, Im better off with my SPB.

    Any thoughts?
    ~ Atreyu03

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  4. #24
    Awesome info Zura, great research.
    If you look at the type 4 aliens SMG's they have a 3% chance to cast "glory" on the wearer. This buff seems to give you a slight increase in add all off for 2 minutes (18, 24, 30 or 36). This is so little that it will probably not make any difference at all.

    I do like that we as fixers have been given a few good options of weapons to chose from. Thank you FC

    It would be interesting to see how a qtl 300 metropol blaster ,using T.I.M scope at full def, will perform in a PvP situasjon compared to the new alien guns. Is there any way to simulate this ? Concidering most players got lower fire ac than energy.
    I do not kill with my gun; he who kills with his gun has forgotten the face of his father.
    I kill with my heart.
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  5. #25
    Actually all the Kyr'Ozch guns, when modified with a bio, gains the Glory proc. Its kinda nice because its always on pvm if you keep fighitng, pvp its hard to land enough shots to even land the proc, and much less keep it going for anything more than the 2 mins it lasts.

    Wouldn't be that hard to do a calulation for the City Blaster just try it in the 5k AC part of the test, I'll leave the calculation of that to the math guru though hehe.

    Thanks again for the info zuru, rock on.
    Morph - TAG Kingpin

  6. #26
    This is slightly off-topic, since it doesn't deal specifically with Alien weapons but with high-end fixer weapons in general. I would like to see a comparison of the damage (using the same parameters as you did for the tests on the other guns) of the QL 240 Syndicate Messenger Gun.

    People on Rimor are trying to sell the CSMG as if it's worth 2 or 3 times as much as the QL 240 SMG, but I suspect that until your AR goes well above 1600 you won't notice much of a difference between the two guns.

    So if you have time, I'd love to see the results of the 240 posted alongside the 260 and the 200 SPB, etc.

    Thanks

    Smurph
    level 200 fixer, Rimor

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by smurph
    People on Rimor are trying to sell the CSMG as if it's worth 2 or 3 times as much as the QL 240 SMG, but I suspect that until your AR goes well above 1600 you won't notice much of a difference between the two guns.
    Actually unless you break 1600 AR you won't see any difference at all for the simple fact that there is none (unless maybe it's in the weapons own intrinsic crit chance, if there even is such a thing).

    TBH I don't see what you are seeing though, in fact the last few sales I've seen the 240 went for more then the higher QLs (although I haven't seen a 260 being sold in a while) - which is to be expected since there are more people who can fit the lower ones then the higher ones, so demand for the 240 will be highest.

  8. #28
    Thanks for the reply. You have confirmed my su****ions about the lower QL SMG being better. Guess the 2 people who are selling on the forums as I write this will be lucky if they get the +/-300 mil they are asking for min bid (550-600 mil BO!). And I talked to a guy yesterday who was lucky enough to sell a CSMG for 550mil! Crazy, eh?

    Admittedly, I'm new to the market so my observations have only been from this week. Guess I'll just have to be patient, or break down and go camping for one with a few high-level friends until the prices get a little more sane.

  9. #29
    Regarding SMG vs CSMG, Moscatinka is 100% correct. There is no difference in the damage done by a QL240 SMG, compared to a QL260 CSMG unless you have more than 1600 attack rating. And even beyond 1600 attack rating the difference is not really that significant, due to the fact that above 1k attack rating only having limited impact on damage multiplier.

    The aprox difference in effectiveness, past 1600 attack rating is as follows (damage done by QL240 SMG and QL260 CSMG, vs a 10k AC opponent, with no add-damage items):



    ------------------------- Damage normal hit ------ Damage critcal hit
    ---------------------- QL240 - QL260 - Diff ---- QL240 - QL260 - Diff
    @ 1600 attack rating: -- 791 --- 791 ---- 0 ----- 2967 -- 2967 ---- 0
    @ 1700 attack rating: -- 791 --- 800 ---- 9 ----- 2967 -- 3001 --- 34
    @ 1800 attack rating: -- 791 --- 808 --- 17 ----- 2967 -- 3029 --- 62
    @ 1900 attack rating: -- 791 --- 814 --- 23 ----- 2967 -- 3053 --- 86
    @ 2000 attack rating: -- 791 --- 828 --- 37 ----- 2967 -- 3104 -- 134
    Zura
    Fixer of Rubi-Ka 1
    Me - Stuff

  10. #30

    curious...

    would a Kyr'Ozch MP type 5 in ON hand and a lower ql type 12 in the OFF hand be feasible??? That way you have fling, burst, AND full auto available??

    just curious if this would be worth doing.

    thx ahead of time,

    Val
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  11. #31
    Cant dual weild the type 12 gun so not possible

    MP is SMG/burst or SMG/burst /Fling AND dual weild

    The K'o SMG is SMG/burst or SMG/burst/fling or SMG/burst/fling/FA or SMG/burst/FA AND not dual weild
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  12. #32
    this is great.. it gives me exactly the info i need to know where to go with my lil fixer.. and in fact looking at that dmg it's something that really wants me to get in game and get my fixer higher to get him some of that stuff.

    thank you Zura

  13. #33
    Ok, I have finally gotten around to do the “how well does various guns perform at various skill levels” comparison. Info and comments are posted at the start of this thread, but since both the posts I have there are dangerously close to overflooding, I had to stick the comparison table vs low AC opponents here:

    Edit: for clarity I repost the high AC results and skill extrapolation rules here as well, as just the low AC damage table by itself was somewhat pulled out of context. I hope the forum police forgives me .-)

    Extrapolation rules:

    Attack rating (AR) = same as SMG skill when equipping the gun (meaning: you get a wrangle to get the weapon on, and after the wrangle runs out you have enough AddAllOffence items and perks to keep attack rating at the same value as your SMG skill when wrangled).
    Ranged init = 70% of AR
    Burst = 65% of AR (75% in regards to equipping, as burst is easily buffable)
    Fling = 50% of AR (55% in regards to equipping)
    Full auto =60% of AR (also 60% in regards to equipping - very little FA buffs out there. And those items that are available, you will very likely wish to use all the time if you decide to go the FA route).
    Multi Ranged = 75% of AR.
    Scope = TIM, 3%, 6% or 9%, as needed to get max speed on full def (or close to full def) on 1/1 weapons. The comparison assumes you tune the aggression bar up on slower weapons so you keep firing at 1/1 speed. Please note that the Manex always uses a TIM since its not possible to reach (or even get close to) 1/1 speed on full agg with any other scope.
    Damage buff = 150+(AR/13). Simulates 2 x Arul Saba + common damage add gear at various skill levels sort of ok-ish.
    Low AC target: AC = 2 x AR.
    High AC target: AC = 8 x AR.

    Damage table vs high AC opponents

    Base values
    Attack rating -------------- .1200 .1300 .1400 .1500 .1600 .1700 .1800
    Ranged init ---------------- .1020 .1090 .1160 ..923 ..993 ..915 ..985
    Burst ---------------------- ..780 ..845 ..910 ..975 .1040 .1105 .1170
    Fling ---------------------- ..600 ..650 ..700 ..750 ..800 ..850 ..900
    Full auto ------------------ ..720 ..780 ..840 ..900 ..960 .1020 .1080
    Multi ranged --------------- ..900 ..975 .1050 .1125 .1200 .1275 .1350
    Crit chance (base + gear) -- ..5 % ..5 % ..5 % ..7 % ..7 % .10 % .10 %
    Damage added --------------- ..242 ..250 ..258 ..265 ..273 ..281 ..288
    Target AC ------------------ .9600 10400 11200 12000 12800 13600 14400

    Weapons and damage
    Syndicate Messenger -------- 49248 50448 51838 54138 55100 57948 58720
    City Blaster / Influencer -- 30465 34843 37878 40958 43708 47230 46143
    Perinnium Beamer ----------- 38295 41520 44998 46213 46593 47513 47845
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 4 ------ 32260 34950 40138 46140 51865 55913 59085
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 5 ------ 35516 38478 43958 51151 57212 61726 65229
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 12 ----- 26481 28930 33008 37502 42082 45707 48594
    Kyr'Ozch MP - Type 4 ------- 34595 37280 41890 44570 46655 51880 54900
    Kyr'Ozch MP - Type 5 ------- 37683 40608 45486 49269 51666 57290 60612
    Fantaghiro BBI-Viral ------- 21176 22674 25718 29428 32819 40451 41467
    Blinded Blackbirds --------- 39750 38405 36485 34788 32828 33205 33608
    Manex Catastrophe ---------- 30392 31563 32870 33646 36564 35486 35459

    vs high AC, continued

    Base values
    Attack rating -------------- .1900 .2000 .2100 .2200 .2300 .2400
    Ranged init ---------------- .1055 ..960 .1030 .1100 .1170 .1213
    Burst ---------------------- .1235 .1300 .1365 .1430 .1495 .1560
    Fling ---------------------- ..950 .1000 .1050 .1100 .1150 .1200
    Full auto ------------------ .1140 .1200 .1260 .1320 .1380 .1440
    Multi ranged --------------- .1425 .1500 .1575 .1650 .1725 .1800
    Crit chance (base + gear) -- .10 % .13 % .13 % .13 % .13 % .13 %
    Damage added --------------- ..296 ..304 ..312 ..319 ..327 ..335
    Target AC ------------------ 15200 16000 16800 17600 18400 19200

    Weapons and damage
    Syndicate Messenger -------- 59445 62650 63030 63363 63743 64123
    City Blaster / Influencer -- 45055 45108 44793 45078 45238 43568
    Perinnium Beamer ----------- 48225 49115 49495 49828 50208 50588
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 4 ------ 62383 67128 68595 70425 72083 73313
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 5 ------ 69954 75343 76989 80275 82163 84847
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 12 ----- 51564 55380 58401 61380 64462 67613
    Kyr'Ozch MP - Type 4 ------- 63080 69743 77523 79560 81463 83078
    Kyr'Ozch MP - Type 5 ------- 70108 77348 85290 88667 90788 93770
    Fantaghiro BBI-Viral ------- 42389 44940 45903 46812 47793 48784
    Blinded Blackbirds --------- 34068 34848 35308 35710 36170 36630
    Manex Catastrophe ---------- 34347 34250 34085 32870 31690 30510


    Damage table vs low AC opponents

    Base values
    Attack rating -------------- .1200 .1300 .1400 .1500 .1600 .1700 .1800
    Ranged init ---------------- .1020 .1090 .1160 ..923 ..993 ..915 ..985
    Burst ---------------------- ..780 ..845 ..910 ..975 .1040 .1105 .1170
    Fling ---------------------- ..600 ..650 ..700 ..750 ..800 ..850 ..900
    Full auto ------------------ ..720 ..780 ..840 ..900 ..960 .1020 .1080
    Multi ranged --------------- ..900 ..975 .1050 .1125 .1200 .1275 .1350
    Crit chance (base + gear) -- ..5 % ..5 % ..5 % ..7 % ..7 % .10 % .10 %
    Damage added --------------- ..242 ..250 ..258 ..265 ..273 ..281 ..288
    Target AC ------------------ .2400 .2600 .2800 .3000 .3200 .3400 .3600

    Weapons and damage
    Syndicate Messenger -------- 54575 55538 56738 58813 59460 62035 62398
    City Blaster / Influencer -- 47205 53968 58458 63263 67528 72985 73413
    Perinnium Beamer ----------- 53128 57195 61658 62988 62863 63548 63375
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 4 ------ 34200 37120 42778 49185 55340 59668 63078
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 5 ------ 37652 40868 46850 54527 61047 65874 69640
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 12 ----- 26481 28930 33008 37502 42082 45707 48594
    Kyr'Ozch MP - Type 4 ------- 34595 37280 41890 44570 46655 51940 55020
    Kyr'Ozch MP - Type 5 ------- 37683 40608 45486 49269 51666 57359 60751
    Fantaghiro BBI-Viral ------- 35744 39027 44895 52157 58678 71721 72521
    Blinded Blackbirds --------- 61170 61630 61475 61903 61748 62513 62300
    Manex Catastrophe ---------- 39986 42354 44945 47069 52572 52508 54035

    vs low AC, continued

    Base values
    Attack rating -------------- .1900 .2000 .2100 .2200 .2300 .2400
    Ranged init ---------------- .1055 ..960 .1030 .1100 .1170 .1213
    Burst ---------------------- .1235 .1300 .1365 .1430 .1495 .1560
    Fling ---------------------- ..950 .1000 .1050 .1100 .1150 .1200
    Full auto ------------------ .1140 .1200 .1260 .1320 .1380 .1440
    Multi ranged --------------- .1425 .1500 .1575 .1650 .1725 .1800
    Crit chance (base + gear) -- .10 % .13 % .13 % .13 % .13 % .13 %
    Damage added --------------- ..296 ..304 ..312 ..319 ..327 ..335
    Target AC ------------------ .3800 .4000 .4200 .4400 .4600 .4800

    Weapons and damage
    Syndicate Messenger -------- 62713 65663 65538 65365 65240 65085
    City Blaster / Influencer -- 73840 75948 77178 78978 80713 80558
    Perinnium Beamer ----------- 63250 63905 63780 63608 63453 63328
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 4 ------ 66565 71810 73058 74793 76308 77270
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 5 ------ 74646 80602 82001 85257 86983 89431
    Kyr'Ozch SMG - Type 12 ----- 51564 55380 58401 61380 64462 67613
    Kyr'Ozch MP - Type 4 ------- 63230 70150 77638 79560 81463 83078
    Kyr'Ozch MP - Type 5 ------- 70286 77800 85416 88667 90788 93770
    Fantaghiro BBI-Viral ------- 73091 75908 76456 76980 77565 78099
    Blinded Blackbirds --------- 62145 62870 62715 62463 62308 62153
    Manex Catastrophe ---------- 53969 55520 57095 56960 56890 56790
    Last edited by Zura; Nov 4th, 2004 at 10:27:41.
    Zura
    Fixer of Rubi-Ka 1
    Me - Stuff

  14. #34
    Given that the reqs on the aliens SMGs are far higher per QL of the gun compared to beamers...

    ...which would be better the QL200 Superior Perrenium Beamer or a QL150 Kyr'Ozch Submachine Gun - Type 5 ?
    Nighthaunter - Opifex Shade Member of Unity of the Rose
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  15. #35
    Anyone got a clue on what ql Machine pistols will Od a ql 240 SMG?
    with 1,7k+ AR
    Im using a ql 240 SMG atm, and I wonder.. caue a 270-280 MP has like 1800 reqs or w/e, wich I could use.. afaik.. Just dont know what ql it would be worth it

  16. #36
    AFAIK the data is theorethical. in practice numbers will be different. in practice low AC mobs have low evades. and high AR = more crits. so i think crit dmg is underestimated here.
    vega2 RK2 fixer 213/13
    Unit Member of Genesis


  17. #37
    A QL 200 Beamer outperforms a QL 150 Kyr SMG Type 5 greatly. You need a much higher QL Alien gun for the Kyr SMG to be better than the Beamer. As you point out Nighthaunter, the wield requirements on the Alien weapons are quite steep, and as a rule of thumb I would say : stay away from alien weapons until you can wield QL 220+ (maybe even higher!).

    And Jupp Vega, of course the data is theoretical :-) Increased crit chance due to shooting at mobs with lousy evade certainly will skew the data in favor of weapons with high crit modifiers (such as the CSMG). Also, individual variation in skill levels may make the information errorus for you (for instance : if you could get higher Multi Range than what is assumed in the table, then you could wear a higher QL off hand Machine pistol much earlier than what is assumed in the table - thus boosting mid table Machine pistol damage). That being said, however, the tables should give some reasonable aproximations of how well the "best" fixer guns compare at various skill levels :-)

    Charfbiz2, at 1700-1800 SMG skill a Machine Pistol dual combo will compare well with a QL 240 SMG. Wether it will actually be more powerful would depend on your crit setup (SMG kick ass at high crit settings!), and if you can cap the burst recycle on the Machine Pistol (1375 burst skill required).
    Last edited by Zura; Nov 4th, 2004 at 10:28:59.
    Zura
    Fixer of Rubi-Ka 1
    Me - Stuff

  18. #38
    Yeah, Well I dont have the ultimate crit setup.. I guess I should be looking for MPs for next lvl then

  19. #39

    Smile

    Thanks Zura
    Nighthaunter - Opifex Shade Member of Unity of the Rose
    Nightspeeder - Solitus Fixer Member of Unity of the Rose

    On Test

    LilMissFixer - Solitus Fixer
    Synner - Opifex MA

    "Sharp and Pointy on the outside, Soft and Squishy underneath"

  20. #40
    QL260 Conflagrant Syndicate Messenger Gun vs 4000 AC opponent
    R-hand damage: 30 reg shots @ 1490 damage, 7 bursts @ 2968 damage,
    Total damage: 65473 points @ 0 % agg


    just noticed. i want to see someone hits for 1.5k with CSMG without reinforced slugs or some outside buffs. the damage simulator seems to be slightly wrong.
    vega2 RK2 fixer 213/13
    Unit Member of Genesis


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