Time is overdue to fix healing vs non-healing PvP.

**_______________Fryli** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 01:53:33

Originally posted by Dasin
but you dont understand fryli buffs shouldnt be affected since they arent used in battle for example i doubt a enforcer would essence himself in the middle of a duel.

thats totally different from nanos like heals and attack nanos which are designed to be used in battle

No sorry i fail to understand how this can be any diffrent...?
A shield that u cast before or in battle, layer casted before battle...still they woork 100 like heals do. You seems to neglect that fact, and my way of counter dmg is to heal, others have layers, shield, Mongo ++...

**outlawgimp** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 02:17:51

so by your reconing fryli attack nanos should therefore be made 100 percent since they all function like heals no?

NT) you attack ure enemy with izgimmers flame (do direct damage to them but lose nano and gain no life)

or

Doc) you heal yourself (repair the damage taken from a nano like izgimmers flame or gun but do no damage and lose nano)

as you can all see there is no difference between attack nanos and healing nanos. some nanos do damage thus hurting ure opponent and some heal u hurting ure oponent in that they have to hit you more.

thus they should have capped healing at 50 % when they did the same to nts attack nanos

**_______________Fryli** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 02:41:32

Lol, yea...whatever....

**outlawgimp** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 02:43:56

when you cant argue you can always troll as they say huh fryli

**_______________Fryli** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 02:46:26

Originally posted by Dasin
when you cant argue you can always troll as they say huh fryli

Well i did feed u did'nt i?

**georg** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 08:01:41

hmm.. Dasin go away

oh btw "newsflash"

Soldier + heavy suppressor --> alot more dead docs, unless there are some major bracers at work.

**______________Pie314** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 09:36:58

Originally posted by Bionitrous

Wanna kill the Doc? 5 Soldiers Alpha Strike to the head.

I've seen it done and the doc still walk away alive. At least until the doc ran into the agent sitting near the bunker

**outlawgimp** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 10:54:30

keep trolling fryli thats all you can do i guess...

poor guy

**Letah** · Jun 23rd, 2002, 11:13:03

Originally posted by Dasin
keep trolling fryli thats all you can do i guess...

poor guy

you're the poor guy here, ignorant of how docs work, play I doc to 150 i suggest, then report back. Until then your replies hold no value at all.

Cloud, ever heard of lucky shots? Its not a lot that a doc crits, even less then a soldier because of our AR. basic maths.

**outlawgimp** · Jun 24th, 2002, 02:17:08

lol get real

since when do you guys have lvl 150 sold, enforcer, crats alts yet you still post on topics regarding them.

that must make all your posts have no value too hmm....

**______________Pie314** · Jun 24th, 2002, 05:25:43

Example of how bracers pretty much ruin PvP

Tonight in the ENT arena, lots of Trinity players showed up and did some 1/2 duels and weapons testing. Kiantirsa was nice enough to let me do some alpha tests on her.

Using a Ql200 Westinghouse with 925 attack rating (and MoP) against Kians 72% energy reflect in a PvP situation yeilded the following results

Alpha #: Fling / Burst / FullAuto

1: 205 / 379 / 294
2: 112 / 143 / 795
3: 95 / 321 / 173
4: 26 / 521 / 461
5: 216 / 462 / 399
6: 142 / 200 / 655
7: 141 / 356 / 316
8: 173 / 421 / 210
9: 74 / 312 / 473
10: 128 / 129 / 821

I got bored after 40min and stopped there.... i think you get the point so far.

Avg damage:
Fling: 132.2
Burst: 324.4
FA: 459.7

Total Alpha Average: 915

Inc omparison my record alpha on a mob with the same gun and skill is 18.2k

Little unbalanced don't ya think? Don't see exactly how i, as a soldier, supposivly insta-kill people left right and center.
Of course, if you don't belive me feel free to ask Kiantirsa or Keldrys or Biggie3 or Zxibi7 or anyond else from Trinity. Half the guild was there.

Im sure by now you can see Caol's point about healing VS reflect. Healing in PvP just outdoes the reflect. When someone can unload all that damage but have it cut down to 14% effectiveness (28% through RRF and 2 bracers, then that halved) while the reciever can heal it up with 100% effectiveness, whats the point in even bothering.

If you completly got rid of shields/bracers but decided to scale the healing up so that the same imbalance would be maintained, a normal 1k heal would now become a +7142 heal. (100% / 14% effectiveness = a factor of 7.142. 1k heal * factor = +7142 heal)

**________________Caol** · Jun 24th, 2002, 08:56:39

Originally posted by Pie314
Example of how bracers pretty much ruin PvP

Excellent post, Nugget. Excellent.

**________________Caol** · Jun 24th, 2002, 09:03:47

Originally posted by Dasin
so by your reconing fryli attack nanos should therefore be made 100 percent since they all function like heals no?

NT) you attack ure enemy with izgimmers flame (do direct damage to them but lose nano and gain no life)

or

Doc) you heal yourself (repair the damage taken from a nano like izgimmers flame or gun but do no damage and lose nano)

as you can all see there is no difference between attack nanos and healing nanos. some nanos do damage thus hurting ure opponent and some heal u hurting ure oponent in that they have to hit you more.

thus they should have capped healing at 50 % when they did the same to nts attack nanos

Yep. Basic maths...

**______________Pie314** · Jun 24th, 2002, 09:06:01

Originally posted by Caol

Excellent post, Nugget. Excellent.

/bow

TY, TY

First i'd like to thank the academy, Kiantirsa for letting me shoot her...

**14 min later**

... and finally the people behind the scenes who made it all possible.

j/k

**outlawgimp** · Jun 24th, 2002, 09:32:23

lol ad love to see the docs counter that nice post man

**outlawgimp** · Jun 24th, 2002, 09:35:04

thats why 100 percent healing was only fair when damage was also 100 percent

if you reduce the damage to 50 percent then the healing is far superior

100% (healing) = 100% (damage)

thats fair

100% (healing) = 50% (damage)

urr how much simpler maths do you docs need

**_______________Fryli** · Jun 24th, 2002, 10:03:48

Originally posted by Dasin
thats why 100 percent healing was only fair when damage was also 100 percent

if you reduce the damage to 50 percent then the healing is far superior

100% (healing) = 100% (damage)

thats fair

100% (healing) = 50% (damage)

urr how much simpler maths do you docs need

Rolf, yea i agree to healing being powerfull , but so are all those shields, mongo, layers and NOT to mention those insane overpowered bracers ( yea, i got a ton of them). It's not like only healing got stronger with 50/40, u are pretty ignorant if u cant see that those other defensive buffs got stronger to.

Now bring back 100% dmg, so i can instakill ur sry NT every time...

Tell me why u dont want bracers gone? is it because u can use them urself to make ur toon "uber"? instead u want to nerf the healingabilities of lots of professions because we give u a hard time in pvp?

**outlawgimp** · Jun 24th, 2002, 10:26:44

sigh when did i say i didnt want bracers gone bud, you imagining things now too huh?

and why do you keep talking about shields mongos etc,

dont you understand? reducing your healing to 50% would make it like it was before damage being nerfed since its would make it on par as in

damage = 50% (as it currently is)
healing = 50 % (as it should be)

it was 100 damage /100 healing before nerf

so what the hell are you complaining about shields, mongos for you retard?

another way to make it simpler for you bud since i dont think you can understand it is,

make damage 100 percent again it = the same result

**Letah** · Jun 24th, 2002, 10:56:24

Originally posted by Dasin
sigh when did i say i didnt want bracers gone bud, you imagining things now too huh?

and why do you keep talking about shields mongos etc,

dont you understand? reducing your healing to 50% would make it like it was before damage being nerfed since its would make it on par as in

damage = 50% (as it currently is)
healing = 50 % (as it should be)

it was 100 damage /100 healing before nerf

so what the hell are you complaining about shields, mongos for you retard?

another way to make it simpler for you bud since i dont think you can understand it is,

make damage 100 percent again it = the same result

I'm sure you can reply to Fryli, me and the other docs without lowering yourself to flames and insults? I'm not a "post-reporter" but I will if you don't heighten yourself to a level of decency and politeness. Calling someone a retard isnt going to help any discussion no? TY.

As Fryli said, heals are not DD, weapons, dd-nanos are. Heals increase your total health-output. 3 10k heals means a doc has HP+(10k*3) health total. 50% Reflect means that person has HP+(HP*0.50) health total. Layered means a person has HP+layered health total. Beginning to see how it works now?

So, YES, doctors have a LOT health, but our gimped damage and evades make-up for those. We have no layereds, reflects or mongo's. We have no 1k attack rating or cheap evade skills. We have no green weaponskills. We have no non-darkblue inits other then nano init. We have no tricks like enhancing AR, dmg, reflect for a short time (Enf, Ma, Sold).

Oh, yes, we can get a reflect-buff but thats the same as us healing you.

Oh and Fryli and me do not say whats "better" for soldiers, or cry nerf against that enf. No, we dont have other classes at 150+. But we don't cry nerf to them too. Search for my nick, you'll see I NEVER asked for a nerf. Now you do, you ask to nerf doctors while you have no knowledge at all about doctors, you base your knowledge on a few doc's that PvP. So can I base my decissions on the performance of Garv, Dankman and Syrah? I think you won't like that because that will cause a LOT nerfs. Yes, you're thinking the same now "those 3 soldiers are very good/uber eqped, they do not stand for the avg soldier".

Doctors that pvp 150+ are not many. The current active ones can be counted on 2 hands maximum.

Of course I'm "better" then a "normal" enforcer or soldier; I use equipement only 1 or 2 other docs in the game has; full MKII set, Prof Jones Vest, Shades, 2 eggs, all reflect bracers, dual luck rings etc. I know Auno has a Vest and pvp's but thats about it. Shouldnt I DESERVE an edge because I got great equipement?

We're "uber" according to you but any doc will tell you they now need 5mins to kill an enf/soldier. In that time you'll have all the time to run away; we cant root anyways. MP and Trader outright "own" us by stopping our heals; thus lowering our hp from HP+(amount*no_of_heals) to just "HP".

Before you start off to cry nerf either play a doc to 150 and pvp with her/him or base your knowledge after you pvp-ed 30 docs, docs that DONT pvp as well, not just, lets say, Auno, Fryli and me.

I look forward to your constructive reply.

**_______________Fryli** · Jun 24th, 2002, 11:06:24

Lol, flaming me realy builds up under ur arguments, it does not even deserve an response...

Yes, tell me why heals cant be compared with i.e shileds, mongo, layers...? Because ur arguements so far have not convinced me or other healers.

Now i.e take ur nt shield ACB wich absorbe 644 dmg, under 50/40 i will critt u for around 400 (first hit), under full dmg i would have hit u for about 1,6 k after ur layer absorbed dmg.
Now try convince me why we cant compare these kinds of buffs with heals, because frankly i cant see how only heals got stronger after 50/40 dmg. Same goes for i.e Mongo, with enfos shield and 1 Mongo the enfo can heal of 2-3 critts, under 100% dmg 1 Mongo barely healed of 1 critt...

Now...enlighten me.

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