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Thread: Time is overdue to fix healing vs non-healing PvP.

  1. #41
    Funny seeing all the docs who post here.

    Docs arent supposed to be able to beat soldiers in combat. If that was the case you wouldnt send soldiers out in combat would you? You would send docs, your army would consist of docs. This is ridiculous.

    I was strongly against nerfing crit buffs because I saw it would only unbalance PvP further, now that more and more ppl start to see the effect of bracers and RRFE we see how ridiculous it turns out. Of course FC tend to listen to whiners who dont know how to pay this game. There might be a reason some ppl whine more than others and it sometimes might very well be that they dont figure out how to play the game but others do. In this case its not but in the UVC case it was IMO.

    Instacast CH is just to powerful in a MMORPG. Takes no skill when you know you can instantly heal yourself from 20hp to 10000hp. In EQ you have 10second cast time on CH, you saw at once what cleric had skill and who hadnt, the unskilled would just spam lower heals in panic and run out of mana fighting a hard mob, while the other would heal very efficiently with well timed CHs. Now in AO when you can regen the nano needed to cast CH, before the person attacking can do more dmg than that CH heals then something is obviously totally unbalanced.

    Just nerfing reflects destroy PvM. PvM is balanced toward ppl having at least bracers (at least from the solo perspective which the box the game arrived in stated as a possibility), the fights are long enough to switch to right type of bracer. Personally I think reflects should be scaled down in percentage against PvP attacks and PvP attacks ONLY, while maybe lifting the 50% PvP cap a litte. And CH IMO needs to be nerfed a little so its no longer instacast, sorry to say it docs.

  2. #42

    A slight error...

    Quote from Julia Pomka
    Soldiers and enforsers do a bit mroe damge then doctors becasue of inbalance with wepons also have ability to restore/absorb damge but missing debuff.

    Since when did soldiers have any healing capability? I hope you arent referring to One More Hit Healing... the healing it does for the skills need makes it the pariah of soldier buffs. There simply isnt any reason for us to dump IP into BM.

    Since when do we outdamage doctors? The Itchacas crit far higher than the Nova and fire just as fast, with greater range.
    I may do more Dmg over time with a Nova and no crit buff, but the present high lvl docs all have high ql llts and plenty of ncu to spare for crit enhancing buffs.

    The suggestion that was made here to make Complete heal take more time to cast sounds great to me, but at the same time something must be done to up the damage output of the combat classes so that support classes cannot outdamage then as easily as they do now.

    Soldiers should be able to modify their energy rifles to do rad (or other type)dmg why else do we get a green weapon smith skill?

    Rad damage seems the most logical since the weapons we already use are energy based.

    This ability should be available at fairly high lvl so we have a chance to counter a player running RRF and bracers against energy attacks.

    As it is now, I wont bring Bear into pvp unless its a big pvp event in Camelot or 2HO.
    Legion
    Beartwo

    and a whole litter of bearcubs ...

    "Only the dead have seen the end of war." -- Plato
    "You see me now, a soldier, of a 1000 psychic wars...." -- Blue Oyster Cult

  3. #43
    Instakill is the only offence which can match instant CH.

  4. #44

    Re: A slight error...

    Originally posted by Beartwo
    [B]Quote from Julia Pomka

    The suggestion that was made here to make Complete heal take more time to cast sounds great to me, but at the same time something must be done to up the damage output of the combat classes so that support classes cannot outdamage then as easily as they do now.

    Do you ever think before you post?

    Sure lets make CH 12 seconds cast 12 seconds recharge...

    I would love to see you loosing 5millions+ XP becasue monster wasted you before doctor could save your butt with CH.

    Complite Heal is PvM life saver.

    And any way i see many posts here by peoploe who dont know anything about doctors probly... We dont outdamge soldier thanks to you 1000+ attack rating and range... who stops you from using River Series 6? Plus on top of that add light green ranged ini and ability to wear 15 scope and fire at full speed.

    Give me a break. Soldier will always aoutdamge me doesnt matter what buffs i got.
    Two sisters practicing medicine on Rubika and Shadowlands Pomy and Julka.

    As a doctor i would prescribe you to use some common sense and a vacation to Real Life"

    If i ever start a new character in Eve i will choose a name something like "aieerjjnnvajjnasdio11e3".

  5. #45
    for the tenth time it doesnt matter if a soldier has 1500 attack rating compared to a docs 850.

    with bracers (energy, projectile; heh easy to counter most damage types from guns since its either the 2 most times) and rrf combined with incredibly overpowered healing in pvp a soldier has .5 percent chance against a doc.

    WHY CANT YOU DOCS UNDERSTAND THIS BASIC PRINCIPLE

  6. #46

    umm...

    umm..what voy said.

    dont know about docs..just know i dont think i can kill one without crunch/he and garg and essence and ref and bracers. like fully completly buffed...and they DONT have he/cruch. i may stand a chance.

    i cant beat even lvl or higher soldiers. i cant beat a lvl 150 trader (well sometimes but not often). i cant beat lvl 170 soldiers (im 193). i know i cant beat lvl 200 enforcers. and im fairly certain i cant beat a lvl 180 enforcer but cant find any to duel me.

    MA heals dont need 50% because it takes 8 sec to recharge and only heals min dmg about 60% of the time.

    for that matter now i cant beat a lvl 180 agent with their new crit buff 100% and in trader for and with roots. cant even come close.

    i dont know why caol is sayin this..he is a damn NEOPHYTE for christ's sake.

    i can barely keep my apprentice anymore.

    if heals were nerfed us MAs wouldnt even come close to standing a chance againts sold, docs, agent, enf, trader even 40 lvls below us.

    i fought zerosignal in 2ho. i was doin 9 dmg with crits of 50. i changed fists mid fight...he changed bracers mid fight same thing. his tms and his crits and full auto basically owned me.

    nerf nerf nerf nerf nerf...thats all anyone cries about anymore cuz they cant win sometimes etc.

    bah sissies. you win some..you lose some.

  7. #47

    Re: Re: Re: Re: Time is overdue to fix healing vs non-healing PvP.

    Originally posted by Dr. Sent

    You should read all of that that too, not just the parts that suit you.

    Weak fields
    Combat through all means BESIDES nano programs.

    Strong fields
    HEALING
    Nano formula skills

    The Doctor is the master of keeping people alive, but can also turn his knowledge of living tissue into a DEADLY WEAPON.



    Y.A.W.S.

    So when I remove thee deadly nanos using Infernal Rage how does he/she still kill me?

    I only made one doc run, ever :| recenty.



  8. #48

    Re: umm...

    Originally posted by celestiness
    i dont know why caol is sayin this..he is a damn NEOPHYTE for christ's sake.
    Want to know why I am Neophyte? Go back and read my post.
    Mongo = heal. Heal = 100%. Dmg = 20%.

    What profession did I get most my points off? Soldiers.
    Why? Full deff, 30% RRF, 36% Bracers, 155 Dmg shield, 85 Reflect Dmg.

    What it comes down to is that soldiers hit me for <500 crits. They got hit for 250dmg each time they hit me. No matter if it was 40, or 500 crit. I used mongo. 180 hp every 2 sec. I cast 750 dmg layers. I used Nano+HP combo stims.

    I am not venting these ideas to make me more uber. I want soldiers to have a chance, and I want healers more balanced. (Yes Mongo makes me a healer. Not a good one, but a semi-good one).

    I am Neophyte because of imbalance. A stupid imbalance. Soon we will have the first doctor Neophyte. Because of imbalance. Stupid imbalance.
    Pfft!
    Rubi-Ka's FiRST Neophyte Enforcer - Holder of Spoon - Stirring the pot - Pumpkin' Pie anyone?
    >Wo "Caol" Ha - 187 ENF | >Thzunami - 97 MA | >Wo "Dioxy" Ha - 30 TRA | In memory of The Council

    Jayde's Item Database - All you'll ever need - http://aodb.info


    "BACK AWAY" - Pogobear / Skymarshal

  9. #49

  10. #50
    Originally posted by MSag
    Funny seeing all the docs who post here.

    Docs arent supposed to be able to beat soldiers in combat. If that was the case you wouldnt send soldiers out in combat would you? You would send docs, your army would consist of docs. This is ridiculous.


    This is the future.....
    Doctors Kill, And
    Soldiers Heal!

    Its true i tells ya :P

  11. #51

    doh

    Zero, now you're thinking like Funcom!

  12. #52
    Originally posted by Zerosignal



    This is the future.....
    Doctors Kill, And
    Soldiers Heal!

    Its true i tells ya :P
    U never know what the future is...

  13. #53

    Re: Re: A slight error...

    Originally posted by Julia Pomka



    Do you ever think before you post?

    Sure lets make CH 12 seconds cast 12 seconds recharge...

    I would love to see you loosing 5millions+ XP becasue monster wasted you before doctor could save your butt with CH.

    Complite Heal is PvM life saver.

    And any way i see many posts here by peoploe who dont know anything about doctors probly... We dont outdamge soldier thanks to you 1000+ attack rating and range... who stops you from using River Series 6? Plus on top of that add light green ranged ini and ability to wear 15 scope and fire at full speed.

    Give me a break. Soldier will always aoutdamge me doesnt matter what buffs i got.
    The problem isn't really CH in itself, or the time it takes to cast it. The problem is that with the right equipment and buff combinations, this nano can be chain casted for pretty much as long as it takes to kill anything.

    Even with easily accessible equipment and buffs (let's say without gaily painted hood, and with a lower HE/Crunch than the best ones) this nano can be used to instantly full heal the doc for at least 10 minutes straight.

    Is this too much? I will let you be the judge of that youself..

  14. #54
    Originally posted by MSag
    Funny seeing all the docs who post here.

    Docs arent supposed to be able to beat soldiers in combat. If that was the case you wouldnt send soldiers out in combat would you? You would send docs, your army would consist of docs. This is ridiculous.
    =-=

    Docs are the masters of staying alive, which makes sense. Ofcourse a class with arguably the best heals wont die that easily! Just like the fixers are masters of the grid(evac) ,having a way to prevent death, we have the complete heal. No soldier should be able to easily kill a doc. Docs are not masters in dealing damage, a soldier can only be killed by a doc if he stais around 3-5 minutes taking damage ;p (our 600-700 attack rating, depending on either ar/re or shotty, rocks). Oh, and soldiers can beat a doc, either be lucky with your alpha (crits), or time it at another point then the beginning of the fight..

    Funny how you can twist everything around no ?


    =-=
    Even with easily accessible equipment and buffs (let's say without gaily painted hood, and with a lower HE/Crunch than the best ones) this nano can be used to instantly full heal the doc for at least 10 minutes straight.
    =-=
    Go play a doc... the only times this happends is in a Doc vs Doc duel. its not like it has a nano requirement of 100 you are suggesting... Furthermore any doc without CH's ( pre 150) is one easy target.
    Last edited by Georg; Jun 21st, 2002 at 16:53:36.
    Georg 218 doc
    [1809] PT
    Legion
    Web: [http://www.legionhq.org]
    Irc: irc.legionhq.org
    Ts: www.legionhq.org

  15. #55
    well i really agree with u caol that there is a pb of healing in pvp.

    imo we just should apply the 50% dmg rule to the heals, so the heals would be only 50% effective in pvp; dont ask me how to do that i have no idea =)

    Maybe that would solve this pb..

    Thelsai 108 NT
    Dorseanus 20 Enf
    Melidas 15 doc

  16. #56
    Originally posted by Zerosignal



    This is the future.....
    Doctors Kill, And
    Soldiers Heal!

    Its true i tells ya :P
    And shopkeepers does both...
    So why have doc's and soldiers?

  17. #57
    Hell yeah! I wanna be a shopkeeper in Shadowlands!
    Pfft!
    Rubi-Ka's FiRST Neophyte Enforcer - Holder of Spoon - Stirring the pot - Pumpkin' Pie anyone?
    >Wo "Caol" Ha - 187 ENF | >Thzunami - 97 MA | >Wo "Dioxy" Ha - 30 TRA | In memory of The Council

    Jayde's Item Database - All you'll ever need - http://aodb.info


    "BACK AWAY" - Pogobear / Skymarshal

  18. #58

    Re: Re: Re: A slight error...

    Originally posted by Coldstrike


    The problem isn't really CH in itself, or the time it takes to cast it. The problem is that with the right equipment and buff combinations, this nano can be chain casted for pretty much as long as it takes to kill anything.

    Even with easily accessible equipment and buffs (let's say without gaily painted hood, and with a lower HE/Crunch than the best ones) this nano can be used to instantly full heal the doc for at least 10 minutes straight.

    Is this too much? I will let you be the judge of that youself..

    Thats nothing when we fight against tarasque....or other uber hard mobs. Unless yo want to screw up PVM to "balance" pvp....

    Anyway you all soldiers/enforsers saying that WE SHOULD KILL DOC!
    Who said that? Does it shows up in description? WHo said we are support class? Heh we are support class becasue we standing behind and healing you? I think you are suport class like a slaves killing mobs for us. there is no support/main combat classes each class has tools for combat and if you think that warrior should kill cleric you mistaken.

    You know that pvp and pvm is differnet soldiers having hard time fighting healing mobs why should it be easy fighting healing class for them?

    Just like we have no problem fighting not healing/ not debuffing class but prety much everyone who can debuff our ability to heal can waste us.
    Two sisters practicing medicine on Rubika and Shadowlands Pomy and Julka.

    As a doctor i would prescribe you to use some common sense and a vacation to Real Life"

    If i ever start a new character in Eve i will choose a name something like "aieerjjnnvajjnasdio11e3".

  19. #59

    :)

    did i say im still happy with my agent ? ;D

  20. #60

    Re: Re: Re: Re: A slight error...

    Originally posted by Julia Pomka



    Thats nothing when we fight against tarasque....or other uber hard mobs. Unless yo want to screw up PVM to "balance" pvp....

    Anyway you all soldiers/enforsers saying that WE SHOULD KILL DOC!
    Who said that? Does it shows up in description? WHo said we are support class? Heh we are support class becasue we standing behind and healing you? I think you are suport class like a slaves killing mobs for us. there is no support/main combat classes each class has tools for combat and if you think that warrior should kill cleric you mistaken.

    You know that pvp and pvm is differnet soldiers having hard time fighting healing mobs why should it be easy fighting healing class for them?

    Just like we have no problem fighting not healing/ not debuffing class but prety much everyone who can debuff our ability to heal can waste us.
    The only reason I'm not going into this discussion saying "NERF THIS ASAP!" is because I do know that it is totally gonna screw up PvM.

    And please, get rid of the term "support class". The closest thing to this would be the doctors back in the days where the mainstream doc went without any weaponskills at all. In modern AO, everyone fights.

    I'm also not saying that soldiers and enforcers should kill docs. I'm saying that for the sake of game balance, about half of the professions should be a threat to any given class, and at the same time, any class should also be considered a threat to about half of the other professions in the game. Right now, a buffed up doc is only threatened by traders and MPs, and only if the doc doesn't get off the init debuff first.

    And Caol is raising a valid point for debate. Damage vs. healing in PvP is unbalanced. Doctors are just used to examplify this, as they are the best healers and therefore sits at the most extreme side of the "healer <-> non healer" scale.

    So let me repeat, I do not want a nerf of CH, as this is gonna screw up PvM too bad. But it certainly needs some attention in relation to PvP.

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