Time is overdue to fix healing vs non-healing PvP.

[Coldstrike]

Just an idea I have.. Guess this will take some coding effort from FC, but this is the only way to fix this issue.

Make PvP damage "tag" a player by for instance running a hostile nano in their NCU or something. For the duration of this tag-debuff, any heal nanos cast will do 50% of what they normally do.

The duration of the tag must of course be worked out, but let's say 10-15 seconds or something.

The tag might for instance be applied by adding it as a innate nano formula in all weapons, including the "fists" weapon etc.

To take it even further, let the tag multiply the healed ammount by 0.5, and then also take away say.. half the reflect % on that character.

Never gonna happen of course.

[______________Needlz]

Oh man ..

with all dear friendship Caol, i'm gonna rip of your head and jump on it till there's nothing left cracking if you call ME part of a Fragile Backup class. Enfs are not the only ones that can break the 10k barrier =P

Pvp is THE ****, as i've said more then once. And i don't want anyone fumble with reflect or other issues as long as NPC's have 10 to 1000000 times the Hp of a same level Player.

If you get contiually owned by a class, don't fight that particular class (i remember someone saying some classes were made with the special purpose to counter another class, well cept for traders who own everyone =P Thanks for broadband debuffs ****ers). Or don't pvp at all, there is no reason to do it and no rewards either.

Comparing Enforcers and Soldiers, being the 2 pure tank classes in the game, i'll have to say that Enfs have crap value compared to an even level soldier (oh yea i HAVE a 134 Enforcer) the ****ty +80 damage you get with the best challenger is ****ing ridiculous compared to the 75% TMS. A 'challengered' Enf doesn't even do double the damage then normal, and dies just as quick as normal also. A Soldier can't do more damage, but can sustain 4 times as much damage with TMS active, thus doing more 4 times the amount of damage before croaking.

Don't get me started on MA's or Traders, they ain't tanks but they outdamage .. what is supposed to be the best 2 tank classes.

If you want ****ing support classes, give them support spells and weapons, or do it daoc style, no casting after being at least 2 seconds out of attack mode, and every damn hit interrupts.

You want a quick fix? .. disable reflect for PVP and PVP ONLY. I don't give a **** about your PVP, let me fight my mobs as they are now.

-Needlz, you can't balance this game, now way in hell

[_______________Fotik]

Bump for caol...an extension of my post

Let me copy and paste something from my other post for the pvm whiners

"when's the last time you found a mission difficult? Honestly, they're nothing more than a yawnfest with me spamming q and jumping over obstacles. No challenge whatsoever. People are too spoiled with how it is now."

-Fotik
Engineer

[Myga]

Smart comment from a engineer with a 43k+ hp slayerdroid. Now go try be on the receiving end of those hits yourself without beeing able to heal and tell me how easy it is.

[_______________Fotik]

I'm talking about teaming...not solo. Soloing is screwed as it is at high levels.

-Fotik
Engineer

[________________Sent]

Originally posted by Caol


I suggest you read Doctor - Weak Fields - Combat

You should read all of that that too, not just the parts that suit you.

Weak fields
Combat through all means BESIDES nano programs.

Strong fields
HEALING
Nano formula skills

The Doctor is the master of keeping people alive, but can also turn his knowledge of living tissue into a DEADLY WEAPON.



Y.A.W.S.

[Oljalyn]

Originally posted by fotik
I'm talking about teaming...not solo. Soloing is screwed as it is at high levels.

-Fotik
Engineer

Yes, and how do you think soloing will be like without bracers and/or RRFE/Cocoon ?

[__________Mantravadi]

What could be interesting would be if all outside buffs only worked at 50%.

I get UVC from an MA = I get 12% + to crit chance
I give MA RRF = MA gets 15% reflect.
I get Essence of Behemoth = I get +498 hp and 13 str/sta.

The buffs should of course work at 100% if you cast them on yourself. This could accomplish following: You can remove that silyl OE check crap since it will be harder to OE. You can give us implant stacking again since we will only get +40 from the doc buff. There wont be an UBER-MUST-HAVE buff for pvp. You'll be mostly dependant on your own buffs but can also gain small boosts from outside buffs.

This change woulda been so much easier to implement than all this stuff that has taken them months.

Of course I understand that there gotta be some bad things with this idea too, I just cant think of any myself :P

[_______________Fotik]

Deal with it...some professions can heal, some can't. Some can use reflect, some can't. This thread was about PVP not PVM. And I was against nerfing bracers

-Fotik
Engineer

[_____________Dooomiz]

with soldier reflect self only i'd never use it...TMS does NOT cancel the current reflect shield and we get a "better nano proggy running" when we try to tms with even the LOWEST reflect shield on...this shouldn't be.

but if there was a team version...that would be good for hunting, but ppl would still just join a soldiers team and get a reflect before pvp'ing.

and i don't know if there's a way to code
if enemy = player
then reflect = 0%
or vise versa for mobs:/

but there definatly needs to be a difference for buffs in pvp and hunting

__________________

Dooomiz - 122 soldier
Doomiz - 96 enforcer
__________________

[binaural]

yes the problem is heals, also the problem is bracers...


not too long ago, myself (175 soldier at the time) and Ipex (185 MA at the time) were in the arena, we challenged angesommbre (190 ish clan doc).. she wanted a 2 on 1, me and Ipex versus her.

Ipex Gave me UVC i gave him RRFE, And we went at it.. she started hitting him first, and she kicked his ass until he ran out of nano, the he left arena with a sliver of health.. then she started to work on me.. i Tossed up mk and was doing good.. Ipex healed up and healed me as MK ran out.

Ipex died, while of course, I am still shooting,.. I use mk AGAIN.. and after it runs out.. i zoned out of arena in utter disgust, she still had Full HP.. she had basically killed Ipex twice, and me once and was barely unfased..

Other times i have fouht docs, they just sit back and wait for TMS To go down.. toss in a complete heal or two.. im dead.

only classes i can see beating a doc, are a lucky mp who gets a shutdown off.. or a trader who can mega debuff the doc..

Doc owns soldier, MA, Enforcer, Crat... one on one..

And about bracers? I am ****ing sick of shooting people for 10-50 energy damage and critting for 250-300 with my 1k attack and 200 nova, while they crit me for more through TMS cause they have "uber" bracers and RRFE on..

and caol is right, he could take his weapon off.. go Full defence, and with RRFE I would kill myself shooting him.

*shrug*


also docs think semi logically, just look at the class names,

'DOCTOR" - HEALER!!!! heals!!
"SOLDIER" - TOUGH HAS GUN SHOOT KILL


the problem nowadays for soldiers is that pretty much anyone with an ithaka or a nova/flash combo can do the same damage as them.. and as an example..docs can use complete heals, dots, healing, HP buffs... i mean your class excells at healing etc. soldier class excells at nothing, we are only "slightly" better at ranged combat then anyone else 150 + with a gun.

[_________________Voy]

Healing nerf? Duh? Why not just introduce new "special" item -> [Vaseline Tube] USE: Martial Artist.
Sure ... nerf heals .. right after TMS nerf.

The rest of points is valid - proffession defining buffs should be self only (rrfe, essence, run speed buffs, AC buffs etc...).

V.

[______________Sredni]

Right now you only see docs, traders, enforcers, and ma's pvp'ing. Along with those 4 proffs you get the odd fixer twink at certain levels, or the soldier twink at certain levels, and the odd mp.

I'm not going to ask for nerfs to any of your proffessions because that's how you all managed to destroy mine. I am saying that something needs to be done.

[Ditka]

Originally posted by Voy
Healing nerf? Duh? Why not just introduce new "special" item -> [Vaseline Tube] USE: Martial Artist.
Sure ... nerf heals .. right after TMS nerf.
V.

They already did nerf TMS.
And Burst.
And other classes can get higher atk ratings w/ ARs than most soldiers can, while not degrading thier own abilities in any way.

Yes, nerf the damn heals in PvP.

(And personally, I have no vested intrest. I can nanoshutdown pretty damn fast.)

[_________________Voy]

If I am fighting soldier 150-160 most likely he goes down, but still I can take a quick dirtnap in 5 secs from the lucky alpha strike.
If I am fighting 190+ soldier, the odds are that I am the one who goes down.
Hmm have you ever observed how much damage a ma can do vs TMS? I just love those 30 dmg brawls
Also notice this .. a soldier uses TMS to tank damage, a ma uses his heals to tank damage ...and soldier can tank more damage then I could ever heal (fyi ma gets his last and best heals at level ~130).

What would happened if the healing was nerfed? hmm a 120s soldier could kill me with a little or no risk. Is this what you want?

I feel you pain related to rrfe issue and I have no problem if it becomes self-only, but to give the soldier's/enforcers an edge by nerfing heals is not the way.

Voyevode 193 ma.

[Julka_Pomy]

Oki let me traslate what caol said in his first post.

Doctor wins becasue they have BHE/Jobe they have RRFe and they have bracer...

He also forgot to add that LETS MAKE HP BUFFS SELF ONLY.

You know when i get RRF, Jobe/BHE, MoP, Run Buff i do it becasue every person out there in 25% zone has MY HP buff that they not suppose to have.

Make all buffs self only or like manta suggests make them 50% effective on others..

And besides it will not stop doctor from killing enforser.

Why doctors doing so great in PvP.

Because to be good in pvp in AO you need to have debuff,protection/ability to restore, damge.

We have it all. We have ability to debuff your initiates we have ability to heal and we have ability to do good damage.

Soldiers and enforsers do a bit mroe damge then doctors becasue of inbalance with wepons also have ability to restore/absorb damge but missing debuff.

That why traders are great pvp calss they are able to do mroe dmge then everyone and have debuffs. Plus ability to restore damge but this geting nerfed.

NTs also make great pvp profession only problem is most NTs are nano mage but look at Gun, Vat those neophytes solitus NTs they doing great. They have damge/debuffing ability/protection. Ofcource NTs need boost but that another story.

make doctors not to do **** load of damge from those ithacas they will not be so uber. Or make soldiers do a lot mroe damge then doctor it will balance sodlier.

Anyway i 100% agree that most buffs should be self only except for trade skill buffs. I mean HP buff,AC buffs, Run Speed Buffs, Damge Reduction Buffs, Damge increasing buffs, Damge shields they should be self only and have some weak other buff. That will give edge for each class.

Soldeir ment to take less damge and not that everyone can take less damge becasue everyone can get RRF from friends.

Doctors/Enforser should have best HP in game not that everyone can get 10k HP if they get those buffs.

Fixer should be fastes profesion not that everyone run as fast as they with their buff.

Besides peoploe who say that it used to be much better in 100% damge heeh not it wasnt doctors still were great but problem was instakills. Survive alpha and dead soldier.

[Crazin_Azin]

Originally posted by Mantravadi
I get UVC from an MA = I get 12% + to crit chance

HAHA, dont you just wish you still could.


---------------

Seriously though, i do agree(and have said) pretty much everything caol said except for the part about nerfing MA damage. Seems pretty retarted to nerf something they just fixed. How about coming up with other fixes, instead of just nerfs?

I mean, the only classes to be "fixed" so far are MA's and MP's. Look at what all they have given, and are still giving us. Give them time to fix other classes before you start screaming nerf.

[____________Anikitos]

There is little to no skill at all required to pvp...its all about the right buffs and equip.

Healing classes are a complete joke to duel these days.
Was testing alot of stuff with Mazine(adv), and came to the following conclusion.....there is no way i can win.

We both had RRF, she had better bracers then me. I had MoP too.
We start the duel, i had like 8.9k hp with mongo smash.

Let me put it this way, i was hitting her for pathetic dmg. She could just heal and heal and heal....eh..she did not even need to heal i think. At some occasions she started to heal me!

Now i know i dont suck, my Hp is good and my ac is like everyone elses..mk2. My weapons at the time where aloy/pipe combo.

I was also testing with Mirazul too...using beam and later on pipe/combo.

I remember the days when i could kick his ass....well those days are history. Again, RRF and bracers and his ability to change dmg type....damn. About the dmg type, thats a good ability for the ma and fair.

My problem is with 100% healing plus the rest of the reflects.

Anyway, pvp is a joke now..unless you are capable of healing.


B U M P -----------> CAOL
100% Agree on every lvl..

[Julka_Pomy]

Hehe pvp in AO doesnt reque skill. HAHA

I kill soldiers i get killed by soldiers.

Its not becasue i am such a crap doctor it becaseu thoe soldiers who kill me know how to fight doctor.

I killed Zerosignal why he was just standing in front of me and shooting ofocurce i can outheal all damge he does.

Finalbreaker killed me... why becasue she didnt just stand face to face to me but run around like crazy and i hardly could cath up with her and she was running ad doing damge from those river series 6 and then when i finaly run out of nano she stoped and went TMS and killed me.

Well in both cases i was equaly buffed i had RRFe and i had Run Buff i didnt even have bhe/jobe.

[______________Pie314]

uber bump to caol