Time is overdue to fix healing vs non-healing PvP.

[________________Caol]

Anyways.

My fix for the silly imbalance between healers and non healers is:

1) Make Soldier Reflect/Deflect Shield self-only.
2) Make Engineers Cacoon self-only.
3) Make Humidity Extractor line (NT) Self-only and give a massive boost to their efficiency. (After all, it's not like unlimited nano for a NT has any unbalancing issues like it has with a doc .. ie. unlimited heals).
4) Reduce amount reflected from bracers to 10% from QL200 TL6 bracers.
5) Either hinder MA's ability to change dmg type once fight has started or make one single Bracer of Reflection respond to all dmg types. (Their critbuff, heals, ability to fight at 35% aggro at capped speed is without doubt enough to secure the MA an easy win).
6) For hunting and team PvP, Make a Soldier and Engineer team-version of the Reflect/Deflect Shield & Cacoon. Make these buffs terminate when you leave team.
7) For hunting and team PvP, Make a Humidity Extractor team-version, executable by the NT. Make these buffs terminate when you leave team.

Also, I am not saying this just to vent or make my own profession more uber. I am infact a healer myself, and I -really- enjoy 68% reflect when I mongo heal for 200+ every 2 sec... I don't want uber-profs to excist and I sure as hell don't wanna be one.

Right now, doc's rule. I can't win over a doc. I think that's bizzare. Also, right now, I can kill a soldier going full deff, with rrf and 2x 18% bracers, with just the dmg he gets off my dmg shield and reflect. I think that is even more bizzare. Enf should kill doc (fragile backup class), Soldier should kill Enf (no hightech weapons - no range).

End line:

72% reflect is a joke and a gigantic slap in the face of all soldiers as their own "unique" tool gets used against em by fragile doctors and other classes.

[________________Sent]

I love being called a "fragile backup class".

[Razers]

B-U-M-P ....

[Beartwo]

I wanted to bring out Beartwo and PvP with him after I hit lvl 150.... you will not see me close to any 25% zones unless its a 2HO or tara battle.
Bracers has killed us as a profession compared to the healers.

Soldier= energy dmg, low atk rating, few and low crits....

I am getting very tired of Funcoms way of handling the "balance issue" in this game.
An equal lvl doc should not able to outheal my damage when I go at him full blast, neither should any other profession. The same goes for Enforcer.

[SBQaz]

Just bumping.. tired of seing ppl run around with a 1h:10m TMS compared to my 1m:20s TMS.

Altho these changes wont help non-healing classes much, if their alpha fails. At least with the proposed changes, there will be a chance of a succesfull alpha

[____________Scarlito]

SERIOUS BUMPAGE to each one of Caol's points.
Nothing to say... good post, valid points.

[_______________Fryli]

Originally posted by Caol

Also, I am not saying this just to vent or make my own profession more uber. I am infact a healer myself, and I -really- enjoy 68% reflect when I mongo heal for 200+ every 2 sec... I don't want uber-profs to excist and I sure as hell don't wanna be one.

Still u wanna nerf MA's because the can beat u
Well i also see soldiers that owns MA's easy in 1 vs 1...

Right now, doc's rule. I can't win over a doc. I think that's bizzare. Also, right now, I can kill a soldier going full deff, with rrf and 2x 18% bracers, with just the dmg he gets off my dmg shield and reflect. I think that is even more bizzare. Enf should kill doc (fragile backup class), Soldier should kill Enf (no hightech weapons - no range).

Quote Caol: "I don't want uber-profs to excist and I sure as hell don't wanna be one"

Hmm, still u want Soldiers to be able to kill everyone? and only treat to Enf being Soldier?

And when did doc's become a "fragile backup class"?, as i know it we are combatclasses as every other profession.
There is only one "uber" profession in this game atm, and that is not the doctor profession... But u prolly dont dare naming them as i see u tag along with one all the time...

72% reflect is a joke and a gigantic slap in the face of all soldiers as their own "unique" tool gets used against em by fragile doctors and other classes.

I can agree upon the fact that "reflect/absorbe" with current bracers and shields is to powerfull and make "shield" and "healerprofessions" to powerfull.

[Coldstrike]

The core of the problem is 100% effectiveness on heals compared to 14% or 17% effectiveness on damage. (damage * 0.5 * 0.28)

As much as I hate self only and class specific item, I must admit that I do see a reason to do something about reflects at the state this game is in right now. For PvP at least.

But I do also see the PvM problems this would cause for all that has gotten used to having RRF and bracers. Your idea of a team RRF that cancels once you leave the team would take care of this tho.

Making bracers unique so that only one of each type can be worn at one time might also be an option to look into.

But all this does not help the fact that heals are 100% while damage is 50% at best, maybe closer to 25% in practical situations.

[Myga]

You cant just nerf reflect its a must PvM. Try do 50% individual missions at lvl 200, you get them full of real mean bullies and all that other crap. Now how much does a real mean bully hit for without reflect? Something like 500-800, 1500 crits against 4k ac. Now take into consideration that they have 150k hp or so and basically soloing missions are history.

Increase 50% dmg in PvP and/or reduce efficiency of reflect shields against attacks from other players. Simple to implement solution that dont ruin PvM even more than it is today.

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by Fryli

Still u wanna nerf MA's because the can beat u
Well i also see soldiers that owns MA's easy in 1 vs 1...

Mirazul kicked my ass when he had bracers and 30% reflect. I had the same. I just barely kicked his ass when he went at it without reflect of any kind. Could have gone otherway around easy. This makes me feel it's balanced. Total **** ain't.

If a Soldier beats a MA, the MA ain't doing his thing right or playing his char at peak performance with good tactics.

Originally posted by Fryli
Hmm, still u want Soldiers to be able to kill everyone? and only treat to Enf being Soldier?

I didn't say that, did I? I said that in my view, a soldier should be superior to a Enf. Now it is totaly the other way. Enf is not only superior to Soldier... they can **** soldiers with no weapon on. Makes sense?

I enjoy it, believe me. But it IS fubar.

Originally posted by Fryli
And when did doc's become a "fragile backup class"?, as i know it we are combatclasses as every other profession.
There is only one "uber" profession in this game atm, and that is not the doctor profession... But u prolly dont dare naming them as i see u tag along with one all the time...

I suggest you read Doctor - Weak Fields - Combat

I believe you think of Enigmamonger, beeing a trader. Traders are far from the most uber class in the game. I've killed every trader that got on me, even when we both had bracers and rrf shield. VS I doc, I don't stand a chance.

Originally posted by Fryli
I can agree upon the fact that "reflect/absorbe" with current bracers and shields is to powerfull and make "shield" and "healerprofessions" to powerfull.

Good, then we agree. Can I please have back my pink spandex now?

[ThePartisan]

Originally posted by Coldstrike
But all this does not help the fact that heals are 100% while damage is 50% at best, maybe closer to 25% in practical situations. [/B]

That's the core of the problem. Healing is twice as powerful in pvp as in pvm.

[________________Caol]

Originally posted by MSag
You cant just nerf reflect its a must PvM. Try do 50% individual missions at lvl 200, you get them full of real mean bullies and all that other crap. Now how much does a real mean bully hit for without reflect? Something like 500-800, 1500 crits against 4k ac. Now take into consideration that they have 150k hp or so and basically soloing missions are history.

Increase 50% dmg in PvP and/or reduce efficiency of reflect shields against attacks from other players. Simple to implement solution that dont ruin PvM even more than it is today.

That's another problem right there. Reflect should be reduced, and the mobs HP in PvM should be SEVERLY reduced. Indeed QL200 missions at lvl200 = no fun at aaall.

[Coldstrike]

Originally posted by MSag
Increase 50% dmg in PvP and/or reduce efficiency of reflect shields against attacks from other players. Simple to implement solution that dont ruin PvM even more than it is today.

You know what profession is gonna be hit hardest if they nerf reflects in general against damage done by other players?

[_______________Fryli]

Originally posted by Caol


Mirazul kicked my ass when he had bracers and 30% reflect. I had the same. I just barely kicked his ass when he went at it without reflect of any kind. Could have gone otherway around easy. This makes me feel it's balanced. Total **** ain't

If a Soldier beats a MA, the MA ain't doing his thing right or playing his char at peak performance with good tactics.

Or...maybe the soldier is simply better then MA...
I saw Raz completely OWN Mirazul a cpl days ago at the arena.

I didn't say that, did I? I said that in my view, a soldier should be superior to a Enf. Now it is totaly the other way. Enf is not only superior to Soldier... they can **** soldiers with no weapon on. Makes sense?

Quote Caol: "I don't want uber-profs to excist and I sure as hell don't wanna be one."

Quote Caol: "Enf should kill doc (fragile backup class), Soldier should kill Enf (no hightech weapons - no range)."

Quote Caol: "I am not saying this just to vent or make my own profession more uber"

Hmm, i'm not sure where u are going with this, but it sure aint towards profession balance...

I suggest you read Doctor - Weak Fields - Combat

And?
Cant read anywhere that we should drop dead to all other professions...
Infact i can read: "The Doctor is the master of keeping people alive, but can also turn his knowledge of living tissue into a deadly weapon."
And: "When it comes to dealing out the damage, we aren't any slackers either"

As for wpn... yes we cant dish out the same amount of dmg as those professions that have high wpn skills.

I believe you think of Enigmamonger, beeing a trader. Traders are far from the most uber class in the game. I've killed every trader that got on me, even when we both had bracers and rrf shield. VS I doc, I don't stand a chance.

Ohh...but to me they are darn uber along with MP's after 14,2, but u kill them with ease...hmm....sounds like imbalance to me...
Yes i can outheal them for some time in a 1 vs 1 but i will be nowhere close to killing one, he/crunc is a lifesaver against them tho if i have it in my ncu, so i can cast my shopbought heal untill i mangage to zone away from their roots.

Inevitable i can beat them also after 14,2, if they would stand there and let me stack initdebuff, 2 dot's and epsilon purge on them before they fight back...have yet to meet one tho, that would let me....

Good, then we agree. Can I please have back my pink spandex now?

Sure and i bought u those diapers u asked for...

[Beartwo]

Originally posted by Fryli

And when did doc's become a "fragile backup class"?, as i know it we are combatclasses as every other profession.
There is only one "uber" profession in this game atm, and that is not the doctor profession... But u prolly dont dare naming them as i see u tag along with one all the time...

Uhm.... I never saw any statements that said there were only combat classes in this game....
There are combat classes and support classes in the original description.

FC, in their unfathomable wisdom has of course messed it up so that two of the professions meant as support classes have become the most efficient combat classes, and two of the combat professions have become support....


Docs rule Fryli...... with your heals and with bracers/rrf its impossible to hurt you, yet you still wield weapons and almost equal others professions dmg output.

Traders rock too, maybe just as much...they are still a support class by definition though.

FC has made it so its impossible to advance yourself without doing missions, to get exp you must kill, and to be effective here you must have a decent weapon potential.

This is where it all got messed up. Tradeskills arent a viable way to lvl. Had tradeskills worked properly we wouldnt have this problem. If you wanted to kill, you would choose a combat class profession, if you wanted to assist in the fighting you would choose a healer or a buffer type.....

When I first started playing I actually believed that fighting in AO was done by professions meant for fighting, and not those meant for tradeskills....

How silly of me....


Had it been up to me traders and docs would single equip low calibre pistols only.... :P

[____________Slipstar]

i take it you must be taking abotu lvl 200 doc to have unlimited heals cause after one debuff from a trader my lvl my healing goes to the lvl of a poor soldier and he has MK and a high attack raiting.
you all with your green attack skills and me with my very dark blue.you with your attack of over 1k .
mine at 155 is 780 most of you high lvls have evades much higher than that .
also i see a few low lvl docs running round pvping but i see many more ENF , traders and SOls
you want to fix a so called imbalance .you would kill low lvl healers .your unhappy about how HIGH lvl docs are a hard fight go fight a lvl 74 doc or a lvl 80 doc with an Sol or an Enf and see yes they can heal but one debuff or stun and very few will survive
i do feel sorry for Sols they should be able to do more dmg or just make there MK last longer with less nano shut down time .but i see manys Sols just wiping the floor with some docs
ie me getting hit by razers for more than i have HP at the time now how is that not uber
MAs have it good for a time but im sure that will change
Engies again i feel sorry for them but at high lvls they can be very good if done right
the changes you would like made would really hurt lower lvls.
take a sec and think about the lower lvl who are not lvl 150 and above
anyway leave us alone
PMS is a *****

[Myga]

Originally posted by Coldstrike


You know what profession is gonna be hit hardest if they nerf reflects in general against damage done by other players?

I cant see any single profession as getting hit harder than the others by this.

Say for example 50% reduction of reflect in PvP:

Bracers only: 42% PvM 21% PvP
Bracers + RRFE: 72% PvM 36% PvP
Bracers + TMS: 100% PvM 59% PvP

Kinda puts soldier back on the reflect throne where they belong. Other than that everyone is more or less effected just as much.

[_______________Fryli]

Yes, Beartwo... i would love that Soldiers got some love, i dont disagree upon that, they have lost some of the strengths of the profession. A good fix imo is to make MK reflect more dmg again
And i dont disagree upon the fact that bracers make me as a healer even stronger, but so is a soldier with bracers, and Enfo's with bracers.

But u have to be pretty xxxxxx if u actually think that Traders and engis should do tradeskills for 200 lvl's, or doc being healer only for 200 lvl....Adventurer explore RK for 200 lvl's...MP's doing yoga....or whatever for 200 lvl's....and i have yet to see an office for my Crat friends to woork in for 200 lvl's...

And where do u ur "unfathomable wisdom" come from? RL?

[______________Azertyxx]

REMOVE ALL OUTSIDE BUFF WHEN YOU ENTER IN PVP ZONE FOR ALL OTHER CLASS THAN ENF AND SOLD

DIMINISH RUNSPEED WHEN U BEGIN TO LOOSE HEALTH

DO SOLDIER THE INVINCIBLE CLASS (EXTEND THEIR SHIELD TO 10 MN ) AND A CRIT BUFF +50

GIVE 20 K HP TO ENF + REFLECT BUFF 80%

NERF THE HEAL

NERF THE NUKE

NERF THE DEBUFF

REMOVE 100% DMG IN PVP ZONE FOR ONLY SOLDIERS AND ENF



yes i want be the best with my profession , ouin ouin , in real life RAMBO can t die and CONAN too !!!

Yes we will see only soldier and enforcer on rubika, but they will be happy

Yes , it will be fun , nobody could kill me , but maybe nobody want duel me.

Hey , where are you all the others professions ? I m alone now ? Hey , i want play with you !!!




Seriously , i can t beleive you can t judge another profession and i think the only profession which must be ameliorate in pvp is the ENGINNER.

Soldier need only some better weapon , soldier only , and it will be good.

For bracers ,why not

But i don t think you can say nerf this profession because i can t beat it in duel.

And duel is boring , Q , B , K , heal , b ,heal.... RUNNNNN !!! i begin to loose , my title , oh my god !!

[Ditka]

The problem coems down to the FACT that healing classes are almost unbeatable when possessing high level reflect.

Coldstrike already summed it up:
Healing is at 100%
Damage is at 25%

How can non-healing classes expect to keep up.

Make the soldier and engi reflects self only (and please do put in team versions) AND make healing 50%.

Doing just one or the other leaves us with healing still being 2x as good as damage (instead of 4x).

Its not fair to combat classes (which I am not one of) to be absolutely unable to ever kill major healing classes. Especially given that the most glaring reason they are unkillable is something the main combat class casts!