Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345
Results 81 to 89 of 89

Thread: Why is Omni-Tek the bad people?

  1. #81
    Your Law is the whole problem...Your Law. Clan does not care for the way you do things. As a result we choose a different approach. Since Philip Ross does not care to leave us be even in a political arena how can you not understand that we have a right to defend ourselves? Admittedly we have made our own errors and others have done things atrocious. OT is not a unstained government and with their approach tend to magnify the result.
    [Team] Darich: this sucks. only 2 adds so far lol

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by Edussair
    Your Law is the whole problem...Your Law. Clan does not care for the way you do things. As a result we choose a different approach.
    Let there be chaos then. The stubborn clans not making any common laws of their own just because Omni-Tek has ones? Idiocy! I let you dwell in chaos for all i care but leave Omni-Tek out of it. We still believe in organisation and stability.
    Lady Raydente Orlando
    Doctor 209 (15) Equip
    Proud Executive of HUGE, Inc

    Also known as:
    Priestess Elving Orlando | Master Raymer Orlando | Shadoray |

    Semi-Retired

  3. #83
    Originally Posted by Edussair
    Your Law (...)
    "Your Law". "Your Law". Once again, I realise my mistake.

    There is no other Law than Omni-Tek's Law.

    How foolish I was! I was thinking that other laws could exist, that suited the Clans better. But no. Now I realise this.

    There is no other Law than Omni-Tek's Law.

    There is no hope of anyone thinking about other laws, because other laws do not exist.

    THERE IS NO OTHER LAW THAN OMNI-TEK'S LAW.

    [/sarcasm]

    I was first thinking about comparing you to a child, but that would be unjust for the children. They apparently have much more imagination than you.

    The fact that Omni-Tek'laws are the best laws should not stop your from making your OWN laws.

    Originally Posted by Raydente
    The stubborn clans not making any common laws of their own just because Omni-Tek has ones? Idiocy!
    Thanks Raydente.

    And by the way, if you do not want Omni-Tek's laws, the stop crying on the nullification of the Tir Accord. Because the Tir Accord was part of the laws of the big bad wolf. And you do not care about the laws of the big bad wolf.

    Originally Posted by Edussair
    (...)we choose a different approach. Since Philip Ross does not care to leave us be even in a political arena (...)
    Several remarks and questions:

    What approach did you choose? Actually no, that the wrong queston. Did you choose an approach at all?

    How can you complain? You do not play the game with the same rules as everyone else and then you complain when everyone else remark that you do not play with the same rules as them. Do you expect everyone to be as blind and forgiving as you would like them to be?

    Who exactly is "us"? You just tried to explain in the previous post that there was no "us" in "Clans". Just a hoards of clanners who are sometimes part of some "organisation" or "guild". And they can enter and depart freely from any of these guilds, being de facto not held by political bound.

    What do you hope? That every single clanner should be present in the "political arena"? In this case, Omni-Tek will do the same. Your political arena exists.

    It is called "Rubi-Ka".

    Originally Posted by Edussair
    their approach tend to magnify the result
    Would you care to explain how this is the case? And also why it appears to "magnify the result" only on the "bad things"? Or are you just repeating some misshapen and groundless anti-Omni-Tek slogan?

    BaronBlanc.
    Concealment is bugged in PvM: hit sneak two times after you zone. Only then you will be able to sneak properly.

  4. #84
    There is no other Law than Omni-Tek's Law.
    This claim is, of course, patently false. Surely were we being just a tad bit sarcastic here? I should hope so. Clearly Omni-Tek laws are not the only that govern the people that live on this planet? I think they are not. I'm quite certain that we in the Clans are governed by the Clan government. Apparently the form in which the Clan government takes is not to your liking. Or to your choosing for that matter. Pity that, but as a requirement of the relegation of territory to the Clans, the Council of Truth was given the authority to govern these areas as it saw fit. Not as Omni-Tek sees fit. Your laws mean nothing to us.

    Now, it is true that those Clanners that wish to not choose to be governed by the Council are in effect governed by OT as a matter of the agreement. But there aren't any of those, are there? Even our reviled Sentinels sit upon the Council, do they not? By that standard, the Sentinels too are above the reach of the laws of Omni-Tek, and therefore not subject to your administrative niceties. Since the Clans do not suppress free speech, even the more militant soundings from the Sentinels are not subject to any kind of admonishment from the Council. Certainly there would be no "reigning in of our more violent factions" as you like to put it. As long as they are represented on the Council, and as long as there is still a Council, to them, There is no law other than Clan law. In whatever form it might happen to be in. Clearly we do not abide by OT's orders regarding how the Council does things. Nor will we ever. Unless of course, you decide to force it upon us by military force. Then the farce shall be complete and naked to all that have eyes that can see.

    I was first thinking about comparing you to a child, but that would be unjust for the children. They apparently have much more imagination than you.

    The fact that Omni-Tek'laws are the best laws should not stop your from making your OWN laws.
    How dramatic, and completely inane. Comparing my colleague to a child when he clearly speaks with compassion, intelligence and eloquence is tantamount to a personal attack. Actually, it's not tantamount, it IS a personal attack. The last refuge of the scoundrel. We really wish you would try to do better and act and speak with more decorum. As for OT's laws being the best laws, perhaps that might be true of OT employees, but I fail to see how this would apply to Clanners. It does not. Were they the best laws, surely we would have adopted them as well, but since we do not, they are not. That's pretty basic, I should think.

    And by the way, if you do not want Omni-Tek's laws, the stop crying on the nullification of the Tir Accord. Because the Tir Accord was part of the laws of the big bad wolf. And you do not care about the laws of the big bad wolf.
    We do not want Omni-Tek laws, and we do not have them as a matter of course. We will not have them in the future either. We are not required to fall under them, either. The Clans were given the Council of Truth with which to dispense government affairs within the territories given to it to govern over. Involuntary admission is not a prerequisite of being involved with the Council as a Clanner, and by the rules set forth by the ICC, any choosing not to recognize the Council as it's legal authority would be subject to the rules of Omni-Tek. This applies to the Neutral population as well. But nowhere does it state in anything I have read that the Clans are subject to Omni-Tek laws. That would only occur in the minds of the wishful thinkers. Or the truly mad and power hungry. Since the Tir Accord was nullified unilaterally by the Corporation, that merely set aside a cease fire, did it not? It certainly did not nullify the structure put in place by the ICC for Clan to have it's own governing body. You merely delayed it with your heavy handed, draconian and transparent tactics. But since they are back again, I'm quite certain the ICC recognizes the Clan government as being the Council of Truth. So certainly your claims and arguments are rather shabby.

    What approach did you choose? Actually no, that the wrong queston. Did you choose an approach at all?

    How can you complain? You do not play the game with the same rules as everyone else and then you complain when everyone else remark that you do not play with the same rules as them. Do you expect everyone to be as blind and forgiving as you would like them to be?

    Who exactly is "us"? You just tried to explain in the previous post that there was no "us" in "Clans". Just a hoards of clanners who are sometimes part of some "organisation" or "guild". And they can enter and depart freely from any of these guilds, being de facto not held by political bound.

    What do you hope? That every single clanner should be present in the "political arena"? In this case, Omni-Tek will do the same. Your political arena exists.

    It is called "Rubi-Ka".
    I really hate to repeat myself, so I shall not. The previous statement made by myself covers this nicely. However, we as Clan are not required to play by your rules. That's what a government does. It makes it's own rules. It creates it's own laws. It serves as the authority for those under it's blanket. We are not held by political bounds, and it must be awfully confusing to those of you in the corporation that sign those dreadful contracts with them. I am led to understand that you also may choose to leave the corporation should you choose to do so. Rightly so if this is the case. However, what is true on your end is true on ours as well. Leave the corporation but stay in territory mandated for the corporation to govern (such as it does) and you will find yourself subject to their laws, political scrutiny and economic realities. Find yourself in Clan territory, and you will find you are policed by Clan authorities. They certainly do not resemble yours, but they do exist. Having them is enough. Meeting your standards is not a requirement they must meet. And please do remember that our political arena falls to the northern territories of Rubi-Ka. Just as yours falls to the south of it. In each of those areas, different laws apply.

    In a nutshell, our law is law where we govern. Yours is yours where you govern. Do not be under the misaprehension that Omni-Tek governs the whole of Rubi-Ka, for it does not.
    -----------------------------------
    The few, the proud...the Traders.
    -----------------------------------

    Maartens - 220 Mogul and former gadfly of Rimor. Now I'm just a major n00b.

    In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge!

  5. #85
    You really need to go outdoors and take a look around yourself one of these days.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Crime
    Clearly Omni-Tek laws are not the only that govern the people that live on this planet? I think they are not. I'm quite certain that we in the Clans are governed by the Clan government. Apparently the form in which the Clan government takes is not to your liking. Or to your choosing for that matter. Pity that, but as a requirement of the relegation of territory to the Clans, the Council of Truth was given the authority to govern these areas as it saw fit. Not as Omni-Tek sees fit. Your laws mean nothing to us.
    Of course, that governing body no longer exists. The new Council of Truth has even said they're not a governing organization.

    Quote Originally Posted by Edussair
    I misunderstood what CoT until I was corrected by a CoT council member. For that I apologize. How I understood it was that CoT was more then just an advisory position (hence viewing my signature might allow you to understand how I came up with that view).
    See, you're contradicting the Council of Truth itself. Why do you expect more than lies from Omni-tek if that's the only coin you can deal in?


    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Crime
    Now, it is true that those Clanners that wish to not choose to be governed by the Council are in effect governed by OT as a matter of the agreement. But there aren't any of those, are there?
    This sounds like you're saying all the clans that have launched unprovoked attacks against peaceful organizations were sanctioned by the Council. I'm surprised to see you of all people announcing that the Council sanctions terrorist acts.

    We do not want Omni-Tek laws, and we do not have them as a matter of course. We will not have them in the future either. We are not required to fall under them, either. The Clans were given the Council of Truth with which to dispense government affairs within the territories given to it to govern over. Involuntary admission is not a prerequisite of being involved with the Council as a Clanner, and by the rules set forth by the ICC, any choosing not to recognize the Council as it's legal authority would be subject to the rules of Omni-Tek. This applies to the Neutral population as well. But nowhere does it state in anything I have read that the Clans are subject to Omni-Tek laws.
    Seeing how there is no other governing body on Rubi-ka, you hardly have a choice...unless the CoT finally plans to get serious.

    I really hate to repeat myself, so I shall not. The previous statement made by myself covers this nicely. However, we as Clan are not required to play by your rules. That's what a government does. It makes it's own rules. It creates it's own laws. It serves as the authority for those under it's blanket.
    All that is true. So why don't you clanners make a government or something, then? As much as you like to argue, you're afraid of doing the one thing that would give your arguments any meaning.

    In a nutshell, our law is law where we govern.
    And that would be nowhere, by the Council's own admission.

    If you don't like it, why don't you do something about it instead of whining incessantly?

  6. #86
    Honestly, I go outside every day. I smell the roses. I take pot shots at quake lizards for amusement and sport all the time. It alleviates the boredom of sitting in my lab and reading the drivel that comes out of here. And pray tell, what does this have to do with the current topic? Do I come bother you when you go play Romance the Leet?

    I hate to tell you this, but the Council of Truth exists. As previously mentioned, we don't care about what anyone but other Clanners say about it. If you are Omni or Neutral, all I can tell you is: tough titty. In the immortal words of Thomas Jefferson, "that neither breaks my leg nor picks my pocket". The ICC recognizes the entity known as the Council of Truth as the governing Clan body. I don't recall there being any clause in the agreement that says "and the CoT shall remain the de facto decision making body of the Clan territories of Rubi-Ka as long as the Omni's and Neutrals agree to how it's run, who runs it, and asks for permission to take a whizz". Nope, didn't see one of those in there.

    Originally Posted by Joshua Crime
    Now, it is true that those Clanners that wish to not choose to be governed by the Council are in effect governed by OT as a matter of the agreement. But there aren't any of those, are there?


    This sounds like you're saying all the clans that have launched unprovoked attacks against peaceful organizations were sanctioned by the Council. I'm surprised to see you of all people announcing that the Council sanctions terrorist acts.
    I am not quite certain where in my quote I say anything remotely close to saying that all the unprovoked attacks done by Clanners (please tell me which ones there were as well) are sanctioned by the Council. Please, enlighten me as to how you derive this conclusion from what I said. My statement says exactly what is written. There are Clanners that, for whatever reason, will not choose to affiliate themselves with the CoT, and as such, they are subject to OT laws as the original agreements were written. In no way, shape or form do I even come close to saying that the Council of Truth sanctions terrorist acts.

    Seeing how there is no other governing body on Rubi-ka, you hardly have a choice...unless the CoT finally plans to get serious.
    As mentioned earlier, the Clan does not care if the Neutrals or Omni agrees to how the Council is run, who sits upon it or what it decided it's laws will or will not be. We, frankly, don't give a **** about what you think or say about it. If the CoT resigns itself to being nothing more than an advisory body to those that choose to call themselves Clan, that's our business. We do not give a squiggly **** if you don't think we are being serious or not.

    And that would be nowhere, by the Council's own admission.

    If you don't like it, why don't you do something about it instead of whining incessantly?
    If you don't like it, why don't you just mind your own business and go meddle in the affairs of OT and how they decide to govern themselves? It's quite clear to me and all Clanners alike that we aren't going to be swayed by anything anyone else has to say about it. Keep your affairs to yourselves and your opinions to yourselves as well.
    -----------------------------------
    The few, the proud...the Traders.
    -----------------------------------

    Maartens - 220 Mogul and former gadfly of Rimor. Now I'm just a major n00b.

    In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge!

  7. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Crime
    I hate to tell you this, but the Council of Truth exists.
    Whether they exist or not is irrelevant. The council themselves have declared they are not a governing body. Who are you to argue otherwise?

    The ICC recognizes the entity known as the Council of Truth as the governing Clan body.
    The ICC recognized the original Council of Truth to be the governing body of the clans. Your argument contradicts the words of council members in two places:
    • The current council is not the same organization as the old council.
    • The current council is not a clan government. Why can't you accept this?


    I am not quite certain where in my quote I say anything remotely close to saying that all the unprovoked attacks done by Clanners (please tell me which ones there were as well) are sanctioned by the Council. Please, enlighten me as to how you derive this conclusion from what I said. My statement says exactly what is written. There are Clanners that, for whatever reason, will not choose to affiliate themselves with the CoT, and as such, they are subject to OT laws as the original agreements were written.
    Let me refresh your memory. Let's see if you can read italics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Crime
    Now, it is true that those Clanners that wish to not choose to be governed by the Council are in effect governed by OT as a matter of the agreement. But there aren't any of those, are there?
    If there are no clans choose not to be governed by the Council, logically all clans must be governed by the council. This is the first flaw in your logic, since the council has declared it is not a governing body, and therefore governs no clans whatsoever.

    But let's ignore that for the moment that the council itself has contradicted your statement in the past. If you are right and the council is wrong, then all clans are governed by the council. Any hostile actions by member clans are either tolerated by the council or not. If the government over these clans refuses to rein them in, then they are obviously their actions meet with the approval of the clan government.

    So there are three possibilities here, depending on which of your statements are true:
    1. The CoT governs all clans (even though they deny it). The Council is a clan government that approves of terrorist activities carried out by its citizens.
    2. The CoT is not a governing body (The truth according to the CoT). In this case, the clans have no governing body, and all clans fall under Omni-tek jurisdiction, until such time as they establish a government and territories of their own.
    3. In this third case, the council is the clan government, but some clans refuse to be governed by the council. By all accounts (including your own) these clans would be under Omni-tek jurisdiction. The CoT and the clans it governs would have no business interfering in dealings between OT and the clans in question.


    As mentioned earlier, the Clan does not care if the Neutrals or Omni agrees to how the Council is run, who sits upon it or what it decided it's laws will or will not be. We, frankly, don't give a **** about what you think or say about it. If the CoT resigns itself to being nothing more than an advisory body to those that choose to call themselves Clan, that's our business. We do not give a squiggly **** if you don't think we are being serious or not.
    It's not a question of what we think. The Council can't be a legitimate government if they do not govern, nor can the clans have "Clan Law" if they make no laws. Either you have government or you don't. Either you have laws or you don't. Trying to argue both ways is childish. Actually believing both ways is schizophrenic. Have you considered seeking professional medical attention?

  8. #88

    This will be my last statement on the topic...

    ...as the Neutrals are again acting like anything but Neutrals. When they decide to place themselves amongst the non-aligned citizens of Rubi-Ka, I shall endeavor to hold further debate with them. Until such time, I shall withdraw my conversation from their debates, as they have begun the inexorable slide from neutral to sided. If you find yourself in disagreement with this, please spend the extra ten seconds it takes to define what neutral means. Then place those whose voices are planting seeds on one side of the conflict, find out what those voices are saying, and finally see whether or not you can continue to refer to them as "neutral". I do not believe that you can any longer. Choose a side, Neutrals, and do it fast. Your immunity draws less and less tenable due to your leadership's actions and words.

    To complete the topic...

    Whether they exist or not is irrelevant. The council themselves have declared they are not a governing body. Who are you to argue otherwise?
    I am. I would be a Clan person that follows the precepts of the Council of Truth. Who are you to say anything, Neut? You are nothing and speak nothing of consequence. Does that answer your question? If so, good. If not, I could care less.

    The ICC recognized the original Council of Truth to be the governing body of the clans. Your argument contradicts the words of council members in two places:
    • The current council is not the same organization as the old council.
    • The current council is not a clan government. Why can't you accept this?
    I do not care what you think of the current body of the Council of Truth as opposed to it's predecesor or it's goals and activities. You are a Neutral citizen of Rubi-Ka. You, in other words, do not have an interest in the political differences between Clan and Omni-Tek. Or, do I have it wrong? Are you now declaring political allegience? State your claim, or shut up.

    As for the rest of the argument, I shall not hold competent political discussions with those that have no basis for argument, such as Neutral citizens of Rubi-Ka. Or shall I say, the Omni-Tek kneeling pathetic lickspittles of the Neutral persuasion that not only backs whatever the Omni-Tek leadership says, but could not possibly see the reverse of any argument that Clan spokesmen like myself could bring up. No, your allegience is now quite nakedly declared for all to see. Care to explain yourself further? Probably not, actually. You would find yourself too busy sucking up to the corporate honchos while giving amazing blowjobs. Where do you find the time?
    Last edited by Joshua Crime; Oct 2nd, 2004 at 07:38:44.
    -----------------------------------
    The few, the proud...the Traders.
    -----------------------------------

    Maartens - 220 Mogul and former gadfly of Rimor. Now I'm just a major n00b.

    In defeat, malice. In victory, revenge!

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Joshua Crime
    ...as the Neutrals are again acting like anything but Neutrals. When they decide to place themselves amongst the non-aligned citizens of Rubi-Ka, I shall endeavor to hold further debate with them. Until such time, I shall withdraw my conversation from their debates, as they have begun the inexorable slide from neutral to sided.
    Neutral means not taking sides in the conflict. It doesn't mean we allow either side to commit atrocities against us.

    In the end it's not about clan or Omni, it's about actions and their consequences. Ultimately each one of us is reponsible for his own actions, including the act of providing support to others.

    If you don't want to be held responsible for supporting terrorists, don't support them, regardless of which side of the conflict they claim to serve. It can't be any simpler.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 12345

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •