Clans Step Up Attacks On Omni-1

[Naefen]

That doesnt make any sense at all Stormwynd. Your "rumors" are wild and have no roots in reality what so ever.
Yet another foolish and cruel attempt at darkening Omni Tek`s reputation. The fact that you, yourself, call it rumors shows how desperate you are at throwing filth our way. You cant blame Omni Tek for everything you know. Its not Omni Tek`s fault you have a hole in your shoe. Its not Omni Tek`s fault your wife cheated on you. And its certainly not Omni Tek`s fault an "ICC- Affiliated" organisation attacked clan towers.

[Stormwynd]

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Which ICC organization? If it was a neutral organization, keep in mind that all neutrals are not associated with the ICC. In fact, I believe the only actual ICC affiliated force on Rubi-Ka is their Peace Keeping force.
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They might not be fully associated with ICC, but they live under ICC rule - a rule that apparently allows them to accept money and goods from Omni-Tek for the sole purpose of destroying Clan property. Which is contradictory to their "make love, not war" policies.

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However, keep in mind that Secretary General Isidra Derousse allowed private mining in designated sites, but never set any system to determine the appropiate division of these mining sites. Attacks on the mining sites should be expected, until governmental bodies impose order.
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So what you are doing now, is justifying the very warfare you are on the other hand condemning. On one hand you say we should keep our paws off of your towns, but on the other hand you say it's ok for people to attack Clan owned tower sites? Come on now...just another fine example of Omni-Tek selfishness. Selfishness that will consume you people sooner or later, with or without the Clans' help.

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Can you substantiate these rumors, or are they unfounded propaganda?
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Substantiate? The organisations which do this know very well that I'm not spewing propaganda, but one can only expect them to be too yellow-bellied to admit it. But to lend some credibility to my claims, I shall investigate in the matter and return with proof of this atrocity.

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So, attacks on civilian targets are acceptable based on rumors alone.
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Civilian targets..since when are armed guards civilian targets? And all those omni 'civilians' that come attack us for that aren't exactly carrying weaponry one would expect a civilian with. What are you thinking, that we're just gonna let them shoot us just because they're civilians? "Heeeeey there's an innocent civilian carrying a huge orange-bladed scythe. Let's let him walk up to us and kill us!"

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Who knows, the ICC you decry as corrupt might even allow you home rule, though I’m sure you’d reject even that offer from a corrupt galactic government.
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Seeing that corrupt galactic government would never even consider allowing us home rule, since their pockets are full of omni credits, this point is moot.

Sir Naefen - As I said, I shall investigate in the matter, and will prove my "wild and unrooted" rumours to be perfectly true.

(OOC: Was trying to find a way to describe those omni orgs that make neutral alt orgs in order to capture clan bases without leaving their own bases open & unprotected..a practice I can only feel disgusted about..)

[Naefen]

((OOC: Allthough I have honestly never heard of anyone doing that myself I agree.... that would be a disgusting practise.))

[Marisha]

Originally posted by Stormwynd
They might not be fully associated with ICC, but they live under ICC rule

I still don’t see any evidence of an association with the ICC. As for living under ICC rule, perhaps they do. However, ultimately, so does every inhabitant of Rubi-Ka, whether they choose to acknowledge the fact or not.

Originally posted by Stormwynd
So what you are doing now, is justifying the very warfare you are on the other hand condemning. On one hand you say we should keep our paws off of your towns, but on the other hand you say it's ok for people to attack Clan owned tower sites?

No, I am explaining that in the absence of a clan governmental body and the clans disinterest in a diplomatic solution to the current economic struggle, the conflict will continue. As for attacks on the mining sites, these are military targets, due to the nanotechological and economic rewards the controllers receive. Cities are civilian targets. So long as individuals who are not involved in the military conflict on Rubi-Ka continue to live in these cities and towns, it is only right that these cities be excluded as valid military targets.

Mark my words here. I’m not talking about law, or pragmatism. This is a moral issue of right verses wrong.

Originally posted by Stormwynd
But to lend some credibility to my claims, I shall investigate in the matter and return with proof of this atrocity.

I look forward to seeing the results of your investigation.

Originally posted by Stormwynd
Civilian targets..since when are armed guards civilian targets? And all those omni 'civilians' that come attack us for that aren't exactly carrying weaponry one would expect a civilian with.

Rubi-Ka is a naturally dangerous place. Beyond the threat from the natural wildlife, such as the hungry Baratons who descended on Newland a few years ago, we have to contend with the attacks from extremist and rogue groups. In the end, we need armed guards.

As for the civilian weaponry, there are few gun control laws on Rubi-Ka, and the cities are the destination for a lot of off duty and resuplying military personnel. When you start shooting at our guards, do you expect any other response? Would you give any other response?

[revenant342]

You can't blame Omni-Tek because a neutral group attacked a Clan mining site. We are in no way affiliated with the Neutrals, they chose to break away from Omni-Tek. They even take OUR towers from time to time. Please get solid facts before you start flinging slander at the people to whom you signed a contract to you here in the first place, in exchange for taking an Omni-Tek job. That really puts a dent in our ability to trust anything you say.

[_____________Mihalix]

Where are at war! In war whe take the fight to the others home if whe can! Victory by any means! Whe dont have cruisers and battelships orbiting the planet whe can not nuke your citys! So whe fight by the ways whe got! On RK there are no civilians! All who carry wepons are soldiers (90% of the population)!

[_____________Mihalix]

What makes you think that whe have the same moral ideals? I hell dont agree whit you! Leave morals home in war! There are only econimical political and strategical pionts in a war morals have nothing to do whit war!

[Marisha]

If you abandon your morality to win the war, will you still be able to call yourself human at the end? What cost are you willing to pay to emerge the victor at the end of this conflict? Will you still be able to look at yourself in the mirror, or will you only see the face of the oppressive enemy you believed you were fighting all along?

I’m willing to make sacrifices, but I won’t sacrifice my soul to win this conflict.

[equimon]

*sigh* "More clan propaganda again? They just can't seem to pin something hand steady on us, huh?"

[Xhairs]

Originally posted by Mihalix
Where are at war! In war whe take the fight to the others home if whe can! Victory by any means! Whe dont have cruisers and battelships orbiting the planet whe can not nuke your citys! So whe fight by the ways whe got! On RK there are no civilians! All who carry wepons are soldiers (90% of the population)!

Omni-Tek has not nuked Clan citys to my knowledge. If we did, there would be very little left of them,a nd still they stand there in as perfect health and function as the Clans can afford.

Victory by any means you say? Ok, then you should not complain when the Omni hardliners get their will done and virus-bomb everything not directly controled by OT then. Or when they switch of the Terarformation plants up north so you all suffocate slowly. Still want a war that is "won by any means"? This is no threat. These are actualy suggestions made by the Omni versions of Silverstone and his people. "Victory at any cost".

Right now i´m glad i left the Clans when i did, because talk like some of what we have seen here lately makes me see that some of the Clans have become a monster worse than anything they claim to fight.

[Naefen]

Originally posted by Mihalix
Where are at war! In war whe take the fight to the others home if whe can! Victory by any means! Whe dont have cruisers and battelships orbiting the planet whe can not nuke your citys! So whe fight by the ways whe got! On RK there are no civilians! All who carry wepons are soldiers (90% of the population)!

What gruesome life you must have lived to come to this conclusion..... I suggest you stop and take a good look around yourself. Atleast you confess there are 10% not-soldier people in our population but even that is simply very very wrong.

((00c: In my mind there are infact children running around the streets of our cities we just dont see them because theyre playing hide and seek ))

Doesnt really matter Mihalix because you have time out and again proved what you are all about. You are set out for destruction and nothing else. When Omni Tek are all dead you will find a new enemy to lay the worlds misfortune on.

I have read reports describing what I believe can be linked to you through others who have seen much combat. Its sort of a syndrome. You have become addicted to war and all that belongs to it. The noise, the pain and the killing. Therefore you constantly do your best to agitate everyone so that peace becomes hard. Why am I telling you this? Just want to let you know you are not alone. There are others like you and if you want help Omni-Reform is always ready to help you.

((00c:Lets heat this up a little shall we? Its so slow these days ))

[joshuacrime]

Well, considering the source of this report, namely the Omni-Tek screed sheets, I have already put the paper to good use. Namely lining the bottom of my bird cage. And you know, my parrot still won't poop on it. That ought to tell you something about it's content.

I'm getting so excited whenever this news organization says anything about anything at all. Because what comes out of it is like the fat kid sitting on one side of the seesaw. I don't care WHAT you put on the other side of it, it's not going to ever display a balance. Or the shopping trolley that has a bad wheel. No matter how you push it, it continues to go to the right (or the left depending on your personal philosophical divisors). But really, we know whey they tell falsehoods, don't we? Of course we do! When they print something, it's false! That's easy. Next subject, please.

Once the debate goes past any useful stage, we revert back to the "oh but this is how Clan acts, so why should we put up with this crap" or "I know that Omni-Tek will do this and so we must kill them all before we get it done to us!" and a hundred other miscellaneous statements of blithering blather. None of it is particularly correct, nor is it offered with any kind of dispasstionate detachment. Same old thing in brand new drag.

However, I can say this much. All the preening and pawing I see going on here is quite laughable. Since all sides know that all it's going to take is one idiot doing something horrific, such as letting off a nasty huge bomb that kills tens of thousands of people, or something similar to this, and you can bet that our existence on this planet will be threatened by it's own stupidity. No one here has a monopoly of force, despite what OT thinks they have. How difficult would it be for one side or the other to use something that poisons the water supply forever? The winning side would never do this, but the losing side, having nothing to lose, certainly could. Imagine a cornered Simon Silverstone. That thought alone should give you pause for the cause.

Threats and cajolery get you nowhere, as not one person here is intimidated by any of the other people. But any one of us, with the proper contacts, can really pull a number on the other side, which then escalates it even further, until no one talks and everyone dies.

Fun wow.

[Xhairs]

My point almost to a T.

The problem is, when everyone else is dead, Omni-Prime sends in new collonists and starts mining what Notum is left.

Cold and inhumane, the strategy of a monster? You bet. And some people would like that solution. One of the people holding back those hardliners is Ross, whether you like it or not.

[joshuacrime]

I have no concern over hardliners, they bother me not. Once they have it in their heads to destroy me, I will destroy what it is they want the most. What do I care at that point? The catch phrase, as you mention, is notum. Lots of it on this planet, but I can guarantee you that, if hardliners within OT decide that this is the most rational solution to the current political crisis, then no one will be able to do anything on this planet for thousands, maybe even millions of years. Provided there is a planet left for them to do anything with. Notum is part of this planet, and it's highly reactive. Certainly things could be created to detonate huge stores of it at once, could it not? Biological toxins could be created in this place to destroy all organic life upon it. Chemical toxins could finish off the rest. Booby traps consisting of NBC munitions could be placed off at every place where notum is currently mined and set off by remote control. Oh, the mind reels at what is possible to destroy once that is your only alternative to mindless sociopathic corporate swine like those you refer to.

So, when the hardliners bark, I reach for my earplugs. I don't care what they have to say. Technology of this kind is not a monopoly owned by OT, is it? I'm certain that a hardline Clan organization, in fear of it's very existence and in fear of the existence of all life on this planet from the very evil corporation could approach a third party like the Sol Banking Corporation, or a hundred other hypercorporations and insure that this cash cow of OT's will give no milk ever again. Why wouldn't we? What do we have to lose by doing so? Your own corporation is already suggesting that all it needs to do is kill us all off. I'm already resigned to being dead, so I don't mind wrecking your little sand castle here as much as humanly possible, and when I set my mind to something, I'm usually quite thorough. And remorseless.

Hardliners? Marginalized meatheads such as these give me no pause whatsoever.

[Naefen]

So you dont see this planet as your home then do you Joshuacrime?

[joshuacrime]

This planet is my ONLY home. I'm a nanomage, and I can exist nowhere but Rubi-Ka. Given the current levels of notum depletion in which every colonist, corporate stooge, neutral profiteer is guilty of, my existence is probably limited in the first place.

Be that as it may, it is not me that is threatening anything as a preemptory move. No, my learned debate opponents tell me that without their more "reasoned" voices within OT, hardliners would be removing me and mine from the face of this planet. Complete and total annihilation is their solution to political problems. Given that set of data, I find it laughable in the extreme. But, to play along with the premise, such "threats" are completely useless, because they hold no monopoly on such power. It's like 21 flavors, my friend. Something for everyone in this ice cream pail.

In extremis, though, why do you find this so horrifying? Is it merely because you actually CARE, or is it because a small but dedicated group of rebels that are already reserved to being slaughtered by the retarded waterhead crackerspawn mutant dingweeds that are the hardline faction of OT could actually do something to harm your precious little profit machine? That's more likely, and I find that amusing on a philisophical level. Beyond that, it's mere fluff. Any soldier knows that the use of such weapons in any form breeds more usage of it, it's effects are not predictable and it is not so all-powerful that you would never suffer a retaliation from your first usage of it by those whom you have used it upon.

No, it is a completely silly notion, but just because it's silly doesn't mean that some mulletheaded bonebrain OTAF general might get wood one morning and decide that today is the day we wipe Clan off the planet for good, go push a button, and retire back to bed where he will then enjoy self-stimulation while watching the corporate profit statements fly by the plasma screen by the bed.

[Xhairs]

Originally posted by Joshua Crime

In extremis, though, why do you find this so horrifying? Is it merely because you actually CARE, or is it because a small but dedicated group of rebels that are already reserved to being slaughtered by the retarded waterhead crackerspawn mutant dingweeds that are the hardline faction of OT could actually do something to harm your precious little profit machine? That's more likely, and I find that amusing on a philisophical level. Beyond that, it's mere fluff. Any soldier knows that the use of such weapons in any form breeds more usage of it, it's effects are not predictable and it is not so all-powerful that you would never suffer a retaliation from your first usage of it by those whom you have used it upon.

Oh, so it´s totaly impossible then that i have family, friends and relatives amongst the Clans that i care about and don´t want to see dead or suffering? And yes, i know that if we used such weapons against the Clans you would more than likely retaliate in the smae way. I know. But the hardliners don´t know. Or don´t care.

[joshuacrime]

Fine by me. The hardline OT interpretation of this is that if they use such weapons, it will essentially destroy all life on this planet after all of the counterattacks, counter-counterattacks and so on have taken place. Then they will come and mop up. I have news for you. No, they won't. Because there won't BE anything for them to mop up. Being a former trooper, I've learned that you cannot live permanently inside of a chemical suit, but anyone on this planet would have to once this occured. They just don't get it, do they? Not to mention that it would take you CENTURIES to clean it up, and there would be more "surprises" left over for crews that were doing any sort of mining on this planet to find. We'd even leave robotic ones that would seek out notum, then seek out organic life forms and detonate once in range of that life form. I find it very funny that OT thinks that this kind of solution is even possible, but it shows the greedy mentality of the corporation as a whole.

But this is my point in the first place. They don't get it, and they don't care how many lives they take, how many planets they will destroy, or how many things that don't belong to them they will pilfer in order to satisfy the hunger that lies beneath the gaping maw of the Leviathan known as OTRK. It is the main reason that I went to the side of Clan, because I know that with absolute power comes absolute corruption. That maxim didn't mention the part about absolute insanity, did it?

Honestly, OT people, if THIS is your idea of how to govern a planet, how to govern your people, and how to run a business, then you are so mentally flawed, it's beyond my imagination.

[Marisha]

When the Corporation first came to Rubi-Ka, it was an ADP. It took us forty-eight years to complete stage one teraforming. During that time, we exceeded our goal of shipping one million tons of refined Notum a year, transported thousands of colonists and their equipment to the surface, and created the Homo Atrox.

We did this all in suits much more uncomfortable and constraining than a chemical suit.

Am I saying that we should nuke the north till it glows? No, I’m not. Because that is not how you manage a planet, no mater what your clan propaganda machine may teach you. We have not used orbit to ground ordinance on civilian targets, despite having seen first hand the effect it can have, nor did we use the sixteen year period when we had reclaim tech and the clans didn’t to our advantage.

Why didn’t we press the advantage and wipe the Clans out? Because it would be wrong. Such acts are an atrocity in the eyes of the galactic community, because it goes against every thing civilized society is based on.

Sure, there are going to be nutjobs that call for such things, but their still nutjobs. The civilized thing to do is to ensure that they are marginalized and never gain high office.

[Xhairs]

Joshua, you seem to have missed what i am trying to say here, or i´ve been too vague.

I don´t want war, i want peace. I long for the day when i can hang up my gun permanently and walk around all over Ka without my armor. I want this, my homeworld, to be the place where me and my wife can live safely, and our children can grow up knowing nothing of war but what the history books teaches. I want it to be that way for all people, from all sides. This may be a dream, but it is a dream that might come true if we, the people that want it, are all willing to work for it.

Peace is not going to come through you sitting back and gulping down a can of "See if i care" while munching a "My-way-or-the-highway" sandwich. We had a realistical chance of peace going, but we let the fanatics and warmongers from both sides take it to an early grave. That chance came through negotiations, by talking, by settling some of our dissagreements and meeting halfway on other things.

The Clans are never going to give in to the "Tow the line" policy Omni Prime would want. Neither is OTRK going to leave because the Sentinels and a few of their groupies have decided they will never rest untill Omni is off the planet. Somewhere halfway between those extremes, we can find the common ground. That place where at least the majority of us can live, and if not be actual friends, at least not shoot at each other every chance we get.