Page 5 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 LastLast
Results 81 to 100 of 285

Thread: >> CLAN's advantage <<

  1. #81
    Originally posted by Greythorn
    This is just a discussion not a flame...


    History has proved time and time again that vast empires with more advanced technologies have conquered alot more territory than the odd rebel faction (see british, romans, mongols, need i go on?) So from an RP point of view my statement does make sense; and your point is conceeded but only as an exception not the rule.
    Well, if Omni-Tek can be compared to the British empire, why are Clans still here? Its becuase of heavy resistance, you cant throw us out cause we never give up, we have no place to go, its fight or permanent die. For omnis you got a choice, you have many planets etc, and becuse of that not so much to fight for. So in this case it is the rule, not the exception.

    And you have to remember, all empires fall sooner or later, none survive for all times. So now it is Omni-Tek that is falling, and Clans is on the offensive, this makes it the rule.
    Last edited by Garzu; Dec 27th, 2001 at 05:40:04.
    NT phone HOME!!

  2. #82

    Unhappy repeat

    Clan Advantage cannot be related to tradeskills:

    as this is what most traders (and some engineers) are playing for;
    with the exception of the latecomers who think it's
    a get-rich-quick profession, who will disappear once
    the overequiping changes 'nerf' the profitability of wrangles.

    anyone who enjoys tradeskills would be forced to go clan.

    that is *the whole point of our profession*,
    you cant only fully implement it on one side.

    what if only clan MPs got a 3rd pet?
    how many MPs would stay omni . . ?


    -Blackmarket:

    again, this cannot be a clan-only thing.
    its obviously a Fixer thing (with maybe Traders playing a part)
    so you have to give it to all the Fixers, not just half of them.
    again, *the whole point of the profession* (as first described)

    how many Fixers would stay Omni if only
    clan fixers got access to the black-market?



    also

    -Omni-only armor is str/stam-only armor.
    ie. most Omnis cant use it!

    at least all Clan professions have the option of joining a guild,
    so dont complain about the method of that proposed advantage
    Last edited by Ejeckted; Dec 27th, 2001 at 08:32:45.

  3. #83

    Angry

    Reality check for you my friend :

    Go to any OT city : you find any item you want sold by players in 5 min, prices are 40-50% higher than on CLAN side.
    --> There is an advantage here : more money, more items.

    Talk to ppl : some hard-core gamers are using tradeskills. Even newly blood plasma tradeskill is rather unused, when everybody and his cousin, know that you can make a lot of creds with it.
    --> Tradeskills are just for a minority, even if they are very very interseting.

    Omni Pol is crap ? OT monetary advantage does not exist ?
    --> OK let's petition to supress them, I'm sure that it would be the best way to handle this my friend. Now look around you : EVERYONE is wearing some part of Omni-Pol armor in OT territories (except NT and MP). Don't make me laugh again saying that Omni-Pol is not higly demanded and priced.

    Blackmarket on CLAN is not fair ?
    --> You're a trader so go RP or get money by making CHOICES (hey you know it's supposed to be a part of this game) : get money and have all items easily availbale on OT side or go CLAN side and deal with some illegal items.

    Guild ... ?
    --> What are you talking about CLAN guild advantage were NEVER active. Mmmh... that's going along very well with your over statements.

    Just a rapid answer to some more whining that ppl feel they have to share.

    Your ego is ugly my friend. Try to talk to ppl in game and socialize and check what's going : GET A CLUE.

    oh, and two more word :

    PROPOSE IDEAS

    Sorry not to be as moderate as I always try to be on this board, but I start to have hard times coping with stupidity.

    As always, I'd be pleased to group with you on RK1, talk directly and discover the nice mature person you are.
    Last edited by Unexpected; Dec 27th, 2001 at 09:23:41.
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  4. #84

    i like to argue

    "Go to any OT city : you find any item you want sold by players in 5 min, prices are 40-50% higher than on CLAN side.
    --> There is an advantage here : more money, more items. "

    um .. i call the insanely high prices a disadvantage ..
    people paying 30mil for things are (mostly) exploiters.
    that money then filters down and causes massive inflation.
    maybe we have more exploiters on the omni side?
    dont see your reasoning here tho.


    "Talk to ppl : some hard-core gamers are using tradeskills. Even newly blood plasma tradeskill is rather unused, when everybody and his cousin, know that you can make a lot of creds with it.
    --> Tradeskills are just for a minority, even if they are very very interseting. "

    um, yeah, but converting moster parts to plasma is a stupid boring tradeskill given to docs to cure their financial problems. yes, you can do better things with the plasma but i've seen docs trying to sell these kits at cost with still no buyers.

    traders, who are asking for real interesting creative complex tradeskills, have been begging forever for the ability to create custom weapons or at least mod existing ones .. the idea that only clan players should be allowed to do that is rediculous.


    "Omni Pol is crap ? OT monetary advantage does not exist ?
    --> OK let's petition to supress them, I'm sure that it would be the best way to handle this my friend. Now look around you : EVERYONE is wearing some part of Omni-Pol armor in OT territories (except NT and MP). Don't make me laugh again saying that Omni-Pol is not higly demanded and priced. "

    It's not crap (never said it was), but it's not uber either.
    Since the changes after release that made all armor types
    much more alike, it's just not that superior .. very weak in
    Chemical AC (3rd most common damage type in PvM, and
    still common in PvP) and if i end up wearing any it will have
    to be suplemented with some Vitos to balance the weakness.
    That however was not my main point, My point was that
    about 2/3rds of players do not use str/stam armor.
    What about those who use int/psy, psy/stam, agil/str, sense/agil?
    Where is their Omni equipment advantage?


    "Guild ... ?
    --> What are you talking about CLAN guild advantage were NEVER active. Mmmh... that's going along very well with your over statements. "

    I never said the guild advantages were active yet,
    but the items were in shops, so that was the original
    intention and that is still the official intention as
    recently stated on these boards.


    "Blackmarket on CLAN is not fair ?
    --> You're a trader so go RP or get money by making CHOICES (hey you know it's supposed to be a part of this game) : get money and have all items easily availbale on OT side or go CLAN side and deal with some illegal items. "

    I play a Trader along with a few other professions.
    I dont know anything about this BlackMarket and neither do you.
    Fixers need it, Traders might fit into it, others would have a hard
    time justifying it. But if this is truely the new lifeblood of the Fixers
    (who desperately need some loving from FC) then how can you
    justify only a clan fixer getting it? All Fixers on the Omni side
    just miss out on the whole purpose of their profession?


    It's silly, and I dont see how you and some of these other posters
    cant see that some of these ideas you are suggesting would result in a mass-exodus of at least 3 professions from one side to the other, totally imbalancing the game.

    I dont care about Omni or Clan politics on this board,
    we can call them 'Team A' and 'Team B' for all I care,
    but A and B need to be a balanced place for all professions
    to fit into without being forced to make a RP decision based
    on overwhelming game-dynamic advantages.

  5. #85

    Re: i like to argue

    Originally posted by Scumbug
    It's silly, and I dont see how you and some of these other posters cant see that some of these ideas you are suggesting would result in a mass-exodus of at least 3 professions from one side to the other, totally imbalancing the game.
    I'm posting quite a bit here, but I must confess that I was just pissed off by the accumulation of negative posts in this thread.

    English is not my native tongue so I had to check again :
    ad·van·tage
    Function: noun
    Etymology: Middle English avantage, from Middle French, from avant before, from Late Latin abante
    Date: 1523
    1 : superiority of position or condition <higher ground gave the enemy the advantage>
    2 : a factor or circumstance of benefit to its possessor <lacked the advantages of an education>


    So it seems that I did understood this word quite exactly. When CLAN are asking their advantage(s) there are not asking something that would be UNILATERAL. And seeing every OT player jumping on this thinking that they are just about to be **** is tiedous.

    Just try to understant once for all that having an advantage does not imply that OT will not have a) any other advantage or b) the same advantage in a lesser extent or again c) both a) and b).

    The fact that OT have a slight but real monetary advantage does not imply that CLAN cannot buy items in a shop ! So I'd be pleased to go on and discuss in this thread, but don't just assume that claners are demanding that tradeskills should be clan only or whatever bullshOt.

    Now I'd be happy to elaborate...

    Tradeskills
    OK new tradeskills like weapon enhancement are on their way. A CLAN advantage could be : more TS shops, less expensive TS components, more TS loot on mobs in CLAN territories, 2-3 CLAN-specific TS items.

    Black Market
    I don't know what decision FC will take and if this is going to be some kind of Fixer-only shops. But once again having an advantage as a claner would make sense : more shops, better prices, ... you name it.


    I've tried to be as positive and constructive as possible.
    I really don't bother much too about the opposition OT / CLAN.

    It's just that I would be pretty surprised and happy to see some OT posters starting a reply in this thread that would goes like :

    " As an OT member I fell that a fair CLAN advantage would be (tadadadadda) when OT should have some improvements in (tadidididididi) "


    Let me see this and I shall post again in this thread.

    Have fun out there.
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  6. #86

    ok good

    "Tradeskills
    OK new tradeskills like weapon enhancement are on their way. A CLAN advantage could be : more TS shops, less expensive TS components, more TS loot on mobs in CLAN territories, 2-3 CLAN-specific TS items. "

    agreed on all except the last item in that list.
    if a clan advantage is that doing mods is more convienient, ok.
    i can live with that. as long as it's all still possible.
    that's something like the small discount omnis get in shops.
    a luxury advantage.
    however, im wary of any clan-specific tradeskill items,
    unless they too are more about convenience/RP.
    (instead of trying to make one sides traders
    absolutly better at making stuff than the other sides)


    I also realized i forgot to argue with you on this point in your last post

    "Tradeskills are just for a minority, even if they are very very interseting. " "

    go take a look at the polls
    the number of players saying that the thing they would most like improved in AO are tradeskills = about 20% = lots of players want it.
    the lack of practice/popularity now is only due to the complete
    waste of time most of this stuff is right now.
    that's why every trader/engineer/fixer(good tradeskills too)
    is begging for truely custom-designable weaponry etc
    (with many well thought out suggestions in other threads)
    AO is the perfect enviornment for this, and would totally blow
    away all the dye-your-armor bs in other games.


    "Black Market
    I don't know what decision FC will take and if this is going to be some kind of Fixer-only shops. But once again having an advantage as a claner would make sense : more shops, better prices, ... you name it. "

    ditto.
    bigger black-market / more availability, fine.
    makes sense from a RP perspective too.
    but again it must be possible for the other side
    to achieve the same ends with a little extra effort.


    now,
    none of this has even been spoken by FC
    and all these points are probably moot
    as the clan-guild/omni-department system
    seem to be the way things are gonna go.
    cool with me.

    " As an OT member I fell that a fair CLAN advantage would be (tadadadadda) "

    ok, under that system, here's how i think it should work.

    Clan Advantage is distributed via guild.
    These are all supposed to be 'clans', not one single side/entinty anyway.. with infighting amongst themselves etc etc as per the story/movies.
    The Guildleader charges a Guildtax which he may use to purchase skill upgrades (such as the +10 1HB item we've all seen) only these are fully implemented and there are bonuses for all skills available as well as 'custom/RP' items such as the lovely 'no atrox allowed' one we've also seen.

    example of the Clan Guild "Dirty Hippies"

    only atrox and opifex allowed/
    no solitus or nanomage.
    Monarchy infastructure
    +10 brawling
    +10 thrown weapons
    +20 swimming
    400 credits per day deducted from members
    4000 credits per day deducted from guild bank
    (blah, blah, blah however the numbers end up working)


    "when OT should have some improvements in (tadidididididi) " "

    Omni-Tek has Departments
    but the Departments are NPC based and not the same as guilds
    (guilds in omni being nothing but a social/RP element)
    so your 'department' would be another seperate category.

    the Omni-Tek advantage is supposed to be in better equipment,
    but as i've stated standard omnipol/elite armor aint that much of
    an advantage and is not available to many of the omni professions.

    therefore, the Omni departments should issue special
    armor-types only to members of that specific department
    that give small bonuses to the skill their members would use.
    This armor should be not only omni-only, but department-only,
    and become unwearable if you switch departments later.
    (or perhpas department would be automatic based on profession?)

    like Omni-Med armor that has similar stats/bonuses as
    biomech, but also adds +1 biomet per piece.

    you would have to purchase this armor from the department
    and it would be considerably more expensive than comparable
    'standard' armor.

    I could go on with ideas if the departments were established but .. i just cant remember names/descriptions of most of them right now..

    but you get the idea.

  7. #87

    Re: Are we getting somewhere ? I think so.

    Well getting pissed off brings result.

    Originally posted by Gummizluv
    (zap) OT monetary advanatge cannot stand alone. Specialised armors for other profession should be added too : Elite Medical Corp. Tunics - Elite Priesthood Robes - Elite Scout Armors - Elite CEO Board Suits - etc ...

    Hence the STR/STA armors advantage will be extended to other OT divisions, inforcing by the way a dressing policy : omni will tend to look all the same as it should be in such a mega-company. (zap)
    Why do I have to quote myself ?
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  8. #88

    Unhappy opps

    I made a boo-boo!

    "This armor should be not only omni-only, but department-only,
    and become unwearable if you switch departments later.
    (or perhpas department would be automatic based on profession?)"

    I retract this thought. bad idea.
    thought about it more and realized that it would screw a lot of people. . like take my trader for example, he is using int/psy armor because he is going to focus on tradeskills, but many traders are using agil/str armor because they are focusing on combat .. so what stats would the trader-department armor require? so, yeah, more flexability is necessary . . ::shrug::

    make a dozen departments with a dozen armor types
    and let the player choose department based on RP and/or
    what armor-type they want to use.

  9. #89
    So, make them level or title based then. Then those non-standard (if you can say that) chars are still going to get the same benefits.
    *poof*


    Finally free from this nightmare!

  10. #90

    Post

    1. The Clan population shouldn't have to belong to a guild in order to receive any type of advantage. The clan's entire belief structure is based on their desire for independence, so forcing them to belong to an organization of any type is tantamount to Omni membership anyway.
    To the above: You are Clans. This is not the Army of One. Advantages, disadvantages, political decisions, are all made by leaders of clans. Clanless vagabonds may as well be Neutral.

    What? You're a Knight? Sure, I'll give you 5% off. You? You're a clanner too eh? What clan then?


    I have yet to see a real justification as to why clans -should- have any advantage. And none of this 'because Omni does' garbage. Last I checked rebels fought despite disadvantages.

    <edit> Before you get all angry, I've provided justification below.

    We're all aware of the diversity of choices you get when you make a character. I would think that anyone who's read a site or the manual would be able to guess that playing a clan member is harder. The way I see it, Omni's minimal or imagined advantages aren't enough.

    But there should be restrictions.

    Omni should have (some would say does have) a big advantage because they're a legitimate megacorp. But where is the rule of law? Where are the ICC restrictions? Why are illegal weapons (like the stigma rifle, and some others) usable by Omni employees?

    The only real advantages rebels typically have are familiarity with terrain, and not being bound by the rule of law. Instead of looking for skillgains, which in game terms, just don't make sense to me.. where are the dirty tricks? Where are the things that Omnitek isn't allowed to use? Where's the poison gas, the landmines, the biological weapons..

    I'm not saying the rebels shouldn't have any advantages. I'm saying that if they are given such, it *must* make sense in game terms, or else it's just yet another departure from the roleplaying game in an attempt to be 'fair.'

    I would think that whatever technologies in this day and age are so horrific as to be outlawed by the ICC should prove significant enough advantage to balance the scales.

    That is the strength of the Clans. They can do things Omni can't.

    I envision Omni-Tek as a militaristic corporation, with rules of engagement, set methods of attack and defense, rules regarding the purchase and distribution of goods, and paper trails. To this end, some of the uniform requirements I've seen suggested sound about right. I'd also like to see regular reports to your C/O or something similar, maybe a mission quota that you need to meet. Omni employees should learn that advantages are paid for. (That is, assuming you consider 10,000 credits over your career in discounts and fancy black armor that 1/5th of players wear an advantage.)

    The Clans do what they can, when they can, with whatever they can (legal or not), and get the job done. Maybe they use outlawed weapons, or falsified papers, or illegal methods of transport.. there should be something here that is currently missing.

    Lets distance ourselves from changes that come 'just because it's fair' while we can.
    Last edited by Red Falcon; Dec 28th, 2001 at 04:15:19.

  11. #91

    not a great idea either

    "So, make them level or title based then. Then those non-standard (if you can say that) chars are still going to get the same benefits."

    level-based is kind of the same thing as QLs
    except you cant overequip at all .. even within
    that new 20% rule (or however it ends up happening)
    which would put all omnis at a big equipment DISadvantage.
    (opposite of intended)

    and title-based is even worse;
    would you really want the same armor at the start of
    title4(level100) until title5(level190) . . ouch.

  12. #92
    Originally posted by Red Falcon
    The only real advantages rebels typically have are familiarity with terrain, and not being bound by the rule of law. Instead of looking for skillgains, which in game terms, just don't make sense to me.. where are the dirty tricks? Where are the things that Omnitek isn't allowed to use? Where's the poison gas, the landmines, the biological weapons..
    Can we consider these are some propositions... ?

    I rather disagree with your whole post and mainly with the "why should CLAN get any advantage" of course.

    As you can imagine the balance factor overcome whatever is YOUR very personal idea about role-playing. And for discussion sake I'll just think it's not biased at all (well, I have yet to see a clanner say that he does not want advantage balance btw).

    Now please as I have to ask each time : ela-bo-ra-te.

    Give us idea of what you feel would be interseting CLAN advantage : new biological weapons ? nerve gaz ? poison ?

    OK fine with me.

    How would FC implement this ?

    Some poison brewing tradeskill for blade users ? Some biological warfare skill to contaminate HB ? Some nano virus bullets to scramble ICC technology and make edath recovery longer ?

    Where are your ideas when you disagree my friends ?
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  13. #93
    Oh by the way and if it's not clear, even if I disagree a lot with your view guys I'm happy to have this discussion.

    I'd be happy too to know your profession / level / server and if you are in a guild or not.
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  14. #94

    im uber

    <-lev85 Trader RK1 unguilded, getting less playtime lately
    until tradeskills, especially weapon-building,
    (1) work (2) are profitable (3) are fun

    focusing on getting my nano-enforcer into stungloves right now

  15. #95
    Why the hell is everyone so obsessed with overequipping? QL 100 is ment for an average person at level 100. End of story.

    And last since I checked, there was 6 titles. 5 is at level 150, if I'm not wrong. And yes, I don't mind. Already happening with boards. Are people complaining about that? Nah, it works really well. Why not tie it to your board rank? I mean, they are connected to your work (for omnis). Be faithful to your employer, and you will get benefits.
    *poof*


    Finally free from this nightmare!

  16. #96
    OK lets see, Omni have had their advantages since day one, which was when they needed them the most by the way, and the advantages that were intended for the clans from the BEGINNING of the game are now going to be implimented sometime in the "FUTAR", at some point which my best guess says 8+ months into the game, and the Omni are screaming BLOODY MURDER.

    A +20 skill bonus doesn't mean that much to a level 150 character. It's nice but a faded implant will do the SAME. It will mean that at higher levels we will be able to use weapons a few (as in 1 to 3) qls higher, and this won't even matter past 150 anyway since as far as weapons go, every 150+ player can self buff into 200 weapons.

    In the uber-twink-re-roll dept, yes it will have a more signifigant impact. BIG DEAL. If you fight someone under level 40 you can't expect much balance because of the nature of twinking in the game already. At level 50 the advantage will be less important.

    Anyway, no one is going to leave the game or switch sides over this one issue. Omni still have substantial unmentioned advantages over clan at lower levels, better hunting grounds, a more finished side of the map (I bet twice as much time was spent developing omni territories over clan territories) cheaper grid access, and the ONLY non arena PVP area that is populated is guarded by omni NPCs that omni players ALWAYS use to help them fight.

    Come on omni, which one of you would trade all those unmentioned advantages for a +20 skill bonus? I bet none of you.

  17. #97
    WGMelchior, is your post remotely related to the thread ?
    "Donner à des millions une connaissance de l'anglais, c'est les rendre esclaves". (Hind Swarâj, ch. 18)

  18. #98

    Talking My idea!

    Okay, read up to page 4, so not sure if this has been suggested yet.

    Make Omni only armor *Lines*

    Omni Pol Elite. Str/Sta
    Omni Pol Stealth Sen/Agi
    Omni Nano Int/Psy

    Give them protection in ALL areas. ALL. Meaning NO WEAKNESS. And give them MORE ac. IE Ql200 Chest piece will give you 1000 MAX ac in a catagory. Make it 1250 for the Omni armor. Make 4 of the catagories 1250, and the rest 1000/875.

    THAT is an armor advantage.

    And give the clans REASONABLE skill advantages for guilds.

  19. #99
    And make the "side" check on zone - to stop people swapping sides for armor and going back.

    If you hear "WAAAH ALL MY ARMOR DEEQUIPPED" after patch 14.9, well then TOO BAD - You knew you were wearing OMNI armor and you weren't supposed to be
    Last edited by Kinkstaah; Dec 28th, 2001 at 18:04:05.

  20. #100
    Well, might be a bit remote...

    This is about clan advantages. People then complained that omni advantages were to crappy. We want the sides to be different, right? So the advantages on both sides has to be pretty well though out, and quite important too.

    I just pointed out some ways to make the omni advantages (and indirectly the clan advantages) useful to everyone.



    It was slightly off topic, but you got to expect that sometimes. It was a reply to someone elses post too, but that is no real excuse. If anyone finds it annoying that I sometimes go off topic, then I appologize for it. I do think that discussions should be varied, though.



    The clan skill bonus was already set in stone when the game was launched. Skill bonus based on your guild. The omni bonus were too. Equipment based on your department. Neither of these are really in game, so the bonuses we do get are just 'side-effects'. Don't judge anything by those.

    I really hope people chose the side they want to play. Not the one with the biggest advantages. If those +20 seems too much at early levels, then base it on a combination of some of these:


    Title level - A chief engineer would likely be able to grasp more complicated tutoring than a mechanic.

    Level - Since these bonuses are most needed close to new title levels, maybe a small bonus based on your level can even this out.

    Guild rank - Since these bonuses are based on guilds in the first place, your rank should affect your bonus. Guilds give more support to those high up. This has to be controlled in some way, since otherwise guilds would just promote everyone to the max.

    Board rank - Since this already gives bonuses to some skills, I think this should be reworked so that it gives bonuses according to profession. What use does a soldier have of the nano programming bonus later on? They should get a general init bonus or weapon bonus instead. Same goes for agents/conceal+rifle and every other class, in some way.


    Summary: If you are afraid of exessive twinking with an overall constant bonus to a skill, then just make up ideas where it isn't so. The difference should be just as big for a level 50 as a level 150, IMHO. Also, the guild rank should be included in some way, since it is one of the few ways to actually reward roleplaying in this game.
    Last edited by WGMelchior; Dec 28th, 2001 at 18:31:45.
    *poof*


    Finally free from this nightmare!

Page 5 of 15 FirstFirst 123456789101112131415 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •