Clans and Neutrals: Restoring Neutrality

[SneakyPax]

Just pointing out the obvious Mr Dewille, please no melodrama pointing out that I try to cause havoc. If you'd stop being so naive and read between the lines you'd realize the real message behind it - just a cowardly, low down attempt to rally up neutrals against Omni-Tek personnel.

[______________Xtraav]

It´s up to you how you interprete it, and what you want to read between the lines.

[Mrevil]

Originally posted by Xtraav
Sallust started out and tried to bring peace between neutrals and the clans... He asked for ideas how to bring two parties together in friendship, yet, as usual Omni-Tek jumps in and tries to cause havoc.

Thats how you intepret this, however i can assure you that you are wrong.

While we have peace in mind, OT tries to break it, by whatever means neccessary. And it is OT who see neutrals as "with us or against us",

Is that why clanners have taken all opportunity to attack neutrals towers? You surely have an odd way of showing friendship.

the majority of clans, those who have an important word to say in the council, still think that true neutrals are our friends, and it doesn´t matter if we have any contact or not, we are totally ok with them wanting to be left out of this conflict.

I have heard a majority of clans voting that they do Not want to have anything to do with neutrals... They seemed to be a vast majority... Perhaps CoT isnt on clans side since you obviously do not agree?
So even if you in CoT think you are fancy, you are Not in majority... So how do you explain this?

The header of this letter reads Clans and Neutrals, so please OT brainwashed propaganda herolds, stay out of this. It only shows the neutrals what you are really up to.

I beleive that we being engaged in the neutrals community shows them that Omni-Tek Do care and do not leave them outside like clans do.

It is obvious for me that you, sir, are the brainwashed one after listening to your ramble here. Perhaps other clanners should have some more insight in what you are actually doing in CoT.

Regards.

[_______________Keyth]

There will always be neutrals.

Those on both sides who forsee, or perhaps wish for, the day when the neutral enclaves burn underneath the guns of militants may indeed prove their prescience. The neutral territories may be overrun, sacked, pillaged, even sown with salt. The few remaining notum production facilities not already under the control of a clutching monolith or a gaggle of obsteperous warlords may indeed be destroyed or taken over.

None of this will eliminate the existence of neutrals, or as I like to think of myself, of independents. If Borealis and Newland City disappear into the sands of time, some other outpost, tiny, ramshackle and remote tho it may be, will spring into existence as the home for us, for the idea of neutrality cannot be destroyed like a city can. It is the product of the great aspirations of man and will spring forth whenever and wherever it can. Yes, our existence may well become even more dangerous, but it is as certain as anything can be in this life.

Having said that, I for one would miss Borealis, for I have come to think of it quite fondly as my home. I welcome any attempt to reduce the tension which increasingly surrounds us, and view Sallust's call, tinged with his Clan biased opinions as it is, as a worthy one. The very fact that it has quickly degenerated into vituperative accusations from both sides merely illustrates why many of us who proudly call ourselves neutral are frequently moved to say to the extremists from both sides: "A pox on both your houses!"

The quotes of the ancient Earth politician Benjamin Franklin have been thrown into the fray recently. They remind me of another quote from that long ago time: "Give me liberty or give me death!"

[_________Ghostjaguar]

Well said, Kyyth. Well said indeed.

[______________Xtraav]

Mr. Evil

There may be some conflict of interest between the clans, and between the CoT and other clans, however, this is a democratic structure, we allow freedom of speech, and it is only natural that not everyone is of the same opinion.

The Clans are not a dictatorship where one commands and the others follow (unlike other organisations ). We decide on majority votes, and often one clan is not happy with the decisions that are made. But we have to accept it, that is how it works, and when rogue clans decide to take actions against neutrals you cannot blame it on the CoT or on every other clan.

Even within a single clan there can be different opinions, but we have learned to discuss it. That may be something OT needs to learn again.

If you have questions regarding democracy I am sure I can answer some of your questions. Always willing to teach a few OT employees to think for themselves.



Kyyth

I fully understand your view, and agree with you on everything you said. A true neutral will never cease to exist, but there are, similar to the Clans, also rogue neutrals, who made it their goal to favor a side over the other. I do not call this neutral anymore, and if one of these clans attacks Clan (or OT) bases then we reserve the right to strike back. Who would allow others to invade their homes? You would not, and Clan would not either.

[Keldros]

Originally posted by Xtraav

A true neutral will never cease to exist, but there are, similar to the Clans, also rogue neutrals, who made it their goal to favor a side over the other. I do not call this neutral anymore

Given this statement, I think it would be interesting to hear your opinion of clanners who help Omni-tek attack neutrals.

[______________Xtraav]

Originally posted by Keldros

Given this statement, I think it would be interesting to hear your opinion of clanners who help Omni-tek attack neutrals.

I cannot tell you how our clan sees this, but I can tell you my personal opinion.

I condem those actions, and I am sure the CoT also does not welcome such actions. There are rogue clans, and, like I said, you cannot hold all clans responsible for the actions of a few. And even if it is many who practise this, I hope for a new direction, where Clan stand side by side and "fight" for a peaceful future on Rubi-Ka.

I am a peaceful man, and I offer my services to anyone, also OT, when I am in, or around Jobe. Some goals can only be reached together, and fighting over things like ideology, race, gender, sex, religion, etc... should be things of the past.
We have fought too many wars on Rubi-Ka, let´s do something constructive now instead of all the killing.

[Mrevil]

Originally posted by Xtraav
Mr. Evil

There may be some conflict of interest between the clans, and between the CoT and other clans, however, this is a democratic structure, we allow freedom of speech, and it is only natural that not everyone is of the same opinion.

The Clans are not a dictatorship where one commands and the others follow (unlike other organisations ). We decide on majority votes, and often one clan is not happy with the decisions that are made. But we have to accept it, that is how it works, and when rogue clans decide to take actions against neutrals you cannot blame it on the CoT or on every other clan.

Even within a single clan there can be different opinions, but we have learned to discuss it. That may be something OT needs to learn again.

If you have questions regarding democracy I am sure I can answer some of your questions. Always willing to teach a few OT employees to think for themselves.

As usual, very ignorant from a clanner.

Omni-tek is divided into many, many branches and often clanners blame stuff that happens on omni-tek as a whole... So why wouldnt we blame CoT as a whole when that is a branch that tries to "rule" over clanners.

I do not think that clanners believe in democracy, one need only watch your lifestyle... You are anarchist and are best fitted in jail at the best. At least most branches of clanners, but as you do, perhaps i should blame the whole of clan?

I doubt you can learn me anything.

[______________Xtraav]

Originally posted by Mrevil


...

Omni-tek is divided into many, many branches and often clanners blame stuff that happens on omni-tek as a whole... So why wouldnt we blame CoT as a whole when that is a branch that tries to "rule" over clanners.

...


I doubt you can learn me anything.

So you see how it feels to be treated that way. Good, you already learned something from me.

What you call anarchist is just a person with a free mind.

[Mrevil]

Originally posted by Xtraav


So you see how it feels to be treated that way. Good, you already learned something from me.

What you call anarchist is just a person with a free mind.

It seems you totally lack any education here...
Clanners are divided into many branches if you didnt know it.. As are omni-tek And neutrals.

You are indeed very ignorant. It seems that im talking to a wall here, since you clearly do not understand what i am telling you.

However, one can not expect much else from someone that hasnt reached same level of expertise as me and many of my friends. And that you being a clanner that rejects neutrals from your own side regarding cooperation of many aspects doesnt make it any better.

You really should look into your own corner before stating any at all.

[______________Xtraav]

Originally posted by Mrevil


It seems you totally lack any education here...
Clanners are divided into many branches if you didnt know it.. As are omni-tek And neutrals.

You are indeed very ignorant. It seems that im talking to a wall here, since you clearly do not understand what i am telling you.

However, one can not expect much else from someone that hasnt reached same level of expertise as me and many of my friends. And that you being a clanner that rejects neutrals from your own side regarding cooperation of many aspects doesnt make it any better.

You really should look into your own corner before stating any at all.

You seem so full of anger, MrEvil.
Your so called expertise does not shield you from generalisations and prejudice. In time you will learn that your employee Omni-Tek is not Omni Potent.

You can throw your accusations at me whenever you like. If it makes you feel better I am gladly your target.

And when did I say something about rejecting neutrals? From what? Who? When? ... and why?

Ask your expert friends and try to enlighten me, please, MrEvil.

[Mrevil]

Originally posted by Xtraav


You seem so full of anger, MrEvil.
Your so called expertise does not shield you from generalisations and prejudice. In time you will learn that your employee Omni-Tek is not Omni Potent.

You can throw your accusations at me whenever you like. If it makes you feel better I am gladly your target.

And when did I say something about rejecting neutrals? From what? Who? When? ... and why?

Ask your expert friends and try to enlighten me, please, MrEvil.

Clans have rejected neutrals from many events now... they are no longer allowed in helping clans to kill those devious merceneries nor are they allowed in any other activites where our sides have had help from neutrals in the past... However omni-tek Do allow neutrals in those stuff.

It seems that you are not one that should talk about clan-related stuff since you do have no appearant knowledge of the politics, not that i expected it from you. Those involved in the politics would know that clans have rejected neutrals.


((OOC: i read it all i wrote again, and i sound hostile.. however i am not hostile against you as person, just to clear it out mate))

[______________Xtraav]

Originally posted by Mrevil


Clans have rejected neutrals from many events now... they are no longer allowed in helping clans to kill those devious merceneries nor are they allowed in any other activites where our sides have had help from neutrals in the past... However omni-tek Do allow neutrals in those stuff.

It seems that you are not one that should talk about clan-related stuff since you do have no appearant knowledge of the politics, not that i expected it from you. Those involved in the politics would know that clans have rejected neutrals.


((OOC: i read it all i wrote again, and i sound hostile.. however i am not hostile against you as person, just to clear it out mate))

((OOC: I take it as you mean it, in character I have no problem at all, in fact I do enjoy it

Though I doubt that you can say that the Mercbot ban for neutrals is something in character... it´s done by people OOC, and i will not comment it, i dont post in that forum cuz it annoys the hell out of me how people feel uber just because they have a higher level char or play the game for years, picking on every new player there is, every new player has to be afraid to team up with an old-timer, or at least, that is the impression given in that forum. Let alone the term Generation HX is some kind of racist to me. It fills me with grief and I do not post about things I have strong feelings about, could get out of hands, and I want to remain in a friendly OOC environment. Hope you understand that. ))

Back to topic. I am well aware of the political issues regarding the various clans, and that there are extreme point of views, Sentinel - Pilgrims. I am not happy with the closure of Tir for neutrals, in fact we Pilgrims try to encourage neutrals to come to Athen and see for themselves that not all Clans are hostile to them. And I am sure that, given enough time, also the Sentinels will come to their mind and allow Neutrals to Tir again. But that is something the CoT has to decide, and I am sure our emissary Sallust does everything he can in order to achieve this goal.

I am also afraid of the warning that followed after the Beast was slain, so maybe it is about time for us all to stick together and prepare for what might come.

[Mrevil]

((OOC: yeah, those things suxx.. but yes, my former statements are in character only))


Well, im in no position to say whether or not Sallust will succeed however i will not stay and listen to clans, mostly pilgrims, bashes at omni-tek to be dishonorable brainwashed... That is so far from truth you can Ever come.
However i can understand that the propagandamachine from clans want it to sound like that. Perhaps not your fault to have that view without and knowledge beside what pumps out on the propagandamachinery.

Regarding Ergo... Hmmm, i have been thinking about that and it seems that ergo isnt as nice as he have pretended to be... Playing all sides.
A few of my friends where there when it happened that Beast was slained, and i got it all told to me about what number nine told them... So we may expect a new threat soon im sure of.

[_______________Keyth]

Originally posted by Xtraav

I fully understand your view, and agree with you on everything you said. A true neutral will never cease to exist, but there are, similar to the Clans, also rogue neutrals, who made it their goal to favor a side over the other. I do not call this neutral anymore, and if one of these clans attacks Clan (or OT) bases then we reserve the right to strike back. Who would allow others to invade their homes? You would not, and Clan would not either.

There is, it seems to me, a great deal of confusion over what makes a person Neutral, given your quite valid observation that some Neutral organizations act military in ways which are indistinguishable from the more activist groups on either the Clan or Omni-Tek side.

It is a mistake to think that being Neutral necessarily makes one non-militant. The key distinction is one of ideology, not actions. Thus Clan members, regardless of where they fall on the spectrum from peaceful coexistence through outright hostility to OTKR, all share a common wish to see the backside of OTRK. Similarly, Omni-Tek employees, no matter how conciliatory and cooperative with Clans, really believe that OT provides a "better" system and think everyone would be better off in OT.

Neutrals, on the other hand, may be pacifists or militants, but they all share the characteristic of being apolitical. That does not mean that we are disinterested in politics! Many neutrals have dedicated their lives to working with both sides to reach some sort of workable compromise in which all can flourish. What it does mean is that we don't, particularly, care what the nature of the final settlement is so long as it is just and equitable for all, and gives every resident of Rubi-Ka a chance to persue their personal dreams.

Given the lack of a cohesive Neutral ideology, what can explain the attacks by some Neutrals on Clan or OT facilities? Simply put, it is nothing more than an expression of the basic human tendencies to search for both profit and glory. Viewed in this context, one can judge the fighters by standards of ethical military action. Some of them may indeed by guilty of violations of the laws of war, in which case I am fully in favor of their capture and punishment. Some may be failing to truly examine their motivations, and self-examination might bring them to conclude that their beliefs are not so apolitical as they thought. These 'neutrals' ought then to declare themselves openly for the side they have come to favor.

But some Neutrals will attack one side of the other simply because they believe it favors their own search for self-actualization, however they define that nebulous concept. I might slight these Neutrals for breaking their word, or for mistreating prisoners or attacking noncombattants, but I can't fault their attack in and of itself because it is fully in keeping with their evaluation of their own self-interest. This may be a very shortsighted way of managing one's affairs in the Rubi-Ka pressure cooker, or it may simply be an expression of what is most basic in the makeup of all people. Only time will tell.

In the meantime, I will vigorously fight any attempt by either side to convert me to their personal ideology. The ultimate freedom comes in knowing what we believe, and why. Neither Clan nor OTRK has explicated anything, IMO, worth believing in.

[Sallust]

Poor Mrevil, few have been as brainwashed back and forth as you. Some many groups and people have played with your mind, I really feel sorry for you. I know how it has damaged your moral decision making abilities and I do not hold your soul responsible. Though I do hope there is yet a chance for you to learn what you have lost.

Speaking of which, Vayde is back... maybe you owe him a visit?

As for Clans fighting with Omnis we have opposed them as the vast majority of Clans do. An example being the Clan Death brigade which raided neutrals regularly even with Omni help. Their leadership since showed their true colors and moved over to Omni side. The Pilgrims have also always been the most outspoken critics of Sentinel extremism.

As for raids of certain groups not allowing neutrals in, those groups are just a few Clanners who have taken it upon themselves to villify neutrals apart from any Council of Truth decision. The Council's decision is completely different and can be read on their website

The Chamber also issued a followup statement asking all "neutral" forces to join the Clans against these terrorists (Dust Brigade)

Neutral is a lot of groups however and some do not rightly deserve the title. Take the Newland city council for instance which hired Omni mercenaries as guards, has a civillian population that is primarily omni, and is used daily by Omni-Tek troops to raid Clan mines. Certain "neutral" organizations which unapolagetically raid Clans exclusively with Omni help.

The one difference is Omni-Tek. Corporate structure does not grant independence. The Corporation reserves the rights to control every aspect of its citizens lives and its employees operate with corporate lease and acceptance. If Omni HQ ordered the end to hostilities all Omnis would have to cease or face corporate reprisals.

But the corporation is obviously not that concerned.

Perhaps overall our side identification systems need an upgrade to keep track of where each sides citizens faction sympathies really lay based upon how often they attack Clans or Omnis?

[Mrevil]

Originally posted by Sallust
Poor Mrevil, few have been as brainwashed back and forth as you. Some many groups and people have played with your mind, I really feel sorry for you. I know how it has damaged your moral decision making abilities and I do not hold your soul responsible. Though I do hope there is yet a chance for you to learn what you have lost.

Speaking of which, Vayde is back... maybe you owe him a visit?

OOC: Me and ysabelle talked and when this event ran out in sand, decision was made that it was solved with Mordeth taking care of it all.. no side-effects whatsoever. Vayde got as much power as an mouse in a snakepit

There is not much you seems to know weak one about how things fares and how stuff is solved. I have gained far more than both You and Vayde can ever hope for. My knowledge of shadowland and shadowcreatures as well as the masters of shadowland are far greater than yours combined. Thus you are not the one to point out stuff for me.



((OOC again, i like sallustbud.. me calling him "weak one" is only RP))

[kranden]

I myself spent a few weeks in an Omni-Reform facility after i was captured. It was horrible. You were treated as scum and forced to watch propaganda all day long. Meals were poor and the rooms werent so great either. If only you poor brainwashed Omni-Slaves could look at it from the other sides point of view, you would see how evil the Corporation realy is.

((OOC: Good rping MRevil :P your living up to ur name!!))

[Naefen]

Wothless insults from unknowing clanners seems to be the popularity these days. Maybe if you would actually try and stay on topic for once we all could benefit from these discussions.
I am appauled from your discussion techniques. Before we can all really talk about things I suggest you take a long hard look at yourselfes before you once again start bad-mouthing everyone else.

Simple fact is.
Omni Tek have gained a better relation with Neutrals through sheer cooperation. We, as a company, are far more able to work with and deal with the Neutrals than the 1000 minded Clans.