Aimshot , a worthless skill

[Seraphim]

Aimshot is by far the most nerfed skill i ever seen, these changes SUX, cant you FC get 1 higher level char on beta server trying to survive and lvl in reasonable time to test this aimshot? I made a check myself as lvl 104 agent with a Lovemaker ql 176 with lvl 96 soldier ql 150ish nova, he made during fight 2 burst of each 3.3k myself, aimshot 900 hp damage, i should be gratefule? No! His average burst where about 2k my average aimshot was like 1.8k with a range 900-6k, out 10 shots of 100 is really high and neat damage, most of them sux and were BELOW my normal guns crit. I wont tolerate this much longer FC, u have played to long with us and i must say that the latest nerf with conceal makes me wonder, why not delete all agents, please let me convert my char at current lvl to a soldier, i would benefit alot on that.

[_______________Garak]

Well the same could be said for burst, it does absolute **** damage in PvM.. Always less than a regular shot. At least Aimed shot can do some decent dmg in PvM.

And unless you have 7000+ hp.. A soldier could not burst you for 3.3k.. At least not anymore.

[Seraphim]

Eh no my friend, Nova gives outrageous good burst, 3.3k was kinda little top number i can say BUT, it was an average like 1.9k about the same as for th ecrits of singular shots, i have studied this for several hours. So it seems to me that the average might be close and u could say we both nerfed but remember: burst reset faster and can be used during the fight.

[__________NicholaSix]

since the main reason to nurf it was PVP, and PVP damage is now capped.

I think you may be thinking of a stiner my friend. I have a 154 nova, level 105 soldier with a 640 attack rating, and have never got a 2k burst. Crit bursts with that gun are 1.5k. I have a ql145 stiner that hits for 1-2k bursts frequently and 3k crits now and then. Normal crits with the nova are frequently 1048, regular shots range from 3 to that crit. Frequently bursts with the nova do 400 or so. It's not a good burst gun. The soldier has to switch weapons alot to be effective and there are controls on how fast we can do that, and restrictions on doing it at all if we have MK up. Nova has a higher rof so it gets used alot in the grind, about 2.5 sec base, the stiner has an 8sec base, same with the flaspoint.

Agents should be able to do more damage than they do now. A level 110 agent with a ql 200 sr should be able to get 4k crits.

Agents have been messed up in pvm the same way soldiers have been, but heck we don't have roots, dots, false profession nanos that let us be ANY class and use ANY buffs and sheilds such as our MK, and we can't sneak missions. But that's our trade off for more HP.

Anyway I agree, MORE LOVE to the over-nurfed classes.

[_______________Garak]

Originally posted by Fakewin
Eh no my friend, Nova gives outrageous good burst, 3.3k was kinda little top number i can say BUT, it was an average like 1.9k about the same as for th ecrits of singular shots, i have studied this for several hours. So it seems to me that the average might be close and u could say we both nerfed but remember: burst reset faster and can be used during the fight.

Re-read my post.

I said PvM.
PvM does not work the same as PvP, so unless you play a high lvl soldier.. You really wouldn't know now would you?

Lvl 100 soldier max burst = 1000.
Lvl 100 Agent max aimed shot = 5000.
Player vs monster.

Really both skills are equaly nerfed and should be improved.

[______________Cyborg]

The main problem here lies within the definition of the skill.

Aimed Shot: The Aimed Shot is the snipers favourite skill. Using this, he or shee may attack from a hidden position, doing an extra amount of damage to his opponent. It is vital that you are not detected when executing this attack, as then it will count as a normal attack. Dependencies are:Sense, 100%

Burst: The Burst is a special attack that defines how well you fire off a 3 round burst on your SMG, MG or Assault rifle. (Or any other weapon capable of firing a bust, check your weapon). Notice, a successful burst manuver is difficult to perform. A high skill in BOTH the normal attack skill and Burst is required to hit with your Burst Attack. Burst also carries a time penalty on the first attack after burst is carried out. Defined by Agility 50%, Strength 30% and Stamina 20%

Full Auto: The Full Auto skill is used to empty the clip of your weapons. No matter how many rounds you have left in your clip, executing this special attack will fire them all at your target. This is not something done lightly, not only will you have to reload after the rounds have been fired off, but your miss an attack round too. This is a difficult manuver, and a very high skill is required in both Full Auto and the normal attack skill. The skill is defined 60% by pure Strength and 40% on Stamina.

Let's say the Agent uses a QL 100 Stigma and the Soldier uses a QL 100 Nova Flow Mk-IV.

Name Nova Flow - Mk IV
Desc One of the weapons in the well-known plasma series. This one can also be used as a small arms.
QL/NCU Cost 104
Range 20m
Attack Delay 1.5s
Equip Delay 0.5s
Ammo/Energy 20
Recharge Delay 2.5s
Damage 1-191(252)
DefSkills Dodge 100
AtkSkills AssaultRifle
Average normal shot : 96

Name Quality Stigma Rifle
Desc The Stigma Rifle is a well-known rifle, as it is outlawed in most areas of the galaxy. It fires a small stream of poisonous gas, flaring up on impact.
QL/NCU Cost 101
Range 31m
Attack Delay 1s
Equip Delay 2s
Ammo/Energy 125
Recharge Delay 2.5s
Damage 8-173(56)
DefSkills Dodge 100
AtkSkills Rifle

Let's say Skill, Agility, Sense, Strength, and Stamina are equal.
By definition the Burst on average should do 3 rounds of normal shot. = 3 x 96 = 288
By Definition the Full Auto should empty out the rest of the clip, but you would miss an attack round afterwards, thus depending on how much you have left in your clip.
This can range from 96 (1x96) to 1824(19x96).

Burst should be on a normal timer such as Fling, Full Auto should only be done 1~2 during one combat else the gun would overheat.

The Aimed Shot consists of normal damage, possible critical hit and AS bonus. Normal damage will always be the max damage of your weapon. Thus the Aimed shot would be = 173+56+x, a minimum of 223. Aimed shot can only be done once, since one you get the shot off you break concealment.

Now compare apples with apples and oranges with oranges, thus see just how fair it is.

[______Geaty the Gimp]

I agree that somethin needs to be done w/ Aimed Shot, but what does everybody suggest FC do about it? For PvP, up the damage/damage cap? Weaken the burst if it is so dominant? PvM, how about reduce the conceal reqs/make conceal work better? Or for either, how about lower the interval between shots? Just a couple ideas

-Nitrous

[Seraphim]

Thank tou for the reply , actually this sum up what i feel, its obvious soldier clas isnt happy with their own skill, i might add that in my opinion FC havent a clear thought about what happen after lvl 100, perhaps thats the problem itself, the testing is done to much with to low level guys and the real problem turns up while meeting green mobs at lvl 120 and found that the aimshot with 4k om damage where only nicked and now its coming at you, pissed and dangerous. We have the root spells, the FP so agent have larger variety and more fun playstyle but still, agent shall be the BEST solo player perdefinition, and soldier shall be the best multi mob figher and the enforcer/MA is somewhere between these 2 extreme opposites. In my opinion, FC have failed seriously, f

1) You shall not be able to aimshot during fight, it shall initialize the fight. That means the perception vs conceal must be way higher duringfight than it is now.

2) You shall get way larger conceal bonus when targeting the back of the opponent and way better damage bonus. Which forces the agent to really play as agent/assassin style, not running right up front putting rifle to the head and scream upon the mobs face, "Dodge this", no sneak up behind, takes more time, more planning and skill and which will increase the potential of the agent profession.

3) The AS damage shall be WAY higher, the AS bonus shall in my opinion be not related at all to the weapon itself than its a sniper gun, this mean only aimshot skill related , thus u shall be able to use any gun and still get high AS. In my opinion it shall be related not to hp itself rather % of mobs helath u take away, i haveseen this been used in MUDS, you can get in steps 25%,50%,75%,100% all assassination skill vs lvl of Mob. This works perfect from my experience. First that skill isnt abused since the average is about 50%, second 2 assassination cannot be done since see 1).

[_______________Garak]

Cosmik already posted a while back on how they are planing to improve it.

He said it will be changed to regular shot damage + what it does now I think.
So that you always do at least the damage of a regular shot, and no ultra low dmg aimed shots.

[Kinkstaah]

I personally think Aimshot should be a semi rock solid value for damage. Much like a brawl, how you can generally *expect* a certain damage value.

Which is what I think is the "vision"
I hope they do it for sneak attack too

"You hit X for 4 points of SneakAttack damage"

Doh.

[Seraphim]

I have been playing many types of ONLINE games, among them MUDS in cubic and for me this is a 3D mud game system in Sci-Fi. I have like 10 000 hours game play experience, yeah u heard right. I havent been playing much assassins / agent style character, never liked them in fantasy enviroment, more knight style/paladin/mage.

However , i tried that lately and discovered a new way of playing and i have really enjoyed playing all different styles. When i got FC i decided to work out first an lvl 100 agent in assassin style then later go and try engineer just for a change.

In other muds assassin can really do 1 shot 1 kill and they were an exciting part of the game to counter and play against, being assassin was very hard since u must be VERY good to achieve this and certain class have advantage and for example from one traditional mod of Diku mud,

Paladins-Assassin : were a nightmare for both
Mage-Assassin : EVEN
Cleric-Assassin : assassin loose
Figher-Assassin : Figher loose

And so on, u see, this pattern i dont see in this game, this pattern made gaming VERY fun since u knew that against certain types of mobs/players you were on loosing ground. I really loved one Merc variant Mud in which 2 assassin cooperates, and could cirlce backstab , good teaming and fun to play in PvP or another MUD which were outstanding the firstadvanced class system i ever seen where i start basic class, then stepped into 3 different sub classes and one of them were assassin, they could do so called 20%+ auto reduce of health, in different steps up to 90% in one assassnation step, and this is what i mean should be compaired to AS, since we are assassins. Further, in other clases like melee there were specialist atttack like brawl one that reduce automatical 25% of current health, so all clases had their advantage and disadvantage in a VERY nice and balanced way.

How to balance? Easy, fo example aimshot, u let 2 classes have the advantage of for example reduce the effect of AS, like high perception advantage with nano forexample, then assassin have hard time against them and must use other techniques like detain/posion etc. Well just an exmple, i could ramble on for ever but u see there is easy solutions.

Final note, i do know coding so i know perfectly well that some of what i have written might require i bit to much modification of the code, but scrap it, its so lousy written anyway!

[___________Satherial]

I don't have an agent or anything, but a few days ago I got sniped for 5-6k damage 3 times in a row by the same guy (mind you I'm level 60)

[Seraphim]

*cough* Well if u get aimshot for that damage then u ought contact funcom for eventual cheat, i have NEVER ever obtain larger then 3.3k in aimshot in PvP, mind i remind, my char at my level have very good items, this is nonsense! If this however is true then this guy is the most luvky guy in the world, since 3k+ damage PvP i slike 1/10 chance againstlow level mopbs or 1/100 against higher level mobs.

[___________Gunbarrel]

Look no disrespect intended, but does it ever occur to you geniuses that it was a lot to do with people vastly overequipping weapons ie your level 104 with a level 176 weapon that causes a lot of this nerfing in the first place!

I mean when people moan about being nerfed they are comparing what they used to be able to do with what they are now able to do without thinking whether what they could do was too powerful in the first place. It is like those people who go on about not being able to solo reds anymore whilst completely missing the point that they were never supposed to be able to in the first place.

The problem isn't yours the problem is Funcoms. They allowed to a lack of forsight and **** ups with medibays for people to vastly overequip by far too many levels and then had to come up with a way of limiting the amount of destruction an overequipped player could do.

Give yourself a pat on the back for being clever and dedicated enough to have euipped so well but realise that that avenue is now closed. Possibly when the newish caps on people overequipping filter through enough they may relax some of the damage penalties and lower MOB hitpoints etc.

[___________Comador64]

Since aimed shot is our ONLY special attack and since the PvP cap,
FunCom should make our ONLY special attack more powerfull, as it is now, it is a little better, but still pretty much useless...

[______________Symone]

This is starting to piss me off. Please define agent overequipping for me. But first, let me fill you in on what an agent can do, since i'm sure you've never played one.

Before i start, let me point out that implants have nothing to do with overequipping for an agent, or anyone really, as ANY CLASS can use implants, so that's not even an issue with agent overequipping, so stop talking about it (not you specifically, but that's the first thing out of everyone's damn mouth).

Agent buffs:
Rifle Expertise - +20 rifle
Sniper's Bliss, +50 rifle, +15 AS
Feline Grace, +25 agility (about +4 to rifle)
Enhance Senses, +15 sense (about +2 to rifle)
**this is where it gets important to pay attention**
False Prof into trader..
Deprive skills (lesser, then regular one)
Ransack skills (regular, then next level up one)
Skill wrangle

Starting to sink in? I can buff my rifle MYSELF by 200 points total. Now, I don't call that overequipping, because agents were built that way, we have access to ALL nanos and because of that we can buff ourselves up the wazzoo in anything we please. Implants are harder to overequip into than a rifle. Traders can do this also, but you never hear anyone ***** about trader overequipping, which is just as bad a problem since they crit for so damn much with those vektors (but i don't care because i'm not a pvp whore). Funcom will NEVER get rid of overequipping, because at that point, agents will be slaughtered everywhere. People seem to forget (especially when they're MA's or pet classes), that agents can't do missions at all because we can't solo at all (i know you can't either docs ). Anything nerfed in PvP for an agent just gets amplified 100x in PvM, which is just impossible for agents, especially now since blinking and the beating of your heart breaks conceal and an intire mission aggros you.

There are things that absolutely need to get fixed about agents, or in general:

1. Make range an advantage. Give sniper rifles more range than pistols (khemo = 35m, every rifle except dissafiliation < 31m), and allow nanos to cap at 60m (poor NT's, i feel for ya )

2. Make us agents. We can't sneak, shoot from a distance, or infiltrate for crap, which is the description of the agent. Since not one thing about it is actually true, we aren't really agents, more like soldiers with AQUA (why not green!?!) rifle skills.

3. Create missions that utilize our class (and every other class). Missions like recon and spying, or dropping in on a meeting or something.. ANYTHING! Who gives the same missions to soldiers, mages, and spies! I don't see James Bond flying a jet for the Air Force, or in the trenches with the infantry. He's a spy! He spies! We don't! GAARRRRGGHHH!!!

/sigh

Just make agents agents... and stop wiping the boards (i know it's not wiped, just archived, but still).

Originally posted by Gunbarrel
Look no disrespect intended, but does it ever occur to you geniuses that it was a lot to do with people vastly overequipping weapons ie your level 104 with a level 176 weapon that causes a lot of this nerfing in the first place!

I mean when people moan about being nerfed they are comparing what they used to be able to do with what they are now able to do without thinking whether what they could do was too powerful in the first place. It is like those people who go on about not being able to solo reds anymore whilst completely missing the point that they were never supposed to be able to in the first place.

The problem isn't yours the problem is Funcoms. They allowed to a lack of forsight and **** ups with medibays for people to vastly overequip by far too many levels and then had to come up with a way of limiting the amount of destruction an overequipped player could do.

Give yourself a pat on the back for being clever and dedicated enough to have euipped so well but realise that that avenue is now closed. Possibly when the newish caps on people overequipping filter through enough they may relax some of the damage penalties and lower MOB hitpoints etc.

[ExMocker]

I think what people are talking about is not so much the Buffs. But more the Implants. I myself don't have a problem if a player can buff to use a weapon that is 100 over their lvl. But a player who used a bug to use implants over their skill lvl, I feel is wrong.

[______MuscularBeaver]

Ok, now my rifle does 350 HP damage on aimed shot most of the time, and sometimes as high as 700.

Big deal.

I'd be much happier about the change if Funcom hadn't raised the HP of the MOBs in missions. At least I'm assumine that's what Funcom did, because even when I hit for 700 HP it barely nudges the health bar on any MOB that is close to being yellow or higher.

I'd still rather hit for 350 than 39, which is typical of what Aimed Sh*t used to do. But I'm not really seeing any improvement in being able to fight MOBs as a result. If anything, it seems MUCH harder to survive against MOBs now.

[Isgrimnur]

I can put my implants in/out without using that old treatment clinic bug. I can get my rifles on myself.

I am a 112 agent using QL200 guns.

These guns are still crap when I see the damage soldiers/enforcers can do.

I cannot solo a green.

My aimshot doesnt do crap. 50 lvls ago i could take 50% of a MOBs hps with a good aimshot, I should still be able to do that!!!

I shouldn't have GREYs that can kill me. And greens should be easy, I should be able to do 2-3 greens at once with all my uber **** on!

Man I will have a huge hard-on the day they fix the high level game and agents can really solo again.

Canidy

[______________Sathar]

I'm just a humble Neutral NT interested in mostly solo PvM play with no direct connection to most of the issues here, but a few deserve (objective, I hope) comment:

Full Auto: Reading the in game description horrified me, especially as I'm usually on the receiving end . Pressing a button to instantaneously do from 96 to several thousand points of damage is a bit intimidating, even more so because you can do it almost every fight, and usually weight it to do the upper end of the range (keep a full clip). May I respectfully point out a rule mechanic used for years to balance this effect in FtF RPGs -- a lot of systems directly link the efficacy of autofire to the number of rounds fired. Now "rolling" a "to hit" for each round fired may be a little stressful for the poor, overloaded servers, but maybe something simpler like each round after the first decreasing damage by 1-2% cumulative (it's been a while since I've programmed, I assume Recursion hasn't gone by the same wayside as Elegant Memory Management and Hash Codes). Better yet would be some way to tie this into the relative FA skill level. Makes some sense that squeezing ten shots off a SMG feels like being hit 7 or 8 times, while 250 rounds off a hip-fired M60 is like actually connecting 20 or 30 times, not 250.

Aimed Shot: I sympathize that it's really a problem, but I don't know how to fix it. Fixing Conceal seems like an excellent start. Linking it to Skill and not Weapon makes logical sense, but strays pretty far from all other conventions in the game.

Sniper range: Okay, this one does affect me. Since early July range issues have bothered me. Not just melee seeming to have a range between "Line of Sight" and "Near Rubi-Ka Orbit," but also things like pistols with greater range than rifles. Not to mention that the range of ranges is too small compared to movement speeds. This is made more painful by the new 40m cap. Functionally, 90+% of combats are initiated at a range where the target (player or MOb) can return fire without moving (thus making the range differences of weapons/attack modes meaningless), and in the remaining cases it can close to attack before the second shot goes off (making range even less useful). I haven't even looked at the range stat of an attack since August, because it simply doesn't affect the utility of the item/NF. Even previous fixes to range calcs have only helped a little -- maybe I can root a melee MOb and actually get outside it's attack range to fire a single NF, but to root a pistol MOb outside his range but inside mine? Dream on.

Okay, I'm digressing, so I'll let this thread get back where it was going.

Sathar
33 Neutral NT RK-1

PS I scoff derisively at the flagrant over-equippers, but admittedly use DD NFs about 10-15 QLs over my level, so I'm not sure where (if at all) the line should be drawn.