Damage Dumper substitute

[Joannah]

"I saw the message on wtfnet as well, and the person who posted it is highly respected. I dont understand why he havent posted the proofs in this thread though."

Well, i don't understand it either and needless to say i don't find it very funny. I mean, it's not even accusation of in-game scamming which for most is bad enough. It's basically someone broadcasting server-wide "so and so is doing sh*t to your computer that in most countries is a real, criminal offense". If that's because they got outdamaged by a crat dual-wielding leet dolls or because they genuinely believed it to be the case, i don't really care. Some kind of private contact to sort out the facts before they brand me in public the lowest scum on earth would've been nice. Some sort of clear up and/or apology after would've been nice, too. With the lack of either, if i had the high respect for the person in question --whoever they are-- ... i think it'd be pretty much gone now.

"Oh and posting source doesnt really matter. Even if the compiled version is as large as the AOParser is now, keylogger code could get replaced by dummie code before the source was posted, so the executables end up in the same size. Again, I dont think this program does this, I am just thinking out loud..."

Fair enough; i wasn't thinking of it when i was uploading the source (tbh was too shocked to think much at all) but from the paranoid point of view every sort of evidence can be of course manipulated. In that light the real benefit of having the sources available is, one can check the files, throw them in the compiler and have their own version of the program they can trust to be 'safe'.

[Kuro]

Aside from the fact that I trust Joannah implicitly, I'm hardly a slouch when it comes to the security of my systems. I've run pretty much every version of AOParser since it came out and not once has it twigged my systems' defenses.

The 'highly respected' individual that posted this on wtfnet is a complete twip to make an accusation like this with no offering of evidences and no attempt to contact her. 'Highly Respected' my ass

Use it or don't use it. That's your choice to make, same as when you use Clicksaver or AO Shoplifter (which by hooking into AO has greater spying potential than AOParser which simply reads the logfiles). But end this horsecrap of a discussion, especially in public.

[Biochemyst]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


The 'highly respected' individual that posted this on wtfnet is a complete twip to make an accusation like this with no offering of evidences and no attempt to contact her. 'Highly Respected' my ass

Seems to me you're jumping the gun way too early and way too inappropriately in making this kind of judgment. The individual who sent out the warning happens to be one of the leaders of my org, and I don't think she reads the forums obsessively. I've alerted her to this issue; we'll see if she wants to take the time to address it.

HOWEVER, what I recall going on over orgchat was something along the lines that she had found a keylogger in her system doing a scan, and she thought it might be related to the AOParser she had dl'ed. She asked others in the org to check it out, and asked others via /tell to check it out. One of them sent the word out over the wtfnet bot. What should she have done instead? Just kept quiet?

Isn't it better that we got some warning, then people went and checked out AOParser, and declared it clean? Perhaps it was something else in her system; perhaps it was another download. The point is that for someone to sound an alert -- not by ACCUSING anyone or POSTING irresponsibly on a forum, but via orgchat and private tells, to verify the problem -- should be thanked for bringing up the issue at all. She could have just cleaned her system and said nothing to anyone.

It's good that others have cleared AOParser of any problems; I feel better knowning that people with a far more secure setup than mine have examined it and cleared it. This sort of attacks and flaming is really quite out of line.

-g

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Grenfell

Seems to me you're jumping the gun way too early and way too inappropriately in making this kind of judgment. The individual who sent out the warning happens to be one of the leaders of my org, and I don't think she reads the forums obsessively. I've alerted her to this issue; we'll see if she wants to take the time to address it.

HOWEVER, what I recall going on over orgchat was something along the lines that she had found a keylogger in her system doing a scan, and she thought it might be related to the AOParser she had dl'ed. She asked others in the org to check it out, and asked others via /tell to check it out. One of them sent the word out over the wtfnet bot. What should she have done instead? Just kept quiet?

Isn't it better that we got some warning, then people went and checked out AOParser, and declared it clean? Perhaps it was something else in her system; perhaps it was another download. The point is that for someone to sound an alert -- not by ACCUSING anyone or POSTING irresponsibly on a forum, but via orgchat and private tells, to verify the problem -- should be thanked for bringing up the issue at all. She could have just cleaned her system and said nothing to anyone.

It's good that others have cleared AOParser of any problems; I feel better knowning that people with a far more secure setup than mine have examined it and cleared it. This sort of attacks and flaming is really quite out of line.

-g

Guilty until proven innocent, eh? I really love that line of thought. I'm hardly jumping the gun as far as I'm concerned. I've got evidence of twippage. Where's the evidence that AOParser was the cause before the word went out on wtfnet?

What could have and prolly should have been done is contact Funcom about the possibility of a security breach through a highly popular program. Based on past experience, Funcom would have taken such a concern very seriously, investigated it very quickly and handled it with far more discretion than doing the equivalent of publically questioning the integrity of someone who was only guilty of attempting to help the community.

I'll retract my comments when the people that caused this derailment do something that earn my respect:

Apologize

[Merung]

My problem with the wtfnet spam that was sent out was not that it alerted us to a *possible* keylogger, but that it said (and Im paraphrasing here, it was a couple days ago) *DELETE AOParser NOW. It has a keylogger in it!* it didnt say it *may* have a keylogger, it didnt say there might be evidence of that, but it was an absolute statement.

With what you said was the topic in org chat and in tells was a possibility of malicious code.

That is where I see the issue, absolute statement vs. the possibility.

[Aqua]

Originally posted by Kuroshio

Guilty until proven innocent, eh? I really love that line of thought. I'm hardly jumping the gun as far as I'm concerned. I've got evidence of twippage. Where's the evidence that AOParser was the cause before the word went out on wtfnet?

Apologize

Actually it was more like 2 people in guild chat had software that detected some kind of key logger and the only new thing that was installed was AOParser, so they asked others to test their copies and someone mentioned it to another person outside the guild and that person did the wtf message.

BTW I scanned my version with everything under the sun I could think of and couldnt find anything wrong with it, so it was either a false read from their software (happens quite a bit actually) or they got it from some place that attached a logger to it and repackaged it. In any event its still on my computer and works well, seems a lot more stable they others have said maybe their log files got to big..

[Warhead]

Originally posted by Kuroshio

Based on past experience, Funcom would have taken such a concern very seriously, investigated it very quickly and handled it with far more discretion than doing the equivalent of publically questioning the integrity of someone who was only guilty of attempting to help the community.

Why would Funcom investigate anything? They don't support any third party software.

What is that past experience you speak of? All I ever heard was 'We don't support third party software'.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Ganiscol


Why would Funcom investigate anything? They don't support any third party software.

What is that past experience you speak of? All I ever heard was 'We don't support third party software'.

Funcom has previously posted warnings on both the forums and in the login screen about confirmed programs that breach security. They don't support 3rd party programs but they also don't want the customer support issues caused by break in either.

[Biochemyst]

Originally posted by Aqua


Actually it was more like 2 people in guild chat had software that detected some kind of key logger and the only new thing that was installed was AOParser, so they asked others to test their copies and someone mentioned it to another person outside the guild and that person did the wtf message.

Thank you for verifying my recollection.

Again, Kuroshio, I think you were way hasty in jumping all over the person who sounded the initial warning. I don't recall any sort of absolute statement that was made by that person.

I can't recall who sent out the wtfnet message, or what that message said, but there was no 'public questioning' of anything.

Neither myself, nor anyone I know of, questioned Joannah's work, intent, motivation, or any such thing. All of us appreciate the great work (s)he has done for the community. Again, the warning was as Kappen described it -- a private orgchat that brought up something odd, and requests to test/scan.

So if anyone owes anyone an apology here, seems to me it ought to be you, for jumping the gun with your reckless condemnation.

-g

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Grenfell


Thank you for verifying my recollection.

Again, Kuroshio, I think you were way hasty in jumping all over the person who sounded the initial warning. I don't recall any sort of absolute statement that was made by that person.

I can't recall who sent out the wtfnet message, or what that message said, but there was no 'public questioning' of anything.

Neither myself, nor anyone I know of, questioned Joannah's work, intent, motivation, or any such thing. All of us appreciate the great work (s)he has done for the community. Again, the warning was as Kappen described it -- a private orgchat that brought up something odd, and requests to test/scan.

So if anyone owes anyone an apology here, seems to me it ought to be you, for jumping the gun with your reckless condemnation.

-g

Originally posted by Nifertu
Is this the parser with hidden keystroke logger?

AOparser was the name afaik.. And this is AOparser.. so I think it is.

I saw the message on wtfnet as well, and the person who posted it is highly respected. I dont understand why he havent posted the proofs in this thread though.

Are the results of something they started. I'd not suggest waiting for an apology from me. The sun will go cold before that happens.

[Aqua]

So if your account was hacked and funcom closed it how happy would you be that you found out some people suspected it had a keylogger but didnt mention it because they wernt sure yet? its always a good idea to error on the side of safety and security.

Again the people who mentioned it wernt the same ones that did the wtf annoucement they asked for others to see if they had the same things going on.

[Joannah]

Meh; Grenfell, Aqua, it sounds like there's some mix up going on.

Like originally stated, i had problem with someone making a server-wide announcement about my program and then not having guts to address the issue they caused. Whoever that person happens to be. (supposedly someone highly respected)

To which you guys pop up stating, in order:

* that the person who sent out that public info is one of leaders of your org
* that it was actually discussion in your org chat, and it was one of people from there who made the public announcement
* that the person who made the public announcement was someone not from your guild, but completely different person

which, if correct, means you have absolutely no reason to get all offended at Kuro's original message which concerned:

"The 'highly respected' individual that posted this on wtfnet"

thus, can you drop it? If it's no one from your guild that sent out the message, you have no reason to get involved. I'd rather the thread to stay focused on technical aspects/problems, if possible...

[Timelapse]

this is getting a bit long and out of hand now. so, we'll wrap this one up now.

note; i'll let the original author repost it, maybe, if s/he PMs me.