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Thread: Neutrals beware, the CoT is coming for you

  1. #61
    Don't worry, Ms. Gorslin. Assembly has no intention of swaying due to what's hot or not. Our choice is our own, not that of popular demand. We affiliate with the Sentinels and will continue to do so until the members vote differently, not because "someone doesn't like us".

  2. #62
    Hey now...I drive a kodiac...

    First of all, only the higher ranking Sentinels attack Neutrals so they are far from being a primary target to them.

    The sentinels do not attack neutral grounds either. The higher ranking Sentinals do not like Neutrals in their teritory. (This is much different than beating your wife)
    I myself never said that i like neutrals, i know some neutrals who are very nice and have helped me out. They are neutrals, they have nothing to do with this conflict between Clans and Omni-Tek. Neither did i say that i like the Sentinels.

    The CoT is based on making desicions laid out before the representatives of the Clans. Those decisions will be voted on by members of the clan and those votes will be the decision of the Clan. With 20 clans there will be 20 votes. From those votes comes the decision made by the CoT.

    If the Sentinels were ever to turn on any Clan wich is member of the CoT and has voted on the sentinels. that Clan can easily withdraw their vote on the Sentinels and place it one of the other 9 bigger Clans.

    Im sorry for repeating myself in some matters.

    This is just the begining. Thoughts are different as noone knows perfectly well what the Path is that the 9 bigger clans really wish to take.

    But whatever happens, the Clans will always be able to have vote in it. And the decision will always be based on what the Majority of the Clans think. Not what one person wants....not what one clan or one of the bigger clans want...but what the majority of the clans want.

    You should open your com-links and do a search for United Nations or Democracy. I will bet you will find some nice literature to inform you how this works.

  3. #63
    Demonize ME if you will. I am not speaking on my behalf unless otherwise stated. Resorting to sarcasm in the face of brutal honesty will never come as a surprise to me. Far be it from me to discuss your affiliation, though. I am respectfully declining to announce my personal opinion on the Knights because we are all clanners, first and foremost...in our eyes, affiliation comes second. Forgive me for being a Clanner who supports her guild and her affiliation in their action against Omni-Tek.

    Cyani,

    I see your side of it and I do honestly expect your hesitation in agreeing with our decision. We always have been and will be a neutral friendly guild, regardless of the action against Omni-Tek we support. The very fact that i'm talking to you at all should tell you something, yet this will go unrealized until it is pointed out. I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but again, First Light will support our stance with action and not words. I refer you to our original post (and the following 4 posts our stance appeared in) and Enrimas words, as she is one of our representatives in the council. My work is to vindicate ourselves from wrongful accusation, to shed light on the motives of First Light and like it was so eloquently put (and my favorite part), to call a spade a spade.

    Warmest Regards,

    Taren "Astera" Gorslin

  4. #64
    I'll let the matter rest and see what happens. I've said my peace and voiced my displeasure at Silverstone's Clan and those who support him for over a year now. The only thing that will make me change my mind about him is he changes his mind about the neutrals being the enemy. Perhaps even I will support him then....though I wouldn't count on it.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  5. #65
    Originally posted by Astera
    I did mix some things around for everyone to see the propaganda that you do preach, sir. I think this makes more sense. Propaganda is to voice an idea to sway to your point of view but then make the people feel good about it. While i'm not the best, I can only speak from truth, I do see through your words also.
    Trying to improve relations between Omni/Clan as a means to search for a peaceful resolution is considered to be propaganda!?! I am at a loss for words except that I sincerely hope you find what you are looking for in that thing you call 'war'. You and the Council of Truth you are a part of have greatly dissappionted me.

    Going against the advice of my co-workers and instincts I have been foolish to think that the Council of Truth was a place for enlightened leaders interested in building a prosperous future for the citizens of Rubi-Ka.
    Charles 'Kithrak' Houston - Equipment
    Administrator, Omni-Admin
    Bringing the politics of Rubi-Ka to life!

    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster....when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..." -Friedrich Nietzsche-

    "By denying support to the possibility of peace, the Council of Truth is guranteeing an outcome of war."-Administrator Houston-

  6. #66
    Oh my dear Kithrak...

    I find it completely laughable that you are looking for a diplomatic solution. How many mine attacks has Midnight Reveries been a part of or led in these past months?

    Theres the peaceful solution, well before the Sentinels gained support, well before the CoT had its first official meeting. When you leave MR, please drop me a line to discuss it. At that time, you will have a leg to stand on.

    Regards,

    Taren "Astera" Gorslin

  7. #67
    To all those whom I may have offended for their Clan's support of the Sentinels:

    Okay, I appreciate you might find it hard to take what I say at face value. I have been and shall always remain a vocal critic of Clan militancy. But then I have been equally critical of Omni militancy, making my voice heard against the likes of Chimera, OTSEC and The Black Hand. I’ve also been long time advocate of a reformation of the Council of Truth. It’s all there in the Forums if you care to check.

    But even if you choose to disregard what I have to say, you can’t fail to notice that on this very thread there are Neutrals and fellow Clanners echoing my very same feelings of dismay and outrage. This is because what the Sentinels stand for is something abhorrent to all civilized people regardless of faction.

    Now clearly in a public forum such as this, you really have no option but stand your ground. Pride and loyalty to your Clan demands nothing less. But perhaps in your own time and in private might want to reflect on some of the issues raised here and how this ill-advised decision reflects on your Clan.

    Savoy
    Last edited by Savoy; Apr 27th, 2004 at 01:28:03.
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  8. #68
    Originally posted by Savoy
    But even if you choose to disregard what I have to say, you can’t fail to notice that on this very thread there are Neutrals and fellow Clanners echoing my very same feelings of dismay and outrage.
    Again...I should care because...? Other clans have chosen to affiliate with other than the Sentinels. My clan has made its choice. What other people, clans or neutral, think about it is really not important to me. I care for my members. My responsibility lies with them first and foremost, and not with other clanners.

    I'm not campaigning for a "Miss Popularity" contest. As for what the collective employees of Omni-Tek feels...does the phrase "like flying rollerrats" mean anything to you? I don't care. Go pursuit someone else. Clean up the act in your own lines before you start bantering on what the clans do. You can start with that plague of demented people, thinking they are some kind of vampires. Oh and when you're done with that, travel to Upper Stret East bank, to a place called Safe Haventown. Find a woman called Delphine Sabbatt there and talk to her. After that, you might want to focus your energy elsewhere.

    I really don't care to discuss this anymore, as I don't have anything I need to defend, to anyone other than the people working for me. So if you're done now, I have work to do.

  9. #69
    Originally posted by Astera
    Oh my dear Kithrak...

    I find it completely laughable that you are looking for a diplomatic solution. How many mine attacks has Midnight Reveries been a part of or led in these past months?

    Theres the peaceful solution, well before the Sentinels gained support, well before the CoT had its first official meeting. When you leave MR, please drop me a line to discuss it. At that time, you will have a leg to stand on.

    Regards,

    Taren "Astera" Gorslin
    Laughable? I refer you to my long history of service working towars peace and the betterment for Rubi-Ka's citizens in general.

    As for my posting to Midnight Reveries, I have been attatched as an Omni-Admin representative during an investigation into an incident where the main computer core of Red Tape have been wiped by corporate saboteurs. After the investigation, there wasn't a Red Tape left to return to and my posting has become long term. Red Tape was one of the most open organizations within Omni-Tek with regards to the Clans. Yet before its end, the Clans seem to have forgotten that and 'attacked' our home and tower base in 4-Holes.

    You are as strongheaded as you are foolish. If you have no interest in a peaceful solution as your support of the Sentinels have shown, stop wasting my time and resources!
    Charles 'Kithrak' Houston - Equipment
    Administrator, Omni-Admin
    Bringing the politics of Rubi-Ka to life!

    "He who fights with monsters should look to it that he himself does not become a monster....when you gaze long into the abyss the abyss also gazes into you..." -Friedrich Nietzsche-

    "By denying support to the possibility of peace, the Council of Truth is guranteeing an outcome of war."-Administrator Houston-

  10. #70
    I think you need a vacation you look a little pale Kithrak... maybe from hiding in that bunker and figuring out a way to seem useful where the beauraucratic process just wieghs things down?
    *hands Kithrak a towel and some swimming trunks* pick somewhere sunny, a present from the clans.
    "A Glimmering wind came
    down from the North. It’s
    sting was without pain, but
    death came no less brutal;
    Thier minds beyond recovery - clouded by conceit and lies."

  11. #71
    Call it what you want, Sir. The day you leave is the day your useless bantering will hold merit in my eyes.

    Until then,

    Taren "Astera" Gorslin

  12. #72

    Thumbs down

    Oh will wonders never cease? For all the rhetoric lambasting Omni propaganda, I see just as much propaganda being spewed forth from the mouths of clanners. Instead of B.S. like "Omni-tek is your friend," we are rewarded with, "Oh, we love our neutral friends and respect their opinions," while seeing these same individuals defend those who choose to actively participate in the willful murder of neutrals. Arguing the tired "Oh the damn neut had it coming for daring to visit Tir" line is the same as claiming the **** victim was asking for it by dressing provacatively.

    Okay, I can understand flat-out lying to neutrals. We're different. We aren't loyal members of the clans. We're not deserving of any such niceties as honesty. I may not agree with it, but I can understand it. However, what I find morally reprehensible is pulling out the propaganda card on your fellow clan-mates. To accuse any other clanner who chooses to disagree with you of being "blinded by propaganda" is itself propaganda. Marginalizing those who have views contrary to yours is pretty much as non-democratic as one can get. It's a short leap to go from marginalization of others for their voiced opinions to full-blown suppression of the others' voice.

    And people wonder why neutrals don't take sides? Both sides have a lot of good people at the lower levels but those in power are interested only in one thing: to keep the power they have and accumulate more by taking it away from the proletariat. Trying to hide that lust for power in the flowery words of democracy and friendship is just downright dishonest.
    Last edited by mondobizarro; Apr 27th, 2004 at 05:19:55.
    The Independent Rubi-kans, making Neutrality a legitimate option in the face of adversity since 29475!

    Rene "Mondobizarro" Renetti, Sisyphean Spokesperson for the Opposition of Oppression

    Explorer 66% Socializer 60% Achiever 46% Killer 26%, Bartle Test

  13. #73
    Originally posted by Savoy
    This is because what the Sentinels stand for is something abhorrent to all civilized people regardless of faction.
    I don't normally agree with Omnis politically, but this is exactly how I feel. Anyone who supports Silverstone and the Sentinels is my enemy as much as the most militant OT departments or "neutral" terrorists like the NLF. I was shocked--completely and utterly shocked--when I heard how the vote turned out. It is morally repugnant to me that anyone, regardless of their faction or opinion on the war (or whatever you want to call it), could support the Sentinels after what they've done the last two years.

  14. #74
    ((I'm not shocked that the Sentinels received so much support, they are the most well known Clan amongst the NPC guilds, and people will always stick with what they know. Why go with something thats unsure, or something that you've never seen. I myself have never met anyone from the Vanguards or Terra Firma and because I have no physical representation of them to consort with I would not choose them. Familiarity is what most people choose, and this was an example of human nature. Definately not saying that I agree with it, but I understand atleast why it happened.))

    Benjamin "Fixerben" Bacarella - L212 AL10
    Haywood "Brawlking" Jablomy - L220 AL21

  15. #75
    *Phaergus leans back from his comm with a heavy sigh, scratching his unshaven chin in thought. With an deep intake of breath, he begins to type.*

    I am not a political man by any large stretch, nor am I one to seek out the wages of war unless in an abject state of necessity. I will defend the Clans to the death against any actively aggressive enemy without hesitation. But, at the end of the day, I am but a humble citizen of Rubi-ka trying to make my way like the rest of the vast majority of its occupants be they Omni, Neutral or Clan. I leave the politics to the politicos. I am, however, a principled man.

    You have never seen my words before but I assure you I have followed many of yours quite actively. And at last, I feel moved to speak out. And I do not write on behalf of First Light, do not ascribe my words or opinions to others please, I write for myself as a free man.

    The Council of Truth was a much heralded and highly anticipated evolution in the Clan movement. In my mind, (and I stress the word "my", it could be that I am wistfully deluded that the notion of organized democracy has its place in Clan territory) it was to be a means by which we could harness our collective need and engender coordinated action. A glorious noble notion.

    But all I have seen since its inauguation is division. Division, mistrust, a need to mute the voices of the masses in favor of timely efficient process, the derision of one another's opinion, the slandering of individuals whose personal opinon may indeed have been overcome by a democratic process. This...from Clan. This...from people with whom I have fought side by side with and for. This...from close kin. This...from members of the Council itself.
    And I am deeply saddened to see members of my former family declare me an enemy for my views.

    I am ashamed and concerned.

    In this I must side with Szentasha. The strength of democracy comes from open debate. The power of unity comes from common understanding if not total agreement. Understanding can only be reached through exchange. Even heated exchange. Informed democratic process determines action. That is how First Light (not Lyricia, god bless her) came to its decision to support the Sentinels and a decision I now stand by because I UNDERSTAND why. And, I am making a leap here, but I suspect the failure to partipate in such a process may in fact be why UotR is not a member of the CoT today (if I am reading that right).

    If we cannot manage understanding and worse, if we refuse to, then who anyone aligned with is an utterly moot point.

    I apologize for my lengthy diabtribe and beg your patience.

    As ever your humble patriot,

    Christopher "Phaergus" Clyburn
    Trader, Proud Member of First Light
    Last edited by Phaergus; Apr 27th, 2004 at 15:35:03.

  16. #76
    Debate is healthy. Debate is good. Anyone who did not forsee this coming had blinders on. You try to sway my opinion, I try to sway yours. That's the way politics have work since time began.

    I don't see much in the way of any member Clan saying they refused to work with others of a different political mindset. I have had strong views on the Sents for ages....you would certainly think me an imposter if I was silent about it. Still, I am curious as to how it came about that so many that previously derided the Sents all of a sudden champion them.

    In any case, as I said, I will back off on my verbal attacks against those that choose to follow Mr. Silverstone and watch how things play out. I welcome the people that used to think poorly of the Sents to tell me why they had a change of heart all of a sudden. Yes, I'd welcome that. I'd also like to find out why they consider Neutrals a bigger threat as Silverstone does. Persuade me why they are. I'd like to hear it.
    -Finalizer Vixentrox-
    Former President and Founder,
    -Whisper's Edge-
    Former Member of the Atlantean CoT Clerical Staff

    Socializer 73% Killer 53% Explorer 53% Achiever 20%

    Kissysuzuki -
    WTB small enough brain and lack of imagination to be able to sit and solo hecklers for 5 days straight.

  17. #77
    Well, we are in agreement there Vix. Responsible debate is good. I will leave it to my Clan's trusted representatives to take on that task on behalf of First Light in the appropriate forum for debate and I am firm in my belief that they will do so in an intelligent and open-minded fashion. Having paid our dues and cast our vote, I do know that at least First Light can speak, if not be heard.

    From a personal perspective, I believe firmly that the CoT's decision (including the vote of my own Clan I might add) to close its doors once more is tantamount to a formal motion to exclude the voice of others hence the debate is over before any has begun. Given what I understand about some of the disorderliness of the first meeting, I understand the need for order within process and to this I attribute the overall decision. Yet, I see little in the posted rules of the CoT's machinations that would even allow for a structured forum in which "outsiders" could contribute broadly and openly (other than the age-old harbinger of policital corruption called "lobbying", to steal an Old Earth term).

    Perhaps, I am not knowledgeable enough in the inner workings to understand any different and, given the closed proceedings, will likely never find out. I can only hope that the CoT is still working out their formalized structures and that the solicitation of input from allies who may not be dues-paying members becomes viewed as a valued asset.

    Your comment about not having seen "any member Clan saying they refused to work with others of a different political mindset", is technically true. No Clan has put forth a addendum to the their Charter that I am aware of but there has been strong commentary by individuals (please refer to Autumnleaves' earlier post as an example, Fionnghal's in another discussion as another) that might lead one to suspect that to be informally true. Perhaps some lessons in diplomacy from the resident expert?

    Respectfully,

    Christopher "Phaergus" Clyburn
    Trader, Proud Member of First Light

  18. #78
    Ms. Flowers,

    I would refer you to our original post, later posts and Enrimas post to find the answers you are looking for. I'm not certain how many more times it can be said.

    It is not my place to persuade you as you are your own person and obviously have formed your own opinions regardless of how many times I have stated it. If the previous posts aren't enough, then I am truly sorry...there is little left I can do.

    Regards,

    Taren "Astera" Gorslin
    First Light

  19. #79
    I don't speak for all of Whisper's Edge. As an individual, I will refuse to work with others of a different political mindset (those who belong to a Clan that thinks terrorists, warmongers, and criminals are model leaders). I cannot, in good conscience, support the Sentinels, even indirectly.
    Last edited by Autumnleaves; Apr 27th, 2004 at 19:15:00.

  20. #80
    You chose to support a clan that shoots neutrals on sight, and whose leadership has referred to neutrals as being worse than Omni-Tek itself. You knew what you were doing. What did you think was going to happen when you affiliated with the Sentinels? You've made your bed, now sleep in it. It's not like you weren't aware ahead of time that this would be a controversial move for your clan. Personally I'm surprised you're not seeing more public criticism than you are.
    Delia "Aerinyi" Jett
    General of Whisper's Edge
    Atlantean

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