Static Dungeon Spawn Time Discussion

[gnuman]

Originally posted by Nalissa
And to the people that say Camelot is unfair because it is in a clan town:

Pfftt..

To players of lvl 130+ the few guards that surround Camelot are a joke to kill. Furthermore, you dont have to kill them, you just fly your jet on in and ignore the 1 or 2 Veteran Knights in between you and the castle. Additionally, they are MELEE knights. They can't even touch you in a yalm if you are clever enough to sit more than 15 feet off the ground.

ANy player with a yalm can get into camelot with 0 effort.

Noer really makes me laugh with his PR campaign comments. He would love to see a dungeon placed in Omni HQ. Why? Because the Omni-Pol Supremes have ranged weapons. Because there are LOTS of them. because they hit for 2-3 times as much damage as the Veteran knights do.

Come on Noer. Don't you think you have enough advantage with the primary PvP zone being full of guards you can abuse as defense/pull over to break 15 second protection? You might even brush those grey guards off as a non-issue, but they instant spawn. You have a limitless army of greys on your side as it is. In a PvP field no less!

You know why you guys can't get the Dragon? Because you are too busy backstabbing each other to form a coalition of more than 40-50 people. THe problem with omni is lack of leadership. You guys need a Phillip Ross. No wait - he's fictional. You need a Wolfe. You need a Julius Ceaser. Heck, what you really need is to let some lvl 100 guy with leadership ability take your spot.

Start treating all omni as your friends and you might just have a chance to stop the united Clan front. otherwise, you're going to need a big diaper to cover up the red marks from the spankings you've been getting. Of course.. On the other hand i'm guessing you have a massive supply..

There is a big difference on having a cellscanner next to the place or you have to use the grid and run by guards to get there. Same thing in 2ho, just that its Omnis who have the advantage. There is just the little difference that Omni have no benefits whatsoever of controlling 2ho.
And the times I see guards interferring in 2ho is when people are so stupid to drag them from whompas. It happens now and then and really annoying. But not really that often.

[_______________Chill]

After reading all the previous posts I must say that I'm happy to be on RK-2, we don't have this camping problem and on several occasions clan and omni players have teamed together to kill the tarasque (we also had pvp battles there but all in a good mood).

Anyway, here are my thoughts about camping:
1. Make unique monsters respawn as fast as regular ones and lower their chance to drop something but at least each time we kill them it will be exciting and we'll pray for a lucky drop. 10000 times better than a sure drop every 24 hours.
2. A lvl 200+ boss in team missions should have a chance to drop a rare item from the tarasque for example.
3. The best items should be made by players with trade skills from components dropped by common mobs (I like the concept of the queen egg).
4. Corona armor in the smugglers den is a good example of how decent rare loot should be found. Actually nerfing the biotech with a fast respawn time was a good thing, now moving to kill all the npc is a lot less boring than it used to be when we stayed in one room killing the same mob over and over.
5. Put more quests like the Trash king, they are my favorite way of getting cool stuff. But please fix Alvin/Dodga by making them never disappear, it's another form (and the worst in fact) of camping.
6. Put boss mobs in solo missions too for those who don't want or can't team all the time. Not all solo missions should have one, add a new option while rolling a mission to deicde if we want a boss or not in it.

Do everything I mention, add more content and fix all the bugs then you can be sure I won't quit AO for SWG when it's released.

[alphane]

sorry if it has already been suggested early in this post, here after is my point of view:

We all knows those special mobs which drop special items and nodrop items we all want to get. some of them are of a low interest, "Georges" the reet , "Ding" the leet in greater tir and tir county for example.
Those one are often available but for all others we could never even see because of heavy camping make us frustrated and upset against the uber guild which camp the donjons and locations where they spawn. Allways the same location.
I suggest random mobs with random loot (special unique or nodrop items) of different QL and even sometimes no item at all to improve chance to have something very special.
They could spawn randomly in playfields but with only one rule, not to spawn in the same playfield from one time to an other and with just enough information about them to be able to recognize their special status among the other mobs.
This could resolve the camping and give a chance to any player of any lvl to get special/unique/nodrop items.
This could be done probably with little code and scripting routines if mobs AI works this way.
The other benefit of random mob would be to empty cities , reduce lag as more players would be interested to go back to hunt rather than play those boring "allways the same" missions.

[assassimon]

Originally posted by Noer


There is a big difference on having a cellscanner next to the place or you have to use the grid and run by guards to get there. Same thing in 2ho, just that its Omnis who have the advantage. There is just the little difference that Omni have no benefits whatsoever of controlling 2ho.
And the times I see guards interferring in 2ho is when people are so stupid to drag them from whompas. It happens now and then and really annoying. But not really that often.

Can't really see how this can be the same, you have no guards to fight inside castle only then running from grid to castle, that takes like 10 sec.

In 2ho the guards auto attack us, they mess with grace period, they make us autoattack back so we can't always attack the right target, our pets go after the guards if we don't spam them to stay behind.

How can this be the same as running for 10 sec with afew guards around?

[bigswede]

The current situation with timed spawns and people camping the bossrooms is keeping me from even trying to get the cratsuit for example. The dungeon itself is fun to fight through, but after you fought your way up to the foremans office you allways find someone there camping him, usually higlevelers who get the suit form for an alt or a guildmate. I haven't got the time to log in every three hours to see if the foreman is there. I haven't got lvl200 buddies who wants to come camp for me.

So, unless I get lucky and see someone selling that form I'll never see a cratsuit as long as I play the game. Wich ofcourse makes it somewhat boring, since it's an item made for my profession and something I think would look cool on my char.

So please, change it so that I some day may take a trip there and just have fun to the end, without having to turn back at the last door.

[______________Demios]

Azzazimon.

We feel it the most when we fight you guys in there.

If we have to go from trade to Camelot it takes us about 5 min.
For you it takes 30s.

This 4min 30 makes alot of difference when youre in a heavy PvP fight. Basicly clan will always win any war of attricion in Camelot.

Thats what the complaint was about.

Regards

Demi

[Kinkstaah]

Did you not understand?

Tar is dying too much. Rare items arent as rare as they are envisioned to be.

And you expect FC to hand all these unique, rare, special items.. on a platter?

Hello???

[Kinkstaah]

Originally posted by Demios
Azzazimon.

We feel it the most when we fight you guys in there.

If we have to go from trade to Camelot it takes us about 5 min.
For you it takes 30s.

This 4min 30 makes alot of difference when youre in a heavy PvP fight. Basicly clan will always win any war of attricion in Camelot.

Thats what the complaint was about.

Regards

Demi

Um, it takes identical periods of time.
Grid. Goto Camelot Exit.
You are there.

[____________Greystar]

I said it so many times, and I am proven right again and again.

It does not matter what FC says. They said Camping is bad and will be reduced.

Of course a lie, they increased spawn in Smugglers Den with the smugglers, now they do the same with Tarasque and don't even stop the spawn blocking at the same time.

No one likes camping, except some of those who have all items they want already and want to be elite and look down on the ones with no chance of getting them.

We told you hundreds of times we do not like camping, you answered many times that you realize we do not like camping, you said you will reduce camping, hell, when AO started you already said there will be no camping in AO, but it is only lies again and again, proven once more by this change.

You say something and then do the exact opposite.

I have no idea how such behavior can occur again and again in a company, actually I do not know any company where the representatives say something to their customers and then do the exact opposite of it. You are at least unique in that area, just like your unique items


STOP THE CAMPING, SPAWN UNIQUE MOBS MORE OFTEN !

[______________Kabral]

hehe, start a thread asking a question then ignore it
Customer service at its best

[______________Lilbob]

2 simple words:
CAMPING SUCKS

the rarer it is the more drastic measures people well do to get it, when they do get it (shades of lucibration for instance) they will sell them for insane amounts

people ruckus over MKI and MKII in SD due to the loot being so rare, they try to outdamage each other and push the other teams out, if the MKI and II dropped like for instance, every smuggler has a piece like in the borg dungeon, less time would be spent there, and more people would then be given a chance.

The Dragon IMO has too much of the rare loot , how many items does he have?

the biggest pain is due to it being in a 25% zone and it having stupid amounts of rare loot and being camped 24/7 most neutrals and omnis dont get a look in esp neutrals

you trying to force them to pick sides?

a good question is why is a coat with a req of level 100 sitting on a level 300 mob?

inbalancing at its very best.

Stop acting so one sided all the time and give others a chance.

in otherwords....
DROP CAMPING NOBODY WANTS IT!

[Caloss2]

Some very lucid and well thought out posts here I'm glad to say, I even agree with Nikki this time round, FC is sadley lacking in content, no wonder nikki is getting bored, at lvl134, with almost all the items I wanted from the unique list already in my possesion, custom reet, the whole line in pit lizerd nano's etc, what's next? I'm starting to feel that boerdom myself, gawd knows what it's like for nikki or any player that has made their way to that lvl.

It's an interesting point that nikki made that storms actions are breaking up omni guilds. I made a little alt in omni tec yesterday, and had a (very slow) walk around, almost everywhere was deserted, and ok OT cities are larger than any clan ones, but I saw less that 200 players in about a one hour walkabout(couldn't take the crawl speed and music much longer), as I wompa'd to different OT cities. perhaps nikki has something there, even if it's not what FC intended, I just hope storms actions, arn't having the same effect on clan guilds?
Besides, if omnitec crumbled then..game over, because winning a war would mean a conclusion to the game wouldn't it?

I would like to see a solution to this unique/spawn/camping problem, others have already made some very well thought out sugestions. So here's an idea, and I have no clue as to how unworkable it may be.

Team mission specials:

Team takes mission, list of rewards includes some of the unique items. team has a chance to get them, unhindered, although the mission should be long and difficult. Include some mobbs that normally spawn in dungeons etc, bring some sense of adventure to the nights gamming for the team.

As for the battles in PvP dungeons, well yeah ok, leave them as it stands for those that want it. But for sure decrease the spawn time. sitting around talking, or arguing with another team for hours is not much fun after after the first hour.

I hope something changes soon FC, other wise we have a greatley reduced game here, you can lvl, you can earn tokens, well got the 1k board(missions only) done with that, got most of the items I really wanted. so what's left now, well I guess I could pwr lvl to 200 cast pitlizard on folks at partys, but given the content and storyline involvement, there's not much else is there?

The idea behind dungeons I always thought was to present the player base with new challanges, something different from missions(I know every map by heart now) or lvling, PvP well yeah if it worked, don't get me wrong, I like PvP in a game it works in, like UT or quake, (still play a little during sever re-starts etc)
But perhaps that's a whole other can of worms I shouldn't open here on this thread, I do so only to demostrate a point.

There just isn't the content in this game we where promised, and the current game dynamics/mechanics are just creating the wrong kind of conflict.

Perhaps I should ask, is it fixable, or is promised content at launch now only comming in a pay-for-it expansion?

All the best
cal

[___________MrTeatime]

Ok, let me tell you how I would fix Camelot:

1. Remove the PvP zone, it's just annoying and doesn't serve a purpose except to say "this dungeon is made for camping". It's there to let one team kill other teams trying to make it through - it might be fun if PvP was balanced and there were no mobs in the dungeon except a few bosses but as it is now...no.

2. Adjust the mobs in the dungeon. Make the dungeon itself hard for a normal team, based on the minimum level req to enter. Not just normal mobs with 10x HP, show some imagination here. Traps, labyrinths, buttons that are placed so that the team would have to split up and meet later on etc. Not just a big hallway with a bunch of mobs, which is frankly a bit pathetic for a dungeon.

What kind of defenses would there be if Camelot was used by real people? Would they keep Tarasque unguarded in a big room with lots of smaller mobs around him? Why are there a bunch of skeletons down there? More information needed.

3. Tarasque should be a lot smaller and easier to kill. What it drops would of course be less uber than now, but why do you feel the need to restrict these items to a few guilds? Let the items be nice (not uber), good looking etc. Let everyone who's higher than a certain level (min req to enter dungeon) get a chance to kill it if they bring a good team (and not their entire guild - 10-15 people maybe, preferably less) and get whatever it drops. Also let the players find out more about the dungeon and it's inhabitants (lore) throughout the quest. Tarasque should be on a 3-5 minute timer. Long enough to get ready, but you won't get bored.

4. Don't let people log back in inside the dungeon. If you log out and back in you'll be placed at the entrance. If you want to camp, you have to run through everything and actually stay online.

Everything in the dungeon should be there for a purpose. A huge dragon hidden in a tiny dungeon doesn't exactly sound logical, and why - assuming this is high-end content - did you make something that just screams camp me in big, bold letters? A short dungeon, a big room, phat loot, and a looooong timer. Bleh.

As for restricting loot access - WHY? Don't make quest/camp drops so darn good, or do you want 1000+ member guilds to rule the game? Why can't I walk up to someone using say Tarasque's sword and say "niiiice" and not feel like a total gimp with the "normal" sword I found last night?

Quests shouldn't be rated on their rewards. Getting nice items is part of the fun yes, but how about making the experience fun as well?

AO version now:
"I camped X mob 40 hours this weekend and finally got my X item"

Future?
"My group got split up at the jump and we had to fight the dungeon keeper with fewer people than we thought, but luckily we had a few bots for shields so we survived. Then we went the wrong way and hit the poison trap along with a few skeletons, I managed to keep myself healed until the doc could get to us. Holding the end room with just 7 people (1 doc) was hard with the fast spawn, but we only had one death and he got his X item before he died. I can't wait to go back and try the other way in a week." [some traps, not too hard bosses, fast spawn, 1 week timer for getting another X item (reward)]

[_______________Creep]

Did you not understand?

Tar is dying too much. Rare items arent as rare as they are envisioned to be.

And you expect FC to hand all these unique, rare, special items.. on a platter?

Hello???

At the moment, they seem to be handed to big guilds on a plate.

I don't want the nice items handed to me on a plate. I want to work for them. I want to complete a pesonal or team quest and fight my way through rivers of NPC blood. I want to think my way out of a corkscrew. I don't want to have to effectively ignore these items because I have no chance of getting them.

It is pretty obvious that FC is attempting to limit the number of the premium items that are circulating in the game. Why? Why not simply let everyone have a decent crack at getting the items. Accept that more of these items will be in the game. Limiting the supply (especially through camping) is tantamount to handing the items the powerful guilds.

[DaveDread]

Let me put it this way: Today, for the first time, I saw the remains of Daria Waltzer. I've never seen her alive. I hear she has some MA-only items, which I would like to have since I'm an MA. I've been popping over to her "spot" every now and then for 6 months and never ever seen her. Now, I finally saw the remains and some lvl 200 omnis flying of in the distance. Sigh.

The way I should do this in current game system: Clock her death, grab a bunch of friends/guildies, buff everybody up and log at her spawnplace. Log on 5 minutes before she spawns and team up, then slap her up the instant she spawns, trying to outdamage the other 4 teams going for her.

Real fun stuff, eh? Not in my eyes.

Sure, there's a smug feeling of superiority when "my" team outdamages an omni team in the Mantis Queen room, but it felt WAY better when we managed to take down the Queen when we were the only team in there. THAT meant something. Beautiful teamwork, heroics and whathaveya. Outdamaging other teams doesn't come near that feeling of pride. The Mantis egg is just a confirmation that we were there, I'm not even racing to get it wired up and fixed.

I fully support Biotronius here, he stated (as usual hehe) my opinions very well. I couldn't care less if everybody were running around with unique stuff. Only thing that would change is that you there would be people not in the larger guilds with unique stuff.

I don't wanna fight a spawn timer.
I don't wanna fight opposing teams.
I wanna fight the MOB. That should be the accomplishment.

And look at this thread, the big guilds nagging at eachother on who blocked what spawn blabla... I've never seen the things they are discussing. I know very well I would not have the slightest shot of getting dragon loot against these guys. Perhaps Tar is an exception since he's in 25%, but the other uniques? Never seen'em either. I dont want to sit and stare at my screen for 24 hours to get a clock on a mob, then coercing a bunch of friends to get up in the middle of the night to have a vague shot of outdamaging the "top dogs". Frankly, it's very boring.

[____________Kelveina]

Mission Key Dispensers.

This is SO simple.

One of my guildmates needs Nelebs Cloak. He is level 40. He gathers som like-level friends and heads to the dungeon meant for levels 30-50 or so stated.

They beat their way back to Neleb only to find level 130+ players camping Neleb.

So now the only way to beat this 30-50 dungeon is for our 100+ members to get together and go get this cloak for him. HArdly a challenge for us and more of a nuisance then anything else.

Mission Key Dispensers.
This would make the game 10,000% more fun for everyone, because now EVERYONE can go into a dungeon, fully loaded with MOBS, and actually fight back and get the item!!

Why....you could actually schedule a dungeon raid and not worry about having a line of people waiting to camp the Unique Spawn.

As it stands, I cringe at the thought of going to one of the beautiful dungeons because it is so stressing.

Mission Key Dispensers are the greatest idea thus far and should be implemented.

[_____________Cloudeh]

Originally posted by Rhayden


I'm glad you don't.

Camping = Bad.
Get it into yer heads already.

I like you, your funny

[_____________Swahili]

The fact that a unique mob's spawn time can be known based on the last time of death is just foolish. Why not randomize the spawn times?? The simple act of having to go check if a particular mob is up is loads better than knowing, "Oh, 10 minutes until Nugget/Daria/Tar/Jones/Whomever."

[Nikki.]

Kink is alone in our guild when he says things need to be rare to have meaning. He has some strange idea that he can only be happy if he is the only one.

Even if he turns out right that doesnt mean that it needs to be implemented NOW! We need tons more things to do to keep this cookie turning folks. Not in the future but NOW! You have NO MORE TIME to win us over. Its now or never for 90% of the people. We dont care how rare anything is all we want is something USEFUL and FUN getting it. Those are our ONLY requirements for Boss Mobs. We dont need to be the only one with the Edge of Tarasque, because if you remember right the First person to have the Edge was an NT if I remember right.

Funcom says well we are trying blah blah blah. Screw that Its not too hard to Put in a new feature EVERY WEEK. Its not like it has to be part of any published patch just a weekly update. Then decrease the timers on all old mobs, add more loot to them, and make sure tehy have something on them everytime. If it turns out rare items actually need to be added then do it LATER! Its easier to please the 99% rather than the 1% because more people quit when the 99% are unhappy. Seems logical to me, maybe not you though.


Noer
No its not bending game mechanics. Idle servers reloading was always intended. It was those people PURPOSELY going AFK to stop others from and INTENDED game feature from occuring. Just because designer x didnt take into consideration designer y's work doesnt mean it wasnt intended. It means designer x screwed up by not considering it. They didnt fix any other dungeon from doing this so it must be INTENDED!

Also your times are getting lower and lower on respawn times there first it was 30 now its 20 next it will be 10. Keep consistant lies it was 40 minutes every time Storm did it so how come it is different for you?

[___________Zeroshift]

Well, all that could be said about how we hate camping has been said it looks like...

All I'm going to say is this:

FC, take a clue from Asheron's Call. You don't need to make quests an impossible camp fest and frustrating expierence to make the loot worthwhile, valuable, or a status symbol.

You can remedy your quest situation by taking a few simple steps:

1. All unique mobs drop their loot every time.

2. Unique mobs respawn within 5-10 minutes.

3. Each person has a personal quest timer on the items they pick up. They cannot pick up another "sword of uber slaying" until a day, week, or month has passed.

4. Quest loot should never be the "best" and it should never be made to "balance" a class or skill. Quest items should unique and worth your time to get them, but they should never be the absolute best.

The best stuff should drop randomly out in the open. Anything that you know exactly where and when to get should not be that powerful. It just caters to the uber guilds.

These simple rules of design are what AC has followed, and it has worked wonderfully. Everyone gets what they came for, and gets out fast so the next group can enjoy the dungeon as it was meant to be seen.

Dungeons in AC were a great expierence, not something you had to force yourself through in order to obtain that phat uber lewt you can't live without.