Static Dungeon Spawn Time Discussion

[Peisinoe]

There was a neat concept in a MUD I played a few years ago. (Text based game...which sadly other then graphics seems to be light years ahead in being able to provide quests etc.)

It was called reset. In AO it would work like this. When a dungeon respawns, it resets. All players are zoned back outside of the dungeon. You now get to all fight your way back in. Because you know that there will be more then 'one team' attempting to re raid these dungeons, increase the spawn and difficulty. (Mobs along the way.) At the same time, increase the amount of 'dungeons'...or anything that has a mob with a unique item on it by a hundredfold. If there were 80 Tars in this game with varying types of eq with resetting dungeons all in 25% suppression, with a random chance of item load...it might be a little more interesting. The MUD I played had 500 people playing back then. There were probably at least 30-40 zones or 'dungeons' that were worth attempting to get the eq from. Even then it was hard to get what you needed. In a game like this where there are a heck of a lot more players then 500, with a heck of a lot less then 30-40 dungeons, can you wonder why people cry out against dungeons and camping and cry out in despair over ever getting their hands on any of that eq? Pump out so many dungeons that can even *gasp* carry eq with similar stats but different names/appearances that there won't be a huge line at any of them. When the lines start getting long again, bam. Pump out some more. A short line isn't bad. It simulates competition. The ability to pvp each other in all these dungeons will however keep the concept of competition going. It is after all, PVP that many players eventually turn to because there is a lack of anything else to hold their interest. It's conflict that drives most players. But not in this inverted buthole way that you at Funcom have developed. Oh, people are still driven. They do want those items. But there's not much sense of fun in it. It's mostly anger and frustration and a feeling of helplessness knowing that there are thousands of players who need that 'item'.

Now the problem I see is that Funcom must be very short in man power. I'll hold to that because the alternative would be that they were lazy and didn't give a damn about making the game fun. (While maybe the truth, I will try to give them the benifit of the doubt.)

[______________Barnak]

I dedicate my first post to this cause, i read forums a lot but rarely bother posting anything because there are some people that think exactly like I do that says it better. but i felt i had to "use" my frist post to contribute to this request, this thread is a request to the dev team, not a wish list. this is what has to be done now, and its for the better of everyone. It is even for the better of the people who wouldnt like it because they fought hard to get items that are now "easy" to obtain because you dont have to camp. because if people enjoy playing this game, it will be more fun for everyone, and when everyone is happy, more peple play and you get more interaction between players, people ar ein a good mood and want to team up and try something new even if they will not benefit items themself. I feel extremely sorry for Funcom if they dont make the "rare" items more available NOW because whatever their false reason is, they are wrong. I just know it, i know i will enjoy playing this game if i can consider dungeons as "existing part of the virtual environement" cause right now they dont exist to me.
why are you not allowing me to enter the dungeons? there is a bug and the door cant be opened. .... this sounds wrong right? if it was the case funcom would run and fix the bug so the dongeon door could be open so the dongeon could be explored, this is pure logic, well right now even if the door aint broken its all the same cause the content of the dungeons is unexistent to me. tkx i hope this way of seeing things will make funcom understand i want the the better of everyone that camping be abolished. and the trash king... its already hard enough to get a groop willing to go kill it, at least if i can manage to get a groop i want it to be there when i get there. this is a loop, i cant geta team to kill TK because he doesnt respawn. make his respawn fast and you fix 2 problem at once. If you think it is better to have him spawn rarely you are wrong, i do not want to explain why i am right you are wrong period make him respawn and i'll be happy, me happy = me still playing

hehe now you see why i dont post, i lack total structure when i write =D
have a nice day!

[vord]

test

[______________Mollie]

Originally posted by OzzySLAG
Don't make the spawntimes random, that will just add to the amount of frustration we already get...

Just skimming this thread and had to comment on this .. random spawntimes will increase your frustration only if you happen to know exactly when a mob should appear. Generalising this will affect some people more than others, here's a hint as to the most effected they keep livestock or harvest crops for profit

IMO and apologies to anyone that has brought this up already :

An idea for indoor/ (PvM) dungeon mobs would be to allow multiple dungeons to be spawned by the players, similar to the mission system but make the boss only spawn in one of these dungeons (random of course). So, you keep the rarity of items because you limit the number of bosses spawning to the same number as if there was only one dungeon. You keep the option to camp, if you're a player with lots of spare time and patience, and you gain the ability to `do' a dungeon without getting ks'ed by the level 200 brigade. The only snag being I don't know if it's possible to code mob spawn tables to work over multiple zones, but it's just an idea

My other thought would be to implement some sort of trivial loot code (players don't get loot if the mob is X many levels below them) in static dungeons, so a level 40-60 dungeon could be actually be populated by level 40-60 players, shocking thought I know.

[_____________Frasont]

Hi,
I have seen a post from Cosmik on June 1 that there will be some answers on this thread. Maybe, this was only a dream? Where can I find that answers?

Regards,
Cillfox

[Julka_Pomy]

Well i would like to hear reply this thread is breaking records 10k views.

But please also take a look at problem with 2-3 different camelots.

[______________yankoo]

Originally posted by Abunari
Enough with the artificial economy. Items that are unique/rare should be ones that players make for themselves, requiring 1k in certain tradeskills so that several people are required to make it. Then add the names of the people who helped build it to the final description of the item. That will make for some unique items. Especially if the final result depends on rare ingredients, and the QL of those ingredients. These items should be tradeable while in a resulting sealed canister, that can be opened with any lock pick, the open item should then be nodrop.

Hell, that has to be the best idea i've heard in a while...

[Tza]

30+ hours of camping Smugglers (and I mean smugglers, not that crappy den - don't try to program anything but a sheer surface - you can't do it anyhow)

2xMKII sleves missing

10 mill XP gained (at 'bout 30-40K a kill)

Do the math

Think I had load of fun? "Enjoyed" a dungeon? I stopped enjoying dungeons as I lagged my way through SOM.

Camelot static is the only static I'll be setting my feet in and smiling just a bit.

Because of spawn time? NO
Because I'm a happy camper? NO
Because I (or others) blitz to Tara to see if he's home? NO

Because its a 25% zone wich means something unexpected can happen other than servers being shut down or game crashhing.

If it was a single player game, then downtime could work because you would have to do other stuff between spawns, but AO isn't a single player game (untill the release of SWG and others), so kiss my shiney ( )*( ) when you propose increased camping.

[Hajkster]

Originally posted by Cosmik
First, a bit of news -

Today a change was made to the Camelot static dungeon. Previously, after everyone had left Camelot dungeon (that is, no player is in the dungeon playfield), the dungeon would remain for a short period of time and then a new dungeon would be loaded from the a hard disk. This, unfortunately, has caused problems.

Firstly, there has recently been alot of arguing and conflict between players because of instances where a few players would log a character into the dungeon to stop the dungeon itself from being loaded again. This has escalated into petitions, onto the boards here, and into other mediums. This type of conflict isn't good, to say the least, and we would rather give you the game mechanics to enjoy your play time, rather than be affected by conflict because of game mechanics.

Secondly, the fact that a dungeon can be loaded in such a quick time was not our primary plan. The items that are found in these static dungeons are meant to be very special and, depending on the item itself, somewhat hard to obtain - which raises it's uniqueness and worth. The ability for players to obtain a new dungeon in fairly quick succession made the items more available than we had hoped, and the items less special.

So, with these two factors heavily in mind, we made a change to the Camelot static dungeon. The previous load time of a dungeon (time it takes for a new dungeon to load after the last player leaves it) was set at that time to save server power. The time it now takes for a new dungeon to load up is now longer - what was intended originally, and what will be better for general gameplay. Note that nothing in the dungeon has been touched, and Camelot is the only static dungeon affected.

This now brings me onto a discussion I would like to start. Regarding the availability of special items, one thing we could have done is to keep the load time of dungeons the same, but either decrease your chance of finding a special item on a MOB (that is, make the loot more random). So, essentially, if you kill Tarasque (after putting in all that effort) there is less chance of getting Tarasque's items. Another option is to decrease the spawn of MOBs inside the dungeon. These are examples.

Basically, what I am doing, is inviting you all to participate in a discussion on unique items, unique MOBs, and camping - all in light of this change to Camelot. **Is what we had before acceptable? Is this change more of a step in the right direction? (in time, making this change to all the static dungeons) Or do we need to address the randomisation of loot itself on MOBs? **Do you want eally good loot and not much randomisation, or extremely great loot and less randomisation?

We'd like to hear your thoughts, so lay it all on me.

Why dont make it so when Tarasque or all special mobs is dead (and after some time) To change the PF of the cave ... then spawn a new cave with the PF before... So when you now enter the cave you enter a empty one newly spawned cave.

[______________Nianna]

Ultra-rare equipment should be ultra-rare because either the monster is ultra-difficult to kill so players cannot achieve it or because the process of producing them is a long series of time consuming tasks. The equipment should not be rare because something that should take 5 minutes can never be accomplished because the monster only spawns once every 18 hours. That just leads to more and more people who can accomplish the task and more and more griefing and anti-social play as all those people who can accomplish the task try to be the one person to succeed. The guy that is the winner probably feels pretty good about it, but all those other guys who could have done it too just feel like quitting because the game mechanic is so lame.

[______________Ylisar]

to decrease the spawn times isnt the way to go and to make numerous dimensions on the same dungeon isn't the way either. That would make the item totaly unvaluable. If u make it like that all ppl we go around with the same equipment (the best). The way to do it is to make use of all those useless dungeons without anything in them. The most wanted mobs should spawn random all across the map randomly. In the same moment it gets killed it spawns somewhere else. When u enter one of those dungeons that only contains some useless mobs u should be able to find a unique dungeon (which structure isn't random), and in the end of that dungeon u might find a locked chest which require X in B&E skill. Or maybe u find a boss to kill and from which u loot a random rare thing. Now to the second issue which maybe doesn't belong here but I will say it here anyway. When some1 in your team opens a chest and pick the things from that inventory those items should be added to a "team-inventory", same goes for bossloot. Then at some point this inventory's content is devided amongst the members of the team. 1 rule to apply is that player X gets all items that only player X is/will able to use. 2 is that the player that when rule 1 aplied got least items get's to chose from what's left except if there is something yber-rare deluxe and the other's only got crapy things. Rule 3 aplies when every1 has the same ammount of items, and that rule is that the left items get's devided amongst the members of the team random. This would stop ninja-looting, camping, frustation etc etc etc. And I heard earlier on in this thread that some1 suggested that the best things should be created by players, that was a VERY good idea imo. Atm many of the tradeskills are almost useless. And how can Egg be unique when about 1k others own it as well?

And yea I know that I can't write and I didn't have time to read all replies to this thread.

[thresholdrpg]

This goes to the common fallacy that WAY too many game designers suffer from.

There is nothing cool or fun about an item that say, only 1 in 1000 people have. Such a scenario is great for 1 person, and crappy for 999. Where is the logic there?

Every single item in the game should be actually obtainable by ANY player in the game (assuming they are powerful enough and/or can get a good enough SINGLE group together) as long as they are willing to put forth the effort.

You should not have to camp an area for a spawn, or camp a mob to kill it 50 times. That is a total load of crap.

The best case scenario would be that 100% of the time that a group sets off to kill the Tarasaque, it is there for them to fight.

The challenge should be in defeating the monster, not in defeating the game code in order to time the spawn or get lucky on the random loot roll.

[Darkbane]

Read quite an interesting interview with Richard Garriot which touched on just this subject and what he was planning on doing about it in Tabula Rasa... Rather like AO's mission system, but taken to the extreme... he likened it to being a bit like a theme park ride...

(if I can dig up the url, I'll add it later)

[______________Vashti]

Did anything come out of this post?

ive been waiting for ever for CZ/Cosmik/Dia to comment on this thread.


DID YOU GUYS FALL ASLEEP!

[secondkenlon]

You want some real content for the ubers?

Make the war *matter*.


Let us assault Tir.


Let the Clanners hit Omni-HQ.


<klingon>Let us do battle! </klingon>

Beef up the guards.
Have patrol routes, let them call for reinforcements (This applys to same side/neutral guard killers too), add Guard Medics and NTs and other support types and have them work together to attempt to defend whererever they are. (And call for PC assistance: *broadcast on the Omni-News channel* "Warning! The Outpost in Lush Fields at coords *blah* is under attack! Request assistance from all availiable combatants!")

Let us pull interesting loot off of the guards. Tokens, perhaps? or assorted high cred value items? Or specific trophys that can be used to make cool looking items (visual coolness, not uber-stat items, these are for bragging rights/taunting the opposition).

Have colonels and up drop boss-class loot. Have the war *matter*!

[_____________Cryptoc]

The idea stated below will require some effort from FunCom *gasp*, so it probably won't ever happen, but I can dream, can't I ^^;

It would be really neat for unique mobs to spawn in special locations ONLY ONCE. These locations would be picked by GMs or some other person in charge. The mob would be unique from any other mob and have some sort of backstory, also requiring work out of FunCom. They would drop special items (also needing to be designed by FC) which might just be cool looking armor or clothes, or a nano or weapon that one would be unable to get anywhere else. These locations couldn't be camped, seeing as how they're random. And they would contribute to the uniqueness of a character. You could tell when a character was in X battle with Y mob, and it could be a REAL ranking system, other than the silly PvP title system, or the Mission Token system, or even the level system.

Impossible, unless FunCom starts CARING about how fun this game is, and puts some effort into making it dynamic and enjoyable.

[Cz]

Hi all,

We've been discussing this back and forth, reading other threads, and looking at the development in the dungeons, especially Camelot.

We have looked at other solutions, and considered the intended situation around the unique creatures and loot, as well as the current situation in the dungeons.

Result: The spawns will stay as they are now.

Note that other changes to the dungeons are still on our list of issues. This is about the spawn only.

We might bring this up again later, and have a new discussion with the designers based on your feedback, but right now there will be made no changes to the spawn. I know many players will not like this, and you are free to e-mail me (or use private messaging here on the bulletin board) your views and ideas.

Note, other changes to the dungeons are still on our list of issues. This is about the spawn only.

I will close this thread now, but you are of course free to carry on the discussion in other forums.