Sentinels win CoT election by landslide. Simon declines the office of first speaker

[Marisha]

Originally posted by Sallust
The Council of Truth isn't going to close up meetings just because a single speaker doesn't arrive. Is that what you're suggesting Ms. Marisha?

Not in the least, Sallust. Rather, I would suggest that you amend the Council bylaws, and the individual titles, to indicate that these appointees and placeholders are deputies. For instance, when I’m the ranking departmental executive at a meeting and someone says, “Oh, are you the head of THM?” I don’t respond that I am, rather that I’m just the ranking executive present.

To refer to oneself as “Speaker of the Council” because the actual speaker didn’t show up and somebody had to fill in immediately puts my mind the thought that there has been a hidden shift in power.

Consider this just a friendly suggestion from a Corporate employee that wishes your endeavors in the public realm the best.

[_____________Mihalix]

Seems that omni is in great pain that they have no control over the CoT. So they say if whe cant control it whe must destroy it. CoT is the only thing what can control the so called rampaging clans. And the CoT is the only thing that can create lasting peace. Omni should back its exsistence. And Silverstone was only elected because the overall fear and hate towards omni. Most people honestly dont like the Sentinels (im not one of them). But they fell safer under ther leadership. Omni this is your fault. Further eforts to undremin the CoT will only lead to more power to be given to the Sentinels.

[joshuacrime]

Not that she has any official desk to speak of. We love it when the cogs in the wheel speak when it's not their place to do so. But that's OK. We can continue on with this discussion about the interpretation of history all day long. That has little or nothing to do with the current state of affairs, other than to bring a past perspective into how we all got here.

As for an Omni-Tek employee in no official capacity giving Clan "the truth" on how WE violated all of the standing agreements of the Tir Accord, or the past so-called "crimes" of Simon Silverstone, or whoever else you might want to drum up that piddles on your oatmeal in the morning, that doesn't cause me the slightest bit of sleep deprivation.

Even if you were someone that could honestly negotiate with Clan organizations about what we might or might not do, or how we might organize so that it meets your standards of how a governing body should work, we'd still fly the big bird your way. No one speaking here is an Omni-Tek plentipotentiary and I doubt very seriously that someone like that even exists in Omni-Tek.

Because the moral authority you may have had to rule this planet was lost the day the rebellion began. You may rule your sector of this planet with impunity, and by your rules, but do not think for the slightest moment that you rule where Clan lives. And we don't care what spaceball mumbo-jumbo lawyer crap you pull out of Paragraph 2e, Section Zed of the Omni-Tek Opressors Of The Workers Treaty-o-rama. Those things no longer apply. Only when it's convenient for you to use it for your own benefit. Much like most unscrupulous corporations.

The compact of any "governing body" with those it governs is tacit and understood. The compact is that, to perpetuate the state, the state must benevolently rule it's people, represent them and insure that their well being is attended to. In exchange for this fair and sound treatment by the state, the people support the body politic, in patriotism and in economic matters. However, once that compact is removed, and the State is a monster that eats it's own, then it must be removed. It certainly loses it's own authority to rule once that has taken place.

[Marisha]

Originally posted by Mihalix
Seems that omni is in great pain that they have no control over the CoT. So they say if whe cant control it whe must destroy it. CoT is the only thing what can control the so called rampaging clans. And the CoT is the only thing that can create lasting peace. Omni should back its exsistence.

Indeed. And as hard as this may be for some to understand, I do welcome it. I have in the past inquired openly about what assistance the Corporation could give the clans in order to help them form a stable government. I have privately hoped that conversations with the moderates could be encouraged, though I often find myself disappointed when individuals I believed to be influential moderates began to scream for blood.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
As for an Omni-Tek employee in no official capacity giving Clan "the truth" on how WE violated all of the standing agreements of the Tir Accord, or the past so-called "crimes" of Simon Silverstone, or whoever else you might want to drum up that piddles on your oatmeal in the morning, that doesn't cause me the slightest bit of sleep deprivation.

While I am glad that you are getting the sleep you require, I do not believe that I said the clans had violated every agreement of the Tir Accord. However, is it so difficult to admit that it is difficult to have a dialog with an absent body? As for the “so called crimes” of Silverstone, is not an assault on a population who wishes to remain uninvolved in the current conflict a crime? Perhaps next we should overlook virgin sacrifice and cannibalism.

Are Omni-Tek’s hands clean? No. In the past we have done horrible things. However, this is in the past, and we have made efforts to address our wrongdoings. Despite initial public outrage amongst the clans, most seem to have accepted what they previously decried as wrong in the name of security.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
Even if you were someone that could honestly negotiate with Clan organizations about what we might or might not do, or how we might organize so that it meets your standards of how a governing body should work, we'd still fly the big bird your way.

I sincerely hope that the majority of the clans do not share this opinion with you. It is my hope that one day there can be a new cease fire between the clans and Omni-Tek.

As for my suggestion regarding how deputy speakers should be defined as deputies, it comes from my long association with “Robert’s Rules of Order.” The good book of Bob and I were close friends years ago, and I’ve found that things move much easier when a body attempts to hold to them.

Originally posted by joshuacrime
And we don't care what spaceball mumbo-jumbo lawyer crap you pull out of Paragraph 2e, Section Zed of the Omni-Tek Opressors Of The Workers Treaty-o-rama.

As my Intro to the Law professor was fond of saying “The Law is like oxygen. It is all around you, you can not escape it, and it is essential for life.” You choose to ignore it at your own risk. I wish you the best of luck once you attempt to become part of the larger galactic community.

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Mihalix
And Silverstone was only elected because the overall fear and hate towards omni. Most people honestly dont like the Sentinels (im not one of them). But they fell safer under ther leadership. Omni this is your fault.

"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--B.'. Franklin


Savoy

[Keldros]

Originally posted by Savoy


"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
--B.'. Franklin

Hmmm, now where have I heard that recently?

/me turns back to pages 6 and 7.

Ah! I knew it sounded familiar!

[joshuacrime]

Well, nice to see that we haven't been shut down by the powers-that-be for our thinly veiled flamefest disguised as a debate.

However, all other things aside, we are dealing with the things happening currently and not in the past, as most of us have gotten past that.

And we are not going to sit around debating on how we live with certain books of parlimentary/legal documents as they were the Judeo-Christian Bible of yore. Personally, I re-read over and over again the old Earth Book accounts and letter of my personal "hero" for lack of a better word: Thomas Jefferson. In both books I use, Life and Selected Writings of Thomas Jefferson and Jefferson and Civil Liberties: The Darker Side (for the other side of the coin).

So, on one hand, you can lawyer, or you can delve into the philosophy of situations. Either way will get you where you want to go from your own perspective, but being a lawyer concerned with the absolute "letter" of something without examining the subtext of the current time in which the treaty is signed is being a nitpicker. Looking at a treaty as if it were a contract is very counterproductive, as no treaty or compact was ever a suicide pact that I'm aware of.

So, being a "Jeffersonian" as I am (for lack of a better word for a libertarian thinker), being saddled with unreasonable demands of treaties that have little in common with the new realities of the situations they were originally intented to regulate is not something I would ever go along with, nor would any reasonable thinker. Jefferson's total abrogation of the 4th Amendment to the United States Constitution during their "Embargo" period was hardly going by the rules of their own governmental rights and framework, and in passing they probably regretted doing it, but there were underlying reasons for doing it that, in the short run, were necessary. In the long run, they seems frivolous and dangerous, but in the long run we are all dead.

As for the current targeting of Simon Silverstone by the Omni and Neutral commenting on this little thread of ours, I want to make sure we're on board here with the same set of facts. Did Simon Silverstone and the Sentinels (why does this sound like a terrible rock band to me) in fact march into a Neutral city such as Borealis, Newland, Hope, or any of the others with masses of armed troops and start indiscriminately killing civilians, women, children, leets and reets in huge numbers? No, I don't recall that. Please correct me if I am being misled in that regard. Did he go into Tir and remove all non-Clan presence (de jure but not de facto) from the city? Yes, he did try that. We have discussed the reasoning behind this in previous tacks, so I will not belabour the point.

In typical lawyer fashion, the decree goes that the law is all around us and cannot be ignored. True, and no one would argue that sensible laws sensibly enforced hurt no one but lawbreakers. However, bringing legality into the political ring is not very sensible. And quoting is very fun for me as well. In the immortal words of Charles Dickens in Oliver Twist, “If the law supposes that,” said Mr. Bumble, “the law is a ass, a idiot.”

I, too, wish that all residents of Rubi-Ka will soon become members of the big galactic family, provided that we are not ruled by totalitarian corporate dictators and instead ruled by a representative democracy, republic or whatever form of government we can all agree on where we all are represented by our own decree. Once we get to that point, I'll be glad to say that "Omni-Tek is my friend, because it is just where I work, not where I draw my every life's breath from, nor does it demand I worship it like a religion". And we can all go down to the bar and have a Leet Piss, get drunk and yell like fools and not shoot each other. Sounds OK by me. First round is on me.

[Harme]

Pretty late to the party here...

But josh, that sounds damn fine. But we can do that now, Hec k *ILL* buy the first round!

[_____________Mihalix]

Well well you are i could say a pacifist josh. The fact is that you still work for omni. (At your free choice as i understand.) I as a claner still see you as my enemy. Law sucks!you say well maybee but ist still an unfurtunat necesity. The situation is that today whe agree on something but tomorow whe well surly shot ech other. Life just has no sence. But whe sont have a choice.

[keyya]

Originally posted by Aazamon


More than failed it is a slap in the face to all the neutrals who have tried to reach out to the Clans. Any Clan supporting the Sentinels have now declared war on neutrals. They may not care but this is a fact. I do not say that Clans declared war on neutrals, only the ones supporting the Sentinals. This after we worked our asses off for months after months to remove the warr gang at great peril to ourselves and others. It is a sad sad sad day for Rubi-Ka!

Excuse me, but a lot of Neutrals have links to Omni-Teks. They are actually tied to Omni-Tek organisations, but still say "they are neutral". If you think us Clanners are the enemy then why dont you join Omni-Tek? Only thing your doing right now is changing the name of neutrals into "people who will be neutral whenever they choose to".
There are so many neutrals that can help Omni-Tek by gaining access to our cities. The only thing the Sentinels are doing is not alowing anyone else except for Clanners into tir.
Theyve never said they are in war with neutrals.
Dont make assumptions that arent true...because either your just saying stuff that youre making up or its straight propaganda.

[Naefen]

Originally posted by Legaron


Theyve never said they are in war with neutrals.
Dont make assumptions that arent true...because either your just saying stuff that youre making up or its straight propaganda.

So stating that all Neutrals should be exterminated right along with Omni Tek employees is not a declaration of war? Ok that makes perfect sense...

[keyya]

Ive never heared him say that...if so, my mistake.

[Keldros]

Originally posted by Legaron
Ive never heared him say that...if so, my mistake.

Quote from High Commander Fisk:
I loathe the neutral, even more so than the Omnis.

NOTHING will ever dissuade me. Neutrals should be wiped off the planet

...if it were up to me, and I had the resources available, both Newland City and Borealis would be blown to thousands of pieces in order to eradicate this breeding ground for thoughtless indifferent drones they have created.

--These are hardly the words of someone at peace with neutrals. Of course, they're Fisk's words, not Silverstone's. Maybe Simon has plans to keep his men in line?

Of course not. He has publicly stated that he holds the same opinion as men.

[Naefen]

What Keldros said

And Id like to add.
Supporting Sentinels place you right in line with cold blooded killers. I, and many others, will look upon you as someone who would not think twice about killing civilians( old, women, children) who are not alligned to you.

Simon Silverstone is a man filled with hatred and contempt and those who follow him seem ,to me, to be ruthless, narrow-minded and honorless criminals who think it better to be in the shade of one of the greatest threats to peace than to openly stand for themselfes and theyre own ideas.

((edit:00c: That came out a bit harsher than I ment it to be....... well its just RP guys..))

[Keldros]

Posted by Naefen
Supporting Sentinels place you right in line with cold blooded killers.

Of course, the same can be said for supporting Omni-tek. Look at what happened in Borealis six months ago.

For that matter, take a trip to the town called "Safe Haven" and talk to any inhabitants you can find there. I couldn't get their story out of my head that day in Borealis...it was a very similar turn of events.

Yes, I know you want to claim this was caused by a few deviant individuals overdue for a trip to Omni CEBAF, but answer these questions for me: Why has there been no investigation to date? Don't you think it is in your own interest to find out who these individuals are so they can recieve the treatment they need?

[keyya]

Originally posted by Naefen

Simon Silverstone is a man filled with hatred and contempt and those who follow him seem ,to me, to be ruthless, narrow-minded and honorless criminals who think it better to be in the shade of one of the greatest threats to peace than to openly stand for themselfes and theyre own ideas.
[/B]

Don't forget that its how you made us.
And stuff like this is only going to make it worse...
You think Simon Silverstone and the ones that follow him were born this way? You think that the Clanners has thought their children from the begining to be that way?

[[hehe, its all RP so it doesnt really matter, as long as its clean noone will mind anything you say *smiles*]]

[Naefen]

I dont recall ever hearing Mr Ross say he wants to obliterate every clanner and Neutral.... And that is the topic at hand.
Allthough I disagree with alot of people regarding that incident Mr.Keldro atleast please admit there were no leading Omni Tek employees running around there screaming "Death to all but Omni Tek". But that incident have nothing to do about this...

And no, I dont think Simon were born that way. I do, however, believe clanners teach theyre children to be like themselfes. And evil clanners have children aswell.

[keyya]

Originally posted by Naefen
I dont recall ever hearing Mr Ross say he wants to obliterate every clanner and Neutral.... And that is the topic at hand.

Correct, he never says he wants to obliterate every clanner and neutral.
But you should look at it this way:

Simon Silverstone = Soldier

Phillip Ross = Politician

Know what I mean?

[Naefen]

So your saying that Mr. Ross says one thing and intend to do another then if I understand you correctly. I would like to remind you that Mr.Ross is an honorable man and I would think very hard before comparing him with Silverstone. Its just not right.

[keyya]

How many Clanners do you know that have the same idea about Ross as you do?

Its alright to chose a side and believe whatever the leader of that side tells you. No problem with that.
But my opinion simply isnt the same as yours.

Ross could say, Im a very nice man and I will always prevent any Omni-Tek employees from getting hurt or what not.

Silverstone could say, Im not nice and Im gonna kill everyone that stands in my path to my goal.

I say at least silverstones honest...