Sentinels win CoT election by landslide. Simon declines the office of first speaker

[Keldros]

Originally posted by Aknar

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Therefore thinking men cannot side with the promices of Omni-Tek

I must have missed something here...which essential liberties did Omni-tek employees give up in signing their contracts?

The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims have been born of earnest struggle. If there is no struggle, there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom, and yet deprecate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightning. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters

Agreed, there is no progress without struggle. Of course, there is quite a bit of struggling without progress. Why do you support that?

Look at the results of some clans struggling against the Council of Truth. Tir is run by a murderous despot, the Tir accord has been annulled, and Omni-tek claims authority to patrol the entire planet. This is progress? Who has shown that they "can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety?"

Fight and you may die. Run and you'll live, at least a while. And, dying in your beds, many years from now, would you be willing to trade all the days from this day to that for one chance -- just one chance -- to come back here and tell our enemies, that they may take our lives, but they'll never take our freedom!

Until it is time to fight against the Clans for our freedom we must fight with them....

Let's see...we're denied the freedom to visit our friends and relatives in Tir on pain of death, by Simon Silverstone.

I have to wonder how wise you are in asking me to join the fight, when you so clearly are not to be considered as an ally.

[Naefen]

There are people on both sides that have lost theyre close ones in this conflict. Close ones that have been executed, tormented and taken hostage.
Siding with a psychopatic killer who wont stop until everyone on the other side is anihilated is still wrong in my opinion.
Revenge is fair, holocaust is not.

[Daimoness]

Mind you, it was Omni-Tek who voided the Tir Accord, it was not the clans.

And what part Omni-Tek played in the turmoil leading to the downfall of the old Council of Truth might never be uncovered. I still remember the false accusations against Radiman and others for supporting Dust Brigade, among other plots aimed at overthrowing the only chance for a lasting peace.

[Nathrak]

I stand by my words and the words from the long years past. The sins of OT are only too clear and need no further glory heaped on them.

Those that have yet to take a stand must remember the only reason they are able to do so is the Clans have taken a stand first. I am a man of Athens, my brothers in Tir see some things differently than we. They will take what course they see fit and I will support their right to do so within the borders of Tir. I suggest you avoid the area and doubt very much your opinion matters much to them. I suggest strongly you reflect on why OT has seemingly befriended your kind, think it would last beyond a defeat of the Clans? Perhaps they would allow you the security to starve in peace....or join Omni-Tek.

[Marisha]

Originally posted by Daimoness
Mind you, it was Omni-Tek who voided the Tir Accord, it was not the clans.

Only after one of the signatory bodies went into hiding. It’s difficult to have a treaty when there is only one body involved (General Framework, fifth point, for the curious).

Originally posted by Daimoness
And what part Omni-Tek played in the turmoil leading to the downfall of the old Council of Truth might never be uncovered. I still remember the false accusations against Radiman and others for supporting Dust Brigade, among other plots aimed at overthrowing the only chance for a lasting peace.

We requested to question a pair of staffers regarding suspected Dust Brigade support originating from the Council of Truth (Annex 2b, first point). Radiman and the Council refused, exercising their rights per the Treaty (Annex 2b, fourth point).

Why he refused is the question, though. If Radiman and the Council had nothing to fear and had not been supporting known terrorists, why did he refuse to hand over the staffers? One possibility is that he and the Council of Truth was in fact supporting terrorists. Another is that he felt that it would have been political suicide to do so, after his inability to control rogue clans interfering with our operations in Sabulum (Annex 1a, first and second point), and due to increasing pressure from the Council of Ares, he realized that refusing to turn over these staffers would lead to increased hostilities from the rogue clans.

Did our request to question these individuals arrive at a difficult time for the Council of Truth? I won’t deny that they did. However, this was an effort to stop known terrorists that threaten us all, as the clans have pointed out at numerous times.

Until Radiman answers the numerous questions related to his disappearance, these questions will remain, and it will be difficult to place unilateral blame on one side, despite the efforts of the extremists.

[Nathrak]

The "efforts" of OT to "stop" the DB border on fantasy. One has only to look to the Hope incident for the true goal of OT. The request by OT for questioning was nothing more than an attempt to fracture Clan political structure. When the Ross is willing to submit to questioning by the Clans then you may have some valid reason to expect us to answer OT's questions treaty or no. But than we know that will never happen dont we.

[_____________Mihalix]

The word >neutral< lost any real meaning maybe except one that you dont belong to omni or to the clans. Now days neutral only means a new faction. One whit its own goals. Profit just as the corps. main goal. By their independence they are trying to get more profits then they would get by taking sides. Silverstone is has a point when he is saying that neutrals are enemys. Vixentrox you cant fihgt a war on your own tell your story there mihgt be a way to help you finis what you started. Who are you so mad at? Speak out tell the world what happend!

[Keldros]

Originally posted by Aknar
I stand by my words and the words from the long years past.

That's easy to do when the words are as hollow and meaningless as the ones I've seen so far.

Like a child with his imaginary friend...

"Look at me! I'm standing by my principles!"

"Oh, no, I never wavered at all! They're over here! You just can't see them!"

The adults around you can see you have none, and so we don't take you seriously.

Like a child, you expect to have your way simply because it doesn't occur to you how you can be so wrong sometimes.

The sins of OT are only too clear and need no further glory heaped on them.

Oh, I'll agree with that. But I blame the atrocities of two hundred years ago on the employees who comitted them or made excuse to cover them up, not the ones who are minding their own business today.

Now, that's not saying all current OT employees are without blame. But while a handful may still commit crimes against humanity, you commit equal crimes against those who have done you no harm, and expect that to win you freedom when it only earns you enemies.

After thinking, I also have to comment on this:

I suggest you avoid the area and doubt very much your opinion matters much to them.

What? You want me to give up my liberties for some temporary safety, as you have so obviously done in this case? (So much for standing by your words...)

Frankly, I've done more to defend Tir than I've ever seen one of the Sentinels do...or all of them put together, for that matter. If they don't like me then they are the ones who need to come to grips with their issues.

[Daimoness]

The mere fact that the Council of Truth went into hiding does not void a treaty. The CoT was only representing the clans, it's neither a clan nor has it, at any time, been a government. It is an assembly of independent clans, where matters of common interest are discussed and settled. Thus, the absence of the Council only means that the voice uttering the words is gone, not the the people behind it. We offered to continue the Tir Accord, Omni-Tek declined it and thus declared war. It's a matter of simple logic. Are you surprised now that in the new CoT many clanners vote for someone who doesn't have much interest in more petty words that are likely to be voided at the convenience of the CEO and his pet lawyers?

Frankly, unlike many others, I am very happy that clans like Sentinels exist, cause it is the Sentinels and a few other clans that keep Omni-Tek from openly "reclaiming" what they still think is their property. I might not agree to everything they do, but then again, these aren't normal times.

As for Radiman refusing to be questioned by Omni-Tek: It comes at no surprise. The only way you would ever get me to a "questioning" by Omni-Pol or any other OT authority is by dragging my cold, lifeless body down there. I cannot think of any circumstances that would make me cooperate in any way with a law enforcement agency that apparently disregards even the most basic human rights and generally acts like they can get away with everything. I still lively remember how Omni-Pol officers gunned down unarmed and peaceful clansmen, and the list of crimes commited under the guise of being a police force is quite long. I remember my encounters with several high-ranking Omni-Pol officers and their general attitude of superiority and self-righteousness.

You are surprised that I won't cooperate, or any other clansman, for that matter?

A solution to the present problems on Rubi-Ka cannot be found on the battlefield. But for the time being, the number of people inciting the conflict seems larger than those that would like to end it. No amount of nice talking can change that. Thus, if we like it or not, we are at war. If we try to retain a least bit of civilization or let ourselves be turned into barbarians in the process however is our own choice.

-D

[Marisha]

Originally posted by Daimoness
The mere fact that the Council of Truth went into hiding does not void a treaty. The CoT was only representing the clans, it's neither a clan nor has it, at any time, been a government.

Not according to the Tir Accord. First paragraph defines the Council as the “governing body of the united, independent Clans of Rubi-Ka.” Are you saying that this was a willful misrepresentation of its true function?

Originally posted by Daimoness
Thus, the absence of the Council only means that the voice uttering the words is gone, not the the people behind it. We offered to continue the Tir Accord, Omni-Tek declined it and thus declared war.

When did the clans offer this? I must of missed the memo. However, can you at least bring youself to admit that when two bodies are discussing matters, and one of them disappears, it’s somewhat difficult to continue the conversation?

Originally posted by Daimoness
Frankly, unlike many others, I am very happy that clans like Sentinels exist, cause it is the Sentinels and a few other clans that keep Omni-Tek from openly "reclaiming" what they still think is their property. I might not agree to everything they do, but then again, these aren't normal times.

It’s very easy to hate the jailers in an asteroid gulag, or militants who call for ethnic cleansing. But these people are not the real danger. It is decent people who compromise with evil.

Originally posted by Daimoness
The only way you would ever get me to a "questioning" by Omni-Pol or any other OT authority is by dragging my cold, lifeless body down there.

Even if it would possibly end a terrorist threat that threatens the clans as well? And you wonder why we continue to mention that the old Council may have supported the Dust Brigade, and that the Sentinels have given their unofficial approval to their actions. Silence is compliance.

[Xhairs]

Originally posted by Aknar
It is a known truth there is nothing new under the stars, all things have happened and will happen again. Therefore it is the past that holds the key to the future. Considering the wisdom of the ancients...

They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.

Therefore thinking men cannot side with the promices of Omni-Tek

First of all, he failed to mention that some of those ancients also thought that ingesting mercury would make you live forever.

Second, are you nuts? Saying some one wanting to be safe does not deserve that?

Third, i would like to make a little addition. "... or with the Clans in general, it will rott your brain and make your logic as clear as mud."

[Vixentrox]

Memo To: Mr. Ross

You are wanted for questioning in the framing of the old Council of Truth members in relation to the Dust Brigrade, for crimes against humanity, and for allowing and ordering willful destruction of individual property. Please report to West Athen, Back Yard 4 for questioning. Thank you.


This subpena issued under the authority of Clan Whisper's Edge.

//Signed//

[Vixentrox]

Now we wait to see if Mr. Ross shows. If not, it's evidence of his guilt isn't it? That's what you are all claiming from the members of the previous Council.

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Vixentrox
Now we wait to see if Mr. Ross shows. If not, it's evidence of his guilt isn't it? That's what you are all claiming from the members of the previous Council.

Kind of missing the point their Vix. At the time of the CoT incidents, both Omni-Tek and the Cot had signed the Tir Accord which explicilty covered rules on how OT could conduct investigations in Clan territory.

Somehow I doubt there is a similar document between WE and OT.

Savoy

[Marisha]

Originally posted by Vixentrox
Now we wait to see if Mr. Ross shows. If not, it's evidence of his guilt isn't it? That's what you are all claiming from the members of the previous Council.

I believe if you re-examine my statement, you will see that I said, “The old Council may have supported the Dust Brigade.” I’m giving the accused the benefit of the doubt. If you do not wish to extend the same courtesy, so be it. It’s not my credibility at stake.

The original request was under our rights as defined by the Tir Accord, Annex 2b, point one. Should you wish to enter into negotiation with the Company to establish a new Accord so that you can peruse a legal investigation into your claims, so be it, though two weeks ago you seemed quite resistant to even meeting with an Omni-Tek representative. I suppose your reformed CoT has gotten everything under control since then.

[Vixentrox]

Within your rights to ask....but to question people you needed the approval of the Council under the same 2b paragraph.

[Vixentrox]

And as for meeting with an OT rep, that day may eventually come. I have been Speaker of the Atlantean CoT for two sessions, that doesn't give me the right to do what I want.

[Marisha]

Originally posted by Vixentrox
Within your rights to ask....but to question people you needed the approval of the Council under the same 2b paragraph.

Indeed. And negotiations were ongoing as to how the investigation would have been handled. However, they fled, and the Council announced that they did not have the authority or resources to locate or apprehend them. This was an odd statement from a body claiming to be the clan government, to say the least. It also begs the question, why did Spiva and Solari flee, and what did they know that lead an attack by the Dust Brigade that resulted in their Permadeath?

Originally posted by Vixentrox
And as for meeting with an OT rep, that day may eventually come. I have been Speaker of the Atlantean CoT for two sessions, that doesn't give me the right to do what I want.

And here I thought that it was actually the Sentinels who had won the election, and that it had been passed off to the Knights when Simon refused the position. Congratulations on your promotion and/or your acceptance into the leadership of the Knights, Speaker Flowers.

[Vixentrox]

Someone had to be the Speaker for the first meeting did they not before one was elected? When Sir Tristram was unable to make the second meeting, someone had to assume the role. I did not ask for it but, the task fell to me. When Sir Tristram is availbale to run things, he won't have the power to do what ever he wants either. That comes from the will of the Council. If the Council wishes to open offical dialogue then it will happen. If not, then it won't.

Of course, anyone can open private and unoffical talks with the corportaion....much like we are doing now.

[Sallust]

To back up Vixentrox the same thing happened in the Rimor chamber as well. Terra Firma is the majority leader of Rimor chamber and appointed a Clerical Staff Bureaucrat (also aligned with Terra Firma) to be speaker.

The Council of Truth isn't going to close up meetings just because a single speaker doesn't arrive. Is that what you're suggesting Ms. Marisha?