Shadowland

[Archelan]

Originally posted by Mr Bean
Not for long, Rumor has it goes no-drop come 14.2(anyone can confirm or Deny that little tid bit?)

I got the impression that this rumour has it's roots in people who don't read english very well, or who easily misunderstand things in general (no, that's not meant as an insult).

The patch notes state that the old LLTS will no longer drop, but I don't see how that can mean that they will become NODROP. It simply means they can no longer be found as loot or in chests - only way to get them is to buy them off other players.

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by Krabbus
New items are okey as long they are nodrop

No, actually new items are fine even if they aren't Nodrop. That is the benefit of PAYING for an expansion pack. Not sure what jacked up definition of expansion you have, but it usually means expanding on the original game design meaning new items, playfields and skills (what else is there?)

To say you want all the benefits of the expansion without paying for it is moronic. That's the thrill of it, and if you can understand such a simple concept I have no sympathy.

[BoomDoom]

Why even have an expansion pack if its not allowed to change any game mechanics. Let me be clear.

In order to EXPAND the game things must be CHANGED. Otherwise it would be a graphics pack.

Nobody is forcing you to buy the new pack when it comes out. Simply continue to play the way you always have. Nobody will care and nobody will think you're a bad person because you don't want the expansion. But, not having will close off certain doors to you.

[Krabbus]

Ok, here are some points from me, just think about it.

1. New items in Shadowland Expansion is not No-Drop, so SL Players (Shadowland players) can trade the items between each other, someone tries to sell it in the shopping channel to make some cash. In a normal world it's possible to trade everything that isn't connected to you body but not in Rubi-Ka, here we have two different dimensions in the same world. Both see each other, but can't trade new items with ppl from the old dimension only with ppl from the SL dimension.

First thought here, this is going to be wierd. Now we have to look after it's a SL item before even bid for it. If it was No-Drop this wouldn't be any issue.

2. I think it's wonderful that they change the gamemechanics, the system that make AO work like it do today, but when changing a vital part as gamemechanics u can't let the other version of AO fall behind since these players are in the same dimension as SL Players.

If they do this will SL players have an advantage of players that doesn't have this expansion pack - making it even more unbalanced that it is today. If u don't agree here then I would call u a moron, sorry

The gamemechanics is too important for a game like this and changing a fundamental structure like this need to be implemented in both versions.

3. Extra playfields as Shadowland and Jobe is a good implementation, only people that have payed for the "key" (the SL Expansion pack) can get access to this areas. This will not affect the normal life out in Rubi-Ka as it's not important for the gamemechanics.



I agree that SL players should get new things, the new playfields will be awsome, new graphics and some special items (but I think they should be no-drop to make the game more logical)

My point:
A change in the gamemechanics should be implemented in both versions, because this is the foundation of Anarchy Online.

Do u really disagree at my point?

[BoomDoom]

Originally posted by Krabbus
Ok, here are some points from me, just think about it.

1. New items in Shadowland Expansion is not No-Drop, so SL Players (Shadowland players) can trade the items between each other, someone tries to sell it in the shopping channel to make some cash. In a normal world it's possible to trade everything that isn't connected to you body but not in Rubi-Ka, here we have two different dimensions in the same world. Both see each other, but can't trade new items with ppl from the old dimension only with ppl from the SL dimension.

First thought here, this is going to be wierd. Now we have to look after it's a SL item before even bid for it. If it was No-Drop this wouldn't be any issue.

Yeah, it makes plenty of sense in a game sense. IF YOU DON'T PAY FOR THE EXPANSION YOU DON'T GET THE BENEFITS. PERIOD, END OF STORY.

Originally posted by Krabbus
2. I think it's wonderful that they change the gamemechanics, the system that make AO work like it do today, but when changing a vital part as gamemechanics u can't let the other version of AO fall behind since these players are in the same dimension as SL Players.

If they do this will SL players have an advantage of players that doesn't have this expansion pack - making it even more unbalanced that it is today. If u don't agree here then I would call u a moron, sorry [/B]

No problem jerky, say whatever you will. Players that buy the expansion pack should have an advantage. Why don't you get that? If I buy the new expansion and spend money on it and you don't why should we have the same options? What you're saying is that you want to buy a Honda civic and race my corvette. It doesn't work that way. You get what you pay for. If you don't pay for everything you don't get everything.

Originally posted by Krabbus
The gamemechanics is too important for a game like this and changing a fundamental structure like this need to be implemented in both versions.[/B]

Clearly you are wrong, as we have learned in nearly other MMORPG ever released. Everquest puts out new packs like once a year. If you didn't buy any of the packs you can't play gnomes (or whatever the new race was, at least that's what I'm told).

Originally posted by Krabbus
3. Extra playfields as Shadowland and Jobe is a good implementation, only people that have payed for the "key" (the SL Expansion pack) can get access to this areas. This will not affect the normal life out in Rubi-Ka as it's not important for the gamemechanics. [/B]

So you want the players that buy the expansion to be able to go to Shadowlands but not get anything while they are there? Except for No-drops of course, which means that the new expansion pack will add nothing to the economy. Which is a little odd, considering one of the advantages is the ability to modify existing items.

Originally posted by Krabbus
I agree that SL players should get new things, the new playfields will be awsome, new graphics and some special items (but I think they should be no-drop to make the game more logical)[/B]

That makes plenty of sense.

"Todd, where were you"
"In the Land of the Dead Billy"
"Did you find anything kewl?"
"Yes, the sceptor of the damned"
"Can I see it?"
"No, i left it there so the world would make more sense"

Originally posted by Krabbus
My point:
A change in the gamemechanics should be implemented in both versions, because this is the foundation of Anarchy Online.

Do u really disagree at my point? [/B]

Your point is that Funcom is forbidden from running a business. They must instead run a socialized serivce to which all people are entitled to everything regardless of whether or not they spend money.

[______________Myrthe]

Originally posted by Krabbus
My point:
A change in the gamemechanics should be implemented in both versions, because this is the foundation of Anarchy Online.

Do u really disagree at my point? [/B]

Yes actually I do disagree...I am unsure if you have played other mmorpg's or not, but most of us have. I will use EQ as an example since it is supposedly the most popular mmorpg. I played EQ for a long time, then they release the Ruins of Kunark expansion, there was a huge change in game mechanics with that patch...they raised the level cap. You only got this advantage if you bought the expansion. Then they release Scars of Velious, and it came with a bran new interface that dramatically increased playability. Once again, this was only availiable to those who bought the expansion. The last expansion EQ did, Shadows of Luclin, added horses for those that bought it, and yep you guessed it, it is only available to those that bought the expansion.

My Point?

Expansions almost always change game mechanics to some degree, and these changes are only available to those who buy the expansion. This may or may not give those that spend the money an advantage, it may or may not make their characters better than those who didn't spend the money, but guess what? You can chose to buy or not buy the expansion. I am almost positive that all of the major mmorpg's have added/changed game mechanics with expansions that were only available to those who bought the expansion (if I'm wrong on this correct me, I didn't play the other two, AC and UO, of the big three long enough to be 100% on this).

You can complain, you can say it isn't fair, you can say it isn't right, but it comes down to this simple fact.

This is how Funcom plans to do it, and it is their choice to make.
You have three choices:
1-Buy the expansion and enjoy the benefits
2-Don't buy the expansion and cope with having less than those that did buy it.
3-Quit

And the real beauty in this is that whatever choice you make won't change affect me in the least bit, nor will it affect Funcom's decision since most players understand this is how expansions work and won't even realize there is something they could complain about.

-Xasi

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Krabbus
I really like this game but I will not pay extra money to FC to be equal to other players, so please put Shadowland on another dimension. Can I please have any comments from u Cosmik or Cz ????

The sheer fact that you are asking the forum moderators for comments to your anti-Funcom thread is both sad and insulting, and I don't even work for the company.

Funcom is running a business. An expansion pack for a game is a great way to generate more income while adding content to the game. But in order to accomplish this, customers need incentive to buy it, and new items/playfields is a great way to do this.

I find it difficult to believe that donating $40 (or whatever the price) to the company that puts out a product you both like and enjoy is going to break your bank account, not to mention they in-turn give you more content and a whole new realm to explore with new graphics and new items. I think that is entirely reasonable. I would even pay $20/mo instead of the $10 I pay now. That's how much I appreciate the company, regardless of their horrible (but slowly getting better) customer service.

I would pay $100 for the expansion just to support the company and say "Thank you" for putting out such a fun game. I would also want to say "I'm sorry" for all their cheap customers who refuse to support them 100% in their game and want everything for free and end up cancelling their accounts if they don't get their way. Expansion packs cost money (salaries) to develop. They're trying their best. Give them a break.

--Tsk

[Krabbus]

I can say that I have plenty of money, but that isn't the point!!!!

If the gamemechanics only change for SL Players will these players have benefits over normal AO players and this is making the game even more unbalanced than the old ELLTS scopes.

Let me say it in this way, if the statement above is true you are forced to pay for the expansion to be able to PvP with SL Players at all, since they can spesialize into skills that will make them survive the battle.


My point is that you are FORCED to buy it if the fundamental gamemechanics change like you are saying.

/me out

[______________Barron]

Krabbus, this is the way MMORPGs are now..

Expansions add new and wonderous things to the game..if you dont like it, dont buy it.

No one is asking you to pay more per month to play, just an additional hit of $20-30...

It wont do you or anyone else any good to whine about it, cause that's just the way things are....

Either deal with it or pack it up...cause that's how it's gonna be.

[BoomDoom]

Listen.

IF you feel that you MUST be able to compete with everyone in the game then you HAVE to acquire the same options they have. You're not being forced to buy the thing. What is happening however is that you refuse to accept being at what you perceive to be a disadvantage while at the same time refusing to rectify this disadvantage by purchasing the options you're complaining not to have.

Quite frankly, that's moronic.

[Isgrimnur]

Originally posted by Krabbus
I can say that I have plenty of money, but that isn't the point!!!!

If the gamemechanics only change for SL Players will these players have benefits over normal AO players and this is making the game even more unbalanced than the old ELLTS scopes.

Let me say it in this way, if the statement above is true you are forced to pay for the expansion to be able to PvP with SL Players at all, since they can spesialize into skills that will make them survive the battle.


My point is that you are FORCED to buy it if the fundamental gamemechanics change like you are saying.

/me out

Your an idiot. I think I am an idiot for reading through so many of your stupid posts. Unbelievable. Stop being such a dork. 99% of people will buy that expansion pack. Comparing changes to ELLTS is stupid. Those who started in the game earlier of course have advantages...sunburst IIIs, Freedom Arms pistols, easy to get 1k boards etc etc. Those who buy the expansion will get some advantage. As for gameplay changes READ THE DAMN QUOTE. My god...look in the mirror and tell me why DUMBA$$ is stamped on your forehead!

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Canidy
Your an idiot.

Thanks I'm really looking up to you... there is few ppl that can put it out so correctly, and take a look at the argumentation, really well said.

I think I am an idiot for reading through so many of your stupid posts. Unbelievable. Stop being such a dork.

I'm not a dork, just telling what it will do when u don't buy the expansion pack - if that's being a dork I really don't want to tell what I think about your statement.

99% of people will buy that expansion pack. Comparing changes to ELLTS is stupid. Those who started in the game earlier of course have advantages...sunburst IIIs, Freedom Arms pistols, easy to get 1k boards etc etc. Those who buy the expansion will get some advantage.

You really can't say that everyone is going to buy the SL pack, and I don't think you should pay extra money for a redesign of a basic gamemechanic, that's why we are paying the monthly fee. We are not paying only for bug-fixed u know...

As for gameplay changes READ THE DAMN QUOTE. My god...look in the mirror and tell me why DUMBA$$ is stamped on your forehead!

If changes in gamemechanic will implemented in both versions then I wish the Shadowland Expansion Pack more than welcome

There are many that struggle of paying the monthly fee and the cost of the internet connection, so I want those ppl to have the same starting point as other players - and a change in the skilldesign will not give they same advantage.


This is why I want an offical respons from Cosmik or Cz to clear up this, so again, will changes in the fundamental gamemechanic be implemented in both versions or???

[Mick]

Canidy: Please don't hold back...tell us how you *really* feel

But seriously...

Krabbus: after reading all your posts, it' boils down to this, and the choice is entirely yours, no one is "forcing" you to do anything.

1) Status quo, pay your monthly fee, forego the expansion and continue playing the way you do today. Note that this will mean you will most likely be weaker than other players of your level that purchased the expansion and have all the attendant advantages available *only* with the expansion.

2) Pony up for the expansion, enjoy all the new content and improvements in game mechanics, and be on par with all the other players (except you'll be most likely stronger than those that picked option 1).

3) Decide the expansion is not worth the $$ Funcom is asking, and that the inequities you perceive exist between the expansion and the non-expansion characters will make the game unplayable for you. At that point it would most likely be wise to cancel your account.

Funcom is not (and cannot!) force you into a decision, it is entirely up to you. Personally, I will choose option 2, as will most people playing the game I'm sure. If you anticipate option 3 will be your choice, then you might save yourself some money by cancelling now and play out the remainder of your subscription if you so desire. You can always change your mind later and reactivate your subscription...they keep your character backed up for several months after cancellation if I remember properly.

Thanks for reading.

[_______________Ranor]

Don't feed the troll!

[Krabbus]

Originally posted by Mick
Krabbus: after reading all your posts, it' boils down to this, and the choice is entirely yours, no one is "forcing" you to do anything.

1) Status quo, pay your monthly fee, forego the expansion and continue playing the way you do today. Note that this will mean you will most likely be weaker than other players of your level that purchased the expansion and have all the attendant advantages available *only* with the expansion.

2) Pony up for the expansion, enjoy all the new content and improvements in game mechanics, and be on par with all the other players (except you'll be most likely stronger than those that picked option 1).

3) Decide the expansion is not worth the $$ Funcom is asking, and that the inequities you perceive exist between the expansion and the non-expansion characters will make the game unplayable for you. At that point it would most likely be wise to cancel your account.

Funcom is not (and cannot!) force you into a decision, it is entirely up to you. Personally, I will choose option 2, as will most people playing the game I'm sure. If you anticipate option 3 will be your choice, then you might save yourself some money by cancelling now and play out the remainder of your subscription if you so desire. You can always change your mind later and reactivate your subscription...they keep your character backed up for several months after cancellation if I remember properly.

Thanks for reading.

Thanks for a mature repy It's few of those these days... hehe...

That's my point, u have to pay for the expansion pack if u want the same advantages in the gamemechanics, which I think is wrong since we are paying a monthly fee.

That kind of changes in the gamestructure should be implemented in all versions of AO - not talking about new playfields and items - but how the game works

[______________Malmar]

Originally posted by Mick
Canidy: Please don't hold back...tell us how you *really* feel

But seriously...

Krabbus: after reading all your posts, it' boils down to this, and the choice is entirely yours, no one is "forcing" you to do anything.

Thanks for reading.

Well said!! Krabbus make your choice ... and live with it!

[Kuro]

Just a quick question:

Did anyone consider that any new items found only in the Shadowland's expansion may only work in the Shadowlands? I mean, just because I might buy the expansion pack doesn't mean I get to walk around O1E with horns and flames

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Krabbus
Let me say it in this way, if the statement above is true you are forced to pay for the expansion to be able to PvP with SL Players at all, since they can spesialize into skills that will make them survive the battle.

For what its worth, Diablo II is much worse than the way Funcom is doing it. Those who have not purchased the DII expansion pack may not play with those using expansion characters. They didn't force anyone to get the expansion, but since most people did, fewer people are on the "no expansion" dimension, creating more incentive for people to upgrade.

You can be as stubborn as you want saying "I think it's wrong that Funcom is making us pay..." til you're blue in the face, but you just need to realize that this is just how it is, and that YOU CANNOT CHANGE THIS. This is how every MMORPG on the market handles expansion packs.

We can only hope you stop arguing just for the sake of arguing and sit down and shut up Like people before me have said, make your decision and stick to it -- no need to ***** about it on the forums.

Regards,

--Tsk

[ryack]

I agree that if the game mechanics are changed to much then these changes should also be implemented for the players that are not buying the expansion. They can't balance the game as it is now, how will they ever be able to balance it when they have two sets of rules? Or do you want it to be a buy it or die expansion?

I am not talking about items, new zones, raising of level caps or new races to play. These should all be available to expansion only players.
But a fundemental change to the game should be implemented for all. Otherwise you are just trying to get a bit of extra cash out of your subscribers.

BTW UO did it differently. Their 3rd dawn expansion had new graphics, new items and a new zone. The graphics and zone were available to those that had the expansion. The items were available to all. But if you didn't have the expansion you saw old graphics (ie red horses for a new animal type).

Anyway when i am tired of AO or when the expansion comes out i will be cancelling my account. I don not like being forced to buy something. So it's bye bye subscription.

[Fobik]

Noone is forcing you to buy anything, to say that someone who pays 20 bucks more then you should only be equal to you makes my head hurt. What kind of logic is this? I work out 7 days a week there for the ppl that work out 1 day a week should be at the same level as me, is basicly what you are saying... think about that.

(quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
99% of people will buy that expansion pack. Comparing changes to ELLTS is stupid. Those who started in the game earlier of course have advantages...sunburst IIIs, Freedom Arms pistols, easy to get 1k boards etc etc. Those who buy the expansion will get some advantage.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You really can't say that everyone is going to buy the SL pack, and I don't think you should pay extra money for a redesign of a basic gamemechanic, that's why we are paying the monthly fee. We are not paying only for bug-fixed u know... )

lol think about what you said there... he sais 99% of the people will buy it... you say everyone wont buy it... well did you both say the same thing? no not everyone will buy it but 99% is a good guess(btw if you are not good at math 100% would be everyone).

For your own good stop posting, you are not making your self sound very intelligent