I think all the current Neos should gather up in an arena and just go at it for a few hours to see what happens with titles
I think all the current Neos should gather up in an arena and just go at it for a few hours to see what happens with titles
Animacion 160 Opi Enforcer equipment
Takima 166 Trader
Proud member of First Order for 3 years and going.
"All things around you grow stonger from your spilled blood. Now, you grow stronger from theirs."
Cosmik please answer this. How does the scoring system apply to /terminate and being teamed.Originally posted by Cosmik
Ok, in regards to people claiming they gained or lost titles after fighting someone with a big difference in PvP titles, or gaining titles a while after fighting -
From what Cz and myself have checked (in game, and the code itself), the PvP ranking system is looking pretty good, but please do lets us know about these cases. Preferably I would like to know -
Who killed who?
What titles did you gain or lose?
When did you get the title? (What is the date you got title? Got the title after zoning? Got the title 3 hours after killing someone? etc)
...and so on
Basically, if you think something is odd, try and remember as much as you can and let me know. We'll look into it, but the more information you have, the better.
Thanks.
I just like to add that when people are around 170++ they tend to get quite a few kills from those closer to 100ish. Not everyone, just many.Originally posted by Chakacahn
Btw... I dont care about titles.
Most of titleholder are afraid to lose their titles and you see the most waiting in 75% zone for a poor and lonely guy in 0/25% zone. If their chances seem to be good, they attack, if not they dont attack and wait for an other one...
Many high titleholders mean they are good PvPer... "Hey, Im Neophyte, I must be good... look at my title"
But the kind of PvP they do is like a bad joke.. they never attack deep red enemies unless they are teamed and can outnumber the opponent. If you see them standing in arena or PvP zone you can bet there is no one around who could beat them, but when a higher lvl comes along and in sight they move their ass out of the dangerous zone...
They never PvP w/o a backdoor where they can zone out if it gets too hard...
They only call out a duel when their chances are good, never when the chances are less...
But I guess that isnt their own fault... there is nothing to fight for, no valuable goals, no areas to conquer... only titles to gain. So the big question is: "Why shall I pvp when the only thing to win is a ridiculous title?" Just for the fun of it? Yes, but its like all other things in life... you need a goal. And the only goal for PvP in game is a title and the only way to get a higher title is the way which I described above...
Maybe Im totally wrong, but I bet more than 75% of all PvP works like that.
I read an interesting post PvP Thoughts & Suggestions and I guess there are some suggestions which could solve the lack of fun in PvP.
This is actually exactly how it was, when they removed mission running I "only" had grey people around me, we were so few that could team so was hard to organize anything.Originally posted by Aphrodite
Thats like not being able to lvl until everyone is the same lvl as you, then you can progress. extreme analogy.
It took afew weeks before anyone of the high lvls was back in leveling, many quit so we got even fewer.
If you compare that to now when everyone and their mother is lvl 150 and leveling is extremly fast cuz it's so easy to find groups(alot more xp/mob too)
Will be same with titles, more and more will get higher title, so it will be easier to get higher title for everyone cuz more titled players to kiil.
How I think it is supposed to work.
Along time ago I read how the Chess rating system worked. As I recall, if two players have a 100 point difference in rating, it indicates that higher rated player wins approximately 2/3 (one standard deviation) of the games.
This is why, if the higher rated player wins, the modifier must be *subtracted*. If the lower rated player wins, the modifier is *added*.
Here's an example. Assume A is rated 1600 and B is rated 1500. A wins two games then B wins the next game. (For the sake of argument, ignore the 100 point rule, which I'm pretty sure does not exist in the chess rating system.) (Also, I round off my calculations for simplicity.)
Start A=1600 B=1500
Game 1 (A wins) A=1612 B=1488 (16-0.04*100=12)
Game 2 (A wins) A=1623 B=1477 (16-0.04*124=11)
Game 3 (B wins) A=1601 B=1499 (16+0.04*146=22)
For games 1 and 2, the modifier is subtracted from the base. So A gains and B loses 12 points for game 1 and 11 points for game 2.
But after game 3, since B, the lower rater player wins, the modifier is *added*. So A loses 22 and B gains 22.
The result is that A and B end up with nearly the ratings they began with. This is the way it is supposed to work, as I understand it.
Without the 100 point rule, if the higher rated player's rating was 400 greater than the lower, the rating change would be 0 if the higher rated player wins. If the lower rated player wins, the change would be 32.
Seems to me that a rule that the rating change must be positive would be better than the rather arbitrary seeming 100 point rule.
Hope this helps.
-Goober3
HMmmmmm........
HMMmmmm...
I dont quite understand why peeps are PvPing.... why???
And i dont understand that Rank System above... Explain plz.
-Dafia
Many PvP cuz it's fun, never exactly the same and it's something difrent from doing missions.Originally posted by Dafia
HMMmmmm...
I dont quite understand why peeps are PvPing.... why???
And i dont understand that Rank System above... Explain plz.
-Dafia
Other PvP cuz they want title.
I think I PvP for both reasons, I don't care if I lose title, but it would rock to be Grandmaster Azzazzimon
That will be over my dead body. Hrm, wait I didn't say that.Originally posted by Azzazzimon
I think I PvP for both reasons, I don't care if I lose title, but it would rock to be Grandmaster Azzazzimon
~Lone
The thing I was most confused about was who gets the negative and who gets the positive factor when adding to the base_change.
After a lot of thinking and reworking it, I can only come up with this as the way it must work to be fair. If it's not correct, then I think it's wrong, but it would be nice to have some confirmation on whether this is how it works or not. The theory works on the basis -
* If you Win, the Rating difference added to your base_change points is calculated as Their PvP Rating minus Your PvP rating. This is added to your PvP rating (and subtracted from their rating).
* If you Lose, the Rating difference added to your base_change points is calculated as Your PvP Rating minus Their PvP rating. This is subtracted from your PvP rating (and added to their rating).
What this means is that if the higher rating pvp'er wins, the amount of change will be small, and if the lower wins the amount of change is big.
Here's an example -
Player1 (1500) vs. Player2 (1400)
If Player1 wins -
Change will be (1400 - 1500 * 0.04) + 16 = 12
Player1 gets 12
Player2 loses 12
If Player2 wins -
Change will be (1500 - 1400 * 0.04) + 16 = 20
Player1 loses 20
Player2 gets 20
This is the only way it seems fair, in that the higher level player will go up a small amount for beating a lower level player, but lose a lot for losing to a low level player, and conversely a lower level will go up a lot for beating higher level, but lose less for losing to a higher level.
This may have already been covered in others, but I find it very confusing on the whole - I don't think this has been verified by Cz or Cosmik, and it would be good to get a confirmation on if this is how it works.
As for the numbers actually working (JEB's research) - I really think we need an offiical comment on that too... too many things don't quite work out yet.
"I'm going to kill you." "You're going to kill us?" "No, no I'm not, I'm just kidding."
Weeee!!!
I just wanna know... mayby it sayes ther. im not sure.. but how meany points do you gain from killing another nontittled?..
Is there anyone whois more that Novice tittlet??
Hang on
Cz and Cosmic log in, Cz then kills Cosmic.
Does this prove that Cz is BETTER than Cosmic, enquiring minds want to know
*tongue firmly in cheek*
I usually don't comment to pvp related topics, because its not really my field of expertise (according to other ppl, my expertise is spionage, subversion, sabotage and generally harassing ppl =P) nor do i really care about a stupid imbalanced 'gank other ppl' system.
BUT i'm 100% certain that what Cz/Cosmik said is pure bull****. The 100 pt difference lock MIGHT apply, if the higher one kills a lower one (and thats the reason why no one is above Neopythe yet) but it certainly doesn't work properly the other way (But after all we're talking Funcom here, 'Bugs are our field of expertise').
If the system works that way .. it NEEDS an overhaul. And you NEED to add a Team pvp experience. And while you're at it .. implement a function to display to display your current Points AND add a message to the pvp kill message to display the amount of points lost/gained, that would make it much easier to check.
You CSR ppl should really look deeper into matters and come up with decent explanations before posting insides of game mechanics.
-Needlz, Does the 100 year old oak care if the pigs rub on it? Guess Not.
*Volunteers as Tester*
Hi all,
why don't we go along with the suggestion someone made and test this? All we need is a few low-level chars who have never PVPed, so they can be sure that their rating is 1300.
I've got a Lvl 6 MA and I'd volunteer to test this.
I don't even mind standing there and getting myself killed 10 or more times. I'm usually no PvPer, but since some of my guildies are and would like to know, I'd be very glad to help test this out.
If interested send me a /tell, either to Sunamun (my main) or else Taneya (Lvl 6 MA).
Im not a pvp'er either but I just had a thought regarding ppl teaming in pvp that I would like to post.
I will just use a number here, 12 to make it easy (too lazy to use the formula to calc.)
add up all the pvppoints of all the players in the team and divide it with the number of players in the team. The team then works as one person in the calculations.
a team of 6 fights a single person
team wins: each player get 12/6 points and the single guy looses 12
single guy wins: he gets 12*6 points and each player in the team looses 12 points.
a team of 6 fights another team of 4
team of 6 wins: each player get (12*4)/6
team of 4 wins: each player get (12*6)/4
Well.. somthing like that. I hope Im not to fuzzy ;P
Originally posted by Cosmik
There was a possible issue with the PvP formula, and that is why it took as long as it did to get it out - we double and triple-checked it to make sure this issue did not exist, and I'm glad to say it doesn't
..we double and triple-checked it to make sure this issue did not exist, and I'm glad to say it doesn't..
Does this mean it DID exist but DOESNT anymore cause they fixed it?
I would like to see an other ranking system, where all character drop points when they die in PvP.
An example, and I take my soldier and my MA for this:
Soldier (untitled)
Lvl 117 = 117 x 3 = 351 pts.
Attackrate 706 = 71 x 3 = 213 pts.
Defenserate 500 = 50 x 3 = 150 pts.
Ql Weapon 195 = 195 pts.
avg. Ql Armor 150 = 150 pts.
avg. Ql Implants 115 = 115 pts.
Profession modifier: i.e 1.2 (a modifier to balance the advantages or disadvantages of the professions in PvP)
Titlebonus: Untitled +0%
When he dies in PvP he drops:
(351 + 213 + 150 + 195 + 150 + 115) x 1.2 x 1.0 = 1409 pts.
and here an untwinked soldier with no imps and not overequipped:
(351 + 177 + 120 + 130 + 120 + 0) x 1.2 x 1.0 = 1078 pts.
Martial Artist (Freshman)
Lvl 132 = 132 x 3 = 396 pts.
Attackrate 821 = 82 x 3 = 246 pts.
Defenserate 826 = 83 x 3 = 249 pts.
Ql Weapon 132 = 132 pts. (Fist = Lvl of character)
additional Weapon (or MA attack) Ql 164 = 164 pts.
avg. Ql Armor 130 = 130 pts.
avg. Ql Implants 150 = 150 pts.
Profession modifier: i.e 1.0
Titlebonus: Freshman +10% (each higher title 10% more)
When he dies in PvP he drops:
(396 + 246+ 249 + 132 + 164 + 130 + 150) x 1.0 x 1.1 = 1614 pts.
Ok, if the soldier wins against the MA, he gets 1614 pts and the MA loses 1614.
If the MA wins against the soldier, he gets 1409 pts. and the soldier loses 1409.
You can only lose or gain points when you fight against colored characters (deep green - red). Ok, a lvl 200 can always fight against a lvl 75 and would probably win, but he would not get any points and the lvl 75 would not lose any.
With this system a twinked character with high pvp title would drop more points than a normal untwinked character.
So now a lvl 2 character will drop only a few points and you wont get much from him if you kill him... so what would be a good definition for the rankingsystem now? If you say each 100 pts for the next rank, you would need around 10 kills at lvl 2 for 1 rank, but you will gain 16 ranks at lvl 130...
Ok, we need an other system...
What about this:
For the first rank you need 10x the points of your own and in case of my soldier 1409 x 10 for Freshman, 1550 x 20 for Rookie, 1690 x 30 for Apprentice and so on... (remember the points increase with 10% each rank and each title should be more difficult to gain than the former)
An example for this:
My Soldier would need 1409 x 10 + 1550 x 20 + 1690 x 30 = 95790 pts for Apprentice
Hm... but a lvl 2 soldier with maybe 50 base points as an untitled would only need 50 x 10 + 55 x 20 + 60 x 30 = 3400
Hey and you know the case where the little Apprentice decides to level and now he is a lvl 117 Apprentice who has gained his rank as lvl 2 but shows his title as a supadupa pvper.
In the case of my example and imagine this lvl 2 would be the lvl 117 now he has still his 3400 pts. but he needs now 95790 pts. for Apprentice. You cant take your tiltle with you the level higher and higher without pvping... you will lose your title each time you gets stronger if you dont pvp. You cant gain a Grandmaster title at lvl 2 and hope you will wear it at lvl 200...
Ok, I guess I forgot some details but I would like to see a system like this which depend on the real strength of a character and his opponents.
Any other suggestions?
Last edited by Zagareth; May 29th, 2002 at 23:20:04.
Holy sh1t, a system that makes sense! Who the hell would have thought such a thing existed? Too bad it's never going to be used, FUncom would never do anything rational like that.Originally posted by Chakacahn
I would like to see an other ranking system, where all character drop points when they die in PvP.
An example, and I take my soldier and my MA for this:
[snip]
'Balancing' Nanos Will Remain Imbalanced Vs. Old Nanos - Because We Said So!Originally posted by Whaambulance
Hi.
This is singlehandedly the stupidest post I have EVER read on these forums. Congradulations.
O Gaute, Gaute! Wherefore art thou Gaute?
Deny thy nerfs and refuse thy lame design decisions;
Or, if thou wilt not, be but on the forums,
And I'll no longer be a whiner.
Agreed...Originally posted by Aphrodite
I want to get higher because there is higher. But having my ability to get a higher title controled by the pace of others ability to gain titles is not right. Thats like not being able to lvl until everyone is the same lvl as you, then you can progress. extreme analogy.
And Chakacahn, regarding your 'system':
What about QL Special armor? (DeCranums Corona MKII, Heavily Padded Overcoat)
That means most highlvl PvP'ers wont loose much since we all wear it =)
SS - Grandmaster of Fall Damage
Property of the Devil
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for anyone drops to zero
I dont have all details listed which are responsible for the strength and power of a character. This is just an example how it could work. And I guess its impossible to get the real strength only with the values for Armor, Weapons, Lvl and so on... it depends on more than the listed things above.Originally posted by SuperSolid
Agreed...
And Chakacahn, regarding your 'system':
What about QL Special armor? (DeCranums Corona MKII, Heavily Padded Overcoat)
That means most highlvl PvP'ers wont loose much since we all wear it =)
Special stuff is not always more powerfull than normal stuff and as for the MK II Armor: Sure it adds 140 to life and 7 NCU each piece, but it has a lack in AC compared with a ql200 armor.
And what I also dont have listed are pets, nanoattacks, HPs and outsidebuffs. I dont want to make it too complicated, but if such a system would come in future, all these things should be calculated in a formula for the real strength of a character. I just wanna show a way how it could work... nothing else.
How can I see my "rating in pvp"
For example: 1400 skill...
Is it a command for it?...
Posting Permissions
