How to kill a game - Remove Twinking/OEing

[_________________Mor]

Funcom just needs to put the patch on already I think. Let people adjust

[_______________Chill]

Originally posted by SypherBoy
Dang, I got into this one too late I think. But here's my 2 creds...

Getting rid of twinking/OEing doesn't kill a game. It kills it for the twinkers/OEers, yes. But it doesn't kill a game. Unless you can show some hard facts to the contrary, I just don't believe it.

What kills a game, in my opinion, is little to no content. A player has done everything he can do and he's looking for more. Since there's no new high end stuff being put into the game, the player decided to make a new character. If he's lazy, he'll equip the new character will as much stuff as he can. If the game doesn't allow him to do that, then he quits.

I couldn't agree more, very well said

[ethernal3]

Originally posted by Lodrin-Omni


I know it sounds silly, but I have a lot of fun busting out calculators and nano nanny, treatment stepping implants, finding exactly how much extra skill i can milk at my current level and whether or not i can use that next lvl nano, etc. I know there are other people like me.

Amen.



The entire issue here is that there is nothing in the high level game. Creating an alt-twink, whether for PvP or leveling, is the only thing that makes it fun. If you have a level 200 main, damn right your alt should be powerful. You've played the game. You've learned the game. You've mastered the game.
~Chris

[______________Jennii]

This thread was entertaining. Your not going to change thier minds.

The OE patch was a good compromise for those who wanted, and didn't want over equiping. It keeps that lvl 27 Enforcer from wanting to equip a QL 97 Hammer, because the Hammer will not be as effective. I have a lowbie enforcer and thought I was doing pretty well when I had a QL 65 beam equiped at level 27.


I like the 20% OE rule. I like to PVP, have a couple of lower level characters, and do not care to spend the hours it takes to shoehorn imlants, equip a weapon 3 times thier level, then cap thier level and sit at the arena to kill anyone around thier level, just to get a title. I do, however, over equip.

I think this OE patch will piss off only this very small group of mega-twinkers, and let the rest of us semi-twinks come have fun with PVP based on our skills and tactics, and not based on how wedging in the uber equipment and spending millions of creds.

What was the final straw for me was a lvl 37 Agent i knew, that had a 157 OET rifle/shotgun hybrid equiped.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Celebrant
The problem I see is that Funcom has forced every knowledgable player to overequip their equipment. Take a look at the health and ac's of every monster you've ever fought. If you fight a monster that's the same breed and profession as you, the monster will ALWAYS have more health than you, like 30-40% more or something. The monster will ALWAYS have more AC's than you as well. So in order to get an advantage, you really need to overequip your weapons and armor. Try fighting a yellow con monster with nano's, weapons and armor below or equal to your level, and you'll find it's pretty damn hard to do. Try PvP'ing in stuff equal to your level, you'll die faster than you will to monsters. Anyway, once 14.2 comes around I'll get to put all my ips into stamina and body development to max my health, cause lord knows I'll need it.

In any game that allows for groups of players to battle a single mob, the mob has always had an advantage in attributes to make up for it's lack of intelligence.

Claiming to need to get the advantage by overequipping is a weak arguement at best. Situations defined as "overequipped" by the 14.2 rules barely exist past level 120 or so, except in the most extreme cases (which is mostly among the pet professions at the moment). What the playerbase needs to realize, I think, is there are some items in AO that can only be used by cooperating with other players. Some areas that can only be safely visited when in a team. Some mobs players were not meant to face alone at certain levels. Go figure...cooperation in a Massively Multiplayer Online Game.

And yes, I know AO was advertised with the ability to solo all the way to level 200. Guess what? For that to work in any game, you'll have to do it at the pace the designers want you to.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Megabio



Amen.



The entire issue here is that there is nothing in the high level game. Creating an alt-twink, whether for PvP or leveling, is the only thing that makes it fun. If you have a level 200 main, damn right your alt should be powerful. You've played the game. You've learned the game. You've mastered the game.
~Chris

Let me ask you something. What did people do in EQ when they reached level 50, before Verant raised the level cap? They created a different character of a different class and went through the same content with different abilities. Or they left.

[______________Kwoung]

Originally posted by Kuroshio
Let me ask you something. What did people do in EQ when they reached level 50, before Verant raised the level cap? They created a different character of a different class and went through the same content with different abilities. Or they left.

Interesting you mention EQ, a game where most people stayed for a very long time and massive twinking of alts was allowed, unlike DAOC, where over equiping was actively coded against and everyone left.

As far as lack of content, well it was mentioned above already, twinking=content to many, many players, many do not even realize they are doing it and that is what is making their alt so enjoyable for them.

Pretty much all I see above is PvP issues that support limiting peoples power, which basically just goes back to what I mentioned already. It is impossible to balance a PvM game and keep the long term fun for people if character alterations and limitations keep being added because of PvP. PvP issues are responsible for more nerfs than pretty much any other reason and nerfs NEVER add fun to a game.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Flann


Interesting you mention EQ, a game where most people stayed for a very long time and massive twinking of alts was allowed, unlike DAOC, where over equiping was actively coded against and everyone left.

First, let's expose the entire truth here. Everyone that did not like the equipping routines at DAoC may have left. But apparently that still left them enough active subscribers to break the 200k mark according to recent reports. To my knowledge, and I admit to knowing absolutely nothing about DAoC except that it has friggin elves, FC proposed equipment routines are nowhere near as restrictive in terms of actual ability to use equipment (ie: the most limiting factor is the player's choice about what they want to equip). And the business side of Funcom has to pay attention to that factor, which would make it appear that people are exaggerating the effect of restricting equipment has on playerbase.

Originally posted by Flann

As far as lack of content, well it was mentioned above already, twinking=content to many, many players, many do not even realize they are doing it and that is what is making their alt so enjoyable for them.

Pretty much all I see above is PvP issues that support limiting peoples power, which basically just goes back to what I mentioned already. It is impossible to balance a PvM game and keep the long term fun for people if character alterations and limitations keep being added because of PvP. PvP issues are responsible for more nerfs than pretty much any other reason and nerfs NEVER add fun to a game.

I can give you a couple gamewide reasons for limiting OE. It has a negative effect on item availibility and game economy at the levels where credits mean the most. And it has had an adverse affect on people's willingness to team at higher levels, where it no longer exists.

A completely new player cannot overequip without assistance from someone else. They cannot aquire the items to overequip. To overequip an item means taking on content beyond the ability of a normally equipped player to survive. They cannot aquire the credits to purchase the items to overequip. The ease of aquiring the items for twinks who mow through content geared for normal players and the need to keep receiving credits greater than that of their level to remain overequipped has killed the player to player market on items. The people that support overequipping cannot simply dismiss the new player factor by saying "then they need to make friends". Nor can the players that support overequipping because it's their version of fun demand the game be created around the need to have a twink character to enjoy it. All games exist on both gaining NEW players, who may not have friends here and cannot be expected to learn the game while depending on gaining high level friends at the same time, along with retaining as many current subscribers as possible.

Now regarding the lack of high level content, that's something that appears over time. FC may have underestimated the speed at which people would need that high level content and are now trying to play catch up. But again, we have to look at other games for comparison. How long before the Planes appeared in EQ? How long before teaming became an actual requirement compared to an option? AO does need high level content, no arguement from me. But the quickest way to get that is to demand more ingame events, because it's easier to create a story than it is to create a dungeon (tried my hand at map making for games like Quake before. My hats off to the people that put in the time to do it well and right).

[_________Lodrin-Omni]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


I can give you a couple gamewide reasons for limiting OE. It has a negative effect on item availibility and game economy at the levels where credits mean the most. And it has had an adverse affect on people's willingness to team at higher levels, where it no longer exists.

A completely new player cannot overequip without assistance from someone else.

Now regarding the lack of high level content, that's something that appears over time. FC may have underestimated the speed at which people would need that high level content and are now trying to play catch up. But again, we have to look at other games for comparison. How long before the Planes appeared in EQ? How long before teaming became an actual requirement compared to an option? AO does need high level content, no arguement from me. But the quickest way to get that is to demand more ingame events, because it's easier to create a story than it is to create a dungeon (tried my hand at map making for games like Quake before. My hats off to the people that put in the time to do it well and right).

Man, that was such a BS post I don't even know where to start.

Anyone can overequip. Yes, new players too. All it takes is credits (ability) and websurfing (knowledge to use ability). How do you get credits? Blitzing. If my level 30 gimp doctor could blitz max easy missions wearing QL 15 metaplast and some cyber boots, anyone can. If you can't, well, you are just a poor game player. That's beyond the scope of the game.

Funcom has no real authority to preserve an economy of any sort. The economy will simply be what players want and what people will get them. Blitzing for max bad and max cash will net you enough credits to get you whatever you want, on cash rewards ALONE. Just takes time.

As for high level content, do you listen to the BS that's coming out of your mouth? Funcom overestimated the speed of progression? What on earth does that have to do whether there is high level content or not. NEWSFLASH, it should have been there BEFORE the game was released. EQ had content enough for players up to level 50, even without the planes. In EQ-speak, funcom shipped with 100% broken or non-existent quests, horrible camping grounds, and enough content to support people up to level 30ish. Over 11 months, the improvement has been marginal at best. There is no reason because this is an MMORPG it has the right to ship in an insufficent form.

Lastly, if it's so easy to make a story, why is it simply not there? There's no purpose in the world. It's not as simple as 'ask for more events.' Events in a dead world isn't going to constitute 'story.'

[Kuro]

Pretty weak arguements in an attempt to keep overequipping. Basically demanding that Funcom caters to your idea of fun (blitzing missions so I can earn credits so I can overequip so I can make a twink to finally have fun) while ignoring everyone else's idea of fun.

Originally posted by Lodrin-Omni

Man, that was such a BS post I don't even know where to start.

Anyone can overequip. Yes, new players too. All it takes is credits (ability) and websurfing (knowledge to use ability). How do you get credits? Blitzing. If my level 30 gimp doctor could blitz max easy missions wearing QL 15 metaplast and some cyber boots, anyone can. If you can't, well, you are just a poor game player. That's beyond the scope of the game.

And what about the players that...oh I don't know, just want to play the game? Anyone can mission blitz. It becomes easier to do so if you play a profession like crat, trader, or nt and use calm. So in order to have fun in AO playing a crat, trader, or NT is now a requirement? Because that's the simplest way to mission blitz for the credits I'd need to overequip in order to have fun. That, amigo, is BS.

Mind you're speaking to a person that has played a trader by choice (not because everyone suddenly thinks they're uber) for almost 6 months and an adventurer before that (leet form + bug in sneak = mobs completely oblivious to my presence even if I attacked them).

Originally posted by Lodrin-Omni

Funcom has no real authority to preserve an economy of any sort. The economy will simply be what players want and what people will get them. Blitzing for max bad and max cash will net you enough credits to get you whatever you want, on cash rewards ALONE. Just takes time.

Funcom is obligated to do everything short of nightly entering everyone's accounts and taking 50% of their credits to preserve the economy in the game. A game in which the economy has spun out of control is no fun as well. Ask anyone that's played a game where the economy has spun out of control. Or look at how much effort OSI put into attempting to keep UO's economy under control (at one point I believe they had an economist on staff specifically to help control item inflation) and the longevity of that game.

Originally posted by Lodrin-Omni

As for high level content, do you listen to the BS that's coming out of your mouth? Funcom overestimated the speed of progression? What on earth does that have to do whether there is high level content or not. NEWSFLASH, it should have been there BEFORE the game was released. EQ had content enough for players up to level 50, even without the planes. In EQ-speak, funcom shipped with 100% broken or non-existent quests, horrible camping grounds, and enough content to support people up to level 30ish. Over 11 months, the improvement has been marginal at best. There is no reason because this is an MMORPG it has the right to ship in an insufficent form.

Is this your first MMORPG? EQ had enough content for players up to level 50? EQ had hell levels to prevent them from getting there too quickly. Verant had to raise the level cap and put in content specifically tailored to the high level game through an expansion pack. EQ had tradeskills broken from implementation that required a player to visit them and prove to them in person that they were broken. UO shipped in a condition that prompted their customers to actually file (instead of flaming they will) a class action suit because it was impossible to play. Never mind the fact it's only took the 3 years to find a digestable solution for things as basic as "How do we prevent the gang ganking of players taking place everywhere. I say 'digestable' in the light that most people could swallow it but hated the taste. Asheron's Call, on the other hand, shipped with a couple of rabbits and goblinesque creatures for people to kill while they added content.

I'm not defending Funcom on the lack of high level content now. But they did overestimate how long it would take people to level and underestimate the number of bugs they'd have to work out. And if that's the reason high level content wasn't shipped with AO (which I didn't believe had anything to do with new bunnies to kill when AO 1st got my interest) then those facts have to be acknowledged.

Originally posted by Lodrin-Omni

Lastly, if it's so easy to make a story, why is it simply not there? There's no purpose in the world. It's not as simple as 'ask for more events.' Events in a dead world isn't going to constitute 'story.'

If you want a story you can read, I'd suggest a good bookstore. AO caught my interest because the story here was supposed to be dynamic and I could interact with it.

[_________Lodrin-Omni]

Kuro, I'm not asking Funcom to do anything with OE'ing. I am simply staying a fact that if you remove the replayability aspect of this game (which strongly depends on OE/twinking because of the lack of concrete difference between classes based on the IP system)... you will make AO less fun.

NT's don't make the best blitzers. Doctors, Fixers, and Soldiers do.

The economy in Funcom really doesn't exist well because it's not primarily player fueled. I have never actually tried to buy any armor or weapons from people, I either go to a store, or run a mission for them. EQ had a much more player dependant economy because you couldn't actually buy anything of value at stores.

I played EQ from 2 weeks after release till today. They had alot more content then FC does. All major zones were 95% complete, there were dungeons and hunting grounds well balanced up to 50. The fundamental difference was that EQ already had most building blocks in place, AO just has a tract of land leased. Sure, they put this empty waste of space zone like southern artery valley in the game... are they gonna finish it? No. They are working on an expansion pack. When EQ has stuff added, they are complementing existing content. When AO adds content, they are replacing nothingness with something.

Eq zones have meaning, there's some underlying purpose to why things are setup the way they are, why there are npc's there, quests related to the land, etc

AO has tracts of land with no-name npcs, some trees and ponds, and some horribly placed monsters.

It's a totally different relation. EQ was released at a much more complete stage, still more complete then AO is now.

[________________Mona]

Originally posted by Kuroshio
First, let's expose the entire truth here. Everyone that did not like the equipping routines at DAoC may have left. But apparently that still left them enough active subscribers to break the 200k mark according to recent reports.

Well, that doesn't say that the lack of over-equipping has a positive effect does it? I don't think so. But did it have a negative effect? You bet. I was in the same guild as Flann in DAoC and we tried to start alts to keep going because we had such a great guild. But the level grind simply killed our interest.

Originally posted by Kuroshio
To my knowledge, and I admit to knowing absolutely nothing about DAoC except that it has friggin elves, FC proposed equipment routines are nowhere near as restrictive in terms of actual ability to use equipment (ie: the most limiting factor is the player's choice about what they want to equip). And the business side of Funcom has to pay attention to that factor, which would make it appear that people are exaggerating the effect of restricting equipment has on playerbase.

I'll agree that at this point, it is still not too bad. We can argue till the cows come home about how bad or how fair the 20% rule is. But that is not Flann's original point. His original point is to warn FC about this TREND to balance the whole game base on PvP scenarios, specifically regarding the OE rule and its effect on some players. Granted, no one at this point can estimate the actual % of the players who will feel bummed about this and the % of players who will /cheer this change, if you never said anything, FC will never know. And I see that 50% of the posters here agree that killinig OEing kills part of the fun of the game for them.

Originally posted by Kuroshio
I can give you a couple gamewide reasons for limiting OE. It has a negative effect on item availibility and game economy at the levels where credits mean the most. And it has had an adverse affect on people's willingness to team at higher levels, where it no longer exists.

I don't get your first point there so please elaborate if you will. As to the second point, people's willingness to team really has too many factors affecting it, so I think you exagerated the effect of OE. Personally I team to just be with my friends. I am sure there are others who team to level fast or whatever. The ability to OE does not make me find soloing any more enjoyable if I have an option to team.

Originally posted by Kuroshio
A completely new player cannot overequip without assistance from someone else. ...

How long does a new player remain a new player? When they achieve lvl 50? 1 month? On top of that, a new player generally is appealed to the game for many other reasons to begin with so most likely they will stay till they are no longer a new player, whatever the definition is. Then what? I personally don't see making changes to appeal to new players should be FC's priority, even though they might think so. If they feel that a constant turnover of player base gives them better revenue, all the power to them. I have played the game for a mere two months and I can already see the end of it. Rolling an alt and playing it occasionally, going on the web to see what my character can squeez into,... does compose a considerable part of the fun for me. If FC believes that customers like me and Flann are only far and rare, all the power to them.

Originally posted by Kuroshio
Now regarding the lack of high level content, that's something that appears over time. FC may have underestimated the speed at which people would need that high level content and are now trying to play catch up. But again, we have to look at other games for comparison. How long before the Planes appeared in EQ? How long before teaming became an actual requirement compared to an option? AO does need high level content, no arguement from me. But the quickest way to get that is to demand more ingame events, because it's easier to create a story than it is to create a dungeon (tried my hand at map making for games like Quake before. My hats off to the people that put in the time to do it well and right).

Yeah I agree. Let's not be too harsh on them and give them some slack eh? Until the next game comes at least! The bottom line is, market competition is becoming fiercer everyday. You can't compare a game that was launched three years ago with a game that was launched 6 motnhs ago. Then for games in the future, like Star Wars Galaxy, success factors for them will be a lot different.

And Kuroshio, sorry I picked on your post. Actually the reason why is that I find your arguement to be reasonable and your opinion represents most of those who thinks that it is good or no big deal to going down the path of anti-twinking. So I thought I'd respond to that so I could bring out my point clearly.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Mona

Well, that doesn't say that the lack of over-equipping has a positive effect does it? I don't think so. But did it have a negative effect? You bet. I was in the same guild as Flann in DAoC and we tried to start alts to keep going because we had such a great guild. But the level grind simply killed our interest.

True enough on the positive effect. It'll remain to be seen. But on that particular point I was pointing out that attempting to justify anti-overequipping by how many people leave DAoC is impossible given just straight numbers. A 200k subscriber base will scream louder than people whispering "I left DAoC because everyone had to use the same sword"

Originally posted by Mona

I'll agree that at this point, it is still not too bad. We can argue till the cows come home about how bad or how fair the 20% rule is. But that is not Flann's original point. His original point is to warn FC about this TREND to balance the whole game base on PvP scenarios, specifically regarding the OE rule and its effect on some players. Granted, no one at this point can estimate the actual % of the players who will feel bummed about this and the % of players who will /cheer this change, if you never said anything, FC will never know. And I see that 50% of the posters here agree that killinig OEing kills part of the fun of the game for them.

If 50% of the posters here on the forums represented 50% of the entire playerbase, we'd either never get through reading a single subforum or we'd not be here.

Most people seem to agree the OE was put in solely to balance PvP. But to do that, we'd have to ignore Funcom's proven willingness to hard cap damage in an attempt to eliminate 1 shot kills and other nerfs that appear completely targetted at specific skills/abilities to balance PvP (Aimed shot, stun, burst, range, ect.). PvP definately played a factor. But I also believe that the unpredictability OE was causing when attempting to plan new content was another factor as well. Along with the other effects I noted.

Originally posted by Mona

I don't get your first point there so please elaborate if you will. As to the second point, people's willingness to team really has too many factors affecting it, so I think you exagerated the effect of OE. Personally I team to just be with my friends. I am sure there are others who team to level fast or whatever. The ability to OE does not make me find soloing any more enjoyable if I have an option to team.

On the teaming thing, the trend I've perceived is more psychological than anything else. AO is easy enough to solo as it stands without overequipping. Yes, you may have to do missions at 50% depending on your profession to solo. That's all that Funcom promised, the ability to do something solo. Not how quickly you could do it. But the twinks at lower levels are taking 75%-100% missions and thinking that will hold true the rest of their career in AO. It ends right about where you can equip a QL 200 item, which is much sooner than level 200. Then the rest of AO scales pushing people more towards teamwork to hold that pace they experienced solo at lower levels. Cosmik I believe posted elsewhere that those 'real mean' and 'ace' type mobs were actually around level 240 and that expecting to be able to solo them is unreasonable. But that's almost what people would have to do to maintain the pace set at lower levels.

Teaming is just now starting to become more interesting with team missions and boss mobs. But what was the initial response? 'They're too hard'. Sure they are if you set the team mission to 75% difficulty and try to brute force the mobs. Mobs reacted with higher aggro in a team mission and people complained the mobs were swarming them. Before that, crowd control was an option. Now it's a necessity to handle the missions and people complain.

Originally posted by Mona

How long does a new player remain a new player? When they achieve lvl 50? 1 month? On top of that, a new player generally is appealed to the game for many other reasons to begin with so most likely they will stay till they are no longer a new player, whatever the definition is. Then what? I personally don't see making changes to appeal to new players should be FC's priority, even though they might think so. If they feel that a constant turnover of player base gives them better revenue, all the power to them. I have played the game for a mere two months and I can already see the end of it. Rolling an alt and playing it occasionally, going on the web to see what my character can squeez into,... does compose a considerable part of the fun for me. If FC believes that customers like me and Flann are only far and rare, all the power to them.



Yeah I agree. Let's not be too harsh on them and give them some slack eh? Until the next game comes at least! The bottom line is, market competition is becoming fiercer everyday. You can't compare a game that was launched three years ago with a game that was launched 6 motnhs ago. Then for games in the future, like Star Wars Galaxy, success factors for them will be a lot different.

And Kuroshio, sorry I picked on your post. Actually the reason why is that I find your arguement to be reasonable and your opinion represents most of those who thinks that it is good or no big deal to going down the path of anti-twinking. So I thought I'd respond to that so I could bring out my point clearly.

I'll answer the rest tomorrow as it's time to head home and play AO instead of reading about playing it all day at work

And no problem picking on my post. Yours is a reasonable response compared to the "This sucks, I'm quitting" posts. And I have no problems with this type of response.

[______________Soccom]

And that is all it is

20% OE rule = good if more than 5% of the player base (guessing) actually PvP'd

I would rather see FC make everyone remove all items and put them back in using today's rules (no implant stepping/treatment exploits).

-There are people still playing AO with ql200 implants installed at lvl 100. (No point to fix this... they will lvl and the advantage gets less every level)
-There are people still playing AO with 2-5 implants in the same spot... all of which are much higher than they should be. Ever see a lvl125 agent summon the highest demon pet? I have... =(
-There are people with ql200 LLTSs in with 0 ip spent on EE/WS because of a bug.
-There are people in AO with over 200 NCU at lvl10 (Not possible today)
-There are people in AO with a weapon 10x their lvl (Not possible today)

Removing all weapons/ncu/armor/implants would be a better solution to the super twink killing newbs in the arena. People that are equiped in a fashion that isn't possible with todays rules are whats causing the biggest problem.
Lack of knowledge/money/friends to OE with today's rules doesn't seem very valid to me.

Oh well... I'm just glad i got the "making extremely twinked alts to have fun" part of AO out of my system. Wonder whats left. Oh i know PVP!
"Anyone want to help me raid Newland and kill some clanners?
.. oh wait.. we can't.. What about Home? "
"What do you mean there is this small pocket of 25% gas with tons of zoning and 75% zones right next to it? that seems lame, why is it called MMD?"

"Gas? Where can i buy a gas mask?"

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Irritated
And that is all it is

20% OE rule = good if more than 5% of the player base (guessing) actually PvP'd

I would rather see FC make everyone remove all items and put them back in using today's rules (no implant stepping/treatment exploits).

-There are people still playing AO with ql200 implants installed at lvl 100. (No point to fix this... they will lvl and the advantage gets less every level)
-There are people still playing AO with 2-5 implants in the same spot... all of which are much higher than they should be. Ever see a lvl125 agent summon the highest demon pet? I have... =(
-There are people with ql200 LLTSs in with 0 ip spent on EE/WS because of a bug.
-There are people in AO with over 200 NCU at lvl10 (Not possible today)
-There are people in AO with a weapon 10x their lvl (Not possible today)

Removing all weapons/ncu/armor/implants would be a better solution to the super twink killing newbs in the arena. People that are equiped in a fashion that isn't possible with todays rules are whats causing the biggest problem.
Lack of knowledge/money/friends to OE with today's rules doesn't seem very valid to me.

Oh well... I'm just glad i got the "making extremely twinked alts to have fun" part of AO out of my system. Wonder whats left. Oh i know PVP!
"Anyone want to help me raid Newland and kill some clanners?
.. oh wait.. we can't.. What about Home? "
"What do you mean there is this small pocket of 25% gas with tons of zoning and 75% zones right next to it? that seems lame, why is it called MMD?"

"Gas? Where can i buy a gas mask?"

Won't comment on the OE complaints. Okay, maybe one comment. I do think allowing OE to the degree it was before made balancing a nightmare in PvM and PvP as well.

As for PvP zones, I think more of an incentive to visit the zones that are entirely 25% would be better. Increase the accessibility and increase the rewards for missions in the areas. Perhaps increasing the mob loot in PvP zones.

[_________________Mor]

Ok first off, Funcom said players will be able to OE by 20%, meaning that OEing is *not* going anywhere.

Second, OEing is something that did need to be reduced. It will allow more people to compete in the battle between Omni and the Clans (PvP). Some players just didn't have the money, time, patience or friends to OE extreme enough to PvP. Meaning less PvPing because they couldnt (or wouldnt) become a OEing-uber-noleveling--pvptitled-ganking-character. In short, it gives more players the ability to compete, though the players able to be the best now, are going to be the best after patch 14.2 anyway IMO. At least more players can take part

Third, OEing for monsters is also a bad thing. Why should a player have to take forever to OE to a god-like-status, just to lose it as they level? More important is, why should they have too? The best thing for funcom to do is reduce OE (which they are in patch 14.2) then decrease the monsters/NPCs hps as needed.

[______________Kwoung]

Originally posted by Mor
More important is, why should they have too? The best thing for funcom to do is reduce OE (which they are in patch 14.2) then decrease the monsters/NPCs hps as needed.

Well thats the rub isn't it. Funcom said they already reduced the hitpoints on human type NPC's and funny enough, it still takes my MA Doc with maxed skill and all buffs from a MA, including SG, forever to kill one even level mob. That is not fun and it is even worst for Fixers, Adventurers and Agents.

So sure, if they reduce the hitpoints of all the mobs considerably so it does not take 5 minutes to kill just one, then the 20% limit might be fine. I seem to have read somewhere though, that Funcom has no intentions of further reducing the hitpoints or making the mobs any easier, with the exception of boss mobs in lower level team missions. So basically, over-equiping gives those with the skills, money, knowledge(generally those starting a secondary character) the option to remove the tedium of leveling their extra char to some extent. Like I said before, if a secondary char is as hard or close to as hard to level as a persons main was, most people will not make them and instead, move on to another game.

Since it was also mentioned above, as far as DAOC subscribership goes, many folks are on the 6 month plan at least, as were so many when this game was released. That does not mean that most, many or even half of them are still playing. I ran a guild of over 200 players in DAOC, I would say that 75% of the players quit the game. Most of those that stayed were basically the "Chat Players", who were level 30 4 months ago and are level 35 now, they play for the social aspect pretty much. Not that there is anything wrong with that, but it would seem to me that a game manufacturer would like to attract and keep more than one type of player in order to maximize their revenues.

[p00finger]

Originally posted by Nvrmore100

Twinking is dumb, and it completely ruins the fun for a lot of people. The people that twink remind me of the cheaters in the many FPS games I've played. You can't hack it as a average player, so you resort to cheating to get better instantly. What you don't realize is you make it less fun for everyone else.

I don't care about everyone else. OE'ing is part of the character building strategy. Your character sucks therefore I should suck? What the hell kinda logic is that? Perhaps you should learn from overequippers instead.

Forced Mediocrity? Sounds about right.


SWG

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Halfnelson


I don't care about everyone else. OE'ing is part of the character building strategy. Your character sucks therefore I should suck? What the hell kinda logic is that? Perhaps you should learn from overequippers instead.

Forced Mediocrity? Sounds about right.


SWG

Sorry, you share this world. It's not yours to control. So yes, within the established game mechanics, if everyone sucks so do you.

And as far as SWG goes, let me ask you something. Do you honestly believe that in Star Wars Galaxy Verant will:

1. Let you pick up a lightsaber and wield it without having the required skills?
2. Let you buff your Lightsaber skill once and keep the benefits of the buffed skill after the buff wears off?
3. Give a damn when you complain you wield a lightsaber like the novice you are because one time with a buff you wielded a lightsaber like a master?

/me is laughing too hard to continue...

[p00finger]

Originally posted by Kuroshio


Sorry, you share this world. It's not yours to control. So yes, within the established game mechanics, if everyone sucks so do you.


/me is laughing too hard to continue...

Well...these aren't established game mechanics. The OE patch is CHANGING the game mechanics because of simpletons that don't have the know-how or determination to get the maximum effectiveness out of there character allowed by the CURRENT established game mechanics.

BTW, who's comparing SWG to AO? Not me.

/shout Laugh it up, fuzzball!

SWG