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Thread: Dual Weilding has **NO** advantage! Funcom's MR changes ruined dual weilding!

  1. #1

    Dual Weilding has **NO** advantage! Funcom's MR changes ruined dual weilding!

    I posted this on another board, I wanted to get the word out to people.

    ----------

    Ok I just got done testing a varied number of pistols dual weilded including the BBI Faithful with my lowbie Advent. Here is what I found.

    - There is no damage varience whether your pistol is offhand or man hand. You do the same amount of damage.

    - A Damage round is never skipped while dual weilding. Your attack bars wait in limbo if the attack animation is already in use and shoots immediatly afterward. No shot is ever skipped. This is where Tetra is wrong.

    - Due to the attack animations holding up, especially the Phantom shots, you do NOT shoot 2x the amount of time in 30 seconds. You will never skip a round as Tetra said, but he was correct in saying you don't shoot twice as many times. For example, with 1 BBI Faithful I shot 8 times in 30 seconds. With 2 BBI Faithfuls I shot 13 times in 30 seconds. This would mean you get 1.5x damage using an offhand weapon of the same qlvl. I stand corrected. The faster pistols interestingly enough closed the gap slightly but I didn't get a chance to test them that much.

    So here is what doesn't make sense and should be brought to Funcoms attention immediatly.

    Problems with dual weilding:

    Dual weilding a same qlvl Pistol will give you about 1.5x damage output. Now, in every aspect of the game, you can't EVER dual weild the same qlvl pistol.

    Pistols damage is much lower then a 2h weapons damage. It is this way on purpose assuming you will make up for it in an offhand weapon.

    Since you offhand weapon is always many many qlvls below your main, you don't get the advantage of even 1.5x damage.

    The lower damage on pistols creates for more problems as the AC in mobs get higher. Pistols are attack rating dependant and have a hard time getting past the puny or min damage barriers.

    Due to AC and animation that stops pistols from firing, you will more then likely end up with 1x damage over time using pistols. What I mean by this is due to the slow down of attack and lower offhand damage output, you would do the same amount of damage as if you were weilding 1 pistol.

    Pistol damage is so puny for almost every pistol on the market, it would not be worth dual weilding them. You could get more damage from a 2h weapon.

    The changes to Multiranged were unfounded and creating such a high multi-req for all pistols is not only counterproductive, but it basically kills the entire line all together.

    ---------

    I'm shocked that it works like this, and that Funcom has let it go this far. I do apologize for giving out false information. I never tested it over a given amount of time. That's when the serious problems truely show.

  2. #2
    The reason that Mult Range sucks is FC decide they needed to suck, and now they suck.

    They did not like those Freedom Arms Sam I Am
    they did not like them in a fight
    they did not like them, wrong or right
    they did not like them for PvP
    they did not like them crits you see

  3. #3

    Exclamation

    Yet they didn't delete existing FA pistols. Go figure.

    I like them here, I like them there, I like Freedom Arms, Funcom-I-am-not-listening.

    PS Lucid, your view vs Tetra's aren't that different. Missed shots versus delayed shots, only difference is ammo used, they both mean the ROF is fubar'd.
    mercatura -ae f. [trade, traffic; merchandise]

    Moved off-world and found real tradeskills...along with many other things

  4. #4
    I dunno about that.. I had several FA 3927s, from QL 1-45, mysteriously disappear from their pack after they were removed from the loot tables/shops... :\

  5. #5

    Exclamation

    FAs have this nasty habit of turning into "unknown" items inside backpacks. If you take them out and zone, sometimes they turn back to FAs. Other times you can kiss them goodbye.

    Theres still FAs out there, trust me.

    To be honest, without crit buffs, the only thing they have going for them is the non-insane MR.
    mercatura -ae f. [trade, traffic; merchandise]

    Moved off-world and found real tradeskills...along with many other things

  6. #6
    Multi wield is fine. It's more damage for single hand weapons. Enough said, case closed.

  7. #7
    Originally posted by Mor
    Multi wield is fine. It's more damage for single hand weapons. Enough said, case closed.
    You don't read do you.

  8. #8
    Originally posted by Lucid Flow


    You don't read do you.
    Of course I do, I just believe it's a bunch of BS that's all.

    I tried to solo some mobs with and without duel wield. With it I could, without it I couldnt. It does help ALOT with damage over time. Case closed.

  9. #9

    the point

    The point isn't that dual weilding pistols adds NO damage. It does, obviously. the problem is that it adds very little damage for the amount of IP you have to invest continusly to keep an offhand weapon that's even 1/4 the QL of your main.

    For the same IP, you could take up 2h weapons, shotguns (way less IP here), or just about anything else; and get a much better damage return for the investment.

    FC went too far in nerfing pistols. Hopefully, some of the new things coming out for advents will help them with that problem. I've read in the advent forum about new pistols and dual weild buffs, as well as new advent pistols and 1he weapons coming out.

    Oh, and about Freedom Arms. They're coming back. I've found several on the test server since it went to the 14.2 patch. So if you want them, they're coming back (probably).

    Later
    Virind
    Virind: Level 129 Martial Artist
    Member of Division 9
    RK1's first Irony based life form

  10. #10
    Originally posted by Mercatura
    FAs have this nasty habit of turning into "unknown" items inside backpacks. If you take them out and zone, sometimes they turn back to FAs. Other times you can kiss them goodbye.

    Theres still FAs out there, trust me.

    To be honest, without crit buffs, the only thing they have going for them is the non-insane MR.
    Very true, but FAs were just so -cool-! They had a great model, and the sound effects they made were awesome. I've never even seen an FA4200, so I'm not sure what they're like at all.

    As for the test server... can anyone confirm that they are indeed back? If they are, awesome... I just want to dual wield them because they're cool

  11. #11

    Re: the point

    Originally posted by Virind
    The point isn't that dual weilding pistols adds NO damage. It does, obviously. the problem is that it adds very little damage for the amount of IP
    Multi wield is a single skill. The IP cost of it depends on the prof.

  12. #12
    while we're at it... multi-wield reqs on shutguns are insane. someone please look into that? :-D
    Zyxlhyperbouncing firebrand trader going up in flames of black shiny kirch kevlar twirling armor spinning sparks and smoke

    I demand Miir release her summer line! and her winter line! and her fall collection!

    And I want a kevlar combat bikini too please... and a summon-and-debuff Leet for all of those pesky people wanting wrangles

    While I'm being greedy and demanding... I'd like to be a little taller too, and I think I really want a few wigs for fun, and maybe a hat or two, and some irridescent purple guns that do cold damage. Got that? Good. I'm waiting impatiently here

  13. #13
    Originally posted by Mor


    Of course I do, I just believe it's a bunch of BS that's all.

    I tried to solo some mobs with and without duel wield. With it I could, without it I couldnt. It does help ALOT with damage over time. Case closed.
    I love how you just use the words "Case closed." And you figure that will just end everthing. You are wrong.

    These are calculations without crit buffs. With Crit buffs there is an obvious advantage to dual weilding as you get more shots (read: more crits) in a shorter amount of time.

    But for professions with small crit buffs, somethings become clear. In that 30 seconds, you shoot your main gain less often to make room for your offhand. Your offhand is so low in qlvl it doesnt really help you. Your main hand would have helped more often.

  14. #14

    Re: the point

    Originally posted by Virind
    Oh, and about Freedom Arms. They're coming back. I've found several on the test server since it went to the 14.2 patch. So if you want them, they're coming back (probably).
    What matters more is the number of Freedom Arms. Are they 4200s or 3972s?

  15. #15
    all freedom arms 3927's are rare and do not drop anymore as far as i know
    4200's arent that great, look at the MR req

  16. #16
    Well, IMO, the multi wield on shotguns SHOULD be insane.

    Who have you ever seen running around with two shotguns?

    Whats wrong, is that some pistols have HIGHER multiwield reqs than some SMGs and shotguns. IMO, they should bring back the FA series now that they nerfed the crits. Maybe make them slower or something. After all, 2 of those would be about the same as a single krutt after crit nerf(if they were changed to 2.5/2.5).

  17. #17
    *bump* in the hopes of an answer about FAs dropping again on test?

  18. #18
    *new* FA's might..
    Last edited by Kinkstaah; May 23rd, 2002 at 18:46:07.
    Don't be lonely anymore.

    Look at your post, now back at mine. Now back to your post, now back at mine. Sadly, yours isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through posts, reading the posts your posts could look like. Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again, my reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible when you think before you post.

  19. #19

    Lightbulb Another reason for FA 3927s to return

    Since they nerfed implant swapping order, it has become very hard for most professions to implant higher QL head, eye and right hand implants, since that is where the surgery clusters go. For example, I can install QL 200 implants in all the other slots, but only up to 180 or so in those three locations, which by some strange coincidence, are also the most important for me, with clusters that happen to go in the same places as surgery clusters.

    However, level 150-159 FA 3927s have a +50 (!!!) treatment buff. Wielding one of them would be just enough to make the difference for many people.

    Personally, I'd like to see one of those pistols around just for the buff, much less for the damage and crits.... That +10 treatment quartz rifle just doesn't do the job by comparison.
    Strycker, OT NT
    Member of AOR RK-1
    Mundus vult decipi, decipiatur

  20. #20
    God I want FA's again

    I guess this Desert Reet will do until Funcom realizes their mistake..

    READ - FOREVER

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