Opposed to the proposed whompa changes

[______________Sarwyn]

I recently found a post by Cz on another AO news site that included two maps comparing the old whompa system to the new one that will be going in with the next patch. I have to say that I really disagree with the implementation.

Take Last Ditch, for example. When I was just a wee adventurer starting out in the big mean world of Anarchy Online, I used to get missions in Last Ditch all the time. I'd load up on a couple missions out in that area, a few in Holes in the Wall that I'd finish off on the way, and I'd just make a day of it. Whomp over to Newland from Athen, Borealis from Newland, scan on my way out of the city, and then take a nice romp through the countryside, occasionally stopping to deal with a rollerrat that just wouldn't give up. It was slightly dangerous, I died a couple times in my early days, but you know, there's a risk involved with traveling, that's all there is to it. Last Ditch was this somewhat remote bastion, removed from the hustle and bustle of the more populous cities of the north.

But then the whompa was added. I'm not saying that it was really wrong to do so, I mean, Last Ditch has as much right as the next town to have a bustling population, but the whompa, in my opinion, really killed its character.

I see that there are two new whompas that are going to be added in this patch, one in Wailing Wastes, and one in Bliss. Now, Wailing Wastes has always been one of my favorite places. It's this vast, unhospitable desert seperating Athen Shire and Mort, one of the more dangerous zones in the world. There's not much alive there, you don't even see much wildlife running around, and what you do see are generally scorpoids which aren't over lively to begin with anyway. The outposts located in the north are quite removed, and again have a bit of a charm in that way. I don't consider Wailing Wastes to be an overly-populated area, perhaps one that was at one time, but has since been abandoned due to increasing problems with local wildlife attacking travelers, and was thusly abandoned. I really don't believe that a whompa fits in that area.

And finally Bliss. This is kind of another Last Ditch to me. Located somewhat out of the way along The Longest Road, a path that not everyone would be going past due to TLR's dead end nature, not only is it an oasis in the desert, it's an oasis from civilization, for those of us who prefer to be out in the wilderness in relative privacy, to take in the sights and watch the suns set over the desert, looking out towards the salt flats. I suppose a whompa out here may go with the area a little better than it would in wailing wastes, but again, I still don't think they go hand-in-hand.

Convenience is one thing. Being able to get from Athen to Tir in a couple minutes rather than having to run the circuit across Aegean is a nice thing, it lets us get from major population centers easily, and it fits in with the setting of each of the cities. However, my fear is that the changes to the whompa system are going to all but destroy the traveling spirit of the citizens. With the changes to team missions, you have inadvertantly caused a severe cutback in hunting parties, many of the old hunting grounds are now all but deserted, it's somewhat rare to come across a fellow traveler while heading to a mission, and I fear that the new whompas will further this. Even in the future, not everything is simple and painless. Rome wasn't built in a day. Neither was Athen, nor Omni-1.

I'd respectfully ask for those who are involved in the redesign of the whompa system to take a moment to think about whether these whompas really fit in with the character of the area they're to be installed in, and whether they fit in well with your vision.

[Stratah]

This a copy of my post from a another (similar) thread...

Erm, I notice that many people have not followed AO throughout it's development...

We currently have maybe 20% of the mass transit/fast transit options that were part of the original game concept.

There were originally supposed to be The Grid (was originally fixer only btw) the Whompas, AND a subway system.

Adding more fast travel options is just a step in fulfilling the original game concept. The whompa system we currently have is *miniscule* compared to the original whompa plan, as is The Grid. The subway plan has been scrapped now, which means the Grid and the whompa systems will need to be even more extensive than originally planned in order to provide mass transit to the areas the subways were supposed to be.

This is the high-tech future people!
This planet was built by a super corporation in the far, far future! Hell, even medium present-day cities have a more developed mass transit system than the futuristic cities of Rubi-Ka do! Sheesh!

/me wonders what game description some people read before buying Anarchy Online.

Mass transit doesn't take away the ability to adventure...I ran (on foot, no car at the time - was relatively low level) from Borealis to West Athens/Athens rather than whompa just to explore and learn the layout of the land. I also drove in my car from the Broken Shores whompa to the city of Home just to explore, even though at the time, I met the BS/Home grid requirement. Now that I have a Yalm, and can grid to almost everywhere, I STILL go adventuring sometimes rather than just whompa or grid, just to see what's out there.

If people want to explore the land/adventure, they will.
Adding transit does not take away this ability.

[agentgimpy]

Bliss is beautiful and quiet and this news disturbs me. I have many a time gone there to get away from the hustle and bustle of the big towns. As is the case with most suburban areas that are connected to large urban centres with rapid transit, the bad element always creeps in. Next thing you know there will be a strip bar in Bliss and n00b's begging for money....a sad, sad day.

[______________Sarwyn]

Stratah,

I noticed the other thread posted by my associate Vacuos shortly after writing my own, I apologize for duplicating threads. I guess I just didn't make my point clearly enough. I'm not arguing that there shouldn't be mass transportation systems on Rubi-Ka, I couldn't imagine the planet without them, they're certainly one of the pillars of our civilization. The thing that concerns me, however, is the placement of whompas in parts of the world where they really don't fit, in my opinion.

I mean, would you expect a subway from Boston to run out to the middle of nowhere, somewhere in the western half of the state? The whompa in Wailing Wastes is really quite redundant, if you ask me. We have the whompa already in Athen, and the grid terminal in West Athen. Wailing wastes is just a short walk north from there, a pretty safe walk too, I don't believe I've ever seen anything other than leets and reets in that area. I rarely see more than three or four people in Wailing Wastes even if I spend a couple hours in there, it's a very deserted place it would seem, and I guess I just don't see the need for mass transportation to such a place, if only to cater to the people who don't want to have to work to get to their missions.

As for Bliss, I still stand by what I said earlier, it's a nice quiet little spot that you can stop in at and sit down by the pond and reflect. Next thing you know, it's going to be a popular spot for people to sit around and try to cyber with each other (I've learned to avoid the clubs at certain times of day as of late.)

I realize this is all just personal opinion, but I'm all for keeping the atmosphere in these areas, especially if the expense is only a slight discomfort for the players at having to walk an extra ten or fifteen minutes to get to a remote location.

I recall reading another reply to the other thread, with someone mentioning that Bliss may be a likely choice for traveling to the new parts of the world that will be introduced with the expansion pack, in that case I can certainly see the justification, but I don't see why we'd need to have the whompa installed immediately, give us at least a few more months.

[_________KrazyKanuck]

Well obviously the Bliss whompa is intended to releive the stress off BS because you can get many missions in TLR. atleast as a clanner. Now i still won't choose missions out there because you get those non-human mobs which are WAY to powerful but maybe large teams of high levels will choose to take there missions in TLR if the mission comes up.

Now the problem as a clanner is that more then 1/2 my missions are in OMNI HQ or around SFH both which due to the fact to get through them i have to go through omni guards zones which is dangerous if you are experiencing some lag

Now lets see 1/2 our missions are inaccessible due to guards. 1/4 are still not really viable due to there location/difficulty/length.

So that leaves 1/4 of the clan missions left. also know as the missions to BS it was a nice attempt by FC to spread it out but your still gonna have 90% of high level clanners in BS.

I think as it is a clan area some heavy duty guards need to be added to keep the omnis out. Or atleast make em run a guantlet like clanners have to do to get to PM.

[Maximilian]

Sarwyn, could you please post a link (or description) of the post you are mentioning. I would like to get a view on the maps (if I got your comment right).

Thanks in advance,

Max(imilian)

[Catelite]

http://boards.stratics.com/php-bin/a...e=0&view=&sb=5

[Maximilian]

Gracias.

Max(imilian)

[______________Sarwyn]

KrazyKancuk,

While I do agree with you that traveling to missions in and around Omni zones is dangerous, I have to disagree that such a large percentage are impossible.

In the past, I have had a few missions that were quite dangerous to get into. One was on the back side of an omni outpost, which I was able to sneak into by jumping over the wall and keeping out of sight of the guards. I managed to get that one fine. I had another later on that was in another omni outpost, but with a lone adventurer patrolling the wall, I managed to get in without any trouble, aside from noticing an unidentified blip on the radar, which later did me in as I tried to escape from the outpost. Finally, I have had a few missions inside Omni mines in 4 Holes that were flat-out impossible to get into, due to very high-level guards guarding the only entrance into the mine. (I tell you my personal experiences so we're working from the same page.)

Of these, one thing I would like to see would be something like hazard pay; if a mission is located inside an Omni outpost, give some bonus credits above and beyond the usual amount for the risk involved with getting in (getting out isn't a risk, since you complete the mission regardless of whether you die, as long as you get / deposit the item. Death, sometimes, speeds missions along even.). I don't know that each server can know how many guards are around a given point in a zone on another server, but this would best be pre-calculated anyway.

And to resolve situations such as the one that I ran into with the Omni-Tek mine in 4 Holes, I guess I'd suggest perhaps altering the playfields slightly so that the mines have more than one entrance in; the heavily-guarded front entrance, and a lesser-guarded, or not guarded rear entrance, like a small fissure in the rock or something. (The problem with that area was that there was an impassible wall of rock around all sides of the mine.) However, I would presume that if I had a Yalmaha, I might have been able to come in from the top, in which case I think I'd withdraw this suggestion, since that would be one viable insertion (and if you're real lucky, extraction) method.

I will admit, though, that I've never done a mission in SFH though, so I don't know how dangerous that area is. The basic rules would have to be 1) Grid to Harry's, he's cool that way and 2) Never walk along the road in hostile territory unless absolutely necessary. Especially in 25% or lower zones, you tend to run into more people that way, isn't always a good thing.

Finally, as for missions being too far away to be viable, I'd have to take issue with that as well. Even missions in Andromeda or Clon**** usually don't take all that long to get to (at least for me, lvl57), maybe 15-20 minutes. I suppose I am more patient than some though, but if I understand correctly, mission payouts are calculated by distance to travel, among other things, which would be why BS is such a great place to get missions, being an isolated zone.

[________maxgallagher]

I think some missions should be highly dangerous, and some nearly impossible, to access, but at the same time i think those missions should be the ones offering the best rewards. And I really like Sarwyn's idea of multiple entrances...perhaps the mission marker would point only to the general area, and then it would be up to the player to locate the most convenient entrance, with many of them being heavily guarded. It would add a little ****e to mission life, methinks.

[_____________Lirilee]

My only comment is this: Newland and Bori will never truly be Neutral cities until a Wom-pa is in existance from Omni territories to somewhere Neutral. Otherwise, these cities are de facto Clan, as Clan Lowbies hunt the shores near Newland, but there is no access to these same location for Omni lowbies, so Clan become familiar with and comfortable with NL, while the first time an Omni wanders in, he is bewildered by the number of Clan folk about. As long as we are fixing Wom-pas, either give Omni access to Neutral areas, or remove Clan access, thereby making these areas truly neutral.

[______________Sarwyn]

That's actually something I hadn't really considered in the past, but you make a good point. Many times I've been in Newland when clanners spot some Omni-Tek employees walking through the city and start harassing them for being in 'clan' territory. On the same token, I think that if clan guards still attack neutrals, then neutral guards ought to be turned against clanners and Omni-Tek employees until either or both sides lower their weapons toward neutrals. Simply protecting their own, you know.

[Cotharin]

I agree with that comepletely. There is also the absolutely stupid problem of low level characters changing to omni after the fact. There is absolute no way to get to anything omni before you can use the grid, that is a real problem at low level. I would hate to be atrox with low intell and hurting comp lit as it is..