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Thread: Anarchy Online Expansion Pack

  1. #61

    Unhappy

    One thing most users don't realize, is WE are FunCom's employers.

    We pay their rent, We buy their cars, We feed their faces, We clothe their butts.

    Come on FunCom, obey your Boss', fix what you have before even DREAMING of adding on. Or else, your FIRED!

    (i.e. fired = nobody paying for their game)
    It ain't over till the fat lady falls on you.

  2. #62
    Just how clogged up are some of your brains? Let me spell it out for you...

    THEY ARE NOT TAKING ANYONE OFF OF BUG FIXING OR BALANCING TO MAKE THIS EXPANSION!

    Did you ever even take the time to think that maybe the former Midgard team is making the expansion? It would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it? Stop *****ing already.

  3. #63
    Originally posted by wraith
    Just how clogged up are some of your brains? Let me spell it out for you...

    THEY ARE NOT TAKING ANYONE OFF OF BUG FIXING OR BALANCING TO MAKE THIS EXPANSION!

    Did you ever even take the time to think that maybe the former Midgard team is making the expansion? It would make a lot of sense, wouldn't it? Stop *****ing already.
    Then who are they going to use to bug fix and balance the expansion? I was under the impression that the Midgard team merged with the AO team, were they pulled out again to work on the expansion?

    Assuming the Midgardians *were* working on AO with it's current glacial patch schedule, it's going to get even slower now.

    Assuming they *weren't* working on AO with it's current glacial patch schedule, why *can't* they work on AO to get it fixed before they even think about working on an expansion?

    If they hired a new team of people (20+ probably), where did they get the money for it? Why weren't more people hired to work on AO instead?

    Why is it such a problem that I, like many others, want FUncom's original project to be working correctly before they even think about adding more crap they need to fix? This fantasy expansion sounds interesting, but can't they finish what they started before they do it?
    Originally posted by Whaambulance
    Hi.

    This is singlehandedly the stupidest post I have EVER read on these forums. Congradulations.
    'Balancing' Nanos Will Remain Imbalanced Vs. Old Nanos - Because We Said So!

    O Gaute, Gaute! Wherefore art thou Gaute?
    Deny thy nerfs and refuse thy lame design decisions;
    Or, if thou wilt not, be but on the forums,
    And I'll no longer be a whiner.

  4. #64
    If you want fast patches, may I suggest Dark Age of Camelot? There they patch nearly every week, and things are only on the test server for 9 days. You would not believe the number of bugs that get through the system, only to require an average of 3 emergency patches per update. Personally, I prefer slower but tested and corrected rather than faster and tested, but not corrected.

    From my understanding, the Midgard team merged with the AO team, with some members going to work on AO and some going to work on the expansion along with a few of the original AO developers. Its also my understanding that this happened concurrently with the merger of the two groups, so we won't be seeing any change to the rate of patching.

    As to why they can't all be working on AO proper, its because they'd all begin stepping on each others code, and there is a learning curve. Having a few learn niche areas of the code while the others start on the expansion is much more productive in the long run, and fits the current business model of MMOGs much better.

    Player retention in all MMOGs is getting to be an issue now that there are several excellent games out there, so you need a new product every year to keep your name fresh for consumers (especially those buying as presents for others). Otherwise you quickly dwindle. And an expansion or upgrade for a current game is much cheaper in terms of development costs and time than starting a whole new game.

    Gone are the days when M59 and UO ruled alone. The first challenges were EQ and AC, who ended up pushing M59 out. The "big 3" started running scared with the development of WW2OL, AO, and DAoC. WW2OL is a niche market, and the other 5 are now afraid of SWG, Shadowbane, and Horizons (are they still working on that in secret or not?), along with a handful of other true second generation MMOGs. This requires some update to your game to retain the players you have while attracting new players.

    Unfortunately, its become accepted business practice to put out a buggy game. DAoC was unique in its solid engine upon release, but they too have been plagued by class balance and high level content issues. It seems to take about a year to address all these concerns adequately, no matter which game you are looking at.

    So, as an upshot, I don't think we'll see a change in the rate of patches for AO proper. We already know that some of the new development coming with the Shadowlands expansion will be introduced into the original game, while others will be reserved to those buying the expansion, so I can't see how people can complain about having a team work on new content. We also know that the developers have commited to introducing new content designed specifically for AO proper (which will also be present for those chosing to buy the expansion of course).

  5. #65
    Originally posted by Ichidann
    If you want fast patches, may I suggest Dark Age of Camelot? There they patch nearly every week, and things are only on the test server for 9 days. You would not believe the number of bugs that get through the system, only to require an average of 3 emergency patches per update. Personally, I prefer slower but tested and corrected rather than faster and tested, but not corrected.
    Change 'Dark Age of Camelot' to 'Anarchy Online', and change 'week' to 'two months'. AO patches are on test for months and *still* get to live with glaring bugs. Bugs that they knew about. Bugs that they didn't know about but the players *did* know about. Bugs that would never make it to live if they had a clue.

    Originally posted by Ichidann
    Player retention in all MMOGs is getting to be an issue now that there are several excellent games out there, so you need a new product every year to keep your name fresh for consumers (especially those buying as presents for others). Otherwise you quickly dwindle. And an expansion or upgrade for a current game is much cheaper in terms of development costs and time than starting a whole new game.
    It's hard to retain players when they're leaving over bugs and general incompleteness in your original game. FUncom touting a paid expansion as the solution to all of AO's ills is just going to breed more dissent.
    Originally posted by Whaambulance
    Hi.

    This is singlehandedly the stupidest post I have EVER read on these forums. Congradulations.
    'Balancing' Nanos Will Remain Imbalanced Vs. Old Nanos - Because We Said So!

    O Gaute, Gaute! Wherefore art thou Gaute?
    Deny thy nerfs and refuse thy lame design decisions;
    Or, if thou wilt not, be but on the forums,
    And I'll no longer be a whiner.

  6. #66
    They aren't saying that the expansion is going to fix all the issues with AO, they are saying that the expansion is going to add another city and provide clues to the backstory and why Rubi-ka is unique in that Reclaimation works. They have come right out and said that they are still fixing the original game, and will continue fixing the original game as well as adding content to it, and in fact have not pulled anyone off the AO proper team that hasn't been replaced by at least one more worker from the Midgard project. They are using additional workers to work on the Shadowlands expansion, presumably under the direction of some of the original AO devs (to answer questions about mechanics and the like).

    And look how far they have brought the game since release. They have another 7 months to continue in the same way before Shadowlands hits the shelves. In that time a great many changes can get made. Compared to the pace of change in many other MMOGs, Funcom is really moving right along at fixing issues. DAoC is implementing fixes faster than Funcom, but many of them are not fully thought out, tested, or analyzed before being implemented on live servers despite the highly touted Team Lead program and the Camelot Herald.

    Personally, I'm impressed with what Funcom has done since release. I feel that they can be trusted to continue making changes while they work concurrently on the expansion that is "necessary" from a business perspective, since they have stated that is what they are doing. No, the game isn't perfect, and isn't where I'd like to see it. There are too many issues with absent storyline, unbalanced classes, missing features, etc. for the game to be considered perfect, despite getting the Game of the Year Award; however, looking at Funcom's track record in fixing issues in a prioritized fashion, I think that by the time the expansion comes out, many of the current issues will have been laid to rest. No, not all, but many.

    The bottom line is that anyone as fed up with the game as posts in this thread indicate can easily vote with their feet. Don't bother waiting until SW:G or another of the new breed comes out... take your cash and stop supporting the efforts that many posting here seem to feel are wasted. Support your local library or gaming store instead. Then, if you feel like it in a few months, come back and see if the game you hoped would exist is closer to realization.

  7. #67
    Originally posted by Ichidann
    They have come right out and said that they are still fixing the original game, and will continue fixing the original game as well as adding content to it, and in fact have not pulled anyone off the AO proper team that hasn't been replaced by at least one more worker from the Midgard project. They are using additional workers to work on the Shadowlands expansion, presumably under the direction of some of the original AO devs (to answer questions about mechanics and the like).
    Well that is a nice upbeat post. Now only if that were true. You see Funcom also made the following statement.

    Originally posted by Editor
    With the decision to make an expansion pack came a few shifts in priority.

    ...

    As a consequence, we will remove the section of the website entitled "Envisioned Changes" as well as some of the information in the "In Progress" section.
    Care to explain what priority has changed and why that change would force Funcom to remove the Envisioned section. Could it possibly be that Funcom only has planned maintenance and a few database changes for AO until the Expansion?

  8. #68
    Paranoia runs rampant around here doesn't it?

    Take a look at the sticky thread at the top of every forum called "Bulletin Board Changes."

    No posts or threads will be removed as part of these changes, but merged into other forums. (This might not be the case for the Bulletin Board forum, but I'll get back to that later.)

    Envisioned and In Progress are merged into Suggestions. Player Events and In-Character are merged into Role-Playing.
    Now, in the old structure, both of those were suggestion forums, we just had some indication of which ones were being worked on faster as Cosmic or Cz went through and moved threads to the appropriate forum. Which took time to read all the posts, consult the devs to see which ones should be in which category, and move them. So, what's the priority? More time to read and give feedback rather than board maintenance. I've been a board moderator on boards smaller than these, and I shudder at trying to keep things organized on such a scale.

    Please note that none of the old posts were lost... they were moved into the new Suggestions forum. Its also easie for players to figure out where to stick their post... it just goes into suggestions.

    They did some other moving and renaming as well, but again, they lost none of the sections or old posts. They cleaned up some confusing bits, and consolidated similar topics into similar areas. It happens frequently that a board set-up you think will work well ends up being more of a hassle than you want or that the posters use them differently than you imagined, and some reorganization makes things easier for everyone.

    EDIT: You probably are right that some new features will be put off until the expansion, and some will be available only with the expansion - that's part of the proven business model for MMOGs. However, when they have said that they will continue with the normal process of fixing classes, I look at their track record so far and trust them. Is there much that needs to be fixed? Sure. But they have fixed a lot already. Lets not cry wolf over perceptions that have no substance. If after a couple months we have seen no work at all on versions past 14.2, then I'll gladly join you in lamblasting their decision to work on an expansion concurrent with the normal pace of fixes, because there would be evidence that they are not doing that. I doubt that's going to happen though.
    Last edited by Meiyen; May 28th, 2002 at 11:37:38.

  9. #69

    No more missions!

    Variations is a good thing and probably needed to meet the competition from other games coming up soon.

    Unbalance between Hunting and Missions/Team Missions!! took the fun away from Rubi-Ka.
    Make Shadowlands hunting only please!
    At least make sure there is plenty of varied hunting grounds for ALL levels - I repeat ALL levels, giving decent XP :-)

    I for one, reopened my AO account just to be able to post this message on the boards. So much for dedication....

    And while I am on the subject og missions. If FC really have to re-introduce missions in Shadowlands, make the chests in all of AO Mob drops to get rid of Ninja looters once and for all.

  10. #70

    Uh.

    Make Shadowlands hunting only please!
    While you're at it make it Solitus only too please!



    Swerve

  11. #71

    Wink

    And only allow dual wielding leet dolls.

  12. #72

    Shadowland OR patches?

    Now I have been reading a lot on the Shadowlands messages here and I can't help feeling that some are just plainly not understanding how a company works.

    It is meant to generate revenue for the owners!

    To do that tou need to have a GOOD ENOUGH product and something to look forward to. Now when I play (8-12 hours per week) I almost NEVER herar any complaining. How come?

    Myself, I have played AO since june last year, quite once due to horrendus patching and come back. The game is playable, there are still huge areas I have not visited. You know it IS possible to hunt elswhere thatn SW/NW mines when you are in the 40 lvl range? How many of the screamers have been to the different static missons at the right lvl range? If they do, then it's a blast. You actually need a good working team to live through it. (A pity that to high lvl players get in and wastes mobd though..)

    On the Shadowlands, It looks cool. Let all the grafics artists and level builders work on that. Maby even some of the coders. I look forward to the Nano tech city. The fantasy stuff, well maby not my cup of tea so I'l just keep out of it.

    cya planetside
    Metakane

  13. #73
    Ichidann,

    I don't know if you have played since launch or been active on these boards for a long time, but Funcom has a history of saying things that turn out not to be true. I'm not saying they are pathological liars, often they think that what they are saying is true or circumstances and/or later decisions render their previous statements inaccurate. But this history leads us to not take what they say at face value.

    And when we talk about board wipes, we are not talking about the creation of a new section. There have been three complete board wipes, two of which they admit were intentional. One of those two came days before AO was released in Europe and hid away a lot of very valid criticisms from people who would be checking the forums to see if they should try this game.

    And congrats, you are the 1 millionth person to suggest that anyone that doesn't like the game should leave! We'll make sure you get a pioneer backpack as a prize or something. We like the game, we just don't like the company (think using Microsoft products vs. liking Microsoft). We complain here because that has proven to be a way to force the company to improve the game. Many, many enhancements and bug fixes have come about as a direct result of people here complaining. You don't have to like us, but please understand that we are serving a constructive purpose.

    And you aren't paranoid if they really ARE out to get you!

    Scorus

  14. #74
    Let's move beyond 'Good' and 'Evil'. In the pre-launch days, the developers said they wanted a game of white hats vs. black hats (for those that don't know, that is how makers of early 20th century American western movies differentiated the good guys from the bad guys). They were clearly attempting to put forward a concept of the rebel against the evil oppressor (ala Star Wars, for instance).

    But as many of today's international disputes show, who is good and who is evil is very much in the eye of the beholder. One example that was used often by the developers was the recent cult sci fi show 'Babylon 5'. For much of that series there were two races going at it (as they had for millenia). One of those races appeared as black, shadowy, spider-like creatures and were 'evil'. The other race appeared to each race differently, as creatures of goodness (as angels to humans). But in the end it turned out that neither was good or evil, they just represented chaos and order, neither less repressive in their pursuit of an extreme than the other.

    So while I know it will be tough for many to get over the devil-bad, hero-good imagery, in general just consider them opposing sides.

    Scorus

  15. #75
    Originally posted by Scorus
    And when we talk about board wipes, we are not talking about the creation of a new section. There have been three complete board wipes, two of which they admit were intentional. One of those two came days before AO was released in Europe and hid away a lot of very valid criticisms from people who would be checking the forums to see if they should try this game.
    The person who threw a quote at me used the recent board reorganization as a way of saying that the Shadowlands expansion was going to pull devs off improving the game. His quote was not suited to the purpose he used it for, and I pointed it out. You are correct, they have wiped the boards completely before; however, that has no bearing on the quote or my response in this instance.

    Originally posted by Scorus
    We like the game, we just don't like the company (think using Microsoft products vs. liking Microsoft). We complain here because that has proven to be a way to force the company to improve the game. Many, many enhancements and bug fixes have come about as a direct result of people here complaining. .
    I'd like to draw a distinction between whinning and complaining. Complaining involves some constructive criticism, and is useful for improving a game. Whinning, which a significant number of posts in this thread qualify as, is often an unsubstantiated knee-jerk reaction which severs no purpose other than to emotionally sway others when facts can't be given to support their response. As such it doesn't help improve the game.

    Complain/criticize all you want while you enjoy the game, regardless of your feelings about the company. Look at how many people enjoy EQ while detesting Verant. But the whinners might want to re-evaluate their reasons for currently playing a game they obviously feel is horribly broken and downright unfun. Funcom has been making improvements fairly steadily, perhaps not in the order you'd choose, but they have been making them. If someone doesn't like the current state of the game now, they should give it a break and come back in several months to see what its like then. Chances are it'll be better.

    Originally posted by Scorus
    You don't have to like us, but please understand that we are serving a constructive purpose.
    None of my posts has anything to do with liking or disliking the posters in this thread - I like some of you, others I am totally ambivalent about because I don't know you. I can't think of anyone here I dislike.

    Its entirely possible to like someone but dislike their actions; just like you may like the game but dislike the management provided by Funcom. However, if you find anything of worth in the collective package, you owe that part you find enjoyable a reasoned response to the parts you find unenjoyable. That is criticism and will be received significantly better than rants/whines, meaning that the changes you desire are more likely to occur if you can express you position clearly, rationally, and with supporting evidence.
    Last edited by Meiyen; May 29th, 2002 at 19:07:25.

  16. #76
    Originally posted by Ichidann
    I'd like to draw a distinction between whinning and complaining. Complaining involves some constructive criticism, and is useful for improving a game. Whinning, which a significant number of posts in this thread qualify as, is often an unsubstantiated knee-jerk reaction which severs no purpose other than to emotionally sway others when facts can't be given to support their response. As such it doesn't help improve the game.
    We've tried the whole 'facts and logical arguments' thing, that didn't work. Now we're reduced to whining, which seems to have worked just fine for agents.

    Originally posted by Ichidann
    Look at how many people enjoy EQ while detesting Verant.
    I think 'enjoy' is a bit strong. 'Horribly addicted' might fit better.
    Originally posted by Whaambulance
    Hi.

    This is singlehandedly the stupidest post I have EVER read on these forums. Congradulations.
    'Balancing' Nanos Will Remain Imbalanced Vs. Old Nanos - Because We Said So!

    O Gaute, Gaute! Wherefore art thou Gaute?
    Deny thy nerfs and refuse thy lame design decisions;
    Or, if thou wilt not, be but on the forums,
    And I'll no longer be a whiner.

  17. #77

    why get excited Jobe was talked about way before this....

    I guess I'm a cynic but I see no reason to say anything positive about this exxpansion except perhaps is the shadowlands area is worthwhile. As for the new city of Jobe well, that was planned back as early as 2000. Thats right kiddies, the city was supposed to be in the original game, don't believe me heres a quote from an interview with one of the GD:

    Answers from Øystein Rom and Orjan Mathis Tvedt Source : AO Basher Mystics
    Date : 07/13/2000

    Øystein Rom (alias Bailo)
    Funcom Support Department

    - Will there be Classes that are easier to play if you are member of one side? It seems to be more difficult to reach Jobe and get new "spells" there if you are a Clan Nano Technican.
    There are different bonuses for Omni-Tek and the Rebel Clans. These bonuses could make it easier for certain classes/profesions to play. Jobe is generally hard to reach, both for Rebels and Omni-Tek. But since there is an Omni-Tek controlled territory nearby, maybe it could be easier for Omni-Tek to reach Jobe.

    If this doesn't sound like the same thing they are talking about now then maybe I'm misreading things. So the only thing it seems that they are adding other than something we could have had in the original release is this shadowlands area.

  18. #78
    Originally posted by Ichidann
    The person who threw a quote at me used the recent board reorganization as a way of saying that the Shadowlands expansion was going to pull devs off improving the game. His quote was not suited to the purpose he used it for, and I pointed it out.
    I assume you are referring to me.

    The quote I gave has absolutely nothing to due with the boards. I was referring to the web site. You see in this context, the players use the boards to talk to Funcom and Funcom uses their web site to talk to us. For example, the Envisioned section of Funcom’s website was where they posted proposed upcoming changes not the Envisioned section of the boards. So when it comes to getting information out of Funcom the merger of a few boards is unimportant, but a restructuring of the web site is cause for concern.

    My point was that with the removal of the Envisioned web page, Funcom officially doesn’t have anything on their to do list. The fact that this change comes at the same time as the Expansion Pack announcement is a pretty good indication that the expansion is in fact going to slow development on AO.

  19. #79
    Ahh, sorry for the misunderstanding Crin. I thought you were talking about removing the Envisioned section of these boards.

    I have no answer for your question, now that I understand it. Unless perhaps the person doing the website updates was pulled to work on something else. I know most devs at these small companies are actually doing several different jobs. For instance, I know one of the devs at Mythic is in charge of the server farm operations (hardware oriented), tradeskill development, and the item database (which includes itemization of mobs and quests).

    It could be that updating that portion of the website took a back burner to some other duty of that particular individual. Or it could be a plot to test how deeply indoctrinated we are.

  20. #80

    Talking Ichidann Rules!

    Ichidann I would like to personally thank you for your clear arguments to all the whinefest on this board. Now as Ichidann said there is a good line between *****-fest and constructive criticism. Much too often have I seen it on the Everquest, Dark Age of Camelot, and even the Earth & Beyond Forums that people tend to jump the gun post a quick flame or rant then post it before calming down and thinking it through. Now not ALL of the posters here are whiners but also take into account you are but a few when compared to the whole population that post on these forums.

    As of now AO proper is going on 1 year being live. What Ichidann is saying is that in less than one years time FunCom has been able to take a game from non playable on top end comuter gaming systems to playable on a mid-range pc with a 56k connection. Give some respect where its earned. FunCom could have cut their loses back in November of last year and conentrated fully on other projects. Thus burning some 20,000 people burned out of $50 plus several months paid game time. I for one bought this game back 1 week after launch one year ago and yes I left the game because it sucked A$$. I came back just a couple months ago to a game completely revamped. Who of us remember the horrid memory leak and constant lag of caching players all the time in omni towns. Who remembers the bugged mission chest and token rewards. Today that is all gone from what I have seen.

    Today I see what people are complaining about on all other MMOG's balance issues. PEOPLE, remember it took Verant almost 4 years now to get their balance pattened down and screwed it all up again by introducing the Vah'shir to the game. This market is in its infant stages so treat it like it:

    1)Patience
    2)Understanding
    3)Help them to learn from their mistakes

    Instead of:

    1)Dropping to 3yr old status and crying just to get attention from other kids or adults
    2)Getting fussy and pissed about every small issue.

    We could all take a lesson from Ichidann and learn to calm our tempers when posting and decide to post positive CRITICISM instead of pointless flames and rants that render entire posts useless. Trust me from experience of 3 years in Everquest forums and 6 months on DAoC forums it helps. I play AO now because I find myself able to play ENJOYABLY for 10+ hours a day this game and have no regrets when logging off. Maybe as Ichidann says take a break from the game a few months and come back. God knows that FunCom stores all characters that could survive a nuclear blast. If you have to put the K/B and mouse down and step away a few months. Then come back and look at it as I did. It did me wonders and I am thankful I did.
    Wizard's First Rule, people are stupid.
    Wizard's Eigth Rule- Deserve Victory. -Terry Goodkind / Author

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