Agent changes

[Morphex]

After reading the agent-forum for a while I decided to put some of the great ideas in here.

I just think we need some agents discussion in this part of forum too. They need some change.

Thanks to Monstajugz, Fakewin and Canidy for great posts.

Monstajugz on False Profession:
Hi,
My name on RK-1 is Monstajugz and I'm a 110 OT agent. I am really dissatisfied with the recent changes in False Profession, and here is the reason/reasoning.

Before 13.1 FP acted just like tank armor. If you had twice the nano available it would cost all of it to cast, yet if u were a little short of twice but still had the nano to cast w/o the penalty it would still let you use the nano.

Now the FP nano lines have 150% na penalty. As you go up in the lines through assume and mimic, the NA penalty decreases. That is good. As far as the recent changes in penalties in NA go, I am all for it. But this is where I feel that funcom's idea of False profession stops being rational.

If you look at nanos of other professions, u see them outperforming any nano of a lower QL in the same class. For example, Essence of Titan adds more HP, STR, and STM than Essence of Cyclops. The only drawback is that it takes more nano to cast, this makes sense. You don't see Titan adding more STM but less STR than cyclops. That wouldn't make sense.

Now look at the FP nano line. The only thing that changes as u go up in QL is a slight decrease in NanoC. and NA penalty, and huge penalties in the amount of time it lasts and negatives to our nano skills. I don't see why anybody would choose to use mimic profession over false profession.

As a nano goes up in QL it is supposed to get better. I suggest:

FP starts off with -85 to all nanos, 150% in NA cost, and 1hour FP duration.
Assume could have -50 to all nanos, 100% in NA cost, and 45 minute duration.
Mimic would be -25 to all nanos, 50% in NA cost, and 30 minute duration.

Now THAT would make sense. But i don't see why anybody would dump points in IPs just to use a worse nano as of now. This doesn't make sense to me, and to anybody I've talked with.

Please consider this. I feel that funcom has overdone the balancing. Agents weren't that strong to begin with, and we've undergone nerf after nerf and I honestly don't feel the point in playing one anymore. We're just another average damage class with nothing to show for now. Funcom has made an RP game into a mindless ill-balanced Combat game.

Monstajugz

Fakewin on Aimed Shot, part 1:
Aimshot is screwed up beyond recognition, and now i am tired about FC tries to say this is improved and some moronic comments by players in agree upon this, now its time to give some facts.

I too the BEST weapon for agents at the moment ,well that can be discussed but from whati see its a very good weapon.

Weapon:

Agent lvl 108

O.C.T. 77a. Ranee, ql 188
Dmg 13-410(580)
Attack rate: 2.5
Recharge : 2.5
clip 5

Hud3 : Extreme low targeting scope ql 108, crit:+8%
aimshot : 720
attack skill: 605

I have different buff so i separate them into class these numbers are taken during my hunting of Borgs at Mort and while i am bored at clainyard,

Case 0: No Buff, Leet at trinyard , crit buff +8%
AS:
4676 7014 2338 2338
4676 2236 2234 7014
2338 4668 2334 2334
4668 2334 2334 2338
2332
Normal shots:
2338 2333 801 2338 2333 393 2308 2333 2333 2333 2334 256 2333 2334 313 303 159 532 608 2333 2333 2333 793 2333 1333 2333 2333 2333 2334 256 2333 2334 128

Case I: AT+VS, Cyborgs, crit +34%
AS:
1033 5032 2332 1033 1033 2106
1033 1053 2540 2550 2049 1051
2110 1050 2486 2441 2441 2449
1046 2490 2490 2096 7206 5006
1042 1042 2501 2121 2513 2110
2550 7650 4676 7014 4676 2226
2226 7014 2338 2338 4668 2334
2334 4668 2334 2334
Normal shots:
2338 2332 512 2338 2333 801 2338 2338 398 2338 2333
2334 256 2333 2334 2334 313 303 159 532 2333 608 2333 793 2333 2333 1333 128 587 134 273 201 376 314 84 89 171 445 463 2101 362 103 568 503 86 464 126 526 2117 491 558 680 2127 169 347 99 2127 156 240 183 282 2179 253 2177 635 635 574 568 2145 266 162 2136 179 32 257 465 2163 250 99 2136 166 89 242 557 55 2131 2112 2112 213 113 2150 206 302 241 2112 401 291 480 391 530 2140 622 485 309 2140633 451 2181 593 325 239 39 557 476 2115 615 242 202 482 394 334 655 639 170 629 2194 2154 2154 2194 2179 81 636 782 282 2178 253 2177 635 574 568 2145 266 162 2136 17982 357 465 2163 250 99 2163 167 89 647 95 401 186 256 2070 185 2193 217 438 2143

Case II: SG , +15% crit, Cyborgs at Mort
AS:
2486 2441 2449 1046 2490 2490 1046 2490 2490 2096 7206 1013 1015 1015 2450 1010 2450 1016 2030 1016 2030 1010 2032 1016 3048 1030 1030 1030 1030 2436 2436 1030 2435
2443 4182 1051 1051 1051 7520 3153 2102 5006 2500 2500 1021 4908 1046 1046 1046 1046 2490 1046 7460 2490 2490
1030 1015 1016
Normal shots:
2126 81 367 286 81 2150 148 2139 358 116 273 108 631 122 124 58 289 545 515 312 435 309 2117 327 2145 180 515 109 2099 268 388 669 161 154 174 669 161 133 2075 335 2104 652 604 169 410 439 410 587 635 2080 514 650 645 609 2090 402 372 554 40 120 2117 613 30 2138 224 53 276 584 397 62 466 571 631 499 610 233 118 632 2152 523 2138 209 2081 559 292
230 133 579 209 487 477 537 187 109 86 2037 64 642 184 90 254 549203 291 522 477 478 143 435 233 455 633 574 376 2135 542 117 300 156 2100 140 56 412 140 2104 622 645 248 558 2071 383 513 569

This is RAW material from which i am going to discuss the flaw in AS in detail and motivate why its so poor. So lookout for the sequel of this topic! I could improve the damage output if i maxed out shotgun skill, which would be from my estimate at most 10-20% increase of average damage ( concluded while using +200 trader buff discount already taken for rifle bonus)

Fakewin on Aimed Shot, part 2:
I want to start this thread with a quote from Kyoshi E.M. Morris, MA trainer in international Jiu-Jitsu,

"After u have pinned down the opponent with this technique, broken his arm, u better be quick broke is other arm too since otherwise you will have a pissed opponent at your throat"

This is not exact but the content is the same, the point is clear i hope and surely it suit this general discussion here.

Part 0 :

Shows clearly that u cant discuss AS from there value since they arent correct, we must take us out to real ombat place and as soon we come to green mobs the stastistic shows the similar result as below but slightly improved. Why this difference, the answer is : evade skills.

Part I:

It is claimed that Automatic target (AT) is supposed be the same as VS (Vulnerable Seeker) which i am not sure of. It seems to me that the chance for crit without any boost from eq is less than 10%, perhaps 5%. Here we see 77% crit for AS and 29% for normal shots.

Part II:

SG was claimed to be not functional for a while dont know wether this is still true. 15% crit chance for normal shots with +8 come from targeting scope. Crit chance for AS is 53%.

Remember, i dont know exactly the effect of evade skill, but if i assume VS=13%, Scope = 8%, SG =8%, Base Crit 10%,AT=13%. Then we get from Part I, that the evade skill mod is -13%. If We apply this to Part II for calculate SG, then SG = 15-8-10+13 = 10%. This proves nothing more than that the observation lies within margin of error and that we can proceed with the discussion with next part, damage output range.

I have been with NT, the real nuke in this game, they are very similar in game style as for agent while soling, in general NT is outstanding ( my own experience) in solo if u choose your targets wisely. Root/Calm + nuke spell is a lovely combination. Agent cannot do this due "awareness" which is amazing miss FC have done. If now according to quote, have succed in broke the arm of your subject, well i should be able at least broke it another time or make my AS twice as good the very beginning.

Why? As you clearly see which i wil discuss in Part III the distribution of dmg output AS is screwed up!

Fakewin on Aimed Shot, part 3:
This is the continue of the discussion,next step in my argument of why AS is screwed up, from what you see the crit chance while using all the best current buff is used you get a from what i understand a fair crit chance, i dont wanna argue what i think of what critci chance shall be used since i dont have a clear picture what model FC have for AS, so i want to discuss the general features of the raw data material.

From what i see people are satisified with this minimum damage, this can be ok against lower mob, green ones which mean 20% reduction by AS against a mob in which case for me light green, lvl 80-100.

From a quick glance it seems the AS works like a damage multiplier is added to a normal shot. And if the damage is under a threeshold, ie max damage ie 410+580+14, 1004 damage (havent taking in account 2x title I Projectile Dam rings).

What i react upon is the low average damage, its not acceptable, all classes with root have better damage output or similar. The first shot wether its 2k or 3 k in average is nothing compare to the total hp on the mob its the base damage that is most important then. In this case the average is close to the crit damage of a normal shot, amazing poor skill i must say, since i only can using it once in battle. For you who havent followed the development from Fc, yes, u cant after patch 13.0 with nerf of cloaking device make more than 1 AS against same mob.

Further investigation will be made using correlation diagram technique. However before i do this it would be nice if i could get more info and feedback from Funcom or player who knows this better about damage calculation, AS damage calculation. Its alot of work behind this.

Canidy on Concealment:
I would like to see conceal work like this:

IT is the primary skill an agent has and should be used as pets are used for MPs/Engies/Crats - IT should be a powerful tool that other's envy as only agents can really RAISE their conceal to a very high level.

1) When doing missions, conceal never just "goes off". If you are seen, you should have the chance to run "out of the line of sight" and then conceal again.
2) There should always be perception vs conceal checks, and make the mobs have REALISTIC perception levels. Honestly the only thing that should see a maxed out agent is another agent so a Veteran Clan Spy should have a CHANCE to see you, other classes probably shouldn't.
3) agents are COVERT, why can't we sneak into missions, unlock doors/go through water etc without conceal staying? IMO only combat or a perception vs conceal roll should break my conceal. You say they can hear me, so what if they can't SEE me they can't attack!!!
4) I would like to conceal work in enemy cities against guards. How can agents get intelligence if the guards blast us? Again if we do something to attack that breaks. IE in 2ho if a clan agent is concealed and guards don't attack, as soon as they attack or get attacked, that conceal breaks and the guards can step in.
5) When missions goto stealth setting i want this to have more RP stuf for agents. Make our conceal more about just getting cash from missions, high level agents get/have more cash then we will ever use, we like to sneak to FEEL like we are agents.

Basically make conceal a skill worthy to have, I would like to see shadow bonuses/night bonuses, as well agents should have a special SHADOW CLOAK (maybe other lesser sneaking classes would like this too) I mean you made a 1k token board have +200 conceal, why not a cloak that is rare or you can only get with a certain title. Doctors have omni med suits where you can get +80 to treatment/firstaid by wearing it, how about a cloak that does something similar.

Make conceal more worthy, maybe take the stacking agent/adv buffs out, but make a 1000 conceal worth somethng special.

Lastly FIX cloaking devices, they are broken.

Canidy
LVL 112 Agent

[Morphex]

Please bump this all you agents out there that want change!

[lilnymph]

My wish list for agents.
I would like to see a couple of very major changes in agent class. Firstly I would like to say I don't really want to do much more damage in normal fights than they do now, or even slightly less (agents, please give me a chance to finish).
The first Major change I would like to see however, is the introduction of proper Sniper rifles. in real life at the moment a sniper rifle shots for up to a mile, so why are we capped at some stupidly low range? I would like to see it have a really long range, and a high hitting power maybe even up to 50% hit points or something. Sounds like a super weapon? I would also like to see it with a couple of large disadvantages, firstly a recharge rate of 1min+. This would reduce the sniper to doing just that, sniping, choosing carefully as his next shot will be a while coming. Even so, its still the perfect alpha strike weapon, yes? First shot with that then change to stigma, gripo etc? My second change would be to give it a minimum range of the present range cap, So if they can shoot you, you can shoot them with this gun. This means agents would have to be sneaky to get into a perfect position to shoot.
Which brings me onto my next point, concealment. Firstly, Please fix it :-)
Now, how about expanding it for PVP? maybe not show sneaking agents on other players client views unless they spot them via a perception check. or make them look like NPCS in the whois lookup window thing. Also some Nano's to change the info in them would be cool, so you could change the info on name, side, level etc. this would lead to some cool possibilities for the coming War :-)

[lilnymph]

sorry, must proof read better. the line that read

So if they can shoot you, you can shoot them with this gun

should have been

So if they can shoot you, you can't shoot them with this gun

[Morphex]

I have seen lots of threads about the range of sniper rifles, and as much as I want REALLY long range on em, and REALLY critical hits, but I have to agree that the rifle would be too good, but your idea was really genious! Really long reloading time would make you have to use two rifles. One sniper-rifle to get of the one critical shot, and then switch to a regular rifle like Flechette or Stigma.

This would really make the agent be an agent, and some kind of soldier wannabe

FUNCOM PLEASE READ THIS!
The agent really need some change to be able to truly call himself agent...

[______SecretAgentMan]

Originally posted by MorphX
I have seen lots of threads about the range of sniper rifles, and as much as I want REALLY long range on em, and REALLY critical hits, but I have to agree that the rifle would be too good,

Anybody ever play the multi-player version of Delta Force? I really loved that game and would dread anyone getting the .50 cal sniper rifle, as it was usually one-shot = one-kill, or at least 75% of your health. The sniper rifle in Unreal Tournament was pretty vicious, too.

I would like to see a powerful, long-range sniper rifle added, but how about this as a way to limit it's usefulness...

Whenever the weapon is equipped, your view changes to looking through a sniper scope - everything is zoomed way in, and you really have to pan around to see what's going on. You lose your map and all your other side screens while you're 'focused' on using this rifle, and you're not even able to see the target information that you get by hitting 'T'.

It would take a minimum of 30-60 seconds to equip and/or unequip (to allow your eyes to refocus) and it would only hold one round of ammunition at a time, and can't be reloaded while it's equipped.

The only skills needed to equip this weapon should be Aimed Shot and Rifle, and Aimed Shot should be higher than Rifle, unlike most "sniper" weapons available today.

If anyone can see other additions or modifications needed to keep this fair, feel free to add them on.

[agentgimpy]

So this rifle you suggest wold take a minute to recharge? Ok so you equip another rifle to finish the fight, but what if you had to use FP trader to equip this "super" rifle? Don't tell me that you would use one you could only equip with Agent only buffs, because with the current state of the game any rifle that close to your lvl would not do enough damage.

My idea?

Just reinstate the old aimed shot. The only reason it got nerfed was because of the inbalance it caused in PvP. Now that that is capped at 40% there should be no problem.

We are suppopsed to be assasins, but with the current set up about the most dmg I can do on a mob of the same lvl is 1/3 of it's Hp never more. This is just simply not a sniper shot. An aimed shot on a mob of your own lvl should yield at least 3/4 of their HP and one shot kills on mobs should be common. When doing "assasinate" missions you should be able to get the target in your sites and take him/her out with one shot. You don't have to keep trying to pick up the item in "find item" missions. And yes I think agents should be the only ones with this ability in those missions.

If the assasin that took out JFK was an AO Agent, John would still be with us today.

At this point in the game I am just a soldier with no AC nanos, or HP nanos, low expensive HP, and a slow gun that has only one special not three.

ok that's enough outa me for now.

PS: Cloaking devices are broken, please fix.

And also, since 13.2 my health drops when zoning again, although it was stated as being fixed in the last notes. It was working fine for me with 13.0 I use Bodydev implants and it seems that that is the health I lose when zoning. Possibly a problem with the bodydev/implant check?

[______________Othgar]

Bump... I just hope this isnt another of the many threads now dead about agent problems.. I'm guessing that there are just not that many of us left to post.

How about a roll-call as well?

[Seraphim]

I just wanna add an important comment to this topic, that is what i miss for agent class is what make us unique and worth the word assassin, that doesnt necessarily mean best SOLO player, that can be NT still ( from my opinion its the best solo if u know your hunting ground ). So there is many ways to reinstate the power of the class,

1) Change the range, its amazing short distance, i have HUD1+HUD3 = +35, and still 40 m is the max. I can understand u make the nano lines capped, come one guys who wanna be rooted by an agent 60 yards away? ( or NT btw )

2) Raise the average damage for AS, and correlate this damage to AS skill more closely and stop unbalance the game by choosing arbitrary numbers in your changes in a dumb test server with lvl 50 guys scrambling around with twinked set of eq. If u let AS be normal shot + % of mobs health you have the situation in better control, use the principle AVERAGE damage against equal level mob = 50% mob health + normal shot damage, correlated this with aimshotskill maxed.

3) skip 1)+2) and make us assassin for real, let us be able to toggle political zone value, so if another player think he is safe from the hand of the assassin, ie let a lvl 50 assassin being able to hunt mobs in 100% no fighting zone,s let a lvl 100 agent be able top hunt opposite alignment player at 75% zone and let a lvl 150 agent be able to hunt opponent in 100% no fighting zones. To balance this, change the flags on the guard so that they can FIGHT in 100% no fighting areas, its important.

4) skip 3) totally and add the following change to conceal, when u tab for cycle throught your enemy list, make a perception vs conceal check for even be noticed. The reason is that perception is a skill that have only use for using items like implants.

Just a thought!


P.S. sometimes the outfit make us feel better, u know what i mean guys? I wanna see better armor, its unfair see agent strolling around with their lousy sens/agility stuff. Let us have some decent looking armor that is usable for us in PvP, we look like clowns!

[Morphex]

Why is our armor flashy?!?!?

We are agents! Our job is too sneak around without being seen, and then we have to wear real flashy, attention-attracting armor like the steel ribbed armor?

Give us black, grey or some other quite neutral colour on our armor! I'd like black because I can sneak around in the dark with it...

Please FunCom!

Why make a class called the agent, that look like clowns, cant shoot any longer than others can jump-kick, and really are useless for anything else then buff-machines for groups...

We need a reply now!

Cz, Cosmik where are you? GET IN HERE NOW!

We are not even close to what we were promised when we shift-left-clicking on Agent profession 27th of July (or whenever the launch was)...

[Paffy]

I havent played my Agent now for a month. I tried few mission (NOTE: tried) and checked few things that were said to have changed.

Opinions:

AS is crap and not worth the IP

Conceal is crap and not worth the IP

Falses are almost worthless now because of new way of calculating nano cost.

Hmm.. oh but there went our "profession definations".

Well, you might as well delete the whole Agent profession. Less whines, I dont care anymore.

Fkit. This game is not even fun anymore.

Zarch and bunch of other chars (109 Agent included)

PS. Agent is still twitching on a ground. Here FC, hit it one more time with Hammer of Nerf QL 201 or perhaps we should keep it as official whine magnet!

[___________Nocturnal]

Bump, Especially on the whole clothes\armor issue.

[Morphex]

Give us an official reply on this thread!

We need to know what you are thinking, what you are planning, and if you are considering any of the changes we are suggesting...

We just want to make this game a better and more fun game to play!

[_______________Cuffs]

I have not been playing AO as long as a lot of the people posting on this forum but i for a short time played an Agent. Whilst playing this agent before switching to my current occupation and character i had to wonder over one issue. Yes, i have heard that at higher levels Agents can mock, if not assume the identity of another occupation as disguise, but then i wondered to myself about another issue. At even higher levels are agents able to mask their political standing. I mean, in other terms, is Example Agent who is of the CLans able to Disguise himself as an OT if say he wants to do some recon into OT lines?...If not, who out there thinks this might be a good idea...to disguise ones affiliation?

[Morphex]

Believe med we have asked FunCom a lot of times to do that, but I dont think they care about their costumers so much that they would actually listen to them.

By the way you dont have to be a higher level agent to disguise your affiliation, there is something called the low level application form too...

[Morphex]

FunCom please reply to this and share your thouhts with us!

[_____________Cloudeh]

in real life at the moment a sniper rifle shots for up to a mile, so why are we capped at some stupidly low range

Honestly, HELLO?!

YAZULE YOU CAN BACK ME UP OKAY?!

A MILE!!!!! Are you Kidding me?! Imagine that with a root?!! KLOLOL!O!L!<AM!OAL:$E<<G *cough*


Agent 1, Root.
Agent 2 a mile away, B00m.
Agent 1, Fly fly away in my plane.

Consider that thought.

A MILE!? No, Im sorry, By the time Id get to you id probably dead, then you r00t me and so on and so on.

Oh oh, Okay, reckon enforcer should be able to throw there weapons in a hissy fit for x1000000 dmg! yeah!

Also as for changing weapon from the long reload to usual.
I find that anyoing, I think its a damn cheat...sorta.
I mean,!!!!!!!!!


Oh yeah lets change my sword to ungh....another sword..um..yeh...k?!

So your saying to me, big gun. B00m.
Change gun , boom boom As whatever whatever.


Can I have some of that stuff your smoking?

[Seraphim]

All u can do is to is to make travesty and instead to find out what people meant u think its way cooler to humiliate and make yourself appear as the wiser guy, So attention all all hip-hop guys and those who cant answer this post properly and discuss this matter in a constructive manner to find your a place elsewhere cuz for me you are just a bunch of jerks.

I want and demand from you FC to work out a proper class system, that is my message, i dont wanna have any uber class nor SUXXOR ones, i dont wanna have all classes to merge into one single happy family class where the GUN is like a another support beam in the hands of an enforcer, what i mean FC is playing with words alot and i am tired of this BS from them.

What i am talking about is that, if u make a closer analysis of a the damage people do there is a similarity between Close combat weapon and range weapon, so close that u can simply just change words and u can project one weapon type / dmg right over to the the other type of weapon. What i would love is that FC should realize that the MAIN reason they cant make PvP system work is the targeting system, its to powerfule that u shall just press a button to notice where your enemy is, no chance for enforcers sneak up or make a charge up, its totally wierd that if i am 50 yards from a agent and wanna make a charge i know he knows he is under attackt even if that is from behind and he is not even close to me. What i am saying is, discard the weapon range limitation, let the agent be able to shoot from larger distant but then he must know where his target is.

What is the first and best step to improve tatrgeting system

1) It shall be a conceal vs perception check, and it shall take into account of obstacles like walls/house. This primarly for adventurers/agents, tghose with large conceal.

2) Scrambler, there should be scrambler to create a area effect to disable targeting system for a short time, and be locked for like 2 min for "recharge", this primarly for enforcer/MA.

3) If The attacker is out of line of sight of the enemy then no echo line "under attack" that gives the sharpshooter way to long time to just aim and fire this guy away.
Just a thought...

[_____________Cloudeh]

Im sorry, I ahd all this agression, and I popped, forgive me.
I shall vent elsewhere, any suggestions?

[Morphex]

Finally someone talking sense (not you Cloudeh)!

Yes FunCom give us difference between the classes! We are way to similar as for now...

When I chose my agent in he beginning og this game, I knew that being one I would probably never be the one to solo soldiers or enforcers in PvP, but it didn't matter to me, because I really wanted to sneak behind enemy lines, and pull off aimed shots from distance, and most of all be able to change profession whenever I like to.

Then came the nerfs and now all the agent is is another one of them soldiers, except he doesnt have the armor and HP.

You could might as well just remove the professions and breeds now, because we are all the same anyway aren't we?