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Thread: The role of Neutrals

  1. #1

    The role of Neutrals

    Since it seems alot of past Neutral issues have been brought up in this forum, I thought it best to post this information here.

    __________________________________________________ _

    1. Tab Key & PVP Issues - all too often neutrals are mistaken for one faction over another, omni/clan players in pvp do not take the time to identify target as against another pvp oriented player this would likely get them killed. Is there some way to make this not such a plight to neutrals? Several suggestions are a "Treat neutrals as hostile" check box in the options that is defaulted to off, or some kind of last minute friend/foe check "Target is neutral do you still wish to attack?" Alternately, we have been given the ability to have PVP titles, but the odds of surviving an alpha strike are very small and being forced to watch fellow neutrals (even team/guild mates) get slaughtered with no ability to come to their aid makes the advent of neutral pvp titles seem quite trivial. If we aren't to be removed from the tab key, can we at least get pvp rights in 25% zones? How will neutrals be able to defend
    their homes when the ability to take territory over gets implemented if they are unable to enter pvp combat willingly and on their own terms?

    Gaute
    **The focus on the Neutrals as "hostile" was done on purpose. When the game launched, the status of the Conflict was such that everyone not with, was seen as against.

    I am willing to let the Neutrals not be on the hostile tab, as their
    "independent" status are developing, and their former "mercenary" outlook is fading. I am not saying *when* it will happen though. I cannot, but now it is in our system.


    2. Miir clothing stores - Why do neutrals not have access to a simple name brand clothing store? The items offered are not any different between omni and clan stores, there seems to be no reason to deny neutrals access to or even a newland/borealis based Miir store, please enlighten us on this issue.

    Gaute
    *The original purpose of this was that the Miir clothing line was being sold only by organizations with a clear cut structure that could negotiate with the Miir organization. Neutrals being an assembled flock of individuals have no such structure. Again it seems that the neutrals are more cohesive in some ways now, but I doubt the cooperation selling Miir clothing is yet ready to invest into new shops or change their old.
    We shall see...

    3. ICC - How will the ICC come into play and will interaction with it
    be key to neutrals? What can we hope to see coming from them in the game? Will neutral players be able to interact with the ICC in ways that factioned players should not be able to do(for example perform functions for the ICC on rubi-ka that affiliating themselves with either faction may prove unwise).


    Gaute
    The ICC is not really an umbrella organization for the neutrals. They are like the Milky Way's version of the WTO, where all the corporate structures have banned together to promote free trade. Their investment on Rubi-Ka is basically to ensure that other corporations besides OT gets their "piece of the action".

    It has been convenient for Funcom to borrow their structure for their ARK's and GM's and so skew their function slightly over towards an UN function, promoting Human Rights and not only free trade. It is still important to know that it will take a lot of abuse from OT (or clans) before ICC steps in and tries to act as "world police".

    The political balance between ICC and OT is like that of UN and US (that is the ONLY comparison between OT and US!! They are both the Biggest! Please don't get hung up on this...). OT is the biggest member of ICC, but they still go their separate ways from time to time.

    It may be possible for the Neutrals to "perform" function for the ICC. That will be up to the Events team, but there is nothing to stand against it. I doubt very much that there will be a "formal" alliance, though. For that the Neutrals are too spread thin, not enough structured and not a real "faction" in the conflict. (Yet?)

    4. Quests/Items - Will we see neutral only quests or items? Will
    quests be made that are not faction dependant so anyone can enjoy them?

    Gaute
    Yes.

    5. Neutral Whompa Network - When can we expect to see it put in and could its placement be considerate to over crowding issues? What are the initial thoughts for destinations of the whompa network?

    Gaute
    It will come gradually from 14.2 and out.

    6. The ability to become neutral/resign from omni-tek or clans - Can we get a real logical answer that makes sense as to why you won't let players give up their side and become neutral? The original neutrals were originally omni or clan people, what has changed?

    Gaute
    *Being neutral is something that is endorsed by both sides. Once you have left that "side", you cannot shift back because you are "tainted" in the eyes of either one of the sides. This is the reason why you cannot go back to being neutral - you have to be dedicated!


    7. Capturing Territory and Towns - How will this affect neutrals? Will we be able to reclaim our lost towns and territory that are just swarmed over by over zealous faction players because they know we have next to no chance in pvp situations?


    Gaute
    Yes, you will be able to defend yourselves more actively. I do not know the exact details of this, but we might changes the PvP rules slightly for the Neutrals not to be sitting ducks in a defence situations. I will (and have) keep this in mind when we design this.


    8. Neutrals and Story Interaction/Reputation - With the advent of the Dust Brigade, neutrals suddenly became associated with a terrorist force (something neutral players aren't allowed to do themselves) that we never had any dealings with in the past, and no way to rectify this in the eyes of the factions, how can we as players improve the standing we have with other factions? When the peacetime between Omni/Clan broke down, neutrals found themselves targets of faction NPC's with little to no reason exactly as to why, from the perspective of Neutrals, it would appear that we are the bad guys and the other two sides would rather fight us than each other like they should, how can we change this?

    Gaute
    We have considered a more active "faction" system where people can align themselves "partially" with a side, and also "change" their standing with actions. There is no decision at the moment, and player feedback when asked about this (I think it was a couple of months ago) was "lukewarm".

    If this rises again as something important to the players, we will look into implementing it. For now, there are only two factions and a bunch of strong willed individuals that are perhaps turning into a faction?

    9. Meeting places, bartenders, guild housing - Will neutrals be getting any less dance club-esque meeting places, something more between rompa bar and a business minded meeting hall not out in open air? Bartenders in omni and clan clubs refuse to serve neutrals, its understandable them not wanting to serve their known enemy but it makes little sense that they won't serve a drink to a neutral. When can we expect to see guild housing put in? It was supposed to be implemented before the storyline
    began, but any information on this subject has been very scarce vague and uninformed.


    Gaute
    I am writing another article on guilds and housing today. That will come next week, most likely.

    I see no reason why the neutrals shouldn't be served drinks. I will put that on the list of changes... The problem doing this is that we might have to change the bar vendors to neutral, and then the guards wont defend them if they are attacked. Thus it might take some time, but I will look into it.


    10. Stores and Hacking for survival - Will we ever get a true superior store, with superior nano crystal vendors? If not could you perhaps consider a neutral only option of hacking into a faction store (moderate difficulty apporpriate to the store's type level range) or even faction insurance terminals (high difficulty for the level the zone is geared towards). Appropriate skills could be Breaking & Entering and Comp lit.

    Gaute
    Neutral sup. Nano shops will be implemented.

    __________________________________________________


    These answers were in reply to some questions posed by Neutrals of Rubi-Ka. The post can be found here.
    Earn free game time and play with your friends[/b]

    Anarchy Online Community Representative

  2. #2

    Post Neutral oppinion

    Thanks, Cosmik.

    [One of the very few cases where I found information on this board before I detected it somewhere else.]

    My 2 €-cents:

    1) Good, finally. The earlier, the better.

    2) Hmm, is this really a point? I respect those hard core role players, that even deny to create a faction account for shopping purposes - well, not really.

    3) I like Gaute's ideas. Nevertheless, the ICC is still (mostly) useless for us Neutrals. How about some Neutral only shops (just to annoy the faction players)? Please remove those clan terminals from the ICC headquarters, either put in both (all) factions or neutral only. (if not already done, haven't been there for a while)

    4) Good. Go ahead.

    5) Curious. Actually, what is the difference between an Omni, Clan or Neutral Whompa? - Ah, I got it: Neutral Whompas are guarded by neutral guards, slaughter food for the bored faction players. Well, good, some more places to have 'fun' for the simple minded.

    6) Really appreciated. If you want to be neutral, you have to go the hard way - leave it like that. (my opinion)

    7) Defend - hear me - yes, I want to defend my territory and other Neutrals. I don't want to attack somebody else (without a reason) - most Neutrals I know are rather peaceful. Looking forward to the ideas in this sector.

    8) I think, most Neutrals don't want to be 'a third faction' (byassed by personal opinion), but we want our chance to interact with the story. Things like the Dust Brigade are a danger for all of us, irrespective of affiliation. We are organized well enough to build full neutral teams and to participate in there ( I claim so).

    9) Agree. A business man (bartender, food provider, merchant) usually doesn't care, whom he sells his goods (just take a look at RL). Maybe the price is a bit higher, but ... . Anyway, for game balance and facilitaded interaction, open up the consumables vendors for neutrals. You feel so naked without a bottle at the party.

    10) A big step for neutrality, a small step for Funcom. Ehh, leave our car shops like they are, they are much better than the OT(/Clan) shops (still separated into Advanced and Superior).

    So long,

    Max(imilian) - Neutrals are patient, they have to be.
    100% curious

  3. #3

    Re: Neutral oppinion

    Originally posted by Maximilian
    Thanks, Cosmik.

    5) Curious. Actually, what is the difference between an Omni, Clan or Neutral Whompa? - Ah, I got it: Neutral Whompas are guarded by neutral guards, slaughter food for the bored faction players. Well, good, some more places to have 'fun' for the simple minded.
    Actually I think this means a redesign of the whompa network so that NLC is no longer effectively a node in the clan network. The Tir and/ or Athen portal(s) (preferrably both) would be taken out, and things would be changed so clanners could whompa directly between Tir and Athen. Then you'd have a neutral network NLC --> Borealis --> Last Ditch.

    This would cut down on a lot of the traffic in NLC, alleviating lag problems caused by clanners going through NLC to get from one of their big cities to another. As an added bonus, you'd have less random jerks dropping in to kill neutral guards.
    Numi7, Omni-Tech Employee
    Solitus Engineer
    Division 3 [Omni Reclamation]
    RK2

  4. #4

    I think you are right

    Thanks FeloniousPunk, hope it comes, like you described it. Would be the very smallest network, but fine as it is.

    Originally posted by Maximilian
    Actually I think this means a redesign of the whompa network so that NLC is no longer effectively a node in the clan network. The Tir and/ or Athen portal(s) (preferrably both) would be taken out, and things would be changed so clanners could whompa directly between Tir and Athen. Then you'd have a neutral network NLC --> Borealis --> Last Ditch.
    Obvious consequences:
    1) The ammount of low level clanners would be significantly reduced (I expect same level distribution as for Omni's maybe) and
    2) Lag should go down a bit

    Yeah, why not.

    Immedeatly follow up questions:
    1) Would Jobe be neutral?
    2) Are there other neutral towns a Whompa conncection to would make sense (Meetmedere - no (Grid), Harry's, would be nice, but I doubt it (Grid, level req.), ...)
    3) ... ?

    So long,

    Max(imilian)
    100% curious

  5. #5
    Oh come on, make a Miir shop for the love of god.
    ~Chris

  6. #6

    Re: I think you are right

    Originally posted by Maximilian
    Immedeatly follow up questions:
    1) Would Jobe be neutral?
    2) Are there other neutral towns a Whompa conncection to would make sense (Meetmedere - no (Grid), Harry's, would be nice, but I doubt it (Grid, level req.), ...)
    3) ... ?

    So long,

    Max(imilian)
    1) Good question. Since it's billed as the city of nanotechs, will only NTs be allowed in? Neutral NTs?

    2) A lot of neutral towns have a really iffy status. Harry's is neutral, but Harry himself is close to OT, so probably wouldn't have a neutral whompa (and as you point out, there's a grid terminal there). 20K is the same - Neutral, but very close to OT and has a whompa to Trade. They could take out the OT whompa and put in a neutral one and add it to the network, I suppose.

    What is the back story on 20K anyway?

    3) Gaute hints that the neutrals may be more developed as a faction, so this is a logical first step. Maybe they'll throw in some story characters and have the neutrals crystalize into a at least somewhat organized third force?
    Numi7, Omni-Tech Employee
    Solitus Engineer
    Division 3 [Omni Reclamation]
    RK2

  7. #7

    What I want

    I want some rich Neutral Organization to pick up where Moog left off after he got dumped for funding by Omni-Tek.

    I would like to see 10-3 developed by some bright, talented, Independant and placed squarely in the laps of the true entrepeneurs of Rubi'Ka.

    I want 10-3 finished, given 75% gas and a grid node/save terminal.

    I'm soooo tired of not having a place to call my own. Let the Clans have Newland. They infest the place anyways.

    10-3.

  8. #8
    Regarding #6, I would much prefer that we had the ability to change to any side (including neutral), but there need to be much stiffer penalties. Either this, or we should not have the ability to change sides at all (with the exception of a profession or two, that I will specify later), and once you walk through that portal in player creation, it's over and done with. I actually think that that would make the most sense, role-playing-wise.

    While I understand how things are set up for creative purposes, does it really make sense that we can go from being Omni-Tek citizens to Clan members? If we cannot go back to being neutral because we would be "tainted" in the eyes of the sides, then how in the world would we not be perceived as "tainted" if we totally switched sides in the conflict?

    It also bothers me that in upcoming patches, the agent class will be able to transcend all of this. It's a trait that is quite interesting, but doesn't that give the role-playing agent a great advantage? And shouldn't the fixer also see something like this? After all, fixers are supposed to be the world's "shady" characters... I think that betrayal and switching sides to meet our "needs" is an integral element in the fixer role-playing experience. This is assuming that the fixer class, by nature, is comprised of amoral opportunists, which I think would be great. Right now, I only see them as being fast-running SMG specialists with grid access. In my mind, the agent and fixer (and trader, if you take the profession literally) should be the ultimate neutral classes, and as such, should have certain neutral abilities open to them.

  9. #9

    Neutral Whompas

    Originally posted by FeloniousPunk


    Actually I think this means a redesign of the whompa network so that NLC is no longer effectively a node in the clan network. The Tir and/ or Athen portal(s) (preferrably both) would be taken out, and things would be changed so clanners could whompa directly between Tir and Athen. Then you'd have a neutral network NLC --> Borealis --> Last Ditch.

    Heck, I'd get rid of the 20K-Trade whompa too, and put in one to NLC or Borry instead. Omni already has a quick and easy way to get to 20k without the whompa, and it's amusing to see a "neutral" outpost have its only significant transportation connection with an omni city.

    Mind, NLC seems much the same, only clan-oriented. I'd get rid of both clan-destined whompas there. If the grid is good enough to get omnis there, it should be good enough for clanners, too.

    I don't know if I'd want to have any further whompas in a neutral network. From the hints I've seen, I think perhaps the whompa networks are going to grow too large as it is. However... since Bliss is getting a whompa it might be interesting to put a neutral one in the neutral TLR outpost.

  10. #10
    I disagree with pulling any whompas from Newland City- in RK2, at least, I see it as being the central hub that connects Clan and Omni territory, and it's the most populated region in which interaction between the two can be organized. I also feel that NLC is the friendliest place for beginners- every character that I have started, be it neutral, Clan, or Omni, has spent a great amount of his training time in NLC. It's small and easy to navigate; yet is still densely populated. In fact, over-population may be its one weakness. I wish that Borealis saw half of that activity.

    But that being said, NLC does appear to be much more clan oriented. But it is, of course, located within clan territory. I think it might be an idea to remove one of the Clan whompas, and replace it with one to a northern Omni-Tek town. Perhaps have a direct link between Old Athen and Tir, instead?

    But I'm sure that the evolution of the whompa system has already been planned out, anyway.

    However, I also see the advantages of your idea to have NLC stand on its own, BOFC. Though I think that neutral characters need to be far more defined in their role before this becomes an option. I wouldn't want to cut low-level Clan members off from NLC, and at this point having a purely neutral city wouldn't really help the "undefined" neutral position. In my mind, it would only become a staging ground for high-level sided players.

  11. #11
    Originally posted by Verloran
    Regarding #6, I would much prefer that we had the ability to change to any side (including neutral), but there need to be much stiffer penalties. Either this, or we should not have the ability to change sides at all (with the exception of a profession or two, that I will specify later), and once you walk through that portal in player creation, it's over and done with. I actually think that that would make the most sense, role-playing-wise.
    How about making it harder for people to change sides? Instead of having a application form to fill in, you have to seek out someone on the side you want to be with. They then have to escort you to some administration building where you declare your allegiance. Note the "Guest" cannot go into shops or attack citizens and can't be harmed unless they try killing citizens.

    This way, it'll make people really think about which side they want to be with.
    Last edited by EarthForce; Jun 16th, 2002 at 18:44:22.
    EF.

  12. #12
    Originally posted by Verloran
    I think it might be an idea to remove one of the Clan whompas, and replace it with one to a northern Omni-Tek town. Perhaps have a direct link between Old Athen and Tir, instead?
    Has my vote.
    postcount++

  13. #13
    Dorfone
    Fixer
    XIII Neutral, Rk-2

    I was Rambo in the disco
    I was shootin' to the beat
    When they burned me in effigy
    My vacation was complete.

  14. #14

    Talking Neutrals and Shopping

    I am not sure if this was addressed so please forgive if it was.

    I am constantly getting flamed because in order to really buy from other players I have to shout on the key shopping areas (because you can forget the chanels in Newland and other neutral sites) Or Use the OCC for which after one request I was threatened by some Uptight Omnies and said I should be banned from the game for trying to do business in the OCC chanel.

    Make it so Neutrals can ust the Omni Shoping chanel when in Trade ect aqnd the clan when in Tir ect. This wont throw the balance of the game and it will allow us to shop with out alts doing it for us or being flamed and threatened.

    I should point out that atleast with the clan I was never threatened with bodily harm and told I should be Band.

    Thanks

  15. #15

    Oh and one more thing

    Why cant we go from a faction (clan or Omni) to Neutral?

    Even in your story line people do it.

    Make it eat your token boards (except for agents) That will keep folks for just Jumping Neutral at the drop of a hat
    Last edited by Koyote; Sep 15th, 2002 at 00:12:00.

  16. #16

    A thought on Neureals and PVP

    Ok I am throwing this out there....


    The force of Neutrals should be a deciding force in many situations.

    They should not be fodder *but* a tactical advantage....
    So here is my suggestion;

    Let neutrals set an allience flag

    So if it's set to say Clan, in a PVP area they could tab Omnies but not auto tab Clan and that Omni could Autotab them but Clan could not.

    This may not be an easy system to put into place but I think it would add the advantage of making friends with the Neutrals.... but be careful.... they could turn at any moment against you... even betray you...

    Just a thought... as I think Neutrals and their support should be Key

  17. #17

    Question My .02 creds on neutral PvP

    Just a thought here, that might be worth some looking at...

    On the issue that neutrals cannot currently start a PvP combat:

    As it stands now, a group of omni or clan Pvp players can all attack a neutral player, and none of the neutral players in the area, have any choice but to either sit and watch, or run so they're not next.

    Why not make it so that if a player starts a Pvp combat with a neutral player, the other netural players can assist the person being attacked, either by making the attacker open to attack by anyone, or at least by using the /assist command for the person who was attacked...

    and if this has been suggested a few hundered times before, I think it's worth saying again.
    Deagnor 204 Solitus Fixer (Omni) Director of R.U.R.
    ---*** Other RuRians ***---
    83 Opti Pistol Advent Motafrancis | Ovnor 161 Solitus Engineer
    117 Nanomage NT Knightweaver | DiceSlice 83 Opti 1HE Advent
    145 NanoMage MP Miner49 | Mohelunz 69 Solitus Doc
    141 Atrox Enf Cluedozer | Icewrench 63 Opti Fixer
    Icelo 57 Opti Keeper
    Sig updated Sept 2, 2008

  18. #18

    Re: What I want

    Originally posted by Bionitrous
    I want some rich Neutral Organization to pick up where Moog left off after he got dumped for funding by Omni-Tek.

    I would like to see 10-3 developed by some bright, talented, Independant and placed squarely in the laps of the true entrepeneurs of Rubi'Ka.

    I want 10-3 finished, given 75% gas and a grid node/save terminal.

    I'm soooo tired of not having a place to call my own. Let the Clans have Newland. They infest the place anyways.

    10-3.
    Yeah, that would have been nice. But instead we got ****ing Omni-Tek moving in and Clanners taking Wine.
    I bet one day they'll stop serving us at Reets.

    /G13
    pirates. with lasers.
    Are you having an argument on the internet, again?

    Gene13 - on a space odyssey since 2001
    XXX - N

    Some day your ship will come in, but you will be at the airport.

  19. #19

    Re: My .02 creds on neutral PvP

    Originally posted by speardancer
    Why not make it so that if a player starts a Pvp combat with a neutral player, the other netural players can assist the person being attacked, either by making the attacker open to attack by anyone, or at least by using the /assist command for the person who was attacked...
    The game is already able to keep track of whether your character is in a fight or not. If neuts are not taken off the hostile tab for faction players, why not implement a system whereby a neutral player cannot attack another in a 25% zone unless that player is currently in a fight? That would allow neutrals to help out others who are under attack, without being able to start the fight themselves.

    Of course, you could take it one step further so that neutrals can't be attacked in 25% zones, unless they're already fighting. Basically, you'd be immune to attack (or at least wouldn't tab as hostile) unless you'd made a conscious decision to get involved in a fight that was already underway. A sort of "sprawling brawl" setup.

    Comments?

    ~R~

  20. #20

    i had a longer post but i deleted it

    Basically i think neutrals should have no attack penaltys. I would like to see the emergence of a "viable" 3rd faction on rk.
    "In this great future, you can't forget your past"

    Robert Nesta Marley

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