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Thread: Players Council Meeting Info

  1. #61
    You know at one time I would have agreed that FC is not doing a good job with story events, but after recent events Im not so sure.

    Last Friday night I was playing my low level MA. While organizing a team in Old Athen I spot a GM. You know the ones with the green letters for their name. He was a fixer trying to get people to go to Hope for some lets say not quite legal items. His words. Now me and a couple other members of my team RP with him for half an hour or so. He really wanted us to go but we were just to low level to last long in Mort. Now this RP session was done in vicinity chat and in the crowded area around athen whompas not in some back corner where no ones goes. Not 1 high level person stepped up to take this guy up on his offer. I heard 3 or 4 "Hey can I get a run buff" but that was all. Now we find on the news section of the page that Hope was a story line event.

    Now that whole ramble was ment to show its not all FC's fault. Im not a fanboy no mater what you think. Ill be right there saying somthing to FC when I think somthing is wrong. Everyone hear gets disgusted because FC dosent listen or FC isnt helping. Ever put the shoe on the other foot. How do you think GM's feel when an event is put together and no one steps up to the plate.

    Personaly I think this is nothing more than a way for Kirrana to get her name on the boards and to make herself look important. The RP tools are in the game you can choose to use them or not. The people who want to RP are in the game you can choose to use them or not. What it boils down to is the fact that not everyone knows how to RP or are not good at it and those that want to RP but aren't good at are the people you need to work with.

    This council is a bad idea no matter how you look at it. These forums and the email addresses we have for funcom are our communication channels. We as players need to start using the tools we have and quit whining that FC is doing nothing

  2. #62

    Lightbulb Parties?!?!?!

    Kirrana sorry to tell you this, but parties are not events, they have no real storyline, or RP value, maybe if you tried planning something worth while people might show up.

    Cayll

  3. #63
    Parties aren't events? Next party dance with me Cayll Parties are indeed events.
    ==============
    Jone "Snowdomes" Sosnoski
    Clan Martial Artist
    "Lots of power in a little package."

  4. #64
    *blinks, fills up dance card to say "Snowy" across the board*
    General Hershel "Kasimir" Jurik

    President of Division 9 R.S.G.E

    Fixer
    RK-1

    Braumiester of the Pagan Bartenders, wielder of dual SSo8s

    Stealer of hearts, creds, and anything not nailed down!

  5. #65
    Well considering 80% of the public events are parties I am sure theres a lot of people who would consider them very much events. The fact your dont like parties is no reason to assume they are not events

    But just for you

    Omni Tek Day
    http://forums.anarchy-online.com/sho...threadid=17310

    I have also run 2 guild leaders meetings as well. Oh and I have not really counted guild events as most guilds do those as part of the course.


    Plus you for the 3 rd time now has not answered my question where are the events you did. I have looked on the player events boards but cant find a post nor can I find any news about your events on the offical site.

  6. #66

    Exclamation HAHA

    I am not gonna get in a pissing contest with you, because it is pointless, and all this is a waste of time, if you want to arrange mass events then contact me, but this whole thread has just turned into a mud throwing match, and I think it is about time to lay it to rest.

    Cayll
    Last edited by Cayll; May 2nd, 2002 at 02:56:09.

  7. #67
    He He Cayll I love it,

    You post on the boards twice and send me person messages in game asking me what events I have done. Then I very kindly go to the effort of proving it to you and you then call it pointless.


    I think the least you could do is so say sorry or admit you where wrong. Still perhaps if you read about my events it might give you some idea of how to plan your own if you ever do so


    Kirrana

  8. #68
    well, i think that parties are a social event thingy styled...

    What ever, i like looking at this thread, lots of ideas here
    "It's your life. Keep it up! Keep it real!"

  9. #69
    Hrmm...

    How can we , the players of AO, elect a "council"?
    sure a council sounds good, but it has to be elected by the people of AO, just like any other democracy.
    Remember this.

  10. #70

    oh

    I think the word council gave people the wrong idea its more of a focus group.

    Oh also remeber that in all democracy based voting the people that you vote for are chosen for you bring into question what is a democracy. In fact the whole things is fixed with key people always standing in safe seats.


    But this has nothing to the focus group of course I will look into the issue of voting.
    Last edited by Kirrana; May 2nd, 2002 at 13:41:59.

  11. #71

    problem

    Read with interest this and previous talk about forming the player council.

    Did not attend council meeting because: a) don't like OOC meetings in game (people seem to find it hard to stay ooc)
    b) have fairly high opinion of Funcom events (except server crashes)... and ongoing storyline and tend to feel that its largely people expecting too much too fast - or only having limited IC info about things that makes them feel its not there.

    Have to say I think Kirrana and some of the others (Savoy, Tarryk?) are putting a lot of effort into the game and successfully running events a large number of people enjoy.

    However would like to reiterate points made - all the roles this council is designed to fill are part of the ARK programme... and that has the sensible fact that your player characters are not involved - therefore you cannot further their storyline interests at the expense of others. Go join ARK if you want more resources or info - otherwise continue with the great things you run for your guild and other players

    Also disturbed by the attitude that is if you support this council you are working for RP in the game if you are against it you are not that already seems prevalent among its supporters - its for this reason people are so nervous. The council is the creation of a clique - if we chose not to try and be part of that council we are not part of the clique. Should Funcom recognise it as a key point of response (and why they would when they already have ARK's is beyond me) then they may be influenced to run events the way that particular clique wants.

    So this post which adds little new is not about flaming Kirrana.... its about saying to CZ and Cosmik there is significant opposition to the idea of a council being seen as a representation of RP'rs views.

    How is it that Tekkor can earn the trust of the agent community to represent them... and yet we are not prepared to let Kirrana do the same for RP'rs. I think its simple 1)RP issues are far more complex than game mechanics 2) Tekkor being the point of contact for game mechanics for agents is unlikely to mean that he recieves personal in game benefit for it - but that seems to be precisely what those on the council would seek if not benefit for their characters involvement in story - recognition for their contribution to events over that of others

    So I think the issue is Kirrana - if you want to do this - against opposition and don't want to become an ARK - which surely is the better way - find a way to convince the RP community that you deserve our trust - because otherwise I think you'll find people will continue to post here - in order to make sure that Funcom do not respond to a clique...

  12. #72

    /boggle - Huh??

    Originally posted by Kirrana
    Oh also remeber that in all democracy based voting the people that you vote for are chosen for you bring into question what is a democracy. In fact the whole things is fixed with key people always standing in safe seats.

    But this has nothing to the focus group of course I will look into the issue of voting.
    I've read your post four times now Kirrana and I have to say I still don't quite understand what you're trying to say here?

    And actually what this is really isn't a focus group either. If this were a true focus group it would be run by Funcom
    ==============
    Jone "Snowdomes" Sosnoski
    Clan Martial Artist
    "Lots of power in a little package."

  13. #73

    Re: problem

    Originally posted by Merasandrin
    How is it that Tekkor can earn the trust of the agent community to represent them... and yet we are not prepared to let Kirrana do the same for RP'rs. I think its simple 1)RP issues are far more complex than game mechanics 2) Tekkor being the point of contact for game mechanics for agents is unlikely to mean that he recieves personal in game benefit for it - but that seems to be precisely what those on the council would seek if not benefit for their characters involvement in story - recognition for their contribution to events over that of others

    So I think the issue is Kirrana - if you want to do this - against opposition and don't want to become an ARK - which surely is the better way - find a way to convince the RP community that you deserve our trust - because otherwise I think you'll find people will continue to post here - in order to make sure that Funcom do not respond to a clique...
    You bring up some great points Merasandrin. In other games I have seen certain individuals rise and become VERY well known and respected and then once that is achieved they are in a better place to talk to everyone about things and players are generally more willing to follow that one person's lead.

    In this situation the only thing I know about those who want to lead this group is that one runs a news site of sorts and contributes a lot on these boards. Others are mostly unnamed but supposedly they run sites and work with the tech people. I really don't even *know* these people. And seeing that the only thing I'm learning here is that the group doesn't even seem sure of what they want to represent, do, or even propose and that so far it really seems like those in "charge" are very biased and closed minded to opposing opinions. (Even if you say that you are not that is exactly how it appears from the comments made here in this thread and at that meeting.)

    Anyway, Merasandrin again you made some great points.
    ==============
    Jone "Snowdomes" Sosnoski
    Clan Martial Artist
    "Lots of power in a little package."

  14. #74

    Re: /boggle - Huh??

    Originally posted by Snowy


    I've read your post four times now Kirrana and I have to say I still don't quite understand what you're trying to say here?

    And actually what this is really isn't a focus group either. If this were a true focus group it would be run by Funcom
    I think what she's saying is that you don't really pick the candidates that you vote for in an election. The candidates are picked by the parties. Sure you have a write in vote just as here in the game each individual has the right to contact Funcom themselves. And that individual probably has as much impact with Funcom as the right in voter has with getting their candidate on the ballot.

  15. #75
    Well, actually we do to a degree pick our candidates. The primary elections are all about that. And yes technically the party itself then nominates the winner but in fact we're still voting.

    I'm still confused by the "safe seat" comment as well. Would still love to see a response on this from Kirrana herself.
    ==============
    Jone "Snowdomes" Sosnoski
    Clan Martial Artist
    "Lots of power in a little package."

  16. #76
    Well this my own personal views but I do laugh when people start on the democracy band wagon or this idea of freedom of speech.

    In no country in the word do these ideas stand the tests of truth, oh dont get me wrong they are far better than some system in the world but to think your free or living in a true democracy is a joke.

    In the UK the various parties choose who is going to run in each election and where they are going to stand. The key members in the party are given safe seats to stand in. This areas in which that party in strong and in theory that having little chance of losing.

    The fact some of these people have have never been to the place they are suppose to be respresting is a joke.

    So even before you get the the polls after the battle in the vote is already made for you.

    Mind you as I said this had nothing to do with my focus group its just me.



    Erm

    but that seems to be precisely what those on the council would seek if not benefit for their characters involvement in story - recognition for their contribution to events over that of others


    Tell me where do you come up with this stuff, you dont know the people on the group let your happy to wild decide what we are looking to do.

    You tell me you are worried about the group representing your views but you seem quiet happy to represent the views, targets and goals of a group whos memebers you know nothing about.

    I dont mind defending my views but when your making crap up like this. What next


    FOCUS GROUP SET TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

    I am glad I have done this, I have gained a great insight to the things Funcom have to put up with.

  17. #77
    Originally posted by Kirrana
    Well this my own personal views but I do laugh when people start on the democracy band wagon or this idea of freedom of speech.

    In no country in the word do these ideas stand the tests of truth, oh dont get me wrong they are far better than some system in the world but to think your free or living in a true democracy is a joke.

    In the UK the various parties choose who is going to run in each election and where they are going to stand. The key members in the party are given safe seats to stand in. This areas in which that party in strong and in theory that having little chance of losing.

    The fact some of these people have have never been to the place they are suppose to be respresting is a joke.

    So even before you get the the polls after the battle in the vote is already made for you.

    Mind you as I said this had nothing to do with my focus group its just me.



    Erm

    but that seems to be precisely what those on the council would seek if not benefit for their characters involvement in story - recognition for their contribution to events over that of others


    Tell me where do you come up with this stuff, you dont know the people on the group let your happy to wild decide what we are looking to do.

    You tell me you are worried about the group representing your views but you seem quiet happy to represent the views, targets and goals of a group whos memebers you know nothing about.

    I dont mind defending my views but when your making crap up like this. What next


    FOCUS GROUP SET TO TAKE OVER THE WORLD.

    I am glad I have done this, I have gained a great insight to the things Funcom have to put up with.
    First off Kirrana, nothing personal but is English your second language? I'm wondering if that's perhaps part of why I often can't quite understand some of your commentary.

    The reason many people believe that the people on said council/focus group/tea party would be looking out mostly for themselves is that negative comments about this whole mess are shunned totally. We were called griefers at the meeting for having an opinion other than that of the organizers.

    Also, we are not even being told WHO these people are specifically. That's a real confidence builder.

    In your quote above you make it sound like those chosen were because of "recognition for their contribution to events over that of others" Ah. So they are being sort of rewarded for being on this council. That's how I read it. You're patting them on the back for a job well done and appointing them to the tea party group? You're saying they are more important than other people because you know of things they've done?

    If you think we're all totally misunderstanding what it is you want to do perhaps you should write up a formal proposal for how it might work?
    ==============
    Jone "Snowdomes" Sosnoski
    Clan Martial Artist
    "Lots of power in a little package."

  18. #78
    Film director extraordinairre RandaZ's Avatar

    Chiding... followed by hope?

    Originally posted by Merasandrin
    Also disturbed by the attitude that is if you support this council you are working for RP in the game if you are against it you are not that already seems prevalent among its supporters - its for this reason people are so nervous. The council is the creation of a clique - if we chose not to try and be part of that council we are not part of the clique. Should Funcom recognise it as a key point of response (and why they would when they already have ARK's is beyond me) then they may be influenced to run events the way that particular clique wants.

    I guess the above was somewhat aimed at me. In my humble opinion, everyone has a different take on what it means to roleplay: whether they believe it's running events, creating community sites, or just playing their characters amongst their circle of friends. All are more than valid, and who's to judge that any one of them is the proper way to roleplay.

    So, how does this relate to why I jumped into the fray? First, there appears to be a misconception as to why I'm here; that is, the misconception that I equate support of this council or focus group directly to supporting roleplaying, and that those against it are not for roleplaying. I can certainly understand why you (Merasandrin and probably others) think so. But, to be frank, what I believe to be non-supportive of roleplaying is the judgmental and close-minded attitude that people have.

    I for one don't know if this council will actually be beneficial for us. It holds some promise, as do a lot of ideas presented in this forum. But there's also the sliver of a chance that everyone's worst nightmare can come true if Funcom decides to only listen to Kirrana's cabal.

    Who's going to be right: the proponents or the opposition? To me, it doesn't really matter. IMHO, the end-result means far less because we're intelligent creatures. As intelligent people, we can overcome any problems that might arise. What I am worried about is the recent community response we've been having towards roleplaying ideas.

    So you might not agree with Kirrana's take on roleplaying or what needs to be done about it. That's fine. I don’t expect this to be a holding-hands sing-a-long reunion. In fact, Kirrana and I don’t see eye-to-eye on my issues about how to handle roleplaying. But there’s at least some form respect of each others intentions and ideas. If I don’t agree with how she’s handling something, I’ll give a suggestion (e.g. renaming from council to focus group). That’s what I expected to see on this forum.

    But instead, we’re treated to the “what gives you the right!” messages. The “I think Kirrana is ...” posts. Perhaps I incorrectly hold the Roleplaying forum to a higher standard than the rest of the bulletin board. Even if this idea is not what you wanted, what does saying “this isn’t it. I want better communication from Funcom” any viable alternative? Of course we all want those goals. Stating it doesn’t make it so. The question at hand is how to achieve it and focusing directly on the how (and not who) is vitally important.

    So how is this a close-minded attitude? It’s closed-minded because of the simple fact that it doesn’t even give the idea a chance. To me, giving an idea a chance is not just looking at it and saying it won’t work. It’s the process of going through it, identifying the weak parts, and then figuring out some way around those parts. Where is the “I don’t think this part will work... here’s an alternative” post? Only at the end, when you’ve exhausted all possible alternatives, do you declare a new idea dead. By that time though, it really isn’t a new idea is it?

    As it currently is, we, as a community, have skipped right to the end. Never minding that we might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

    I guess, like many things in life, the onus is on those who come up with the ideas to prove that the quick-draw detractors were wrong. But is that a good community? No. That’s just an example of a closed-minded community that will never see beyond what’s in front of it. A community that’s ultimately doomed to it’s own stagnation and extinction because all the people with ideas, and those whom would have been willing to put effort into implementing it, will just leave.

    And this is the reason why I have been vocal about this issue. Not just because I think Kirrana’s idea holds some promise. But because no one else, up to now, cares to offer anything other than the standard quick-fire “no no no” response.


    Originally posted by Merasandrin

    How is it that Tekkor can earn the trust of the agent community to represent them... and yet we are not prepared to let Kirrana do the same for RP'rs. I think its simple 1)RP issues are far more complex than game mechanics 2) Tekkor being the point of contact for game mechanics for agents is unlikely to mean that he recieves personal in game benefit for it - but that seems to be precisely what those on the council would seek if not benefit for their characters involvement in story - recognition for their contribution to events over that of others

    So I think the issue is Kirrana - if you want to do this - against opposition and don't want to become an ARK - which surely is the better way - find a way to convince the RP community that you deserve our trust - because otherwise I think you'll find people will continue to post here - in order to make sure that Funcom do not respond to a clique...
    First off, thank you for actually being the first to critique my analogy. I agree, roleplay issues are more complex than game mechanics for a specific profession. However, that doesn’t necessarily mean that the same structure is not scalable (with some minor alterations of course).

    The foremost alteration that comes to mind is that this council (or SIG) for roleplaying cannot say as confidently as Tekkor that it represents the entirety of its target group. In the end, it’ll be up to Cz and Cosmik to make the call as to how much they want to weight the voice of this SIG in relation to the other communication channels. This weight will likely involve some metric such as the number of supporters of this SIG, or perhaps with a finer granularity, the supporters behind a specific report. Of course, this isn’t that much different from Agent Sector with it’s own list of supporters in the form of their unofficial forum.

    But personally, I find it hard to judge now whether I am or am not a supporter of the issues this SIG would propose in the future. I cannot fathom how some other people can already make that decision.

    As for other alterations to the general structure, I’m drawing a blank right now. However, I’m more than open to any discussion on specific things that would be different between the Tekkor/Agent Sector structure and the proposed RP-SIG.

    Your second point about personal benefit is a real concern that I share too. But I think I should break the term ‘benefit’ down more concisely as that single term could mean a great many things to different people.

    Recognition
    Personally, I don’t mind if other people experience recognition from their work in AO. After all, many others have had some form of event recognition whenever their articles are posted on the official news site. And I highly doubt FC would bother putting some ‘FC special stamp of approval’ on any event this SIG makes.

    Materialistic Gains
    Personally, I’d consider this a no-no. While I think it would be great if event coordinators could spawn non-combat items and such (wouldn’t everyone want a dinglehopper!), this should be left to the purview of GMs and ARKs.

    Communication
    I think this is the primary concern that most people have: that there’s a possibility that this SIG might have some secret lines of communication to Funcom. In honesty, Tekkor was able to individually converse with Cosmik directly regarding agent issues (instigated by Cosmik). And the reason we trust Tekkor is because he posts it publicly. Mind you, I believe in that instance, it was a call for agent concerns (so naturally he needs to ask the people on his forum). In any case, I personally believe it’s important that this SIG post any relevant communication that it has with Funcom; first, to encourage public trust; second, to encourage trust from FC that this SIG does talk to the people it says it represents. In the worst case scenario, where the SIG does all its Machiavellian machinations behind closed doors, Cosmik and Cz won’t give any credence to this group because they’re intelligent men and very well know that this group aren’t even close to representative. That’ll be a short-lived SIG and nothing to worry about right?


    As for becoming an ARK, there’s a lot of responsibility behind it. A lot of which has nothing to do with roleplaying. To anyone else reading this, please do us all a favor and don’t go into the ARK program for the sole purpose of running events. The primary purpose of the program is help other players. Events are a perk that only comes after many, many hours of hard work helping others – which has a good chance of burning you out (which would explain why some ARKs get frazzled during events ).

    Personally, I think there’s more than enough room for both. For instance I don’t think Kell Tashio would have had time to run RNN and be an ARK at the same time. Like wise for Tekkor and Agent Sector (sorry for not mentioning all the other people like Virral and such... long list... short of space ).


    Merasandrin, I think your last point about establishing trust is vitally important. Now let’s see if anyone can propose solutions to this (other than the obvious and thinly veiled “I want to be a part of the council”)


    Tap


    P.S. And sorry to disappoint the detractors out there: while I could possibly be a member of the Illuminati, I’m not part of this "uber-secret" council. Mine is a wholly independent viewpoint. Sorry to burst your bubble.

    P.P.S. Kirrana, I do hope you’re eventually releasing the names of those on the group. See above for Trust issues.
    Slotine Zembower
    R.U.R. Member (RK1)

    Tappert Solminski
    Tailor of Rome-Blue (RK1) [currently MIA]

  19. #79

    Dang video card.....

    Originally posted by Tappert
    So you might not agree with Kirrana's take on roleplaying or what needs to be done about it.
    I think it's hard in general for a lot of people to agree on a perfect across the board definition of roleplaying. I didn't think that was exactly the issue here that was being discussed though at one point there was a 'my events are better than your events' type of debate.

    Even if this idea is not what you wanted, what does saying “this isn’t it. I want better communication from Funcom” any viable alternative? Of course we all want those goals. Stating it doesn’t make it so. The question at hand is how to achieve it and focusing directly on the how (and not who) is vitally important.
    I disgree here. I think the opinion that this should be Funcom's job is a very worthwhile opinion in this matter. Because some people feel that if this group ends up doing certain things Funcom might get even more lazy and drop the ball altogether. I think people have every right to firmly back this as an option. The problem others see is that it takes it out of our hands. But that's the way it works.

    To me, giving an idea a chance is not just looking at it and saying it won’t work.
    Some do not think it will work. Some do not like the way it's being handled. Some of us do not seem to think that we've even been given enough information to honestly judge! Many of the people here have said that it's in and of itself not a bad idea. It's just the process and the details that are in serious doubt.

    It’s the process of going through it, identifying the weak parts, and then figuring out some way around those parts. Where is the “I don’t think this part will work... here’s an alternative” post? Only at the end, when you’ve exhausted all possible alternatives, do you declare a new idea dead. By that time though, it really isn’t a new idea is it?

    As it currently is, we, as a community, have skipped right to the end. Never minding that we might be throwing the baby out with the bathwater.
    You know. I have a new video card and I need to check the settings. I'm reading this as you don't feel anyone else have offered suggestions or ideas that might either help the council/SIG idea or that nobody has offered alternatives. I copy/pasted to a single post yesterday a bunch of comments/ideas that were previously given by people within this thread. Maybe it's only visable on my screen. Gotta check those settings.

    I guess, like many things in life, the onus is on those who come up with the ideas to prove that the quick-draw detractors were wrong. But is that a good community? No. That’s just an example of a closed-minded community that will never see beyond what’s in front of it. A community that’s ultimately doomed to it’s own stagnation and extinction because all the people with ideas, and those whom would have been willing to put effort into implementing it, will just leave.
    Well, personally if someone is going to step up to the plate in this manner I expect that person to be unbiased and to listen to all opinions and be calm enough not to freak out when not everyone automatically agrees to the idea. Frankly I do not see that as good leadership. I frankly feel that it should be the responsibility of someone presenting an idea to listen and respond and be prepared to answer questions. Otherwise why should a community even listen?
    ==============
    Jone "Snowdomes" Sosnoski
    Clan Martial Artist
    "Lots of power in a little package."

  20. #80
    Film director extraordinairre RandaZ's Avatar
    Snowy,

    Okay I fished it out. No problems with your video card. I’ll concede that there were suggestions or ideas expressed on either side – but let’s take a closer look to see how applicable they are. Please note that everyone reads things with biases (even I) and that context IS important.

    The bold is the segments you commented in your earlier post (page 3). I’ve decided to add the preceding sentence/paragraph in hopes of letting you understand in what context I made my comment about there not being any suggestions or ideas expressed. I do not intend to imply that you misquoted (if anything, you quoted rather well). It’s just that even proper quoting is still subject to very loose interpretation.


    Cruel - Frankly, what Funcom needs to do is come up with a better way to 'poll' the player population. And that means they shouldn't force the player to come to the boards to have a voice. An in game poll is possible for organizations, why not for the player base as a whole.
    The constructive point as you called it was aimed at Funcom. Personally, I lump this with the “this isn’t it. I want better communication from Funcom” response I mentioned in my earlier post. By all means, this is a good idea; one that deserves its own thread - Not as a crux of an argument against another idea.


    Snowy - I am all for a group of people putting out documents or petitions about certain issues. I might even sign some of them
    As you know, I agree with this suggestion. If anything, the post from which that quote was taken from was the faint glimmer of hope that it wasn’t just irrational flaming (IMHO) by all parties involved. Otherwise, I wouldn’t have bothered with this thread for this long (yes, I can be dense at times, but not THAT dense) Okay, so you get one cookie.


    Cruel - My suggestion? Present your council idea to the community leaders employed by Funcom and have them choose those that will represent their chosen areas well. If they don't do a good job, ultimately the players will "moan" enough so that they will have to remove this person or again, the game will be in trouble.
    Good sound bite. But wait... let’s hypothetically say that Kirrana’s idea runs. And that she does form this council or SIG. Isn’t it still up to Funcom’s community leaders to choose whether or not they want to listen to this SIG? And likewise, if the community ‘moans’ enough, wouldn’t this SIG (and perhaps the community leaders – ‘this person’ was vague) have to be removed?

    Cruel - Put the accountability on Funcom. Have Cz, Cosmik or whomever they choose be responsible for this SIG. Therefore answering the accountability.
    Any SIG is responsible for it’s suggestion and requests. Cz and Cosmik are responsible for the choices they make. Because Cz or Cosmik hand-picked the people or not, they still have that responsibility. These last two suggestions are catchy. But ultimately, they map exactly to the same idea they were suggesting to replace. In my view, that’s not too useful an alternative.

    Cruel - Decide upon each general area that should be covered. (Roleplaying, Guilds, Events, every class).
    Here’s one that actually adds to the Kirrana’s original idea. My bad. Your second cookie.

    Cruel - Suggest Team Leaders for each of these areas from people you think would be beneficial to the community. With ultimately the say going to Funcom. (They may have other data showing others whom you dont' know that could be helpful. Especially in the class situations).
    Although I wonder about how such an idea can be actually implemented, I’ll have to give this one a third cookie since it is a new idea (if we decouple it from the Funcom has say issue). Too bad the pissing contest obscured this as I personally would have loved to see how Cruel envisioned this working.

    Cruel - Each of these team leaders could then gather together a team of people to help them figure out what is the most pressing issues within each area.
    Interesting idea. And something I hope Kirrana implements in the council thingy. Maybe not necessarily team leaders, but perhaps something to at least represent different sub-SIGs. Cookie (4th).

    Cruel - Have Funcom give them [team leaders] a special sig that simply sets them apart as people who have information but are not developers.
    It’s working on the principle that these people are a ARK-type level appoint by Funcom. No cookie, but possibly crumbs.


    Eurus - About real game mechanics issues or changes you wish to see. Get people together and write an e-mail petition on an issue (not use the /petition command) with as many player voices as you can. Then send FC that petition
    Not mutually exclusive to Kirrana’s idea. Doesn’t build upon it. Doesn’t even address it. In fact, this was suggested in another thread previously and can be something this SIG does (Eurus doesn’t suggest this - my take on his comment).

    Eurus - Also threads here are great for feeling out issues. If you think it's an issue start a thread and see if the people agree. Don't think that FC doesn't read these threads, they do.
    Not mutually exclusive to Kirrana’s idea. Doesn’t build upon it. Doesn’t even address it. It doesn’t matter if he’s right about it. A good point to remember but hardly something I’d say would be in discussion to Kirrana’s idea. (mileage may vary )


    Kasimir - Great, so the mighty 12 decide my fate and the fate of the world..um..I thought the idea was that the payers decide? that's the point behind this council, right? How can any 12 people decide what we all want? Are you going to ask us all to vote? why even bother having a council then? Why not just a mass vote on a website? What is this council going to do for me that I can't already do myself, namely, whine to FC?
    Aside from it hidden in a rather um... (well you know).. post, this still falls under the “this isn’t it. I want better communication from Funcom” as the first quote did.

    Kasimir - ..but I do NOT agree that this is a proper way to solve the issue of storyline, rp, etc. why? .... 6) You want events? Make your own..little player-created and guild-created events show up all the time, and now the new Events calendar will facilitate those tremendously!
    Actually, Kirrana already made events before this (as I sure hope the other members on that council have too). Again, by all means, this is a good idea; one that deserves its own thread - Not as a crux of an argument against another idea because 1) it doesn’t build upon the original idea and 2) it’s not a mutually exclusive alternative to the original idea.


    Laeni - When there was an earlier roleplaying meeting, a number of arks and GMs turned up to listen to what was being said. (Para) Numbers talk. A group has a better chance of getting Funcom's ear than an individual does. For those of you who object (some quite strenuously) to what Kirrana has suggested well give us your alternatives.
    Personally, I think Laeni’s quoted sentence was related strongly to the second paragraph. If she was referring to the RP Conference hosted a while back, the ARKs and GMs showed up because we semi-promised a large grouping of people to discuss roleplaying in AO. As Laeni says, numbers talk – especially if we’re all grouped together for easy digestion by Funcom’s community advisors.


    Intra - Funcom do need to talk to us more, that much is obvious. They have already given us the methods to use to talk to them. we just need to get an organised way of getting information back from them. (Para)
    For instance, go back to the weekly reports that used to be posted. Every week we could get a summary from the devs on where they are on certain issues and where they are looking for in the future.
    Sorry but I’m going to have to throw this one in the “this isn’t it. I want better communication from Funcom” basket. Again – good idea, but very sparsely related to Kirrana’s idea and could have been better served by its own thread.



    Okay, so there you have it. You’re right. I shouldn’t have said there were no suggestions or ideas. There’s been plenty. How applicable each is actually to the idea at hand is very subjective. I’ve spent the time to clearly lay out my take on it.

    You may hold the opinion that any and every idea, regardless of applicability, should be heard. I no doubt agree. But I believe where it’s heard is just as important as what is heard. For that, most of these suggestions would have belonged in their own thread – not here. As it stands, four cookies by the time you posted the above (3rd page) is kinda low on the signal to noise ratio don’t you think?


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    Slotine Zembower
    R.U.R. Member (RK1)

    Tappert Solminski
    Tailor of Rome-Blue (RK1) [currently MIA]

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