Players Council Meeting Info

[__________Lovekitten]

hmm

[_____________Kirrana]

"May you live in interesting times"

It may sound good but in fact its a curse as people dont like change I accpet that. Also I have listen to your ideas about the council and taken them on board. I have also listen to many other players who have supported the idea, are a bit worried about certain aspects and people that hate the idea.

I guess I should not aim so high as trying to please all the people all the time. As I learned from doing events you have the people that enjoy them, those that dont, and then people who still turn up just to tell you they hate the event.

But if a few displeased could not stop me doing events I dont see why I should let it stop me doing the council either. But I am open minded and will listen to any other comments you care to make.

Kirrana

ps cruel

Within the meeting, which I was at, dissenting opinion was not listened to but was rather brushed aside or interrupted by someone who was put forth as a part of the organizers of that meeting. Even after other people among that meeting wanted to hear.

just out of interest cruel who where you and who did you think we did not listen to only if this did happen I would like to say sorry.

[_______________Snowy]

Actually Kirrana you personally scolded Cruel in a very rude manner when she was given the floor by people who had chosen to keep a que for you so that you could concentrate more on the details of the commentary.

Perhaps next time you run a meeting of this nature you might want to specify who should run the que in advance and then stick to it. There were a few people who's comments were bushed aside or at least that was how it felt.

Nakoda for example had a lengthy response and he had some great things to say as well. But you and others continually tried to shut him up and get him to wrap things up. This led me to believe that the meeting was not intended to run very long because you did not expect opposing opinion.

And from the actual log I will quote this:

12:47: Kirrana: Angdao it was not as bad as it seems we had two hours of good comments that have been taken on board. Sadly some points where off focus and not help thats all

Off focus. I didn't read this comment in the first log I read but saw this in the version you posted. This one comment alone says to me that opinions and comments that were not of the same thinking as yours were not welcomed.

[_____________Kasimir]

I have SERIOUS issue with the concept of a player-created "Council" for the purposes Kirrana intends.

Kirrana, first and foremost, I'd like to say I understand your concerns, and to some extent, I even agree..but I do NOT agree that this is a proper way to solve the issue of storyline, rp, etc. why?

1) 12 people huh? What 12? How will they be decided on? Will I, and more importantly, the thousands of others on RK-1, get a say on this? Will they be evenly divided between Clan, Neutral, and Omni? Lets face it none of the players, even those with alts on both sides, are 100% objective in this war.

2) Great, so the mighty 12 decide my fate and the fate of the world..um..I thought the idea was that the payers decide? that's the point behind this council, right? How can any 12 people decide what we all want? Are you going to ask us all to vote? why even bother having a council then? Why not just a mass vote on a website? What is this council going to do for me that I can't already do myself, namely, whine to FC?

3) How do I garauntee anyone but myself has my best interests in mind? As for EVERYONE's interest, forget it..you have too many people, from too many cultures/ways of life/time zones/nationalities/ideas to appease everyone, or even a majority.

4) Last time I looked, whether or not we're the players..it's FunCom's game. They built it, they decide its future. They have a storyline in mind. I believe them on this..yeah it's been pretty slow lately..I mean come on.they also have an expansion pack and the special edition, as well as the class "love" that they're throwing out ever couple of patches. There's a lot to do.

5) Speaking of which..anyone think of how they feel about players usurping their game? Whether or not you wish to work with instead of against Cos and the crew, this is effectively player mutiny.

6) You want events? Make your own..little player-created and guild-created events show up all the time, and now the new Events calendar will facilitate those tremendously!


In short, I see absolutely no benefit from this, and to be honest, even if FC DID allow this to come about, the wrong person in the wrong place could just muck up everything for everyone..as I said in another forum, absolute power corrupts absolutely, and those in the Council would have a lot of power.

Kas out.

[gnuman]

ffs. People who actually try get the game better gets flamed and burned by idiots that don't do ****E themselves. Makes me sick. I was at the meeting - just to see the same persons come with their negative opinions - not giving 1(!) constructive opinion.

Good luck with the work Kirrana. People are too busy with their own egos in this game.

[_____________Kirrana]

Snow tell me how when cayll had to floor can you say this was not of topic.

11:53: Cayll: others along wiht myself have been succesfull in arranging larege evetns without the help of FC
11:53: Vacuos: ----- After Cayll: Bradleystroke, Nakoda, Snowdomes, myself.
11:53: Silkex: ahh there it comes..heh..
11:53: Cayll: So why do you need Mommy to hold your hands?
11:53: Faydaway: lol
11:54: Cayll: Are you all incapable or just jealous?
11:54: Cayll: Stop sitting around like old women and go start an event
11:54: Nakoda cant help but chuckles
11:54: Cayll: It very easy

You might live in a world where you accpet such actions as on topic I dont but thats up to you. I could post loads more comments like this that had nothing to do with the meeting I arranged. I believe they where off topic, but is a free would you can make your own minds up.

Very rude

erm let me see

11:34: Kirrana: Cruel pls wait in line its unfair to others

11:36: Kirrana: Look stop I want to hear all the peoples views But in order to do so we need to have a queueing system


Damn how rude was I, asking people to wait in line to ask questions or make comments.

Nakoda did make some interest points and I would have loved to hear more from him sadly there is a lot of other people I would have like to listen to. I gave Nakoda 10 minutes to talk before aking him to make his points after 15 minutes he was still going on in fact he was talking for about 25 minutes which in fact lead to a number of people not beening able to talk.

I did request that Nakoda talk to me more after the event so I could listen more but for some reason he has yet to do this or send me an e-mail. Read into that what you will.

You got any more comments snowy ??

[_______________Snowy]

Originally posted by Noer
ffs. People who actually try get the game better gets flamed and burned by idiots that don't do ****E themselves. Makes me sick. I was at the meeting - just to see the same persons come with their negative opinions - not giving 1(!) constructive opinion.

Good luck with the work Kirrana. People are too busy with their own egos in this game.

Opposing opinions are bad. But it's ok to come and call people names. Lovely.

If you read the opposing views carefully you will actually see some suggestions. You will also see the specific things that many of us have an issue with. In fact, our posts were quite a bit more constructive than yours just was.

[Kithraks]

Kirrana, I think one of the main obstacles to having this envisioned entity to help improve communications between FC and roleplayers is the worry that the group might use their power irresponsibly.

You still have a core of supporters and I think that you should build a small dedicated roleplaying group and just have fun. As it stands each guild leader or roleplayer that was present at the meeting has their own idea on how to do things and noone is willing to compromise. Ever been to a council meeting where all 10 members voted only for their own idea? I have and eventually an idea I was in support of won by default with two votes.

Basically for now, just work with the people that want to work with you and let those that aren't interested go their own way.

[_____________Kirrana]

Thanks Kasimir


1) Yes the 12 will be made from clan neutral and Omni, but you miss the point this is not about deciding what events to do or who will win the war.

2) I AM NOT DECIDING YOUR FATE, I AM NOT TAKING AWAY YOUR RIGHT TO TALK TO FC (there is a clear only this is 3rd time I have said this )

3) I am not I never said I had anyone best interests in mind

4) erm this was not a question and if your point was is FC game yep your right dotn worry I am not taking over yet ( yes it was a joke dont flame me pls

5) again you think I am taking control NOPE I AM NOT TAKING CONTROL !!!!


6) I do in fact I have done a lot of events perhaps as many as FC which should be worrying you more than my player council.

In fact it does not matter if FC gives it the go ahead or not, I can still do it I might not have regular meeting with FC but I dont see how you can say that the council would not have the same right as any player.

Hope that helps

[Laeni]

When there was an earlier roleplaying meeting, a number of arks and GMs turned up to listen to what was being said.

Numbers talk. A group has a better chance of getting Funcom's ear than an individual does. For those of you who object (some quite strenuously) to what Kirrana has suggested well give us your alternatives.

You don't want this, you don't want that. Well what do you want?You act like you will be forever forbidden to contact Funcom if this "council" gets set up. You will always have the right to contact Funcom. Whether or not Funcom listens to YOU is up to Funcom.

Give some positive and CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. You don't like the idea of a council then tell us how you want this issue of communication with Funcom handled.

OK, my concerns regarding the council is that it not degenerate into a Dev bashing session. Anything that is presented to Funcom should be presented in a constructive fashion. It's very easy to let meetings turn into b!tching sessions (and I've done it myself) but we must remember that the people at Funcom are human beings with feelings and no one wants to listen to someone telling them how incompetent they are especially when the person doing the complaining doesn't understand the complexity of the issues involved.

I think it should also be emphasized that the 12 people are only contact people and that they should be open to players coming to them with their ideas and concerns, an ombudsman if you will.
Players will always be able to directly contact Funcom but one person who can give a list of suggestions/concerns to Funcom might be more useful than a multitude of posts coming their way.

[_____________Kasimir]

My my, someone's a bit bit on the defensive today, hm? Relax Kirrana.


I have to agree with Charles on this Kir. Get yourself a nice little guild dedicated to rp, like Belle Rouge and some of the others out there, and go thrw some parties or have some events or something. The Council you're talking about just seems either A)dominating or B)pointless.

If you aren't taking over, (and I say right now that I believe you in truth, I'm just not so sure other people elected to the majestic 12 may agree at some point in the future.)...then...what is it this group can do that I can't right here on the boards..or in game itself? I just see

Leani...yes I see your point. Numbers talk. Total agreement here. My point is, though, I prefer to talk directly, not through an intermediary. I just don't want anyone else speaking for me. Yes, I understand, I can speak for myself. So can the other bazillion people. So why again do I need this council? Forgive me if I don't see the point. And before you ask, no I was not at the meeting,m but I have read a log of it.

No offense is meant here so take it easy.

[_______________Snowy]

Kirrana, I never once said that I didn't think Cayll was rude. In fact he did step out of line in the queue and spoke out of turn. I do believe however that he chose to do so in part because he saw your commentary with each speaker as taking away some of their time as well. Obvious you were running the meeting and the moderator so all I think this says is that perhaps the meeting needed a better structure and a bit more organization.

The line of text that I quoted in an earlier post where you talked about comments that were "off focus" really didn't make me think about Cayll's interruptions. It made me think that in general you didn't like some of the opinions presented at the meeting. I will admit that I can't know for sure which comments you were referring to. I'm just standing by the fact that a comment like that coming from someone who seems to be proposing to lead this council/SIG shows off the bat that there is some bias and some leaning towards your own opinions more so than those other "off focus" ones.

As for you posting the few lines about when Cruel was talking you really missed many in between. You really took those two lines way out of context. I define your rudeness as not being more responsible for your own meeting. You DID have someone handling a queing system for you. Some people had new comments. Some people had replies to comments. Someone who has a reply to comment number one really should get the floor before someone who's ready to make a totally new point don't you think? That is what these volunteers were keeping track of for you. I'm not going to argue the point further by posting the entire section of the log which I found to be pretty rude but it's there for anyone who cares to read it. And it doesn't change my opinion so I'll leave this point be.

Nakoda was taking notes and instead of bringing up his replies to each individual comment he waited since things were unorganized and it was easier for him to just altogether wait his turn to present what he had to say.

If you are going to run a meeting like this you should be prepared for it to go long. Offering to talk to him afterwards doesn't give him the benefit of having his opinions heard by everyone. It only gives him the benefit of talking to you. But this was an open meeting. My guess is that is part of why he hasn't contacted you further. Because it was things to discuss with those assembled.

And that brings me to this - the people that assembled did so because they care. They do care about what happens in the game. They care about the players. You seem to want to dismiss some of us because we don't agree with you. Yet I can guarantee you that I certainly didn't spend a few hours of my Saturday morning at that meeting for any other reason than because overall - I do care.

There was also someone there who I got the impression that was somewhat one of the people working with you on this project that was also rude. Personally I got the impression that the term used for those of us who had opposing view points was "griefers" and I take serious offense at that.

I do not doubt that you are trying to do something positive. But I disagree with the method. And I think you have now lost your own focus.

[_______________Snowy]

Originally posted by Laeni
For those of you who object (some quite strenuously) to what Kirrana has suggested well give us your alternatives.

You don't want this, you don't want that. Well what do you want?You act like you will be forever forbidden to contact Funcom if this "council" gets set up. You will always have the right to contact Funcom. Whether or not Funcom listens to YOU is up to Funcom.

Give some positive and CONSTRUCTIVE feedback. You don't like the idea of a council then tell us how you want this issue of communication with Funcom handled.

We have in our previous posts given some other ideas on things. I don't feel that I need to go back through the posts and list these out for you now.

I think it should also be emphasized that the 12 people are only contact people and that they should be open to players coming to them with their ideas and concerns, an ombudsman if you will.
Players will always be able to directly contact Funcom but one person who can give a list of suggestions/concerns to Funcom might be more useful than a multitude of posts coming their way.

Well, considering that nobody even knows who these 12 people are going to be it's hard to even see right now what kind of representation that this will be.

[Skymarshal]

I dont care what anyone says, I am 100% behind anyone and anything that intends to jumpstart the storyline in game.

Look, guild, and player based events go so far... but unless FC holds events... Im not getting anything out of the world that is new, interesting, exciting... I remember going to the ICC escorts, and the sabullum stuff... that was a blast... and i have had many guild events that i have attended.. and in fact... Things seem as if they may pick up again... but for anyone to try and shut down a group of people trying to make the game more enjoyable is insane. Im not flaming anyone, but those against the council or whatever its gonna be... Understand that FC isnt stupid. They try thier best to please everyone. It's hard... Gamers are intent on complaingin about everything. But jsut understand that everyone's voice will be heard, if you dont like this council... dont partake in it, keep comming here to the forums and voicing your opinion that way.

Just don't think that shuttign the people who care about the game down is going to do anything.

Look, not that you dont care... but if you do care... Do something about it rather than b1tch that Kirrana is trying to do something about what she thinks is a problem.

/rant off

[_____________Kasimir]

Sky, you misunderstand me. I'm not saying what she wants is a bad thing, per se..if her idea works the way she wants, that'd be great. I'm just not very positive that it will.

[_______________Snowy]

This is going nowhere fast so I'm going to wrap up once and for all.

Obviously this would not make it so that anybody can't contact Funcom. The concern is that if Funcom were to see this "council" doing their job for them that they wouldn't bother with us even less than they do now. And that would mean that we are more reliant upon this council to include our ideas, comments and suggestions to Funcom in their little report or whatever method of communication they choose.

If someone wants to take the initiative and do things to improve the game. Go for it. But DO NOT label yourselves as if you are in fact representitives of the player base. Because you do not represent everyone.

Also, know that in doing something like this you will continue to get dissenting opinion and some people aren't always going to be very diplomatic about that. Don't get upset when you find yourself up against that because it will happen.

[_____________Kasimir]

Thank you Snowy..that's exactly what I'm trying to say.

[______________Babadi]

Simply put, this is the opposite of the solution we really need.

We don't need an elite council of 12 attempting to talk to FC. We've had tons of people talking to FC in the past this is NOT the issue.

We need FC coming to us and making us feel like they truely listen. A steady presence on these boards and other modes of communication is what we need.

There has NEVER been a lack of feedback from our side, and there is NO reason for your "council" to have a larger voice than anyone else on this forum. You were NOT elected, and you are obviously NOT supported by even a 50/50 majority here.

What we have here is people trying to make themselves feel more important than they really are in a Gaming enviornment.

p.s. Sorry to be a jerk, but if you think saying every comment here brings you closer to the cancel button is going to make me cry. Get a clue, I couldn't care less.

p.s.s. Just because FC's story is no where to be seen right now, doesn't mean my story is gone to. Babadi still lives his daily life in RK. Events are happening, It's NOT hard to plan an event and have fun in this game.

[_____________Kirrana]

Snowy open meeting like that are never very easy, it does depend on people willing to respect each other and give other people a chance. This never happens in a large group, I wanted to hear as many people talk as possible in the meeting so they had their say.

The average concentration span for a human is 20 minutes, the event as such lasted 2 hours 40 if we had discussed it each point as we went a long only about 2-3 people would have been able to talk.

Sadly this is the price we pay, I did however offer to speak to any one after the event and also at any other times. A few people have chossen to do so. But in all I was able to capture most peoples views and there where some great points and ideas.

In future meetings we will be looking to organise things a lot better the hope is for them to be in IRC.

Yes the queuing system did get a bit confused between the two of us, I am sorry it was a bit hard to keep up with and purple text was a bit hard to read when people where raising there hands. The order did get mixed and was not help by people shouting out and telling others to speak, and rest to be quiet. But yes point noted I will look at a better system.


Nakoda he had the floor for 25 minutes and gave us a nice speech which people listened to. I dont see what else I am suppose to have done ?

I did expect the meeting to over run and it did, but I have to draw the line somewhere, its unfair to the other people not to let them have a say as well as nakoda.

I am sure the players at the meeting did care however I do question how some people where showing that they cared. It was clear to me and if you read the logs some people seemed out to cause as many problems as possible.

If you have been in AO any time and have run or been to any events these people always turn up, but thats the way of it.

A few people did lose their cool with some of the people trying to cause trouble and I can see why they did.

If people cant respect others under these conditions I dont see why we should have to respect them. You may feel differently thats up to you.

However I want to state that these people where very few, I suggest you read the logs it is clear who I mean.

[_______________Snowy]

I remind you that

1) I WAS THERE

2) I read the log afterwards twice.

Honestly the most disrespectful person in that room I think was actually someone who as I said before - was possibly one of the organizers or at least a supporter of the council idea. It serves me or anyone a purpose to name names here at this point so I won't do so.

And dang it I'm really done here this time. *sigh*