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Thread: Players Council Meeting Info

  1. #1

    Players Council Meeting Info

    Again Thanks to all the people who attended the meeting. I will try and give a breif summary of events at the meeting here so you dont have to wade through the massive log which I will put up on my site for those that wish to read it.

    I started the event by talking about the council and listen to peoples comments and trying to give a bit more feedback on how it will work.

    The Reason for the Council is
    The reason for this is I feel often FC dont really understand the root of the problems for the players, or perhaps more importantly dont see the solution which often we the players see. The current problems of the storyline is just one aspect.

    Is the council replacing CZ,Dai,Cosmik.
    No the council does not replace or do there jobs in fact I hope the council will work together with them. But the council is about making FC more accoutable to us the players.

    We then had a few questions about how the council will work etc.

    Ok the coucil will be about 12 players each player will focus on an aspect of AO, be it the storyline, communications, test server, Rping etc etc. They will cover the boards but also listen to the players like this is meeting and then hopefull once a month meet with the people in FC whos job it relates to. The idea is to get some real answers from them

    So people wondered who was on the council and how people got on there. Well people are selected based on what they doing in AO and for the community. It was would be nice to have people voted in as suggested, but this is not going to be possible to do for now at least. We have seletced a number of people for the council already but we are still looking for more.

    Also as stated at this current time the council is not focusing on the proffesions as I feel these require a lot of work and understanding to cope with. We need to start the council working on the smaller areas first before trying to cover proffesion issues.

  2. #2

    One more question.

    This is a great idea and I would be interested in participating. Does this council have Funcom's backing?


  3. #3

    I don't support this council


    Who are you, another player, not paid by Funcom, choosing whether my voice is heard by the products maker or not? You have no vested interest in this product other than your own entertainment time. That in itself means that only issues you find "worthy" will be heard.

    Who elects this council? If this council is a representative of the 'Player community' it better get a vote from every dang player in Anarchy Online.

    While I agree it would be wonderful to see more roleplaying events and see more intereaction from Funcom with its players, its up to them to provide it. My voice as a consumer of Funcom's product should be JUST as important as anyone elses, on the council or not.

    Frankly, what Funcom needs to do is come up with a better way to 'poll' the player population. And that means they shouldn't force the player to come to the boards to have a voice. An in game poll is possible for organizations, why not for the player base as a whole.

    If you want this unelected council to do something, have them suggest topics to be polled by Funcom. Otherwise, don't think to speak for me on any issue.

    I point back to previous posts you've made Kirrana, where you've outlined your troubles with Funcom and people have responded behind you giving you enough of a voice that people listened and came to the meeting. Why change this? You did a great job then. Stick to it.

    It's my money that's spent every month, and that money says that my voice is just as important as yours. Don't try to take that away from me, or frankly I'll find another game to play where the Development company will appreciate every one of its consumers.

  4. #4

    I also do not support the council

    I just re-read the log of the meeting and my feelings are even stronger now.

    This "council" that can not even be elected on should not have it's voice heard any more loud and clear than anyone else who pays a monthly fee to Funcom.

    I thought the idea of getting players together to discuss issues that they felt were important was good. But I disagree with this council.

    I would like to also point out my impressions of the meeting. From where I sit I knew few people at the meeting. I live in the Pacific time zone and know you Kirrana only from here on the boards. Most of the people at that meeting I did not know. There are a good number of player events that happen in the times that I am online and I saw only one or two of the people from these events represented at this meeting.

    It appeared to me that the people who called this meeting and who walked into it already in favor of this council were not very receptive to the possibility that not everyone saw their solution to be a good one. Taking that into consideration I wonder how this council proposes to serve the good of the player population if it is already seeming to ignore opinions that are different from their own.

    I agree that it would be helpful for both players AND Funcom to consider the opinions of the paying customer about things such as the ongoing storyline. However should Funcom decide that it's easier to listen to this "council" I will have serious issue with that since I do believe that everyone's voice should be heard. It is Funcom's job to keep their players. We pay them, remember?

    I do not pay you, a "council" that is not even a representation of my gaming peers. That this council was basically already formed at the time of the meeting this weekend in Baboons seriously gives it very little credibility to me.

    Should this "Council" post as if they are one voice of the people I will make sure to remind Funcom that it is not in fact a unanimous opinion of the player popluation. And should Funcom ignore me blatantly I will put my money where my mouth is and find another way to spend my entertainment dollar.

    It's really that simple. If you don't like it - you can always cancel. That is where the power of the player is. It's in our pocketbooks. Not in a self appointed council.

  5. #5

    Thumbs down

    Snowy about nailed it. As long as your council only attempts to represent the 12 folks that are on it, and not act as if it has some greater voice among players, feel free to do whatever you want. Just do not act if you are "speaking for the people", because you are not, and if you try to act that way, there will be some very angry people.
    Vice President Cristin "Jypsie" Kaba
    Division 9 : Rational Science and Genotype Enforcement
    R.S.G.E Division 9

    Webster is your friend.

    You who consider yourselves actors and performers,
    if you play a compelling tune the people will dance.
    - Leetraider

  6. #6
    If you think things in AO are fine then fair enough, if you think the comments here are being picked up and presented to FC in a fair manner then fine.

    If you think that the story line, tech support issues patch problems are ok then fine.

    I dont, I do not feel that the players views are very well represented in FC. I dont think there is enough communication between the two groups, or feedback in the boards about issues.

    Worst yet I dont seen enough action taking place to solve the problems. I dont have all the answers but my solution is to try and do something else and the player council is just one way.

    Call it what you will, player council, focus group etc it matters not but its objective is to improve the game. I hope you see this as a good thing. The people selected are those that work for the game on fan sites or who create events, or look after the tech support or are on the test server.

    If enough people moan about the council I will not do it and in time I will leave the game because I believe it will never change. The people running the community sites feel the same to a lot of people are on the edge of giving up. For many this is a last chance to try and chance things.

    I have not set up the council for my own good, I do not spend time setting up events or writing reports on my fan site for my own good. I do enjoy doing it, but the enjoyment I get is from seeing me making a difference to the poeple playing the game.

    I get messages from people telling me how much they enjoy the site I run, or about the events I have done. This drives me on to do more.

    But each post I see about how dare I do this takes me one step closer to the cancel button.

    I dont ask for much but give this idea a go before moaning about, lets see if it works, if it makes a difference if not we will try something else.

    At then end of the day at least I am getting off my arse, doing something about making this game better which is more than I can say for a lot of people.


  7. #7


    That exact attitude is what I'm talking about.

    Already you've dismissed MY voice. I understand that all of the people you've mentioned are working hard for this game in either a news related or community fashion. That's fantastic and you have no idea how much I truly appreciate they're additions to the community. But to say you're going to randomly assign people to this post without the rest of our say? What about the people that don't even come to these boards. That just roleplay in game? Are they not too adding to the game by being a part of the world and adding to others immersion?

    Again, the fact is, you're trying to take away my direct communication with Funcom whom I'm paying to enjoy THEIR product, not yours. And yes, I will argue against this before it's "tried" out. Things like this are often easier to put in place than they are to take out. It's bureaucracy, and it should be left to roleplaying WITHIN the game, not without.

    I applaud you for trying to make the game a better place for all involved. I don't like they way you're doing it. I like the motive not the idea, and as you're stating it right now it WILL affect me in and out of the game with my relationship with Funcom.

    I'm sorry you don't see my point of view, but as a player advocate, don't you think you should try? Or again, is this just a platform for YOUR voice and the voice of those YOU interact with. I agree with Snowy. I knew two people at that meeting besides yourself. It's not a good cross-section of the player community at all. Not even a good cross-section of the RP community.

  8. #8
    How do we know that this council isn't run by a bunch 16 year olds?

    A council to represent the people is in theory a good thing, but it just won't work out in this games enviornment. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I do not support this council in any way.

    I just don't see how I can expect your picked council of 12 to voice any concerns I might have. In all honesty I would expect you guys to bang your drums about whatever you happen to feel is an issue.

    I couldn't care less what you do. Go ahead make your council, why would FC decide you are worthy of there ears? Sounds to me like a few people trying to make themselves feel important in a GAME world.
    Last edited by Babadi; Apr 29th, 2002 at 23:34:17.
    182 NT

    Calming is just a hobby I dabble in, my real passion is blowing stuff up.

  9. #9


    If its constructive I don't care if its run by 16 or 75 year olds. As long as it represents the interested of the community and not itself age doesn't matter.


  10. #10
    I did not mean that there are not things that should be dealt with. If you read my post in this thread you will see where I pointed out that I think Funcom SHOULD be doing more to communicate with players. Your response, Kirrana, implies that I do not think anyone should do anything because everything is already peachy keen. That is incorrect.

    I think that everyone with an opinion or an idea indeed should do something.

    The idea of the players council is not a bad idea per se. However trying to present itself to Funcom as such implies that this is an organization that is capable of speaking for everyone. And in this circumstance it is hardly that.

    If you were to list out each and every point made by every individual who commented at the meeting I would agree with some and disagree with others. And that was just a small sampling of people. Some of the ideas presented were good but based on an ideal world and an ideal game. Personally I think there is only so much that is reasonable to ask for and expect for the $12.95 we pay per month. Other people in that meeting felt differently.

    I am continuing to call this proposed group a council since that is how it was presented at the meeting. But whatever you call it I do not understand how that group can represent all opinions of all people in an unbiased way. How can other people be sure their comments are heard? It seems like you're adding a middle-man here and frankly I'd rather go to the top with my concerns should there be any.

    I am all for a group of people putting out documents or petitions about certain issues. I might even sign some of them.

    "The people selected are those that work for the game on fan sites or who create events, or look after the tech support or are on the test server. "

    Who specifically are these people? I would think that their names would be something that should be out there and known. Yet at the meeting when people asked about this the question seemed to get pushed aside.

    I have been to your site once I think Kirrana though I can't recall which one it is. I think everyone who takes the time to run a fan site and do events should be commended. While I haven't done anything like this yet for AO I have in other games and know that it takes a lot of time, energy and work. But it does not mean that you are necessarily the best person to speak for everyone.

    "But each post I see about how dare I do this takes me one step closer to the cancel button. "

    The problem isn't that you are doing it. The problem is the way you have gone about doing it and the way that you seem to imply that this council would carry more weight than other individual comments with Funcom or that the council could speak on behalf of the "players."

    "At then end of the day at least I am getting off my arse, doing something about making this game better which is more than I can say for a lot of people. "

    Trying to make something you enjoy better is a good thing. But please don't imply that other people who either aren't doing anything or perhaps just disagree with your methods are sitting around on their butts doing nothing. You have just shown that you are biased and that you judge other people. You have implied that your way is the best way and that you are very one sided.

    I can speak for myself thank you.

  11. #11

    Wink This........THING

    Well Cruel and Snowy pretty much said everything I said at the meeting and was deemed the evil and traitorous scumbag for, but I still 100% agree with them, also I would like to make the same point I have been making all along, who need Funcom? Myself and Methlon, as well as many others, have run player created events that were extremely successful and entertaining, so why don't you stop sitting and complaining and get together with all the players who are willing and create mass events, I for one really don't care if GM/ARK show up, I can have just as much fun without them, if not more.


  12. #12
    What people want to see happen though is for their events to effect the overall story and world.

    I totally agree that player events should not rely on a pat on the back and recognition from Funcom. However I do understand that people want to know what's "officially" going on so that they can react and play accordingly.

    However I don't think that player events shouldn't continue even if they aren't recognized. People do them for fun. But because people do them does not mean that they earn any kind of right that other people who perhaps only attend the event do not.
    Jone "Snowdomes" Sosnoski
    Clan Martial Artist
    "Lots of power in a little package."

  13. #13
    So far I have done nothing but set up a meeting to listen and discuss the players concerns, the council is not fully confirmed I have asked a number of people whom do a lot for the game to help out. I have not told you who because until FC give me some idea about it I will not.

    I will not put these people through the same witch hunt I have already seen its not fair on them. As for voting I aceppt that would be nice I just dont see how its possible right now any ideas would be great.

    In fact thats what I want ideas, I am sick of people moaning, I want ideas !!!!.

    Suggestions, I know the story is not working but telling me its not is no longer news. Give me ideas how it can personal be improved for you thats what the council is for to collect these ideas.

    The council is not taking away any ones voice, or the power to make your points I am trying to get FC to see these very points.

    To come up with solutions not problems, to come up with answers not moans. Consider it a think tank if you like. But just moaning to FC has proved to be not effivtive what else is there to do ???

    Oh and I have put the logs up on my site in word at you need to so as save target link and download it before viewing.

    So you can also see the points people made in includes caylls points that he made to.
    Last edited by Kirrana; Apr 30th, 2002 at 01:44:54.

  14. #14
    Film director extraordinairre RandaZ's Avatar

    As a sideliner, my best bit of advice is not to call it a council. While I understand that all you want to do is collect and pass on information to Funcom, the term council just has too many connotations to it, one of them being that it's an authoritative central power.

    This makes everyone feel uneasy, as if they're losing something. Instead, call it a Special Interest Group (RP-SIG?) or something along those lines. It may seem a superficial point, but then again, most of the complaints seem to stem from that very simple thing.

    The closest thing in real life that matches this would be a lobby group. Mind you, this makes it no less important as can be seen by the individual profession groups for AO.

    To all the detractors out there, think about how is this - currently named - council, is really different from say Tekkor's Agent Sector, or Virral's Engineers workshop. Or any other number of SIGs that collect information and try to give a single voice to FC. You're still more than free to post your direct concerns here in the bulletin boards. The service they provide is to collate some concerns (but not every single one) that the group they try to represent come up with. That makes it easier for Cz/Cosmik to narrow down what the primary concerns are, but in reality, they make up their own minds on what exactly to pass to the devs, not the SIGs.

    And just because what you say doesn't become the new banner slogan for the SIG, don't think it's that people are trying to ignore you. Maybe it's already been said. Maybe you've pointed out a problem, but haven't offered a suggestion on actually how to fix it. Maybe you are just being ignored for personal reasons. It could be either one of these and more. From reading the logs myself, a lot of the so called ignores have fallen into the first two groups.

    Yes, they're good points none-the-less, but were rather disruptive towards the general flow of the meeting. At least that's the view from an 'old-timer' reading the logs Perhaps that just means that us old-timer's should have a little more patience. Afterall, don't you remember when we asked the same questions once? But above all, please respect each other. That goes to everyone, old and new. Just because the game is called Anarchy Online doesn't mean we drop common courtesy *looks at a certain individual in this thread*.

    Bah, that's enough irrate banter from me on that specific topic. I'm not here to mother you. Afterall, you're not all kids....

    Back to Kirr, I hope this idea pans out this time. While we've had differences in opinion when it comes to RP in the past, I wholeheartedly support this endeavour. After all, it's not taking my voice away and should I ever think you're not representing "ME", then I can easily voice it here. But chances are, like all the other SIGs out there, you have a better grasp with the RPers and can pick out the wheat from the chaff better than Cz or Cosmik can (with their limited time and all).

    Since there is no go-to website, my last suggestion is to keep your consituency informed of all substantial correspondences here on this board.

    Aside from that, good luck.

    Slotine Zembower
    R.U.R. Member (RK1)

    Tappert Solminski
    Tailor of Rome-Blue (RK1) [currently MIA]

  15. #15

    Here's why it's different.

    It's different for this very reason:

    Kirrana wants this one group to be sanctioned by Funcom. She wants it to have an official voice with meetings and what have you. Tell me, do any of the other SIG's have this formality with Funcom? Do you think they should? Do you think for instance that the Fixers alone should have Funcom's ear, to present the "player's concerns".

    I'm not against her idea to get a better flow of information back and forth with Funcom. I'm against her choosing who is a part of my representation. If it's going to represent me, should I not at least have a say in who this is representing me?

    Nor do I think any of my ideas should take precedence over anyone else. This is my point. Rather than have some arbitrary committee put in place over us, I think Funcom needs to find a better way in not only deciminating the information to all its subscribers, but also receiving feedback in return.

    It's called customer service. It should be what you've paid for and if it isn't, than there is a problem.

    By the way Kirrana, to basically call my disagreeing with you moaning, you're completely misunderstanding me. I have a problem with you coming between my (the customer's) feedback with Funcom (the developer whom I subscribe to). Any other issues I have with Funcom or Anarchy I won't bring into this thread because this thread is about your council, SIG, whatever you want to call it.

    It's not about semantics, it's about allowing a 'sanctioned' group have the only 'heard' say. Tell me, if you had a group of players, supposedly endorsed by all players and we had monthly meetings, why would you ever bother to troll the boards again looking for feedback? It's all packaged nicely for you. THAT is my problem with that. WHO decides what's worth reporting back and what isn't. It better be a person with a vested interest in seeing Anarchy Online as a whole succeed and that means making the players happy. Not just one PORTION of the player base, but all portions. If they don't succeed in relaying our concerns than we will start canceling, if we start canceling than the game goes under, if the game goes under, said customer service person above no longer has a job. It's called accountability.

    Tell me, if Kirrana and these other mysterious people decides who's on this council, who are they accountable too?

    Last point. If you post something on these boards in a public fashion expecting us all to just go along with what you've said and we don't, do NOT call it a witch hunt. I've disagreed with you in very civil terms, I have not tried to get a hold of you personally in game or out. Therefore, I'm not arguing against YOU Kiranna, I'm arguing against your idea. Get your facts straight and stop trying to make this sound like it's a personal attack upon you. Keep the drama in game, not out.

    **** edited for legibility and to put this little remark that it was edited****
    Last edited by Vhendris; Apr 30th, 2002 at 05:05:40.

  16. #16

    You have in your posts made a number of statements which are about me and the council which you have just made up but are claiming I have said this is untrue.

    You on the one hand are upset thinking I am speaking for you while on the other hand you seem quite happy to place your comments and views in my mouth.

    Lets see you said

    Who are you, another player, not paid by Funcom, choosing whether my voice is heard by the products maker or not? You have no vested interest in this product other than your own entertainment time.

    When did I say this, and if you think I have been doing events and keeping my website going for just my own entertainment your wrong.

    You said
    Already you've dismissed MY voice

    What are you talking about and how have i done this please explain cause so far all I have done is held one meeting to discuess the council and rp with the players

    You said
    Again, the fact is, you're trying to take away my direct communication with Funcom whom I'm paying to enjoy THEIR product, not yours.

    Fact !!! what are you talking about what proof do you have that I am trying to take away your direct communication and how and I suppost to do that, ban you from the boards or IRC stop you e-mailing FC.

    You said
    Kirrana wants this one group to be sanctioned by Funcom. She wants it to have an official voice with meetings and what have you.

    Ok now you know what I want this is great cause right now even I dont 100% know how this council will work. but you seem to dispite not even talking to me about.

    You said
    By the way Kirrana, to basically call my disagreeing with you moaning, you're completely misunderstanding me.

    Oh I am sorry did I type Cruel is moaning cause I cant seem to find that on my posts. What I said is I am tired of people moaning about the lack of a story for example why not turn that around and come up with ideas we can us in the story.

    You said
    I have a problem with you coming between my (the customer's) feedback with Funcom (the developer whom I subscribe to).

    What !!! again how am I doing this please explain it to me. You might have your own idea of what you think the council would be but to suggest you know without even talking to me about it is damn right rude.

    You said

    Last point. If you post something on these boards in a public fashion expecting us all to just go along with what you've said and we don't, do NOT call it a witch hunt. I've disagreed with you in very civil terms, I have not tried to get a hold of you personally in game or out. Therefore, I'm not arguing against YOU Kiranna, I'm arguing against your idea. Get your facts straight and stop trying to make this sound like it's a personal attack upon you. Keep the drama in game, not out.

    Civil terms you start of your first post with WHO AM I, and all your posts use this very direct and agressive stance. Oh and ifs its not personal then why are all the comments you make directed at me.
    You have used the term "You" nearly all the time to point out me hardly ever making comments to the idea or the council as a group.

    Also I have not posted this idea on the boards so people will go along with it. I mean dear me there are enough Trolls (no not you cruel in general terms) on the boards to scare anyone off.

    The very reason I held an open meeting is to get people views, I have posted on the boards to get peoples feedback. I could do with your wild guessing at what I am going to do.

    Fair enough if your worried the council might be seen as coming between you and funcom but to directly tell me I coming between you and FC is hardly the way to do his.

    I dont want to end up with loads of these direct battles and people taking sides. We can all sit around picking holes like I have just done in your posts, but where is this getting no where.

    If nothing else the idea of the council has got the wheels turning people are starting to think, who knows maybe it will wake FC up without me doing anything. I dont really care, maybe the council is the wrong thing to have, who knows I dont have all the answers but lets talk about it.

    I have always listened to people and I read these boards up to 20 times a day if not more.

  17. #17
    Film director extraordinairre RandaZ's Avatar

    Re: Here's why it's different.

    Originally posted by Cruel
    It's different for this very reason:

    Kirrana wants this one group to be sanctioned by Funcom. She wants it to have an official voice with meetings and what have you. Tell me, do any of the other SIG's have this formality with Funcom? Do you think they should? Do you think for instance that the Fixers alone should have Funcom's ear, to present the "player's concerns".
    Please let me know how sanctioning one group is exclusive? Yes, I read your bit about lazy FC representatives and find that argument flawed - refer to Tekkor vs agent forum example below.

    Kirrana wants to have it recognized by FC, not to be the unilateral decision maker. Sure, she'd prefer that we not split into 500 groups because of petty bickering. That's understandable. If you really have something against what she's representing, then by all means create your own council. With enough people behind it, you can be the second party. Even with that, that's bound to be better than 10,000 voices saying almost the same thing (we might be able to get 4 non-guild SIGs out of this).

    As for other SIGs with this type of formality, just take a look at In the past, Tekkor (the site's admin) has conversed with Cosmik several times on behalf of the agents on Rubi-Ka. Granted, none of us "voted" him in. He took the initiative on his own volition and got some response. And for that, most agents are greatful.

    Remember that Cosmik and Cz do not have the time to respond to EVERY single message and since a lot of requests by the AO community are repeats, it helps a lot to summarize it down and provide a focal point for their responses. (Note that because they don't respond doesn't mean they don't read or register it - Please make that logical distinction - it IS important).

    Now, if I were to say, disagree with one of Tekkor's suggestions to Cosmik concerning an agent issue, by all means I can voice that opinion. These boards are still being read and there was by no means a media-blackout with Tekkor being the sole mouth and ears of Funcom when it came to agents.

    As for your comment about "Fixers alone should have Funcom's ear, to present the "player's concerns", please don't portray Cz and Cosmik as being that stupid as not to be able to determine for themselves which suggestsions are applicable towards each group?

    They're more intelligent than you give them credit for.

    And finally, regarding choosing your representation, the only way you can get absolute representation is if you create your own council: Cruel's Council.

    Understand that "representation" as you term it is useless if the people you vote in don't represent you. Look at real-world politics for that flaw in action.

    What really matters is that the people in power hold the same view as you. That's all that matters.

    If they don't, then go straight to the top. Since the 'council' isn't the highest level, nor even official (sanction possibly, but not official : see Tekkor's Agent Sector before attempting rebuttal), all you really need to do is post here.

    My hope is, that the 'council' will be attentive to the concerns expressed here (from players like you) and relay that on to Cz and Cosmik. What does it matter what the structure of everything is as long as you reserve the right of rebuttal, which you expressily do as long as this board is active.

    As for Kirrana's council not being 'voted in', anyone who's worked in a team environment knows the importance of balacing personalities. Voting has a strong propensity to produce meaningless bickering. Again though, if you think this is some secret organization out for nefarious needs, then start a counter council.

    I'm sorry if I'm coming across of slightly overbearing on this issue. I feel strongly that this could be useful if implemented properly. But right now, all I see are people who are focusing more on the issue of so-called "non-representation" and forgoing the deeper concern that we need better communication with FC (aside from just giving it lip-service).

    And to boot, it's seemingly personal despite reassurances to the contrary. If I'm a poor judge of character and am totally mistaken about it being personal, then please, prove me wrong and start a watch-dog group or counter-party. I would welcome that just as much as the original council idea. I think there'd be at least three interested members

    I would really hate to be right about the last few posts being all posturing. Please prove me wrong.

    Slotine Zembower
    R.U.R. Member (RK1)

    Tappert Solminski
    Tailor of Rome-Blue (RK1) [currently MIA]

  18. #18
    To the antagonists:

    Ao is not good. FC arent listening to the players. We as players can either accept that, or try to do something about it.

    You give the expression that you rather voice your own opinion(here on the boards for exemple) then join forces with a large group of individuals, since not all of your opinions will be voiced in a large group.

    That would ofcourse be prefered, if it werent for the fact that FC aint listening to individuals. I can tell you this now, so you wont spend any more time in vain hoping that FC all of a sudden will get a good custom service.

    When I jumped ship last year, I did it together with what was at the time, about 2/3 of the most known part of the RP community, after an uprising where we wanted FC to comment on the lack of story. We were a major group of individuals causing havoc on these boards, and not one singel reply did we get from FC.

    So, as a good advice, if you think FC ever will listen to you as a singel person, cancell now, and dont do my mistake, putting a lot of time in to try to get heard. It wont work, and FC wont care. You will only be replaced by another customer, thats the way of life, and FC.

    That said, I see this group as a last hope of us players getting contact with FC. It is after all better to have little influence, then none. As individual FC has shown us our influence means rats ass, by joining forces we might get listened to, at least, we havent tried it before.

    You are right, this group might come between your voice, and FC, and your voice might be result of comprimises, but as it is now, your voice are nothing, and you canelling means nothing.
    Father Chagidiel
    High priest in The Church of OmniTek

  19. #19

    Simply put...

    Watch-dog, counter-group... We don't need another group, but we do need someone who is willing to listen to dissenting opinion.
    Within the meeting, which I was at, dissenting opinion was not listened to but was rather brushed aside or interrupted by someone who was put forth as a part of the organizers of that meeting. Even after other people among that meeting wanted to hear.

    This bothers me and is one of the main reasons that any group as proposed in the outline above should not be made by someone who does not have all the facts, (20 board surfings a day or not), and is not accountable to anyone.

    I don't want absolute representation, I want accountability. I want to know if this person is NOT doing a good job that we have recourse in getting the problem corrected. I want to know there is a good cross-section of people involved in this, not just people that one person knows. I want to see all players covered, gamers, rpers, casual, hunters, adventurers, pacifists.

    If there is going to be one council that is heard as the players 'voice' then it should be representative of all types of players. (No absolute representation.)

    My suggestion? Present your council idea to the community leaders employed by Funcom (whom I never said was stupid, but was trying to give a hypothetical situation, frankly I think do an okay job) and have them choose those that will represent their chosen areas well. If they don't do a good job, ultimately the players will "moan" enough so that they will have to remove this person or again, the game will be in trouble.

    Also, don't underestimate the power of subscription cancellation. People flocked from AO in droves when it first came out simply because there were too many bugs. Funcom fairly quickly rectified these things while trying to enhance the game at the same time.

    Again, I reiterate, the idea of having better communication between Funcom and the players is a good thing. The way this is being done is what I disagree with.

    So here's my final post, because I agree flaming back and forth is useless and a waste of time. Here is the summary of my suggestions to you Kirrana:

    - Put the accountability on Funcom. Have Cz, Cosmik or whomever they choose be responsible for this SIG. Therefore answering the accountability.

    - Decide upon each general area that should be covered. (Roleplaying, Guilds, Events, every class).

    - Suggest Team Leaders for each of these areas from people you think would be beneficial to the community. With ultimately the say going to Funcom. (They may have other data showing others whom you dont' know that could be helpful. Especially in the class situations).

    - Each of these team leaders could then gather together a team of people to help them figure out what is the most pressing issues within each area.

    - Have Funcom give them a special sig that simply sets them apart as people who have information but are not developers.

    I'm sure by now you're asking, how is this different from what I've proposed? It's different because FUNCOM is responsible for it. I, joe-blow, average consumer, can then complain to the company about my problems with the game I'm playing or the systems they have in place. I don't have to be a board lurker, I just have to be a consumer who's willing to say I'm not getting my money's worth.

  20. #20

    What I like to call a constructive disagreement.

    I see the supporters and I could have named them before I read this thread. Some of the few remaining original Baboon's crew. This isn't about supporting a friend who wants to help. It's about stopping a poor solution to your 'problems'.

    I have never felt the need to appear in these forums, but this council talk has called me out. I don't care how good intentioned Kirrana and her council might be it's simply a bad idea. Giving power to the few is always foolish in this type of setting. If you wish to encourage player feedback reaching FC then get more people to post here and to send in those lovely feedback forms they have on the support page.

    IF any of you can honestly say that 12 or even 50 people could express the wishes of the thousands of players of AO then I am truly sorry. It doesn't matter who is on this council it can not work. And in no way should any self-appointed representatives of the people have any more voice then any single individual.

    FC has all along said that players will not effect their overall storyline. We've all seen Lorekeep and his band try everything they could to be special and have more influence with FC. Having impact in this game is not about FC, it's about the players. You want to have effects do things in-character in-game that get to the people, the players. FC made the game and they are giving us some events to take part in too. But if you want more go and do it. Stop looking to FC for acknoledgement and look where it matters to the people. If people attend and enjoy your player run events, then they were a success. So to all those whining about wanting FC to sanction their organization's events. Stop begging for scaps from FC's table and get out there and deal with the people. If you all have your hearts set on impressing FC then go and apply for a job with them of start a fan club. As far as playing the game it's the players that matter. I hear you all say it to FC, why don't you listen to it?

    About real game mechanics issues or changes you wish to see. Get people together and write an e-mail petition on an issue (not use the /petition command) with as many player voices as you can. Then send FC that petition, or get many people to send their own e-mails. Also threads here are great for feeling out issues. If you think it's an issue start a thread and see if the people agree. Don't think that FC doesn't read these threads, they do. If you want to influence FC do it through the will of the people, not through special status. The last thing we need is an elitist pack running around with that kind of power. That was not a shot at Kirrana or any who attended her meeting. Anyone given that type of power is bound to become elitist in time.

    There you have it ,Kirrana, not just shooting down your council, but giving other options.
    Last edited by Eurus; Apr 30th, 2002 at 17:31:47.

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