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Thread: Omni or Clans The Great Debate

  1. #1

    Omni or Clans The Great Debate

    A while back i took a trip to Omni-2 (Athen) to figure out the resolve of the Clans and try to get some members to the rightful Omni-Tek side. As i sat there and sent my plee i found that the Clan members seemed to not know what they were fighting for. I would only get insults. I think this can also be said about the members of the Omni orgizination, they seem to also not know what they fight for. Both seem to eduicate there members for their pourpses and functions. So i wish to invite all sides here in a great debate and discussion on which side it more just, and the ideals each fight for. Consider this the great debate in a forum open to all sides.

  2. #2

    Re: Omni or Clans The Great Debate

    Originally posted by DushbagJones
    As i sat there and sent my plee i found that the Clan members seemed to not know what they were fighting for... I think this can also be said about the members of the Omni orgizination, they seem to also not know what they fight for.
    This is just one reason why I remain neutral. Quite apart from the philosohical and moral problems I have with both sides' standard dogma, all too many members of both factions seem... rootless. They don't know who they are or why they're fighting, yet they continue to fight.

    Does that make sense to you? It doesn't to me.

    Of course, there are also those on both sides who have a strong grip on their position re. the faction conflict. With those individuals I merely have a philosophical disagreement. As for those neutrals who don't really understand the ramifications of the conflict, it's a perfectly valid reason to be neutral. Not the best one to my mind, but valid enough.

    Cheers,

    ~R~

  3. #3
    while remaining neutral might get you out of the conflict, i wonder what will happen when the conflict is over, seeing as neither side was supported. Omni might not bring up charges of the neutral's inabality to agree to contract terms, but as long as they pose no threat it seems unlikely. But i am sure if the Clans get their way it will be nothing but a Clan civil war. The instability in the Clans is going to be a major weakness they shall never overcome. You have the Sentenials who have tarnished the Clan name in the ICC minds due to their excessive militant ways to all non clan members. Rodiman though is a more peacful man and wishes nothing more then to have each side coexist. wgile such a feat might be possible it is impratical and no lasting peace will ever likely emerge. as i see it the only way for the conflict to ever end is for Omni-Tek to win the conflict. and for the fact that based on ICC regulations the Clans should belong to Omni-Tek seeing as they are established on Rubi-Ka ground, while the Jobe Scienties or JAME lucked up and were able to find a loop hole and build a city that can be indipendant from Omni-Tek. while both Clans and Omni-Tek are working hard to get JAME on their side, i see JAME as having a slight tilt toward Omni-Tek seeing as they were all former employes.
    to get to a more in depth reason for why i chose Omni-Tek, i think the planet couldn't suvrive without a strict ruler in this time. the clans have shown time and again that they seem to not want peace. the first civil war was started by an unprovoked attack on Omni-Tek territory. they proclaimed to be fighting for freedom but Omni-Tek had yet to even trample or look in the general direction of Clan rights, they were more interrested in the Sol Banking company.
    "Reaching a critical mass in numbers - and taking advantage of the escalating war between Omni-Tek and Sol Banking Corporation - the clans finally rise up against the authorities. Killing thirty-nine OT guards, sabotaging security droids and other military hardware, the clans seize control of four notum mines and announce their plans for a democratic Rubi-Ka; run by the people, for the people."
    It wasn't until after the Dol Banking war was drawing to a close till Omni-Tek could retaliate. the second civil war was also started by the clans
    "Clan-affiliated terrorists blow up four notum operations in a coordinated strike, killing both security forces and miners. Notum shipments are reduced by 13%, costing Omni-Tek hundreds of billions of credits."
    this was also after a treaty was signed giving the Clans legal land in order for no more armed conflicts, Omni-Tek had showed it's benevolance.
    "The clans are granted a limited lease on land from Omni-Tek in return for an end to all future armed hostilities and the continued cooperation with Omni-Tek's mining operations. This is the Clans Rights Treaty - the true birth of Rubi-Kan independence."
    but with the attack by Clan terrorist and the inabality of the Clans to cooperate with Omni-Tek police the lease was in all legal terms null and void. this in turn started the 2nd civil war when Omni-Tek had to forceable come to get the terrorist. now so i can't be blamed with saying the Clans did everything this was the wrong thing for Omni-Tek to do.
    "Claiming the clans are disrupting commercial interests, Omni-Tek moves to reclaim all occupied territories by force."
    this was the only unprovoked hostile move Omni made to start the third civil war. but with the chards being delt it still seams Omni-Tek wins on the accually showing benevolance and hopes for peace when the Clans showed none.
    Your lucky your with us!

  4. #4
    I don't think we will see an end of hostilities any time soon. Even though with the de facto partition of Rubi-Ka, the casues of the war ceased to exist centruies ago, greed, brusied egos, a culture of violence and sheer inertia will see that it drags on till the day the Omni's lease runs out.

    Two years ago, Ross and Radiman got as far as agreeing a cease fire. Sure we can blame the Dust Brigade screwing the peace process up at the time, but in reality neither leader enjoyed popular support over this initiative. By and large people both Omni and Clan either raged against this amnesty or just ignored it.

    Savoy
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  5. #5
    Originally posted by DushbagJones
    while remaining neutral might get you out of the conflict, i wonder what will happen when the conflict is over, seeing as neither side was supported...
    That's where we get down to fundamental philosophical differences.

    Most hardcore Clan or Omni lobbyists argue that the ideal outcome is a win for their side. While I agree with you regarding the Clans' current instability, I'd argue that a win for either side will actually result in an eventual worsening of conditions for the average Rubi-Kan. Therefore the best outcome, not for any particular faction but for Rubi-Ka as a whole, is a negotiated settlement between the belligerents.

    If OT finally win (and manage to retain the lease on the planet) I expect to see a period of rebuilding and expansion, but also a slow but steady crackdown on personal freedoms. This would likely start with political expression, but I think would quickly spread into such areas as private commerce. OT would like to run a managed economy here, so control of private trade and private ownership is a likely outcome.

    If the Clans win, I expect to see a short period of consolidation followed by a much longer inter-clan civil war to sort out who controls the notum trade. I really don't expect the victor from that sort of scrap to give us an enlightened republic. I'm expecting the strongest warlord to win and not to be particularly tolerant of anything which threatens his position. Fascism at its most basic, personal level, in other words.

    That's if the ICC doesn't simply hand the lease to another megacorp and give them carte blanche to effect a military solution. In that case we're back to the bad old days of unrestricted warfare.

    Overall, while reaching a lasting, legal settlement that's acceptable to both sides is a difficult objective to achieve, it's ultimately necessary. It's possible that one of the sticking points to such an agreement is the current lack of terraformed space on RK, which pushes the two sides into conflict over scarce resources. Unfortunately the current low level of hostilities (and let's not kid ourselves, compared to what's gone before we're merely skirmishing over trifles) is a constant drain on resources for both sides and slows down any major projects.

    Cheers,

    ~R~

  6. #6
    i see where your comming from but as i said, a treaty between both sides is impractical, the Clans are too loose knit to ever agree on a single topic. while Neutral intrest is to just mantain life the fact of the matter is that you either get opressed by Omni-Tek, the Clans, or another Hyper Company. the worst case senario is for all 3 or more to be on the planet at once. at lease with a rival company on Rubi-Ka the resources would be fought over on the market place and not the battle field. if the Clans are there with Omni-Tek still around and Sol Banking you can expect a major increase in terrorist attacks against major companies till they all just finally obliterate the Clan threat. it is good that we agree on the future with the CLan victory, though if the Council of Truth can get established an mantain a military presence over the Clans as to keep the Dust Brigade and the Sentinals in line. and instead of Omni-Tek having to maintain control the ICC would need to step up to the plate and mantain some control over a lawless planet. even with a completly terraformed planet the Clans want the whole lot, and will settle with nothing more then a completly Clan outlook. sadly the Clans are becomeing nothing more then what they were fighting at first.
    Your lucky your with us!

  7. #7
    Originally posted by Savoy
    I don't think we will see an end of hostilities any time soon. Even though with the de facto partition of Rubi-Ka, the casues of the war ceased to exist centruies ago, greed, brusied egos, a culture of violence and sheer inertia will see that it drags on till the day the Omni's lease runs out.

    Two years ago, Ross and Radiman got as far as agreeing a cease fire. Sure we can blame the Dust Brigade screwing the peace process up at the time, but in reality neither leader enjoyed popular support over this initiative. By and large people both Omni and Clan either raged against this amnesty or just ignored it.

    Savoy
    This is really a sad aspect of the fact that death isn't permanent on Rubi-Ka. War may not kill most people permanently (there are exceptions) but what it does do is use up resources, waste notum, and make Rubi-Ka weaker. That is if both warring factions are about the same thing, exploitation of Notum. I would really like to see a just movement based on real morallity and events of today.

    That is what we in the NLF fight for, not arguements 200 years old, but real philosophical differences based on the actions of people today. Real concerns for real life and death.

    War and "terrrorism" is cheap in this land of riskless action therefore no sides will step back from hardline positions unless some truely drastic measures are taken.
    Aazamon General of the Nanomage Liberation Front

    28973 The first Homo Nano is born in an Omni-Tek laboratory. The inclusion of trace notum into the DNA sequencing of Nano foetuses means that this breed is able to live only on Rubi-Ka.

    Until all are free!

    We are recruiting

    The Nanomage Liberation Front

  8. #8
    while i respect your cause i find it as i said impractical. a complete stand down of arms on both side is a complete impossibality. too many factions withing the Clans see only the Clan ideoloigy. there will be no peace withoug Omni-Tek or an authoritian presence on Rubi-Ka. If Omni-Tek is able to regain control of the lands it legally controls then a form of peace can be established. the later arrival of other copmanies will then help Rubi-Ka prosper in the market, and more terra formed land can be established. the NLF will be unable to create a lasting peace within the means it has. the best and most direct action to eliminate the Clan threat would be for the ICC to life the lease and re-review it and allow other copmanies to come to Rubi-Ka, this would in turn allow a counter effort to eliminate the Clans in order for a prospering business world. Notum is unable to be shifted out of the galatic market for the soul pourpse of it's uses. without it the Nanomage race can not exits and a genocide will occur. so i say allow the ICC to rewrite the lease allowing other major companies to come and create more land on Rubi-Ka, which will in turn eliminate the Clan threat.
    Your lucky your with us!

  9. #9
    Hey dushbag, its me Ottonorl, rmember I helped found your guild. Antway I just wanted to say that sorry im unable to join your guild again because ive defected to the clan side. Sorry for the inconvenience this has caused, and I look forward to seeing you on the battlefield!

  10. #10
    I think that is what ICC intends to do once Omni-Teks lease runs out. Open up Rubi-Ka to the open market and let everyone have a go at it. If i am correct, and if such a move is wise, only time will tell.

    Untill then, it is imperative that we at least try to reach an understanding between the Omni-Tek Corporation and the majority of the Clans. Now i will not be unreasonable and say i´m hoping for an eternity of true peace, i might wish for that but that it will ever happen is just dreaming and escapism at it´s worst. We can, how ever, draw up a new cease fire agreement if a new Clan council is put together and is willing to talk.
    "On the frontlines, there is but one commandment...
    Thou Shalt Kill."


    "As i stride knee deep through the dead, all is clear. I know what must be done...
    My cause is just...My will is strong...
    ...And my gun is very, very large!"
    The words of a true soldier.

  11. #11
    There is one known source of Notum in the galaxy, and that's here. There's one thing just about everybody in the galaxy wants, and that's Notum!

    If the Clans and OT ever managed to get their acts together and stop wasting their resources sniping at each other, can you imagine how much money we could all make?

    OT screwed up when they mistreated their workers 200+ years ago. They created the Clans due to their horrendous mismanagement of personnel. They compound their mistake by not acknowledging it.

    The Clans, however, are screwing up now by not letting go of the past. They've got half the planet... what could be more fair?

    Let's get this settled so we can start getting rich!
    Zhik

    War is not its own end, except in some catastrophic slide into absolute damnation. It's peace that's wanted. Some better peace than the one you started with.
    Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Vor Game", 1990


    54.76190476190476% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?

  12. #12
    I have to agree with Xhairs and Zhik. There is plenty of notum, ample opportunities for all sides to come out of this rich. All people need to do is to look less at the past and more towards the future. Surely your children's wellbeing must count more than the memory of your ancestors?

    Savoy
    Dabblez - Rubi-Ka Universal Robots (RUR)
    We put the Art into Artificial Intelligence!

  13. #13
    As an Omni-Tek employee I know exactly what I fight for - the LAW.

    Clan members are contract breaking criminals and terrorists. Greedy, whiney ones at that.

    That said, the clans are too fractured to even hope for a peace. I would like it seriously, I'm tired of the war, tired of the killing. I have even taken up arms to defend those who have fallen or given way. This is through rage and disgust, not through agreeing with the process.

    It's a terrible cycle, that won't stop unless the clans can TRULY unite and sit down and talk with OT.
    Last edited by Aulial; Jan 14th, 2004 at 11:33:15.
    lol hehe wtf pwnt bbq

  14. #14
    To Deny Omni-tek is to just add to the age old fact that people wanna be "Free". What will come of You if you get your "freedome" another Organization will come along and try to Establish wealth and prosparity again? Heck these people that would try to work hard for a Wealthy peaceful life will more than likeley be the clan members that tried to destroy Omni-tek. (this is all hypothetical by the way). Its a age old chain that will never be broken for as long as humans yern to feel Comfertable and safe. We at Omni-tek Struggle to decern the Magnoliality of The Clans...one word comes to mind.....Childishness. Yes These clans are behaving like spoiled little children that don't deserve anything but a whack on the arse.
    Last edited by ASIMPLENT; Jan 14th, 2004 at 14:46:36.
    Bushido is the way of the warrior. Nirvana is the path of true enlightenment. NTs must struggle to confine themselves as Warriors in this world,while still maintaining the path of wisdom.
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  15. #15
    in other words everything must have a structure and some sort of Function. Wether it be Physical Meta-Physical or other, Everthing has an order to it even the very nature you say We are destroying which by the way we are not.
    Bushido is the way of the warrior. Nirvana is the path of true enlightenment. NTs must struggle to confine themselves as Warriors in this world,while still maintaining the path of wisdom.
    Chrioset-195/7 Nanomage/NT
    Duesentas-199/8 Atrox/Enfo
    Iloveshiz-131/0 Solitus/Fixer (no GA twinkage)
    Chriosat-88/0 Nanomage/Trader (wannabe Tradeskiller)
    Gualo - 155/2 Nanomage/Engy (the Real TSer)
    FUN COM, Please Make NT's the top Damge Dealers Again!!!!!!
    AO Mainframe-Click here - Down indefinitly
    Auno-Click here

  16. #16
    Having spent many years a a Neut i think i can safely say with out even reading this thread that omni should be the way of all good thinking up right ppl.


    those of low morals and immature years join the clan not only do they need you but it keeps the rest of us away from you_


    Go OMNI


    Edited to be more venomous
    Last edited by Sebor; Jan 14th, 2004 at 17:59:57.

  17. #17
    Originally posted by Naihanji
    ...Clan members are contract breaking criminals and terrorists. Greedy, whiney ones at that...
    That's ridiculous. Even if you consider the original break between the Clans and OT to be completely the fault of the Clans, that happened over 200 years ago. The Clanners alive today never had a contract with OT, they didn't break any legal agreement.

    As for every Clanner being a terrorist, that's even more ridiculous. The vast majority of Clanners are just like you, normal people who want to live a happy and peaceful life with their families. I admit there are a few misguided people among the Clans who carry out terrible terrorist attacks, but there are Omni employees who attack Clan cities as well. Does that make every OT employee a murderer? I think not.

    Are we greedy because we wish our cities to prosper? No more than Omni-Tek is greedy for wanting a return on their investments. The only way we can all accomplish our goals is to stop our pointless bickering.

    Originally posted by Sebor
    Having spent many years a a Neut i think i can safely say with out even reading this thread that omni should be the way of all good thinking up right ppl.

    those of low morals and immature years join the clan not only do they need you but it keeps the rest of us away from you
    I'm glad to hear that you've found a home with OT. The life of a Neutral is a difficult one. But what does that have to do with which side is "right?"
    Zhik

    War is not its own end, except in some catastrophic slide into absolute damnation. It's peace that's wanted. Some better peace than the one you started with.
    Lois McMaster Bujold, "The Vor Game", 1990


    54.76190476190476% of me is a huge nerd! How about you?

  18. #18
    accually to come to Rubi-Ka you must sign a contract with Omni-Tek sawing you wish to come to the planet to work for OT. The Clans for the most part have held a childish campaign that will never end, the problem with the Clans as we keep saying is that they have too many groups withing them, if they some how overcome Omni-Tek then there will be nothing but more war over who will lead the Clans. You struggle is nothing more then destroying what you say is opression just to create even more opression. Omni-Tek hasn't opressed the Clans once, every Omni attack, except the one that started the 3rd civil war, was a retaliation for a previous Clan attack.
    Your lucky your with us!

  19. #19

    Exclamation

    Without rules/laws there is chaos. Chaos = Without Peace.

    Clan have chosen the path of Chaos which leads to nothing but destruction. If you go to OA you see nothing but trash and graffitti.

    It is natural to envy where the grass is greener. But envy turns into hate for OT. And this hate has grown in Clan for many years. Why? cuz of envy....
    Last edited by Trance7; Jan 15th, 2004 at 07:06:50.
    "Have you ever danced with the d3v!l in the pale moon light?" - The J0ker
    I'm buyin Manex's /tell Trance4

  20. #20
    Originally posted by DushbagJones
    accually to come to Rubi-Ka you must sign a contract with Omni-Tek sawing you wish to come to the planet to work for OT. The Clans for the most part have held a childish campaign that will never end, the problem with the Clans as we keep saying is that they have too many groups withing them, if they some how overcome Omni-Tek then there will be nothing but more war over who will lead the Clans. You struggle is nothing more then destroying what you say is opression just to create even more opression. Omni-Tek hasn't opressed the Clans once, every Omni attack, except the one that started the 3rd civil war, was a retaliation for a previous Clan attack.
    Ah, I see Dushbagjones isn't fit to bore the populace of Old Athens with his propaganda, he has to resort to lying here as well.

    You don't have to sign a contract with OT:

    June 26 29475 Illegal restrictions on colonisation are lifted after prolonged ICC objections. Rival corporations are now allowed to transport passengers to and from Rubi-Ka. Ships in orbit immediately begin to transport new colonists to the surface. The population mushrooms overnight, causing logistical problems and chaos. The Rubi-Kan infrastructure is unprepared for the massive influx of colonists.
    "Eeky! Nasty, spiteful, horrible little child! Nerf j00! " -- Londino, Soldier Professional.

    "mmmmmmmmm tastes shartastic!" -- Roedran

    Gameplay On Demand: We demand reasonable timesinks, what we get is a kick in the nads.

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