Neutral effects

[___________burrowowl]

A request regarding the upcoming Agent changes:

What is the functional use of letting Agents switch to neutral? If they wish to go undercover as Omni, they can switch to Omni. If they wish to go undercover as a Clanner, they can switch to Clan.

With the new patch, they can even retain any token stuff they got along the way when they switch.

Why taint the well by letting them claim Neutrality? With OT and Clan mobs aggro to us again these days, the _only_ advantage to being a neutral is the neutral community. We neuts have an elevated respect for lvl100 neutrals that we just don't have for similarly lvl people of the two adversarial factions. Neutrals are the only population with any built-in trust of each other, in part because you have to stick to your guns to stay Neutral.

Anyhow, if the developers want to further harm Neutrals (the majority of us suspect that you folks hate us), letting folks sign on the dotted line and become neutral is a great way to do it.

While you're at it, why not take away the Newland-Borealis wompah? Newland can hardly be described as Neutral territory anymore: our guards are dead and we have a Neutral PC population there that hovers around 1-2.

What could be useful would be to make the Borealis->Newland wompah point somwhere like Drumdar, Hope, or Harry's.

In summary, I would appreciate it if you were to weigh the benefit of letting Agents pick ANY side against the possible cost (neutral cohesion). I'll take it on faith that the new wompah layout will be neato (I run a lot anyway, so heck). If you are going to separate Borealis from Newland, kindly place a grid access term in Last Ditch, Borealis, or wherever the Borealis->Newland hope ends up going.

Thanks for listening (yes, I do know you read these things)

[___________burrowowl]

apologies to the dev team if that looked all whiney and complaint-oriented.

I would just like to make known that in my opinion, letting Agents go neutral will do more harm than good, and that in my opinion the wompah rework will be a good thing.

Those are the only two items regarding the 14.2 patch notes that have thus far been released that is of great concern to me.

[____________Enerbias]

I've heard of double agents, but what's the point of middle agents? I can just picture the report now:-

"Well Mr Bond, what foul plot did you uncover this time?"

"Er, nothing actually sir, apart from your guys shooting me in the head for being Neut"

[Destractor]

It would be plain crazy letting agents change to neut, but if it was purely aesthetic (showed up on the personal tab, but did not effect the agent ) and it was time oriented, it would be ok.

Agents should be able to pretend to be neutral (though I can't see why they would want to) so long as it was a buff that ran out after a time.

[-Zagadka-]

Well, PERHAPS there are neutral groups or factions that aren't neutral because they want peace?

Say an Agent has to infiltrate a neutral mercenary group.

It wouldn't do very well for him to switch from Omni to Clan, now would it?

Say an Agent is in Omni territory during a conflict, and had to get out. Switching to to Omni would be noticable, since the guild guarding the area knows that there isn't a Tomjones with them - but staying Clan is instant death. In theory, he could become a Neutral trader and talk his way out (though they would probably just shoot him anyway :-)

[_____________Lorepan]

I have a lvl 173 neutral and heres my problem with this. A neutral has to scrape by in AO on tooth and nail to get xp and lvls especially if they are less than lvl 100. It takes cunning and intelligence to hunt an area when everything around you would love to kill you but doest give a rats A** about your team mates... It comes for YOU. Heres a good example of what it was like in my earlier days

Hunting borgs in mort:
-find team
-get in plane and lead the faction afiliated npcs as they shoot you and nearly kill you ( this has to be done or else your team will be in battle with a borg and you get shot in the back by a faction npc, also your team refues to help you kill it which they could do easily because it is on thier side) and because planes dont hold aggro it takes a while. In the mean time you have missed out on all the xp your team is getting and they are not too happy having 1 teammate not pulling the wieght.
-come back and hunt for about 30 minutes
-In the mean time the npcs have wandered back and as you are consintrating on hunting with the team you get shot in the back. If you happen to survive you repeat from step 2.

Thats the kind of stuff myself and alot of other neutrals had to do in the early days before hunting in missions became popular. Because of this a deep mutual repect exists in the neutral community for any person willing to follow the hard road that is neutrality. When a person that is a high lvl agent decides one day that he wants to be neutral and switches over, he undermines all the blood and sweat all the other neutrals put forth to get where they are now. And if you dont believe me how hard it is look how many high lvl neutrals there are, a handful? The simple fact is this and listen close funcom, the neutral community is BUILT ON RESPECT, that respect is earned not given to you when you sign on the dotted line, by putting this change forth you are slapping the face of all neutrals who have followed thier moral core and where willing to put up with all the obstacles presented to them. The neutral community is more close knit than i think the omni/clans and funcom realize. The sudden materialization of high lvl neutral agents wont fool anyone. I can only speak for myself but NO RESPECT would be given from me and i have a feeling they would be very lonely agents.

[-Zagadka-]

Who the hell said they would switch to Neutral for the prestige and respect? I doubt most Agents dream of the days they can hang out on the patio in Newland and feel uber... The few instances they can use the Neutral side change on, they will use - but I'll bet good money that not one will stay Neutral for longer than necessary.

[_____________Lorepan]

shoulda read before post >_< lotta typos

[_____________Lorepan]

It doesnt matter, the fact that it will be allowed at all is a slap in the face. You have absolutely no idea how much utter crap neutrals have to go through to even get to 100. It shouldnt even be an option.

[_____________Jovilen]

Yes it so hard living neut. than clan or ot..
i totaly agree with Lorepan!

[___________burrowowl]

vrach said:

I doubt most Agents dream of the days they can hang out on the patio in Newland and feel uber...

A neutral? Lounging in Newland? Have you ever been to Newland? Any agents hanging out there are 99.42% likely to be clanners. The other 0.58% are Omni. Sorry. That was harsh. I'm just amused by the notion that newland is neutral. It's just a clan city with neut-friendly shops, where everybody kills the guards outside.

But anyway, if nobody wants it, don't give it to them. if the OT and Clanner agents don't want it, and the actual neutrals don't want it, then the dev team can write this up as something that doesn't need to be put in.

Neutrals have very few expectations of benefits. The only ones we really have at the moment are the guards on all sides don't attack us unless we're already in a combat, and the knowledge that we got wherever we are by ourselves, with no help from the assorted perks of Clan or Omni (or for many folks, both) affiliation.

The perks of Clan and Omni affiliation are many: they have access to every shop and cellscanner Neuts do, plus all of the shops and cellscanners of their own side. They have guards that will actively try to help them. They have token boards. They have the ability to switch to the other side if they want to use that subset of hunting grounds. They have the ability to initiate PvP combat. They have superior nanocrystal shops.

I'm not saying nerf OT or nerf the clanners. I'm not saying "don't let agents go undercover." I just don't think that sided agents have anything to gain from this aspect of this feature, and the neutral community will take a rather substantial hit to our morale.

[____________Enerbias]

Originally posted by Vrach
Well, PERHAPS there are neutral groups or factions that aren't neutral because they want peace?

Say an Agent has to infiltrate a neutral mercenary group.

It wouldn't do very well for him to switch from Omni to Clan, now would it?

This is a fair point, but if they are investigating a mercenary group, changing to both clan and omni should be more than enough for an agent to gather all the information they need. I think a far more powerful option would be the ability to change their name, you could then dress differently on the other side, complete the transaction, then you have all the evidence you need.

Of course, you could always start a Neut alt who is a "contact" for the agent. Maybe then you'd understand the problems we face and why we're so opposed to the idea.

[-Zagadka-]

Well, this is a silly debate, anyway. First of all, it seems that my sarcasm was missed... second of all, being neutral isn't a badge of honor to most people. I respect neutrals who stay neutral and work hard at it. No, it isn't easy. But I don't expect many Agents to convert to neutral and stay there for more than the duration of the side lock is. By and by, I have several Neut chars, and I raise Neuts as "NPCs" for events.

Hell, if you want Neutral reserved for Neutrals, I want the 1000 token board reserved for people who have run ~1200 missions.

Moot point, really. Agents have a hard life, anyway. Congrats to them on getting this ability - it is LOOOOOOONG overdue.

[Destractor]

It has to be said it would be a big kick in the teeth for neut Agents (and Lore is THE neut agent).

I really don't like the idea of it, how could we trust other neuts afterwards? But I do see the the reason for it, and agents really can't infiltrate without it.

If this goes ahead, then it should really be a nano (rather than really changing sides) and it should last a specific length of time (an hour maybe). There would also need to be ways of seeing the agents true colours, maybe a counteragent nano that agents could check a person is who they say they are.

[______________Saille]

Originally posted by Vrach
Well, PERHAPS there are neutral groups or factions that aren't neutral because they want peace?

Say an Agent has to infiltrate a neutral mercenary group.

OMG, what game are you playing? *laughter*

The only thing I'm infiltrating is some team mission boss' face with my fist.

Infiltrate neutral mercenary groups, my foot.

When's the last time your alignment made any difference at all? I'll tell you when. When you went to a 25% and saw a team of orange-red players and *phew* they were Omni and you were too. Lucky they couldn't smack you around like a dog's chew rag.

[____________Ironheel]

Yeah, Funcom is just evil and slapping all Neutrals in the face with this!

And while we're on the subject I feel like I'm being slapped in the face! I'm an Enforcer that wear's tank armor rather then a coat because, one the coats looks stupid and two I'm a tank, I should wear tank armor. By de-gimping tank armor they're taking away all the respect I get for wearing tank armor rather then a dress! I demand that they leave Tank armor gimped! In fact it should be made worse! Make tank armor triple nano costs and give NEGATIVE armor! That way I'll get the respect I deserve over any other enforcer my level who's taken the super simple easy way of wearing a dress!

[-Zagadka-]

Originally posted by Saille
OMG, what game are you playing? *laughter*

OMG, one where I intereact with the environment in a creative way instead of following cookie cutters and waiting for others to drag me by the nose? *laughter*

[-Zagadka-]

Originally posted by Ironheel
That way I'll get the respect I deserve over any other enforcer my level who's taken the super simple easy way of wearing a dress!

/me chuckles

[______________Saille]

Originally posted by Vrach


OMG, one where I intereact with the environment in a creative way instead of following cookie cutters and waiting for others to drag me by the nose? *laughter*

OMG, move along friend. You're thinking of some other game.

*rummages around for her cookie cutter*

[-Zagadka-]

OMG... um... r u nubi?

Something like that.