To Rebuild A Council

[Nevver]

Oh? Then how has Omni-Tek been stealing your freedom?

[Aazamon]

Originally posted by Nevver
Oh? Then how has Omni-Tek been stealing your freedom?

I'll answere that one. Without any emotional arguements even.

Omni-Tek rules Rubi-Ka, claiming the right to dictate the lives of it's employees and dictating to the Clans why they may or may not have ruling them. They also claim to have jurisdiction over the neutrals. Omni-Tek does not offer political freedom to any of these people. They rule by appointing CEO's that follow the company line. Omni-Tek is a corperation that is meddling in the lives of millions upon millions of people when they should get out of that altogether and keep to business. No company should be allowed a military force, given the rights to govern people, or allowed to set up regulatory regimes like ICC that are made up of such companies. These activities are the sole right of the People, to be elected, run, and administered by democratic and constitutional means. Omni-Tek has had good and bad times under different leaders, much like monarchies of old. But what stops the next CEO from being a bloody mass murderer? Nothing yet. That is the freedom that Omni-Tek is suppressing.

I must say there are very similar lapses in freedom among several clans as well. But I see a democratic movement within the clans again and I applaud it and hope beyond all hope that it sees itself with the responsibillity to preserve Rubi-Ka and ALL of it's inhabitants. No matter Breed, employer, or political stripe. It is the job of a democraticly elected government to govern for all, not just it's supporters.

[Nevver]

The problem, Aazamon, is that you and others view Rubi Ka as some sort of garden or playground or Eden or I don't know. The truth of the matter is that Rubi Ka is a corporate campus that is run by Omni-Tek and employs it's own security force. It's a very large corporate campus, but that's still what it is. It is a piece of realestate that Omni-Tek has leased.

While you and the Clanners are visiting our campus and until you can support yourselves by paying your own rent, I don't think it's too much to ask of you to follow a few simple rules.

[Sukea]

Originally posted by Aazamon


I'll answere that one. Without any emotional arguements even.

Omni-Tek rules Rubi-Ka, claiming the right to dictate the lives of it's employees and dictating to the Clans why they may or may not have ruling them. They also claim to have jurisdiction over the neutrals. Omni-Tek does not offer political freedom to any of these people. They rule by appointing CEO's that follow the company line. Omni-Tek is a corperation that is meddling in the lives of millions upon millions of people when they should get out of that altogether and keep to business. No company should be allowed a military force, given the rights to govern people, or allowed to set up regulatory regimes like ICC that are made up of such companies. These activities are the sole right of the People, to be elected, run, and administered by democratic and constitutional means. Omni-Tek has had good and bad times under different leaders, much like monarchies of old. But what stops the next CEO from being a bloody mass murderer? Nothing yet. That is the freedom that Omni-Tek is suppressing.

I must say there are very similar lapses in freedom among several clans as well. But I see a democratic movement within the clans again and I applaud it and hope beyond all hope that it sees itself with the responsibillity to preserve Rubi-Ka and ALL of it's inhabitants. No matter Breed, employer, or political stripe. It is the job of a democraticly elected government to govern for all, not just it's supporters.

Well put Aazamon.


Miss Nevver....will you ever get a clue? that last post is absolutely frelling ridiculous.

originally posted by nevverThe problem, Aazamon, is that you and others view Rubi Ka as some sort of garden or playground or Eden or I don't know. The truth of the matter is that Rubi Ka is a corporate campus that is run by Omni-Tek and employs it's own security force. It's a very large corporate campus, but that's still what it is. It is a piece of realestate that Omni-Tek has leased.

While you and the Clanners are visiting our campus and until you can support yourselves by paying your own rent, I don't think it's too much to ask of you to follow a few simple rules.

I don't live on a campus. and a lease is all OT has in regards to Rubi-Ka. In fact I would love to see a copy of that original lease..perhaps there maybe some illegal violation that OT has commited such as brutalizing its workers albeit 200 years ago..but that would not be past the statute of limitations on having the lease revoked due to illegal acts being commited on this planet by OT and Knowingly......

Khastity
General of Tempest
Tempest Notum Extraction plant
Legal Department

Khastity

[Sukea]

Originally posted by Quool
The clans most certainly can succeed. The CoT originally formed in 29396 and the people of Rubi-Ka enjoyed 63 years of peace between Omni-Tek and the clans.

Although it did not endure forever, I consider the old CoT an outstanding success.

Unfortunately, in 29459, a few clans launched attacks against Omni-Tek, over a monetary dispute. Alas, the original conflict may have been a concern about individual rights and working conditions, but the conflict of today is only about money.

Todays conflict is not just about money.....it is about survival and surviving within the current economic markets as well as preserving the clans and nuetrals independence on Rubi Ka. Seeking a way to unite Clans is not an endeavor to underestimate. As a wise man once said,

"All that evil needs to prevail is that good men stand idle."

Well I asure you there are many good men and women not idling on clan side but they cannot fight evil without the money we gain from selling notum...Clans want and do desire a

1. free and democratic Rubi-Ka.
2. We would like to put an end to the bloodshed. However, it seems that is unlikely
3. We also want to assure the sustainability of notum on RK to help in the preservation of future generations of certain species created by OT.
4. intergalactic merchanting rights to help promote free trade and end the corporate monopoly OT has on intergalactic merchanting of notum, which is causing many concerns amongst clanners today

These are just a few items on a long list.

The problem with OT is they think they can tell us what we can and cannot do. That is also the problem with the ICC which has yet to neogiate a peace settlement between the two rivals

What is truely unclear at this point is what is the "New Council of Truth" stance on any item any Clan orgs has asked it....we have never heard what NCoT is thinking yet they want the large clan organizations support without stating NCoT's posisiotn on any subject.

As long as the NCoT asks for support with one hand extended as if in a bargain and the other empty as a seive then they shall get no support from the Large clan organizations. This is just an observation......If they wish to effect a change the NCoT must decide what issues they feel they can mediate and what their stance is on those issues and then present that to the large clan organizations. From there the details willl have to be hammered out. Then and only then can think about placing clanner positions on the bargaining table and negotiating with OT.

Khastity

[Fixerben]

This thread was about starting a Clan Council. The Council that will help Omni-Tek and the Clans work together. You are simply turning it into another huffing match. Its very frustrating for people that are actually trying to do something good to see other people with their own assumed idea of whats going on, try and ruin everything. Nevver, I assure you your assumptions of what the CoT will be are totally false. Especially from the things you are saying. I wont bother to make examples because you assume things all the time, and you are 90% of the time wrong.

So, Lets all just stop here, and try to make some constructive conversation. Thanks.

And lets try not to bring out the arguments years old, let the dead horse lay.

[Andross]

Well... Khastity... and people were wondering why I thought the new CoT will fail. The clans will never ever unite under one banner. Contrary to Omni-Tek, which is one corporation, despite its many departments, the clans are a bunch of uncoordinated, spoiled and demanding barbarians.

You are out to preserve the status quo of the clans. To keep the rule of the large clans, strengthen their might to crush the smaller clans under their oppression and attacking Omni-Tek at every opportunity. With your mindset and your far-fetched, self-centered attitude and expectations which are blown out of proportions, you will never have a democratic government created on this planet, nor will you achieve lasting change for the better.

I pity you for wasting your energy trying something which has failed before, attempted by wiser people than you.

[Tussa]

Originally posted by Nevver
The problem, Aazamon, is that you and others view Rubi Ka as some sort of garden or playground or Eden or I don't know. The truth of the matter is that Rubi Ka is a corporate campus that is run by Omni-Tek and employs it's own security force. It's a very large corporate campus, but that's still what it is. It is a piece of realestate that Omni-Tek has leased.

While you and the Clanners are visiting our campus and until you can support yourselves by paying your own rent, I don't think it's too much to ask of you to follow a few simple rules.

Miss McCallagher, while it might not be anything but a dusty playground for you, it is the home for thousands of people; both clan, neutral and omnis, many of which who can never leave, even if thy wanted to. What right do you or any other person have to take the home away from a person?

As far as I know the lease Omni-Tek holds includes the right to make use of resources on this planet. A right that ICC itself removed, making it non-exclusive. Maybe you should direct your anger towards the ICC instead of the clans?

There are people on this planet who doesn't acknowledge Omni-Tek as a supreme power and government. These people has as much right to live as you, Miss McCallagher, like it or not. And by live I mean the right to have a normal life with freedom of speech, right to make a home, to have education and to live a normal life on the planet they call home. Just like you call Rubi-Ka home too, I'm sure.

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Tussa


There are people on this planet who doesn't acknowledge Omni-Tek as a supreme power and government. These people has as much right to live as you, Miss McCallagher, like it or not. And by live I mean the right to have a normal life with freedom of speech, right to make a home, to have education and to live a normal life on the planet they call home. Just like you call Rubi-Ka home too, I'm sure.

Tussa, I agree with all you say. I am just a little confused as what the problem is. Clans rule the north, Omni-Tek rules the south and its been that way for an awful long time.

I've been up north. I've seen a proseperous, industrious people with a taste for extravagant parties and not a down-trodden group refugees with your back against the wall.

Nothing is in fact stopping you from living a perfectly safe and normal life. The fact that we are having this discussions suggests we both enjoy freedom of speech. The Athen War Accademy and Tir School of Engineering are just two fine examples of Clan educational institutions. And when you think about it, the only city that has sustained actual physical damage in the past few years in Omni Ent.

Of course if you choose to go into notum mining, you take the chances as any Omni or Neutral organisation - you can blame the ICC for that. If you choose to earn you living as a soldier or bounty hunter, clearing out the nests of criminals for money or travel out on your own in remote, wild areas places where the suppression gases is thin, you also take the same chances as any Omni or Neutral citizen.

I think the real trouble is that a number of clan leaders talk up the war all the time because the power they can exhert on their subjects is derived directly from the fear of Omni-Tek. The day Joe-the-Average-Clanner wakes up and figures that the war ended two centuries ago and Omni-Tek doesn't particularly care about what the Clanners get up to, the current Clan leadership will be all out of a job.

Savoy

[Tussa]

Originally posted by Savoy
Tussa, I agree with all you say. I am just a little confused as what the problem is. Clans rule the north, Omni-Tek rules the south and its been that way for an awful long time.

I've been up north. I've seen a proseperous, industrious people with a taste for extravagant parties and not a down-trodden group refugees with your back against the wall.

Miss Kaba, you are perfectly right. The clans are fully capable to make their own living and live good lives. But when things are said on behalf of Omni-Tek..things that suggests that there is a possibility it won't stay that way, do you not see that it aggrivates the very same people who live that good life today? We want to keep it this way, just like your employer wants to keep their lease. We want our children to live on a planet where there isn't a neverending threat of "Omni-Tek will do as it wants, because Omni-Tek owns this planet". Just like I'm sure you want your children to live a safe life in the care of the hyper corporation that has taken care of you.

The north of Rubi-Ka are generally spoken of as the clan territories, but there is nothing written. We get to hear that we live here on Omni-Teks mercy and that we should be thankful that we're even allowed to breathe the fresh air without paying rent for it. We get to hear that we're parasites, living off of the welth and prosperity of Omni-Tek, without putting any kind of hard work in it ourselves. We are not acknowledged, officially. And when we try making a council that could very well lead the clans under a united flag, and make treaties with your board of directors, we get to hear that it will never work, that we're all a bunch of indecisive brutal thugs who can't agree on anything. The idea of a clan council is spit upon before it has even started. Now...that is not reaching out a hand.

It has been 200 some years since the war had a humane reason. These days it's about something else. About econimic value and acknowledgement. That is what we want. Acknowledgement that we are part of this planet, and thus part of the entity that governs it for the future, until we are all dead and our childrens children govern it.

The clans are not a poverty ridden, illiterate, flea infested people who cannot make their own lives work out. But the overhanging shadow of "You're only here on Omni-Teks mercy" is simply not good enough. Is that so hard to see?

[Ulltima]

Originally posted by Tussa
... We want our children to live on a planet where there isn't a neverending threat of "Omni-Tek will do as it wants, because Omni-Tek owns this planet". Just like I'm sure you want your children to live a safe life in the care of the hyper corporation that has taken care of you.

That much is true. Unfortunately, thanks to the ICC, we now have the Notum Wars to contend with.

It has been 200 some years since the war had a humane reason. These days it's about something else. About econimic value and acknowledgement. That is what we want. Acknowledgement that we are part of this planet, and thus part of the entity that governs it for the future, until we are all dead and our childrens children govern it.

It's funny that you mention that. Upon retrospect, I realized something... both the Clans and OT-RK are here now thanks to the ICC. The ICC essentially owns the planet; we are just renting it and reaping the profits from the notum mines.

What if it wasn't like that? What if every hyper-corp in the known universe set up shop here to mine notum? If you think things are bad now... I hardly want to imagine what it would be like if the entire planet was terraformed and crawling with mining towers and people with itchy trigger fingers.

That sort of thing is exactly what Omni-Tek employees are afraid of. So it stands to reason that Omni-Tek, as a corporation that is the sole legal distributor of notum, doesn't want this sort of competition. It hurts our image. It hurts our profit margin. Worse yet, if the Council of Truth were to be reformed and become a viable, sovereign entity, it turns OT-RK into a laughing stock... a weak sibling that can't take care of a small insurrection within its ranks.

Let's say for the sake of arguement that the CoT does rebuild itself, the Clans are given their independence, and a peace treaty is signed. OK... now the Clans have the north and OT-RK has the south. Seems simple enough...

The neutrals - as weak as they are, they are still a part of Rubi-Ka's political dynamic - still have to be reckoned with. They will start clamoring for recognition. To save his image, Boss Ross will have to acknowledge them, as will the CoT.

Now we have THREE soveriegn entities on Rubi-Ka. The ICC will demand that the Clanners and Neuts sign their own leases. If they refuse, the ICC will beat them down. Why? Because if the Clanners and Neuts get their pieces of the pie, EVERYONE ELSE will want to get some too. Next thing you know, SOL Banking will have dropships in orbit. Then everyone else will jump into the system and want to get land.

You think things are bad now and need to be changed? Wait until everyone and their mothers show up to get a piece of the notum pie... then we'll talk.

Sincerely,

Gabriella "Ulltima" Rouse

[_________Enforcedman]

Originally posted by Meister
Well... Khastity... and people were wondering why I thought the new CoT will fail. The clans will never ever unite under one banner. Contrary to Omni-Tek, which is one corporation, despite its many departments, the clans are a bunch of uncoordinated, spoiled and demanding barbarians.

You are out to preserve the status quo of the clans. To keep the rule of the large clans, strengthen their might to crush the smaller clans under their oppression and attacking Omni-Tek at every opportunity. With your mindset and your far-fetched, self-centered attitude and expectations which are blown out of proportions, you will never have a democratic government created on this planet, nor will you achieve lasting change for the better.

I pity you for wasting your energy trying something which has failed before, attempted by wiser people than you.

Maybe because Omni-Tek employees don`t have a choice to choose, if they leave OT they will be branded terrorists or enemies against Omni-Tek, so they would rather live under the dictation that Omni-Tek has.

And when you descripe clans as spoiled and barbarians..demanding one as well, i really have to laugh.
You feel safe behind your OP troops and thick walls saying these kinda things. It`s almost you wish that every clanner wanna hunt you down. First of all, how can you call us uncoordinated, we have formed cities and now we are forming a new council, a council that wants peace, but again, Omni-tek wants that council wiped out, and why you may ask yourself, seems like Omni-Pol feels scared.

Afterall, if CoT manage to come out with a peace, who should Omni-Pol and the rest of the armed forces fight against? many would loose theire jobs if CoT manage to breed out a peace.

[Fixerben]

Ultima if what you are saying were to happen I might jump for joy. Let me explain:

If other companies came to Rubi-Ka then that would mean that OT no longer has a monopoly on Notum. And that their control over the planet has been relinquished.

This will mean that we will face other threats certainly. Other corporations may come in and try to muscle in on the planet. But that is why we need to establish ourselves now. To me this has nothing to do with a war that was started by a revolt 200 years ago. Its not about the money. Its not about fear of some corporate take over. Our reasons are not for the past, but for our future. The uncertain future that we roll further into each day. A future that right now has no direction. We are tumbling through a dark hole where there once was light.

For our future, and for the future of those to come after us we need to establish ourselver here and now.

In honesty, and from talking to my cousin Fixerben, I'm beginning to wonder how long this is going to take. Since I've been on the planet and trying to help with this new Council I have seen no progress. Promises of meetings, but still no word on when they will happen. It seems that many of us are being left out of the loop on the current happenings of the new Council. And by many of us, I mean those not in the EG alliance. I understand that EG guilds are the major proponent in the organization of this new Council, but in order for this to be a Democratic Council you cant have it formed by one group.

Its time for everyone to know whats going on, and to get the Clans involved in their future.

[Vixentrox]

Got to lay a ground work first or it will fail. Pure and simple. That is what is being worked on...laying the foundation so all Clans that wish to be represented can take part in a smoothly running Council instead of some noisy, ineffective rabble. It takes a lot of work and effort to build this foundation, get contacts, arrange a grid site, ect. Progress is being made and all Clan leaders are welcome to visit the temporary home of the CoT gridforums which Clan Assembly (a NON-EG Clan) is hosting and register their name and Clan.

Anyone who is expecting the CoT to reform and be functional over night is mistaken. It's not going to happen like that and rushing forward without the foundation will ensure failure.

[Shadowset]

Originally posted by Savoy

Nothing is in fact stopping you from living a perfectly safe and normal life. The fact that we are having this discussions suggests we both enjoy freedom of speech.... ...And when you think about it, the only city that has sustained actual physical damage in the past few years in Omni Ent.

Savoy

Nothing? You call be woken up in the morning with explosions going off nothing? You call walking down the street in Old Athens on the way to the store, when Omni-Shock Troopers show up out of thin air and shoot you dead nothing? You call having your family kidnapped or killed by Omni-Tek Corp. nothing? You call finding out that your wanted "Dead or Alive" for wanting peace nothing?

You Mdm. should come spend a day in our shoes so you can understand that we sit not on a bed of roses..

Andrew

[Fixerben]

Originally posted by Vixentrox
Got to lay a ground work first or it will fail. Pure and simple. That is what is being worked on...laying the foundation so all Clans that wish to be represented can take part in a smoothly running Council instead of some noisy, ineffective rabble. It takes a lot of work and effort to build this foundation, get contacts, arrange a grid site, ect. Progress is being made and all Clan leaders are welcome to visit the temporary home of the CoT gridforums which Clan Assembly (a NON-EG Clan) is hosting and register their name and Clan.

Anyone who is expecting the CoT to reform and be functional over night is mistaken. It's not going to happen like that and rushing forward without the foundation will ensure failure.

Well, I see that it only took a little push to get some kind of information. This is more than I've gotten from anyone else. I dont remember anyone asking for this to happen over night, but I do remember someone asking for this "project" as you call it to be made public and to give us information, and notification of progress. And now you have done that.

Thanks Vix.

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Boomtastic


Nothing? You call be woken up in the morning with explosions going off nothing? You call walking down the street in Old Athens on the way to the store, when Omni-Shock Troopers show up out of thin air and shoot you dead nothing? You call having your family kidnapped or killed by Omni-Tek Corp. nothing? You call finding out that your wanted "Dead or Alive" for wanting peace nothing?

You Mdm. should come spend a day in our shoes so you can understand that we sit not on a bed of roses..

Andrew

There was a OT commando operation in Athen about 3 weeks ago. This had the specific aim of rescuing an Omni pilot, lieutenant Christian Furuseth, from a clan prison. The operation failed and what was meant as a "quick in and out" and the Omni troops got bogged down in bloody street fighting, which is unfortunate if not unjustified. Had the situation been revesed - clans storming Rome to free a captive - would you be as critical?

Other than that, I am not aware there have been military operations againts Clan cities for the longest of time. I fully expect many more clan guards die every year at the hands of fellow clanners than from Omni forces - sadly we have the exact same problem with out guards.

Savoy

[Dabblez]

Originally posted by Tussa


The north of Rubi-Ka are generally spoken of as the clan territories, but there is nothing written. We get to hear that we live here on Omni-Teks mercy and that we should be thankful that we're even allowed to breathe the fresh air without paying rent for it. We get to hear that we're parasites, living off of the welth and prosperity of Omni-Tek, without putting any kind of hard work in it ourselves. We are not acknowledged, officially. And when we try making a council that could very well lead the clans under a united flag, and make treaties with your board of directors, we get to hear that it will never work, that we're all a bunch of indecisive brutal thugs who can't agree on anything. The idea of a clan council is spit upon before it has even started. Now...that is not reaching out a hand.

It has been 200 some years since the war had a humane reason. These days it's about something else. About econimic value and acknowledgement. That is what we want. Acknowledgement that we are part of this planet, and thus part of the entity that governs it for the future, until we are all dead and our childrens children govern it.

The clans are not a poverty ridden, illiterate, flea infested people who cannot make their own lives work out. But the overhanging shadow of "You're only here on Omni-Teks mercy" is simply not good enough. Is that so hard to see?

In many ways I agree. There was a piece of paper that gave the Clans legal rights to the North of Rubi-Ka, it was called the Tir Accord. When the Council of Truth fell, mostly due to pressure from within the Clans, the Tir Accord became void.

I support the formation of a new Council of Truth. And I am hoping that with its restoration, the Tir Accord can be rescued. But at the end of the day, Omni-Tek will be out of your hair in 50 years. Can't you see your long term your issues are actually with the ICC, and that this centurey long struggle with Omni-Tek is getting with each passing day more an more redundant?

Omni-Tek don't particularly care about that clans either way. Now if only the Clan could learn not to care about Omni-Tek we'd be a lot better neighbours.

Savoy

[Cogs]

Omni-Tek don't particularly care about that clans either way.

Is that a fact? Judging from what goes on here, I cant say there are convincing arguments to support that.

I would love to beleive it though, and see your people back this up. It would give us the peace and quiet we need to establish the new CoT, without the constant harassing by Omni-Pol & Co.

[Sukea]

Originally posted by Meister
Well... Khastity... and people were wondering why I thought the new CoT will fail. The clans will never ever unite under one banner. Contrary to Omni-Tek, which is one corporation, despite its many departments, the clans are a bunch of uncoordinated, spoiled and demanding barbarians.

You are out to preserve the status quo of the clans. To keep the rule of the large clans, strengthen their might to crush the smaller clans under their oppression and attacking Omni-Tek at every opportunity. With your mindset and your far-fetched, self-centered attitude and expectations which are blown out of proportions, you will never have a democratic government created on this planet, nor will you achieve lasting change for the better.

I pity you for wasting your energy trying something which has failed before, attempted by wiser people than you.

Meister,
I am now extremely sorry I was nice to you at the Omni-pol officers ball this year... I should have just ridiculed you like many of my fellow officers...

Well Meister what if we replace in your statement above each place you use clan with the word department....and each place you use omnitek with Clan ....Lets see how that works..

Originally posted by Meister but Edited by Khastity
Well... Meister... and people wonder why I know OT will fall from on high. The Departments can never be controlled centrally by 1 corporation. Contrary to Clan, which is a diverse group of people wishing for a federalized governement in order to give respect to its many clans and each of their diverse needs.

The departments are a bunch of uncoordinated, spoiled and demanding boring boards filled with lazy directors. You are out to preserve the status quo of your Department. To keep the rule of the large Departments, strengthen and use their might to crush the smaller Departments keeping the smaler departments under your oppression and attacking Clanners at every opportunity. With your mindset and your far-fetched, self-centered attitude and expectations, which are blown out of proportion You will never have a a centralized feudalistic department on this planet Meister. Nor will you ever achieve the barbary of your forefathers ever again on Rubi-Ka because Clans and their future governing body will be a lasting change for the better.

I pity you for wasting your energy trying comprehend an issue you obviously are to slow to grasp...perhaps you should go and watch a a board room slide show which are usually geared to those that have the attention span of a 2 year old.....

Next time someone is kind to you....show them respect....not ingratitude and spite.

Khastity