Seems to me that human NPCs are twice as hard to fight as before and twice as hard to fight as other MOBs at the same level. What causes this and when could it be fixed? I tried 5 missions now, and I had to give up on all of them, since it's just too hard for my poor adventurer. The human NPCs heal eachother like crazy too...
I tried a mission at 50% (middle of the bar) last night. Healing myself 3-4 times a battle I barely scraped through the mission until I came to a NPC adventurer. I'm level 37. The adventurer did 32 points of damage per hit, with a damage shield that did 15 points of damage. In addition to this, my QL38 Peasant Executioner and its Fast attack ALWAYS did the minimum 5 points of damage. My QL 32 Rider Executioner performed far better, averaging a measely 25 points of damage per hit. To make matters worse, every time the adventurer got down to half hitpoints, he healed up to 2/3.
To put it simply, MOBs have way, way too high an armor class right now, and fast, light weapons are totally useless against NPCs now.
Another note. Against mutants, I seem to take an enormous amounts of damage. Especially the TACs that do chemical damage. 80 points of damage per hit despite a 500 chemical AC. Ouch! These facts, combined with the fact that its now impossible to run missions makes the game almost unplayable for my adventurer.
Yup... min damage a big problem.
My now level 47 MA is doing minimum damage against human NPCs, and I know this is the case with all the other MAs I was complaining with in guild chat.
It really depends on the mob you're fighting. And it definitely depends on their AC. I did a mission with non-human NPCs and it was great. Speedy, not a chore. But when I got to my other mission... well, ugh. The only thing that saved me was Blessed with Thunder, because I was doing even more minimum damage than before the patch.
Before the patch, I'd do min damage against certain orange NPCs, such as soldiers and enforcers.
Now I'm doing minimum damage to those same NPCs, no matter their level. Gray, green, yellow. Sometimes I'll sneak in a 450-560 brawl, but that's rare. And my fight, which goes something along the lines of 45, 45, 45, 47, 48. 50, will be interrupted with a 128. But usually it's just 47, 47, 47, 47, 47, and interrupted by a slightly higher brawl and the Blessed with Thunder energy attacks, that always hit for their minimum damage, too.
A fight with a non-human NPC goes something like this: 200, 100, 200, 150, 70, 99, and that's without BwT and brawl.
Somebody in my guild suggested this might have something to do with the new PvP rules. Only thing is, mobs have so many more HPs than the average player, so that really doesn't make sense.
If the mob were a player, pale orange, and depending on class, I'd probably have an easier time fighting that real human player than his/her pale orange NPC counterpart. Yeah, I'd probably be hitting min damage, but at least it would be more balanced in terms of hitpoints.
Anyway, MAs and other classes who use fists are already the masters of minimum damage -- this has only added to the problem and has caused me to take a serious break from AO.
I think it's worse than that.
I just got out of doing a 50% difficulty mission. Mobs ranged from grey to high orange for a start, with the yellows and oranges paired in large rooms, so no certainty of a token and some damn hard fights even before this patch.
After managing to single pull a few yellows and 2 oranges, and having the fights of my life I noticed something.
ALL the mobs were regenerating, even the greens and greys (not that it saved them), the higher level mobs were regenerating fast enough that I reckon they had to take 150% of their normal HP to kill, and then some of them healed 5-6 times on top of that.
I killed all I could, some of the oranges and yellows (especially adventurers) took so long to kill I had to refresh my own HoT and finished some fights long after it had run out again (yes folks, yellow mobs that take 10 minutes to kill), but I was finally balked on the last two rooms, paired high orange scouts.
I desperately hope this is a bug, or else I'm going to be unable to complete missions that have anything above a low yellow healing mob.
Wolfen.
AKA Gridwolf, 47th Fixer.
on human mobs, lots of min damage hits.
Yeah, I heard a soldier was hitting for about 2 on a regular basis. A level 70 soldier. Well, when I snuck in a Bird of Prey (fights are taking so long that I can wait for my Blessed with Thunder to cycle and throw in another attack like Bird of Prey), it hit for around 27. Hehe. Sigh!Originally posted by ULTRA1
on human mobs, lots of min damage hits.
Yes human NPC's are So hard to kill now. I noticed it just after patch was released but as allways u cant count on mausser because they have so wide dmg range - But after awhile I could really see something was wrong - One time I wrote all dmg down from my side.
On a Green Rookie soldier my QL 100 mausser did this dmg:
31, 20, 396 (burst), 33, 74, 149, 40, 56, 76, 151, 43, 91, 65, 71, 377 (crit), 83, 13, 161, 59, 86, 235 (burst), 49, 133 - That gives me an average shot (Not counting the times were I didnt hit at all, and not counting burst): 88 dmg from a Ql 100 weapon ?! - Come on.. tell me I didnt waste about a 100k on this weapon (buy weapon, new implants, skill wrangle) for an average shot on 88 ...
Kohistan
Fixer
My 2 Cents
This has definately put a new dimension on things.... On top of the missions not owrking its now so hard to kill the mobs that I no longer want to try doing a 50% mission. I am a lvl69 soldier whom teammates usually could rely on to do a decent amount of damage... or perhaps save the doc on hunts (especially important now that doc`s seem to aggro everything). I am getting 2 dmg hits from a ql90 Nova and a ql102 XM. I have spent close to 700.000k on implants and weapons...(and god knows how much time). my average hits on the nova are about 45 and the xm (when the reload bug doesnt stop me firing, or take it easy.....or waiting for previous special attack...) does about 100dmg on avg.
13.0 did some nice thngs with the gphx, but definately did nothing for PvM. You have managed to take almost all of the fun out of the game Funcom.... with the tech difficulties in 13.0 you now risk loosing a lot of players who thought the game was getting good with 12.9.
Before anyone starts ranting about the fact that I havent given any new info to the programmers, I`d like to say that all of this is something they should have tested and found out on the test server.... there are simply too many errors in everyday normal tasks that they could have missed them.
I have always noticed that I hit Human or Cyborg NPCs for significantly less damage than animals. In a fight against an animal I might do 300-700 damage per hit while against a human of the same lvl, I might do 100-300 per hit.
In teaming with a group doing lvl 160-180 missions, I don't notice that the doc gets aggrod more than the rest of us. They do aggro him eventually but that is only because his DOT is hitting well. I am lvl 105 atm and the test of the team is lvl 125-137. We have one doc and 3-4 MAs and me.We seem to be able to handle the missions very well up to about lvl 180, after that, there are too many masters and vets and you get adds like crazy.
Consider doing group misions, it is a good way to still get money because you can do a mission alot higher than your level and you will also get good xp killing the MOBs.
O b i t u s Atrox Clan Enforcer My trade skill? Smackin' stuff till it cries! Obi's Rig
Unit Memer of S t o r m
Never Forget
heh, and I though the mobs just got rediculus powerful once more.
Well I guess that explains my problems as well. Good thing I have good implants and armor, or I would probably have the same problem as that agent I helped out with a mission yesterday.
*Taking this massively off topic*
Where/how did you get that avatar???
"Ah, but a man's reach should exceed his grasp, Or what's a heaven for?" - Robert Browning
Leroy "Hossley" Prabel
Lv 82 OT Fixer - RK1
No kidding... I thought this was only on Test... Sheesh. Last night, I went through *12* Full Autos against a green adv. type mob, and never did more than 16 points of damage on any normal shot. This is with a lvl 37 soldier, maxed attacks, QL50 assault rifle (Can't remember the type, but it's got a really great crit for a projectile weapon) against a green mob that showed POD as being only 2 ticks away from grey. pretty idiotic... And then I can take out orange probes with little trouble. Shouldn't that be the other way around? I mean, probes are made of metal... *shrug* I don't understand funcom. Neocron should be out soon... if they don't decide that it's not ready to leave beta again. (They seem to have taken funcom's foul-ups to heart.
Thoroughly disgusted,
Theanna
(Horrible thought... Maybe they decided to do a partial rollback to 12.6?)
Last edited by Theanna; Nov 16th, 2001 at 16:48:41.
Usually I team up with a group of friends and do 100% red missions who are all about L65-80. The missions are usually about L125+
We do these missions as a challenge, but now it's getting silly.
We enter the building and hit a mob hard. Usually I'll pull and TRS 3 up for 31 seconds (TRS 2 now tho - see tank nano). This buys us enough time to get in some heavy damage, and we'll normally steal about 5k-6k HP from the mob before if we have to bail.
So when we run outside, we heal up. Spend perhaps 10 to 20 seconds getting ourselves back in order and head back in. Human NPC's will have regenerated around 2.5k HP back in 20 seconds.
If we have someone die in the mission, then you can kiss that 5k damage goodbye completely. We've actually stood in the entrance and watched how fast they regen HP.
Now some may say "but they are L125+ mobs", but be serious.
Why did I spend money on crazy high QL implants if I'm hitting min damage all the time and barely surviving fights? Okay, okay, I'm talking about fights against light orange mobs, but after this patch, I'm doing min even to green and grey mobs of the soldier or enforcer variety. I win those those fights easily, but man, before it took about a second to dispatch a gray mob in a mission. Now it might take a good deal longer if it's a high AC profession.
Grays -- no experience. Shouldn't take more than a few seconds to kill. And they should NOT be appearing in 50% missions, nor should oranges. Greens, okay, they should be pretty easy. I shouldn't be hitting them for minimum damage.
I seem to do a little better against adventurers, but if the AC or damage shield is too good, I hit for min with my fists. And what gets me is it's not just MAs anymore. The only person I know who isn't complaining is an engineer, whose bot is NOT hitting for minimum damage. So lucky him. He doesn't have to tank and his bot still kicks ass, though he does admit that his pet seems to be attacking with less speed.
I think this is a big problem. Not because I shirk challenges, but because it's just way too time consuming and I use a TON of treatment kits/nano rechargers (well, that's not a big deal, but I often run out during the course of a mission -- 50-100 nano/health kits?!?). And I often have to flee from the mission, whereas that was VERY rare before 13.0.
Well, I'm happy they're fixing location and the broken item/describe missions today. At least I hope they are successful.
But the things that should be addressed, so I don't have to start yet another newbie because my MA isn't much fun anymore, are as follows:
- Please take a look at MOB AC and any other factors that would possibly affect damage output PvM.
- Please fix it so that we get only green mobs for average (50%) missions. If I could count on NOT getting these pale orange mobs that I can barely handle post 13.0, then it wouldn't be so bad. I don't know if this will be addressed in today's server-side patch, but I do think it's an important issue nonetheless.
- Study the way mobs are regaining their hitpoints. WE, the human players, don't gain our hitpoints back so quickly. Hardly fair to give us mobs that we can barely solo and have to leave the mission numerous times to kill, only to find they've nearly healed up in the time it took for us to recharge with nano/health kits.
Well, that's all. At least for this topic.
- Misophist/Frenetic/Yardleigh
Last edited by Misophist; Nov 16th, 2001 at 18:54:13.
since 13.0 me and the other gun users i group with do a LOT less damage than we used to do at our usual hunting spot (all humanoid npcs)
Add me to the list! Since 13.0 ive been doing far less Dmg to human mobs in missions. It was really annoying, i had to give up on them all! It was bloomin annoying! Fix it FC!
Serofina - Currently in the process of revival after a nasty incident with some uber leets. We're still looking for her head...
Teebo - Voted the most stylish person ever to grace Rubi-ka in a recent poll, organised by himself.
Official starter of the hugely succesful Blackmarket Thread!
I'm having the same results. I'm a 41 Fixer with a QL 57 Mausser. I have always been able to do Medium difficulty missions, but not now. Today I was doing TERRIBLE damage against humanoids level 38-40. I had one crit that I could see in about 8 fights, and burst never did more than a normal shot. The fights last MUCH longer and if it's a healer I'm totally screwed. I used to be able to handle healers, due to my HOT.
I can't even do a yellow monster without zoning now, and that's using everything I have.
Owee.
Well, i agree with you all; mobs are too tough now, ridiciously uber IMO.
Anyway, i've been thinking about the developement of the NPC issue throughout the game (yes, i've been here since day 1).
Early in the game, the developers noticed we (the players) was able to take out mobs pretty fast and easy. So they changed it, making them a bit harder. Then they added buffs to the NPCs, to make them just a tad harder, and more challenging. We all agree on that right? Now to the issue here. Early in the game, and all the way to 12.8, people were enable to install insanely high QL implants due to the "surgery station bug", making us able to equip and use uber stuff in the game. Of course this made it easier to kill mobs ! Then they fixed the treatement bug, and made NO replacements (ie perhaps making use of mobile clinics (!)). This led ALOT of players unable to install higher ql implants, thus making them "weaker" in the game. The NPCs still stayed just as uber. This is why we (the chars after 12.8) are having a hard time generally in missions, unable to do more than perhaps 55-60% solo.
And now the 13.0 hit us with the worse issue ever. Thing is, whether this is a bug or intended (perhaps the new PvP rules slid into the NPC codes as well?), Funcom, you are making gameplay time taking, boring and tedious ! I for once won't spend like 2 hours just cruising a 50% mission due ot the fact that i gotta spend an average 10-20 per mob. This is outragious.
So, in general, tone down the NPCs...they have way too high Crits (even though my evade is pretty high, i still take 4-5 crits in a fight), they have too high Evades (i miss ALOT), their AC is insane (min dmg, avg of 5-50 on a ql82 Nova), their minimum dmg is through the roof (i'm uber on armour myself), and they shoot fast like the devil himself (they get 2-3 shots on me per my one !).
And please...for gods sake, use the friggin test server as it is intended to be !
Thank you
Uber concerned player....
Last edited by Inzidious; Nov 17th, 2001 at 05:37:34.
Regen rate on mobs is combat at level 60 + is looking like about 100 - 125 HP regen every 12 seconds.
If I miss I actually see the damn health bar of thiers moving up... and no they are not healing or being healed.
REGEN is amazing... I dont get that type of regen with the best doc buff on me.
To top that off I have almost 2500 AC is the majors and these guys are popping me for 45 every shot ? WTF they never hit for less than one of two numbers.
45 constant with 113 as a critical hit. Here I am doing 14's to them knowing they have no where near the AC I have.
I dont get it... I am 63 now wearing QL 110 elite and std Omni Pol and these guys are pummeling me. Why do they not have a min damage cap? I am getting beat on by a green and i mean beat on because they have no dmg min (more like a max) and have this huge regen rate and a huge AC that I can not figure out.
Looking for love in all the wrong places Im sure!
PVP changes and Human MOB difficulties
Yep, i have a feeling that the human NPC's are somehow also tied into the PC datadase and when they halved damage for PC's they tweaked something on the mobs too, my lvl 55 MA used to be able to solo oranges no problem.. i did two missions and got my butt kicked by light greens.
I had to start a new character, my MA with FULL QL50 Implants, 1400 AC all QL64-70, senpai cloak, etc. SubG, Healing, Dirty fighter is unplayable now at his level unless i want to eek through 45% missions half filled with grey mobs that take way too long to kill.
*sigh*
Posting Permissions
