Traders are BETTER at healing the DOCS! Fix! Bump

[Peep]

Traders are NOT better healers than Docs!


Docs top team heal is QL 185
Skills required are green
(not a good doc that relys on this type of heal)

Traders top team heal QL 182
Skills required are blue and dark blue
(traders best heal although unreliable due to down times following deprives)

Docs top single heal Q169
Skills required are green
(this is the heal the doc should use most of the time)

Traders top single heal Q159
Skills required are blue and dark blue
(don't know any traders that use this nano)

Health buffs traders don't have:
Team health buff
single heath buff
constant heal


The only thing traders have is the ability to buff with difficulty their nano skills so they are able to use their top nanos sooner.

[________________cson]

I don't think human Traders actually use the health haggler. Most Traders use the delayed health payment line. It's a team heal, but it works just as good as a self heal.

[Letah]

Originally posted by Tink
Letah I have both a high level Doc and Trader and am afraid you are mistaken docs are far better healers.

I was talking healing trader.

Ok first thing to note here is that a Doc's BM&MM skills are green where as they BM&TS are dark & light blue for the trader. So you cannot compare QL the same. A doc can cast a Q140 heal a lot sooner unbuffed than a trader can.

true, but you have no conflicting implants= +40 skills, we dont have that. maxed lightblue and green differ that exact amount.

This is true but Traders would much prefer to have Q200 PM&SI implants than TS&BM

Like I said above, healtrader. I will do TS/BM

Ok my Trader is L137 to use the 1k team heal I must cast 2 x deprives and 2 x plunders to get my nano skills high enough this means at a very minimum the team has to kill 4 mobs before I can heal (providing there are no counters or fumbles). After I cast a deprive or plunder I cannot cast a heal for 8 seconds.

your not TS/BM implanted. You're no healtrader.

The deprives and plunders last for 3 minutes to maintain my buffed skill level I normaly cast a deprive on one mob and then a plunder on the next so each for mob i fight that is 8 seconds I cannot heal.

your not TS/BM implanted. You're no healtrader.

Between levels 120-150 Traders might seem like better healers (whist buffed) remember that the 1k heal is the best we can ever get this is not so for a doc. Unbuffed which is what I would be when facing the 3 mobs in the first room my best heal atm is 300.

your not TS/BM implanted. You're no healtrader.

Traders can cast faster? I suggest you put your att-deff slider to full attack get a recompiler and put points to nano init you will find you can cast fast too.

I instacast all, even Complete Heal.. i'm, like everyone, talkng RECHARGE times here. Yours are WAY faster.

Dont forget Traders are computers guru. This is Rubi-Ka, we negotiate trades through and with computers and nano-bot circuitry.

So computernerds can heal persons better then surgeons? lol.

When was the last time FC made a patch to make a profession better? Only times when it happened are bugs =p

FC asked us heal people to comment on the comparisons between the classes and their heal abilities thus im doing so. I also emailed support and they were very happy with the thread and the ideas the docs gave as alternatives (see our super busy *ahum* doc forum). I'm doing what was requested, I suggest you help suggesting instead of flaming us to the ground, we're not even IN the love-schedule, give is a break.

Buffs? Tradeskill-buffs and a evade-buff, which is worse than the ones MA gets. Trust me, traders have no buffs for combat. They have drains, and they have wrangles (for pre-combat buffing).

A heal-trader wants to heal, I think I'd prefer a trader who heals me frmo death with the super-min healings then a doc who gave me +800 more hp and has a 50 ncu worthless hot running in my ncu.


Why are you so surprised btw? Lately we docs get a lot "we dont need you doc, we got a trader in team and he can do better heals and can wrangle us too for UVC!". I'm happy I got an extensive group of friends to team with and a great guild, built not all docs are so fortunate. I talk with a lot docs online and nearly all agree with me that they feel they are becomming worthless now people realize what traders can do. deprive? Go run an MP buff then.. the doc's that chose to be pure healers; whom I respect the most are now forced to take up arms jsut to get in teams, that's so wrong! I was a heal doc from 1 to 140 as well and I'm now carrying that boring 199 Ithaca like every damn class.

Where was the time all people said "did you tip your doc today?" etc? Lately doc's dont get tips anymore (1-100), they will just get tarders or good pet classes. MP pet's can heal nicely.

[Letah]

To prevent the suddent increase of traders trying to stop improvements for the bad sides of docs i posted this on both doc and this thread.

Originally posted by Noer
Again as Auno said... requirements on them are not primary trader nano-skills. So even if the requirements look alike, they are not as easy for a trader to selfcast as a doctor.

But Letah, do you only heal with team heals? If that nano alone is the only heal doc uses something is wrong.

Until 14.0 it was the only way to keep those pesky runners (esp. nt and agent) alive. They would run or just stand on a slope, behind a chair or anything and thats not LOS, teamheals didnt care about LOS. Well, not it's different, now I have to become very angry at them for running, I dont want to be like that, heck I'd even run too with 8mill unsaved.

2nd reason why teamheals are a must is the hp bars that are bugged. With 3 real means I'm not gonna take chances with those damn bugged bars "heal me!!" while I see a 100% hp bar is often the case if I would only heal if I see a 70% bar.

Single heals, oh I use them of course if I see a tank doing 1 person but lately its just team vs mob "team" and they all get dmged. People suck lately at keeping aggro unlike a year ago for a reason I do not know (im not an aggro expert). Only some good enforcers can.

I often get comments from people "you're the best doc!", just because I always spam my teamheal button during combat. They like to get healed when they lost 400hp just because they will know they are back to full, loosing 800hp is tricky because my crap heal/teamheal may not get him back to 100%, and hey, after that single heal I may have to target someone else who got aggro, leaving him dmged (and more afraid).

14.0 made it a lot trickier with the chairs, slopes and water, esp in that bossroom. I usually run inside the person now, cast heal or complete and go to an other. Not something I really ejoy, and whilst doing that they loose me as dmg dealer (and yes, I do dmg, a lot of times I outdmg trader,soldier and enf (lucky crits etc, you know the drill)).

If you use a teamheal 10 QL's lower then ours, true, you get a lower max heal then we do, but the min heal is still better. We often heal for min. heal. It's jsut not fair that you get near-same heals while we are the docs here, and we're beginning to feel the community is noticing it too, they dont want docs anymore (lower lvl end, not the ones that cast complete).

I'm not sure why you traders are trying so hard to put us down here by denying us better heals. We all agreed on that nerfing you was no option, why do you try to stop FC/the community and just saying "you're just whining!" basically (not in those words, I know).

We use you, traders as a comparison why its so bad, we have our own problems like the bugged hp bars, min heals we do often, and now the LOS change. At least let us try do our jobs better: saving your arses.


To show you one of the teamheals I use (the 2nd best in the game, Halo of Health) http://antiguardians.org/itemdb.php?...ano=1&id=43893

Heals: 475 - 935

Now what we docs often get with it (I think I know, im the teamheal spammer remember? )
480
510
475
490
530
900!
490
530
720
650
480

etc. etc. Thats our QL182 heal and only usable at lvl 155ish.

Now I take a QL123 (!!!) teamheal of yours:
Heals: 560 - 644

That would get a better average then our high-end Ql182 teamheal. I don't knoe your skills in certain fields but I think I can safely say you can use that QL123 heal without divest earlier then my teamheal that I can use at lvl 155?

Letah.

[_________haniblecter]

Eat me,

Ill post my trader hate where it will be appreciated!

IN THE TRADER FORUM MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

[_______________Quazz]

bump

[Thyrra]

this is a fix docs thread. i know the title and all the traders-are-uber--oh-no-we're-not posts might make it seem otherwise.

there is a problem indeed. docs can get boring and feel underpowered and a drain on the team. there is a reason why there are so few docs running around lately. with less docs out there it is good that other profs have healing abilities. this helps to keep teams going when they can't find a doc.

docs need to be the undesputed healing champions of the universe; and then some (i'm biased). after that docs need more. even if they can heal an army single handedly it will get boring to play a doc at some point, like every other prof, with the current prof content and game content.

[Letah]

Don't want to diss your post hanni but pelase don't post it here, its kind off-topic

Edit: nm Thyr was before me

[_____________Ryuzaki]

a new line of nanos i would like to see for docs and which could help ungimp that prof

docs schould be one of the profs able to prevent damage

here it comes:

a reflect nano like the soldier/engineer reflect line
which do not stack with other reflect nanos
and instead of dealing damage to the attacker, redirect a % of the reflected damage as nano or health points to the victim

this nano line should be as easy to get as any other doc nano
bcause it will use ts/mc like other reflect nanos which are hard to keep up for a healing doc


ry

[xbmspec]

Yet they still shout, Doc's heals are over powered in PvP


You can't win in these fourms. You try to make a Doctor
profession look like one. They hammer it down like a nerfing bat
of no tomarrow.

Im sick of it. I just want Doctor's to be DOCTOR's not sub - par healers

[georg]

bump

[Kuro]

Letah and Tink are both right actually.

Letah is right that a trader that focuses on healing is too close in comparison to a doc. Tink is right that it's a lot of pain to focus on healing for the trader. Personally speaking, I flat out refuse to implant solely for healing (my implants boost various nanoskills, except Psymod and T&S).

With the min heal on doc nanos, they can easily be outclassed on healing. I wonder how well their nanos work when wrangled/buffed but that's an idle curiousity. Most players immediately jump to the next highest whatever they can use when they get a boost

Something else I think should be fixed (sorry to drag this in here but...): Doctors should be able to install implants in others based on their treatment skill (the requirements to have an implant installed should be based on the person's attributes. The requirements to install them should be based on the installer's treatment). That would definately end the credit problem if the only way to get high level implants in required a surgeon's touch (as it should be). And let me quit wasting points in treatment (My primary need it is for nano chargers, which have lower requirements than equal level labs)

AO isn't setup for this idea from what I can see, but doctors being able to improve the effects from healing items/nanos would also make sense. So a normal QL xxx first aid kit heals like a QL xxx+ (whatever is appropriate for level) while the buff is running.

[______________Coc^-^]

Id say increase the healing on doc heals and take away some of the recharge. Dont nerf our heals though..will make alot of people mad including myself.

[_________haniblecter]

Originally posted by Kuroshio

Something else I think should be fixed (sorry to drag this in here but...): Doctors should be able to install implants in others based on their treatment skill (the requirements to have an implant installed should be based on the person's attributes. The requirements to install them should be based on the installer's treatment). That would definately end the credit problem if the only way to get high level implants in required a surgeon's touch (as it should be). And let me quit wasting points in treatment (My primary need it is for nano chargers, which have lower requirements than equal level labs)

AO isn't setup for this idea from what I can see, but doctors being able to improve the effects from healing items/nanos would also make sense. So a normal QL xxx first aid kit heals like a QL xxx+ (whatever is appropriate for level) while the buff is running. [/B]

This was supposed to be implemented. Not sure what happened to it. Jsut look at the portable treatment centers, they scream for cross proffesion utilization.

[M@hdi]

Bump, to tired to add to the discussion

[Peep]

I do play a doc and a trader (both high level) although at the moment I play a crat.

The mistake here is trying to compare the docs second rate heal (team heal) with the traders top heal (also a team heal).

There are problems with the docs main healing nanos (single heals). One is the LOS restriction on it means in missions most of the time half the team is out of range even if they are only on the side of a table. The other is the bugged health bars you just don't know who is been hit unless you can speed read the battle spam.

A doc that only casts team heals is like an engi that will not use their pet sure they can shoot but are not playing to their potenial.


Funcom fix the TOS on single heals so they are affective once again. And fix the bugged health bars that should have been fixed long ago.

[M@hdi]

Originally posted by Tink
I do play a doc and a trader (both high level) although at the moment I play a crat.

The mistake here is trying to compare the docs second rate heal (team heal) with the traders top heal (also a team heal).

There are problems with the docs main healing nanos (single heals). One is the LOS restriction on it means in missions most of the time half the team is out of range even if they are only on the side of a table. The other is the bugged health bars you just don't know who is been hit unless you can speed read the battle spam.

A doc that only casts team heals is like an engi that will not use their pet sure they can shoot but are not playing to their potenial.


Funcom fix the TOS on single heals so they are affective once again. And fix the bugged health bars that should have been fixed long ago.

That would only fix part of the problem, and the averagees on our single heals isn't that good as well (with the exception of greater bloom of health). The unreliable, unpredictable aggro these days, makes that the recharge on these heals (4.3 sec on GBOH) can cost the life of many a teamy.

The point is simple and clear. Docs are the healing class of Rubi-Ka. Of course there is room for more sub-healing classes as the MA's and traders are. But the docs should without a doubt be THE healers on rubi-ka with at same level the highest averages, the highest minimum heal and the highest maximum heal. We are supposed to be the healers, let us be just that.

The arguement about that making docs even more powerful in pvp is valid, but that's to blaim on FC for releasing an unbalanced game and unbalancing it more every patch. I shouldn't outdamage a soldier (being a doc, and I easily outdamage a soldier), but noone should out-heal me and team experience taught me that traders DO out-heal docs, and quite easy.

greetingZz

-mah

[M@hdi]

Furthermore (lol)

If doc heals were severely upgraded and nano resist was fixed to a point where it would actually be useful. I think heals could be made 50% in pvp without unbalancing the pvp aspect of the game. In fact, I think it would be balanced better if this were the case, both in pvp as in pvm.

[Inocybe]

Originally posted by Mahdi
The point is simple and clear. Docs are the healing class of Rubi-Ka. Of course there is room for more sub-healing classes as the MA's and traders are.
-mah

Sigh, yet another one who forgets to mention Adventurers.

[gnuman]

Originally posted by haniblecter
Eat me,

Ill post my trader hate where it will be appreciated!

IN THE TRADER FORUM MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHA

okay, its now 100% certain. haniblecter = Siraakin = Nanostealth

This kind of stupidity doesn't exist on 3 different individuals.