Traders are BETTER at healing the DOCS! Fix! Bump

[_______________Xikon]

Funcom please do not do this. It is impossible for me to solo well with my trader without using heals. In was just starting to like my profession too now you guys come and nerf us. I guess now I'll have to go back to my Soldier because NO ONE in their right mind would play this class now.

Just fix the DoT's half dmg and make it do full damage. No reason to nerf our heals because of a bug that you guys introduced. Everyone knows that a DOC is more wanted in a team than a Trader is.

You guys were just starting to redeem yourselves from nerfing and screwing up alot of our classes and now you go and do this. *sigh*...I am slowing losing patience with you Funcom. You guys are slowly turning into the Turbine company whom I hate.


EDIT: Not to mention it sounds like you guys are being a little too lazy. Why put heals in the game in the first place if your just going to nerf them to no use? NO ONE will use Trader heals anymore if you do this. Their is no reason to. They will be unable to save someones life. Isn't that the whole purpose of heals? To save lives but now you nerf it.

[Aristaeus]

Copied this from the doc board

Originally posted by Alberon
Great yet another line of nano's that can be dumped on the scrapheap of uselessnes next to the enfraam line & epsilon purge.

Don't know what they are thinking at FC but one thing is clear they are not listening to what the players are suggesting.

Only one person playing a doc out of everyone active on this forum want the working version of EP.
[speculation]
But no, since only a few people at FC actually have a char above 100 on the servers they need to clone test server players above that level & the easiest and fastest way to test stuff is PvP against another developer. PvP at which doctors seem to be not the best around. So instead of actually FIXING the nano they make one that gives them a chance in the PvP. I might add PvP the way FC thinks PvP should be. People will adapt to the new version of EP the second 14.2 gets active and reduces it effectivity to roughly 0%
[/speculation]

Then we docs ask for a minor upgrade so that we can compete with traders. Yes, a MINOR upgrade, if you up the Consumate Carer (ql 106) lower limit by 50% you heal a whooping 140 or so points more at min heal and the average by 70 points. That makes it 27 points more efficient then Major Delayed Health Payment.
But seeing the damage critters dish out when I team an extra 70 hitpoints at this level means you need to do 4 or 5 team heals before those extra hitpoints translate into surviving an extra blow.

So by actually upping the lower limit on doc team heals you make docs happy, don't annoy traders and cause only a limited impact on the game play.


But this seems to be inline with what I've been reading on the NT board (the 10 answers to 10 questions thread). NTs don't get upgraded and most of the stuff that they now have is as envisioned by FC. That can only mean that all other classes need to be brought to the same level. This can only be done by major nerfing to certain proffesions.

[xbmspec]

quote:
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Originally posted by [CrispyChicken]
Make the DoT's stack.. ?
And Full Dmg?

Your idea kinda destroyes them healing all together -_-
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Originally posted by Cosmik
Is this in reply to my post?

Yes.

Your making the doctors look like we've wanted to nerf the traders from the beginning

I still say make the DoT's stack and full damage.
Not this. This is like your fix to Epislon Purge.

Ughh... don't remind me. You should of left the nano broken over this... so called "fix"

[__________Drunkfisht]

Why are we not focusing on the problem here? DOC HEALS NEED TO BE BETTER!

Why not improve doc heals? That would be the most logical step instead of nerfing a class whos heals almost solely contribute to its viability in solo play.

Hell, why not just take our health to 1, put us in the middle of Tir/Omni-1, and have ARK's throw tomatoes at us while we cry uncontrollably?

[_________________bob]

These are some things some of you may not be aware of. Do not read this as meaning I do or do not support any particular proposed changed.

• There are continual calls to just 'fix' doc heals and not 'nerf' Trader ones. If the Trader profession didn't exist probably no one would think Doc heals (apart from a few tweaks) need fixing. For those of you that have never designed a game system, balancing it without using a reduction of capabilities (aka 'nerf') is like juggling with one hand tied behind your back. As has been touched on, heals are already pretty good in this games so if anything all that perhaps needs to addressed is the balance of healing between professions. If this means reducing a Trader's healing output, so be it. Really the only problem (in general) with nerfs are that they are less psychologically appealing than boosts. Doesn't mean they aren't the best solution to a given problem.
  
• Many of you are frothing at the mouth without having got the full details of the change. Depending upon how the DoT duration is shortened it could be effectively similar to an increased recharge time - an acceptable solution to some of you.
  
• As has been touched on earlier, why should Doc's have the 'best' healing for every nano line? In the real world there are many different types of healers, and the western 'orthodox' 'medical' medicine is not best at healing every ailment. Most of you are ignoring the fact that docs have other capabilities other than the team heals. There is no necessary reason why Doc's TH's should be the best at all times and in all situations.
  
• For those of you that have never written software on a large scale, consider this. (Relatively) Bug free software is incredibly difficult and expensive to write, even when you know exactly what you want it to do before you start. Implementing certain changes (ie fixing some bugs) can be incredibly difficult and expensive as, even though the problem is simple on paper, it may require a large rework of the program code to fix. How many of you would be happy if Funcom stated they would fix a problem a certain way, but it woiuld take a year to do?
  
• Time. Looking at these forums there are literally hundreds of issues to be addressed. I doubt FC has the resources to give each and every one a huge amount of attention.
  
• If anything has reduced my enjoyment of this game, it is reading these forums about problems and not the problems themselves. Take the Health Bar. Hitting f1-f6 quickly in succession resets them. This can be done while I am casting/recharging from a heal. It is really only a minor irritant to me. Line of Sight? I just move around a little. I still primarily use single heals even in the tricky areas. Table in the way? I just jump on top of it or whatever. These problems are annoying, but shouldn't generate the level of hate filled response that they do.
  
• For those of you that have such a low opinion of FC's abilities and spend lot's of time hating them, consider: If you don't like the service they offer don't play the game. You know what they offer and you can choose whether to accept it/pay for it or not. But I hear you say AO is the best MMORPG out there! You said it. How about giving FC some positive feedback once in a while?
  Also consider that FC, a company is staffed by people. Give them some benefit of the doubt. They (I would hope) have a much wider picture of the overall game than you do. As much as the posts give an idea of the level of rejection of a proposed change, it must be awful to read some of the comments made. Think about if you had to deal with that in your own job/life.

[__________Terranigma]

I think it's not reallly a bad nerf , see why should traders be able to solo so well when doctors have so much trouble to solo even if they reduce you're heals you've still got that ql200 shotgun.

plus doing that will make trader more into a secondary healer which is what the doctors wanted in the first place? The heals in this game are already boosted before it won't reboosted again.

The main reason I want the nerf is because if we asked funcom to fix the freaking bug then it'll cost them another year and cosmik mentions that the bugs will not be fixed in 14.2 meaning it'll probaly be another 3 months before you see the nerf anyways

why are traders so angry because the're heals are reduced you're heals sohuld't have been that powerfull in the first place now let's look at the poorer adventurers and fixers and look at their solo capabilities.

[BGumble]

Originally posted by Terranigma
I think it's not reallly a bad nerf , see why should traders be able to solo so well when doctors have so much trouble to solo even if they reduce you're heals you've still got that ql200 shotgun.

Since when were traders able to solo so well? they certainly dont solo as well as any of the pet classes or as well as my enforcer.

plus doing that will make trader more into a secondary healer which is what the doctors wanted in the first place? The heals in this game are already boosted before it won't reboosted again.

Clue: They already are secondary healers. Better than Advents or MAs but worse than doctors - except maybe at very high levels when healing is barely an issue.

The main reason I want the nerf is because if we asked funcom to fix the freaking bug then it'll cost them another year and cosmik mentions that the bugs will not be fixed in 14.2 meaning it'll probaly be another 3 months before you see the nerf anyways

So rather than address your problem you believe that making another class worse will somehow improve you? Odd reasoning.

why are traders so angry because the're heals are reduced you're heals sohuld't have been that powerfull in the first place now let's look at the poorer adventurers and fixers and look at their solo capabilities.

Hello? you must be aware of some exploit or secondary effect that has caused Trader heals to be changed. For your information the heals operate exactly as originally designed with the exception that the DoT component is now half its original level - which doesnt affect healing output at all, merely makes the heals less dangerous to use. Why shouldn't our heals be as powerful as they are? they are obviously at the level Funcom originally thought was correct. What has changed?

[________________Gold]

someone said they actually enjoyed playing their trader...I think that is the REAL reason why FUncom is gonna nerf the hell out of us....not the whining.

After 5 straight patches filled with almost nothing but agent nerfs, I switched to a trader...guess I should put my trader on ice and play my agent instead now.

I've never seen a company like funcom b4...actually trying to keep their players from enjoying the game, lol. Very weird...

[____________Asteroth]

I still remember the days

When my Doc's UBER team heal downs many Yalmahas.

When my Doc's UBER team heal can be casted from different vicinity on the team.

I wonder if this is wat those "new" docs are secretly pushing for.

[Kuro]

Originally posted by Terranigma
I think it's not reallly a bad nerf , see why should traders be able to solo so well when doctors have so much trouble to solo even if they reduce you're heals you've still got that ql200 shotgun.

plus doing that will make trader more into a secondary healer which is what the doctors wanted in the first place? The heals in this game are already boosted before it won't reboosted again.

The main reason I want the nerf is because if we asked funcom to fix the freaking bug then it'll cost them another year and cosmik mentions that the bugs will not be fixed in 14.2 meaning it'll probaly be another 3 months before you see the nerf anyways

why are traders so angry because the're heals are reduced you're heals sohuld't have been that powerfull in the first place now let's look at the poorer adventurers and fixers and look at their solo capabilities.

Team Heal can be used in solo situations prolly because of a bug (it's a team nano that doesn't check if you're in a team). Anyone that has not learned the lesson of depending on bugged mechanics is a fool (Fixer GA having no wear requirements getting fixed, Implant Stacking getting fixed, ect). So nerfing the Team Healing ability will have no affect on the trader solo capability.

Let's look at the "poorer adventurers and fixers" then. Adventurers: have an announced and scheduled patch scheduled to help balance their profession. Fixers: have an announced and scheduled patch to help balance their profession. In fact, I'm fairly certain I've heard of FC devoting a patch to every profession specifically and giving the order in which they'll arrival, except the Traders. With a busted charm line that serves better as a self-root, impossibility to maintain continuous team wrangles because ransack/deprive will always wear off before the wrangles do, tradeskill buffs that serve more purpose for twinking and min/maxing than they provide any tangible gain due to busted tradeskills, skill drains that have 0 effect on mobs, AC drains that do the same, nanodrains that are next to useless and don't effect PvM (has anyone ever seen a mob run out of nano?) and suffering from the calls for nerfs on the profession because the profession has so many half broken skills they almost create a full profession.

[_____________Calenth]

Originally posted by Kuroshio

Let's look at the "poorer adventurers and fixers" then. Adventurers: have an announced and scheduled patch scheduled to help balance their profession. Fixers: have an announced and scheduled patch to help balance their profession. In fact, I'm fairly certain I've heard of FC devoting a patch to every profession specifically and giving the order in which they'll arrival, except the Traders.

. . .

the profession has so many half broken skills they almost create a full profession.

This is so damned true it hurts. I just reactivated my acct after quitting about one month after release. Most of the same bugs and imbalances and broken nanos that were around then -- and that everyone agreed had the traders set for an eventual *fixing* -- are still present in game right now. The only ones that have been fixed are the ones that affected oher classes too, like the mesmerize fix.

[_________________bob]

Since Cosmik did not say when the change would take place or exact details of what it entailed, perhaps it will be left until a patch that deals specifically with Traders?

That way every one will be happy.

[Mercatura]

Let me hand you a f*cking clue:

This change will mean that Traders have to wait for the DOT to run its full duration (from execution to finish) before another team heal can be executed.

The dot lasts over a minute.

Its like they think a trader team heal is TMS or Challenger. Hell, they already shortened the hell out of the MA quick damage buff. Watch them do the same to challenger someday. Thats right nerf-mongers, a 1k trader heals is just as powerful as TMS

If you're paying any attention at all, the dot at full damage eats up all of the heal. Whatever teams you're playing on, in my teams you have to spam them like mad to stay alive as it is.

I would take the absolute "worst" combination of Advent and MA heal amounts/timers/nano costs over this funcompetent idea. Not that we should have to. Thank you pvp whiners.

[Sheffy]

Originally posted by Calenth
If the docs had sincerly wanted their own profession improved, there would be a 300 post thread asking for the health-bar display bug to be fixed.

There isn't.

Instead, there's a 300 post thread whining about doctor/trader comparisons. Which shows pretty precisely what most doctors wanted.

Oh my god, are you kidding?

I (and probably most every Doctor on Rubi-Ka) has petitioned multiple times and sent bug reports about health bars being bugged.

This is not "precisely what most doctors wanted." You know that is a false statement. The change Funcom is making has not been proposed by *ANYONE* in this entire thread. In fact, I can assure you at least 95% of the Doctor community find this "fix" to be unacceptable with the current duration of the Trader DoT which comes with the Team Heals.

To me, having the DoTs stack makes sense. I think all Traders (even Noer, who so eloquently blames Letah for all of this) agree with that. I also think that Doctor heal ranges need to be lessened and the minimums raised. I think 90% of the Trader community agrees.

People need to stop saying "Look at the title of this thread! It was begging for a Trader heal nerf!" The title has nothing to do with asking for a Nerf -- It was merely a comparison of Doc/Trader team heals to show the differences, so people had something to COMPARE to so they realize why Doctors were complaining that they weren't the best team healers. This is indisputable. Traders are pissed off and blaming Docs for this when multiple times in this thread, Doctors have stated they do NOT want Traders nerfed, but Doc team heals bumped up a little bit.

That would have made everything better, and both sides happy. Instead, we've upset both communities, and the Docs get blamed. You Traders should know better. If Letah is to blame for anything, it's for bringing it to the dev's attention that Doc heals were inferior, not for this nerf.

I am very curious as to how Funcom is going to modify the DoT duration. This may not be as bad as it sounds if the duration is significantly lowered. Let's wait and see. (I haven't read the whole thread yet, so I don't know if Cosmik has responded about the DoT duration getting lowered and what to yet)

And by the way, I have a Doc and a Trader.

Regards,

--Tsk

[_______________Vydas]

Well, Tsk, it was maybe just couched very unfortunately, then (although I sense some pretty gleeful people who claim their doc heals were fine, and clearly couldn't be improved). If you look at the first post, you'll find it's reasonably lengthy, with one sentence devoted to improving doctor's heals. Maybe that portion of it wasn't stressed quite enough? It's not even the closing note, it comes off almost as an aside.

So, regardless of intent, the tone is definitely slanted towards nerfing, not improving.

But, the damage is long done. Very sad indeed, for all involved, as both professions are upset, as you've noted, and justifiably so.

[Sheffy]

*lol*

Directly from Letahs' first, thread-opening post:

Q: Dont ask for a nerf fs!
A: I dont, i dont want to nerf anyone, but we suck compared to you and its our job. Give us better min. heals and better single heals! Less recharge time!

Anyway, this has been beaten to death. I just pray Cosmik reads all the negative feedback on this change and proposes other fixes to the dev team.

We love you, Cosmik, we really do. And we know you're just the messenger. But please, send the dev team our feedback and proposed alternatives or we'll have to shoot you! (bad joke)

With hope...

--Tsk

[_____________Calenth]

Originally posted by Tsk
*lol*

We love you, Cosmik, we really do. And we know you're just the messenger. But please, send the dev team our feedback and proposed alternatives or we'll have to shoot you! (bad joke)

With hope...

--Tsk

This was the first thing that made me laugh in this whole debate.

[Muetdhiver]

"I think it's not reallly a bad nerf , see why should traders be able to solo so well when doctors have so much trouble to solo"

Because a class as trouble soloing you would make another class unable to solo, thus less fun to play ? Are you jealous ? What's the problem with traders having fun with their chars ?

[Julka_Pomy]

Originally posted by Cosmik
Just want to say that I've been keeping up to speed on this thread, and to also bring some news about Trader heals.

Currently when executing a team heal the Trader is hit with a DOT (hit with an amount of damage over time). This amount isn't all that much, and Traders can keep executing the team heals without their health getting dangerously low.

A change is going to be made to the Trader team heals. This change will mean that Traders have to wait for the DOT to run its full duration (from execution to finish) before another team heal can be executed. So, over time, a Doctor will heal for more (as should be the case). This change is scheduled for an upcoming patch soon (no, not 14.2).

Feedback? I know you've got it.

Dear Cosmic you might not read this but anyway.

I suggest that you just make DoT do full damge and not alowing trader to recharge druring active DoT.

Solution Number 2.

Trader cant't heal themselfs with team heals and get dot that does full damge runing in NCU.

[Julka_Pomy]

To all of you and especialy traders i want to bring my apology for all those Doctors who were bumping this tread. Personaly i had no problems with trader being better healer then me. No doctrs were better healers anyway. lower nano cost, better nano pool.

Lets take a look on suggestions you made.

Make dot do full damge and stuck. I dont think it will have differnt affect then upcoming changes i dont think traders will want to have 5-6 dots that do 200 damge every 3 seconds runing on them. That will kill trader.

Better trader does one heal for 1.1k every 10 seconds then dead trader.

Making DoT just do full damge will not change anything. They still can outheal it and mostly trader not healing them but healing others.

Trader doesnt heal himself with team heal nano it will be inposible to make from prospective of programers. Maybe its possible.

Well funcom kills 3 birds with one stone by nerfing traders.

Boosting Doctors as team healers.
Puting Adventurers on second ladder as team healer.

And pleasing all those pvper whiners who were flooding pvp forum with "Nerf the trader" threads.

Well if you guys look at all nerfs made to proffesions. They all come from PvP forums. Crit buff thanks to them, Soldiers nerfed also thanks to pvpers, Traders i already said that, Next will be doctor because only traders could actualy kill doctor now no one will others have chance but its to low.

To letah you asked for improvemnt yes it will be easier but again it will make doctor even more stornger. Now i die only when i heal insted for 1.2k of HP but for 600 of HP. If i can heal for 1-1.2k evey 4 seconds i doubt any profession and even trader can't kill me.

Well my suggestion to all of you guys who dont PvP you should gether together and beat butts of all those who pvp and complain how somoene is uber.