NoneOriginally posted by Thyrra
yup. traders have ac buffs. how many traders use these uber buffs?
by the time they become uber you're plowing through mobs so fast that there is no point in having the extra AC.
NoneOriginally posted by Thyrra
yup. traders have ac buffs. how many traders use these uber buffs?
by the time they become uber you're plowing through mobs so fast that there is no point in having the extra AC.
Undercover Soccom Brother
Blackness confirmed!!
Welcome to the Brotherhood.
Buying ql 161 Art of Peace nano
Please stay on topic, this isn't trader are gods thread no #100000 this is about docs for cyring out loud. Though this is about traders being better at teamheals, im not asking for nerfs, if you look at us docs here we did not ask that so leave us alone and go back to trader forum. This is for us, the doc's that have the least post in their class-forum already, the ones people don't talk about with the loving patches.
Bump..
Letah I have both a high level Doc and Trader and am afraid you are mistaken docs are far better healers.
Originally posted by Letah
I've checked our best 5 teamheals... its sad really:
Trader QL182-140 Teamheals:
time and space 862 biological meta 777 heals: 920 - 1144
time and space 795 biological meta 723 heals: 856 - 1000
time and space 740 biological meta 668 heals: 780 - 878
time and space 702 biological meta 630 heals: 700 - 800
time and space 663 biological meta 594 heals: 636 - 740
Doctor QL182-140 Teamheals:
biological meta 856 matter meta 772 heals: 485 - 970
biological meta 821 matter meta 745 heals: 475 - 935
biological meta 760 matter meta 689 heals: 449 - 872
biological meta 704 matter meta 632 heals: 423 - 802
biological meta 669 matter meta 599 heals: 402 - 754
Ok first thing to note here is that a Doc's BM&MM skills are green where as they BM&TS are dark & light blue for the trader. So you cannot compare QL the same. A doc can cast a Q140 heal a lot sooner unbuffed than a trader can.
Originally posted by Letah
Implant a Trader for T&S and BM (they dont conflict even so thats a stunning +210 T&S and +173 BM for QL200 Implants!) and you get this. We even have a conflicting BM/MM!
This is true but Traders would much prefer to have Q200 PM&SI implants than TS&BM
Originally posted by Letah
To catch some comments from the doc thread about this:
Q: We traders need to deprive for it
A: We docs need MP buffs for it, so you can do it too. You can implant it like we do.
Q: We don't have time to shoot, doc is specialized!
A: We shoot too after 130, you can make a Trader doc.
Q: You have good single heals!
A: Your teamheals are BETTER then our single and teamheals.
Q: You got Complete Heal!
A: Indeed, but what about docs lower then lvl 150? Sheesh.
Q: Dont ask for a nerf fs!
A: I dont, i dont want to nerf anyone, but we suck compared to you and its our job. Give us better min. heals and better single heals! Less recharge time!
Oh yeah, forgot, trader heals are faster.. both recharge and cast...
A big fat <<BUMP>>
Ok my Trader is L137 to use the 1k team heal I must cast 2 x deprives and 2 x plunders to get my nano skills high enough this means at a very minimum the team has to kill 4 mobs before I can heal (providing there are no counters or fumbles). After I cast a deprive or plunder I cannot cast a heal for 8 seconds.
The deprives and plunders last for 3 minutes to maintain my buffed skill level I normaly cast a deprive on one mob and then a plunder on the next so each for mob i fight that is 8 seconds I cannot heal.
Between levels 120-150 Traders might seem like better healers (whist buffed) remember that the 1k heal is the best we can ever get this is not so for a doc. Unbuffed which is what I would be when facing the 3 mobs in the first room my best heal atm is 300.
Traders can cast faster? I suggest you put your att-deff slider to full attack get a recompiler and put points to nano init you will find you can cast fast too.
Sorry, but this is not true.out-earn - Traders earn loads fom wrangles , docs? all they got is dat 80 treatment buff that they use much later. Most docs run to hunt while traders fly to their hunts ( if both are first characters )
You can always earn more money from running missions for battlesuits. With HoTs, hp-buffs and such docs are actually better at this if you max runspeed. But everyone not lazy can do it. Wrangles giving better money than +80? I dooon't thiiink soooo. No trader can stand at grid dishing out +132 wrangles left and right like a doc can with +80 treatment for 200k creds each cast. Wrangles have downtime, and you need to go somewhere to divest. I have never once announced wrangles in trade, I ran missions for battlesuits and never ever needed money.
Buffs? Tradeskill-buffs and a evade-buff, which is worse than the ones MA gets. Trust me, traders have no buffs for combat. They have drains, and they have wrangles (for pre-combat buffing).out-cast - they have faster recharge and more usefull nano's too like root , calm not to mention buffs
We don't have HP-buffs, temp hp-buffs, HoTs and we can't equip ql200 implants at lvl 150 as a doctor. Hell I can't even equip a full set of ql200 implants at lvl 200.
If you want root and mezz, ehrm - I am sorry but you should have checked the nano-list before starting a doc. We have some okay, roots and mezz. But again we are not the best. Crats has AE mezz. Traders is a good average class with a lot of options. Thats why we have a lot of fun playing it. That people has started a trend trying to destroy that makes me sad.
Last edited by LoneWolf; Apr 17th, 2002 at 10:11:18.
~Lone
Doc heals bump
Sad to hear that traders are better healers then Docs. I recently went Doc, coz I want to help out in teams and deal a bit of dmg when I get the time.
Currently I am lvl 55 and got ql70 implants and was thinking; "wow I am a pretty good doc".
Then I got in a team with a trader and noticed he was outhealing me!!!
Not FAIR !!!
Ok ok, we have some nice hp buffs that nicely stack with enforcer hp buffs, but a doc should heal, period.
IMO you chose a doc coz you want to help others. If you want to level fast and be uber you chose another class. If you then find out that you lack at your profession compared to a trader....
H*ll I might even start a trader doc. lol !!
After all AO is a roleplaying game. Well, somehow the roles got mixed a bit.
A big fat BUMP
Greetz,
Rubigirl, lvl 55 doc, rk1
Well bump
How about switching healing effects for trader and doctor..
Its simply INSANE that any other profession comes close or heals better than the doc.
The doc should be THE healer!!
And yes, i do think the trader is way to powerful.
.. and wtf is it about shotguns and duck-exp skill ??? it should be dodge-rng as every other ranged weapons.... duck-exp defence skill should only be checked if attacked by a throwing weapons, rocket launchers and explosions.
If they "fixed" it so that the shotgun would use the dodge-rng def. skill, traders wouldnt be so powerful, because almost noone put ip into duck-exp... and that would make grenade throwers and such unique =)
Bump.
Im totally agree with you Letah.
Even though Traders have to do deprives/divest/plunders to use the good team-heals at early level - Highest QL Trader team-heal nano should not heal more then the highest QL Doc team-heal nano. We are doctors - we give life. Traders are salesmen - not Doc's.
My idea of how to fix, simple: Improve the doc team-heals so they out-heal trader team-heals. This way there will be no 'nerf', just better profession-balance and (hopefully) no whining.
Ah, well..
Traders' Heals
Letah - A: I dont, i dont want to nerf anyone, but we suck compared to you and its our job. Give us better min. heals and better single heals! Less recharge time!
When was the last time FC made a patch to make a profession better? Only times when it happened are bugs =p.
The only way I see this is going is traders will have weaker team heals just to please you docs.
You think they going to give you a 1144-1266 team heal?
Traders are costly to train, IP, money, time, effort all are costly. You think they are better healers because they drained and fumbled and drained then was able to cast that "better" team heals for 3 minutes. And they 3 minutes sticked to your head like glue and became a fact. You didn't notice the ammount of aggro the tarder pulled did ya? Or the time he spent on casting the drains? Or the time and money he spent to look and buy those draining/healing nanos?
The QL and nano skills requirement are misleading. Sure they look the same. But you think traders have enuff IP to spend on all nano skills?? Not to mention the time and money to get all those damn 20+ diff kinds of nano program schools.
Traders have better team heals, True.
Are Traders better healers? False. Period.
Dont forget Traders are computers guru. This is Rubi-Ka, we negotiate trades through and with computers and nano-bot circuitry.Traders are salesmen - not Doc's.
Doctors are healers - not Traders. Why do you have so many green tradeskills? =p
Oh btw I would like to repeat what other fellow traders have said numerous times in this and other threads. Traders DOESNT make money from wrangling. If a trader offer to buff you +132 wrangle for 500k, he is doing you a favour. Sound arrogant? Make a trader and when you can cast +132 wrangle, go ahead and buff 10 people for cash, then come back and tell me if it was worth it. Pfft. >=P
Last edited by Plunderer; Apr 17th, 2002 at 11:43:12.
Traders are extremly overpowered in many ways, healing is only 1 way, so I started a trader myself, I just love to hit for 3k self buffed at lvl 57...(need to drain afew times for it tho:P)
Only problem I have now is that I already got my ql 180 Vektor Dragon on, a 6 slot belt, ql150 ncus, all nanos uploaded (including 132 wrangle) so what should I do now?
I won't PvP cuz trader twinks PvPing ruin to much for everyone else, so I guess I just lvl...
(I started the trader after they fixed/changed implants so no stepping or anything on him)
Why should traders even have heals?
I say remove the heals from us!
bump
don't forget about trader Evade buffs, and weapon damage buffs
Ouzzelle: It's an O damnit! not a Q!... and it's pronounced Weasel to you omnis.....
Clanners call me Ozzy
Duffer1: SOYLENT GREEN IS PEOPLE!!
Riddance Jr.: Is it dead?
Yes, totally unlike docs, who get all their nanos free and take no time to level up at all.Originally posted by Christopher
Traders are costly to train, IP, money, time, effort all are costly.
No, because their nanos heal better than all doc nanos but the very last one.You think they are better healers because they drained and fumbled and drained then was able to cast that "better" team heals for 3 minutes.
Actually, he was already aggro'd cause he critted the mob a few times. Then he had to team heal cause he was getting hit. Then he got tired of being hit and just mezzed the mob.
You didn't notice the ammount of aggro the tarder pulled did ya?
So, by your logic, all traders should be broke, unable to buy their many nanoprograms, and unable to cast them anyway cause they ran out of ip. Oddly enough, they aren't.Oh btw I would like to repeat what other fellow traders have said numerous times in this and other threads. Traders DOESNT make money from wrangling. If a trader offer to buff you +132 wrangle for 500k, he is doing you a favour. Sound arrogant? Make a trader and when you can cast +132 wrangle, go ahead and buff 10 people for cash, then come back and tell me if it was worth it. Pfft. >=P
Not asking for a trader nerf, but more ways to help the team than just replacing HP or increasing HP (though of course more heal nanos would be good too). More ways to hurt MOBS, remove DOTs, more variation in the gaming experience!
Edit: Misspellings
Billroth - Doctor RK1
Order of the Crimson Cross
500k a wrangle = doing someone a favour?
500k LOL!
Noer you're just being Lazy here... admit that you hate ppl asking you to buff them when you're doing something else ...
Gah ... perhaps the nano's are expensive .. but when you finally got one asking 500k per 132 wrnagle is 500k every 3 minutes if you got customers, and you get them enough for sure!
"Ow what about all the costly nano rechargers?"
Gah come on 20k for 50 charges of 1240 nano points (ql 125) in store ... yeah you definately use em all up for that one wrangle => 500k - 20k => 480 k profit? so you charge 480k for 3 minutes of your time?... Gah you're arrogant...
*Edit btw, forgot my main purpose for replying => BUMP!
Last edited by Abrikoosje; Apr 17th, 2002 at 12:29:55.
I think traders mostly hurt themselves for taking that much money for a buff.Originally posted by Paynie
500k LOL!
Noer you're just being Lazy here... admit that you hate ppl asking you to buff them when you're doing something else ...
Gah ... perhaps the nano's are expensive .. but when you finally got one asking 500k per 132 wrnagle is 500k every 3 minutes if you got customers, and you get them enough for sure!
"Ow what about all the costly nano rechargers?"
Gah come on 20k for 50 charges of 1240 nano points (ql 125) in store ... yeah you definately use em all up for that one wrangle => 500k - 20k => 480 k profit? so you charge 480k for 3 minutes of your time?... Gah you're arrogant...
*Edit btw, forgot my main purpose for replying => BUMP!
When a trader I don't know need help with implants I usually take 500k-1mill/implant, if someone else need help, I have no price at all usually, if they want to pay me, I maybe accept else I do it for free.
(I very often say that I don't do implants cuz it's boring tho)
-chime-
hello just chiming in
Actually only one change I can say would be kinda cool
I would like to see casting time on Alpha and omega at 8 seconds. I am going to be honest here. 8 deconds is not all its cracked up to be. Leave the 12 seconds recharge. I can live with that. but not being able to cast it in time to do anything is dumb.
1x Merlin Bracer(25 nano init)
Instincitve Control (nano init doc spell)(85 nano init)
1x durable journeyman boost(15 nano init)
1x proffesser jones vest highest quality (50 nano init)
offensive steamroller (soldier spell 133 nano init)
1x 200 ql recompiler(400 nano init)
if you have managed to get each of those items you can now insta cast complete heal in full defensive at 8 seconds! woot not to shabby! And if your a solitus well that 50 nano init from the nano only vest is subtracted =/. But give or take 50 nano init you should still be within 1 second which is cool.
with all that junk to get your 1400 nano init. I dont think asking for alpha and omega to have 8 second cast time to be to much
keep the 12 second recharge.. its more a all or nothing save type spell. It costs loads of nano(1800) and your locked out of battle.
at full hp the group should be able to stay alive with a (trader) or other back up team healer type for 12 seconds of doc down time. (which promotes healers working together) =P.
This is just an idea to make Alpha and omega more viable. I gave solutions as to not make it outrageously easy to use. It would still need many other circumanstances to be used effectively including some outside help.
My two cents
Cait.
...*slap*Originally posted by Azzazzimon
Why should traders even have heals?
I say remove the heals from us!
bump.
Originally posted by Azzazzimon
I think traders mostly hurt themselves for taking that much money for a buff.
When a trader I don't know need help with implants I usually take 500k-1mill/implant, if someone else need help, I have no price at all usually, if they want to pay me, I maybe accept else I do it for free.
(I very often say that I don't do implants cuz it's boring tho
If I could delete all the wrangles from my character I would be a very happy trader. /macro reply sorry I do not have any wrangle nanos installed.
Doing a 132 wrangle for 500k is not worth the drama much easier to make more money faster doing missions.
bump ...
Adventurers are in the same boat.
* Our heals are also Bio and MM based.
* The minimum on our heals is too low. The minimum-maximum range on our heals not up to par given the PvM changes over the year.
* Our team heals are few and too far apart. The minimum-maximum heal range is is not up to par given the PvM changes over the year.
But's here's the crunch ....
While I would continue to push for upgrades to Adventurer heals and other profession improvements, I certainly would not like to see the Doctors diminished in comparision.
At the end of the day, no profession should out-heal the Doctors, the specialised healer on Rubi-Ka.
Ino
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