Overequiping... realistic?

[TemplarRed]

Here we go again... one would almost believe that many of these people calling for nerfs are players who truely feel the opposite of what they say, & they're just trying to discredit the 'nerf over-equipping' arguement by sounding foolish.

Originally posted by Sicero
Well, I hate to say it but this as well as every game in existance is at least fragilly bound to reality

'Fragile' being the key word, here.
Extremely fragile, in the case of equipment & the use thereof. This game would suggest that a battered, rusty, second-hand, flea-bitten, pox-ridden, unwashed, & all-around-plain-yucky firearm (just one example) if easier to use than a brand new one in perfect condition?
Hobbes, I loved the example that you had cited, also, lol!
Reality? Umm, no.
Not that I have any problem with this system. I like it as it is. It makes a certain level of 'twinkage' difficult, but not impossible. This system was not put into place to make anythig more realistic, & that's fine.

Originally posted by Tomasin
Today I got a bunch of new implants, buffed MA up real high, and put on a new set of fists that were way above my QL. Now when I lose the buffs, the fists will stay equipped and I will be able to do much more damage..... /sigh Not everyone can benefit from being able to buff into a weapon and then still use it when your sklills drop back to normal. This is why OE is flawed. It puts certain classes at a greater advantage over others. MAs are supposed to do the most damage over time, but what good is that if in pvm you only hit for minimum damage, and in pvp you dont stand a chance against rooters and over equppied agents, soldiers and enforcers who can drop you in seconds.

Oh, come on now... MA's are perfectly capable of stretching their limits with the armor & implants use (just like everyone else). Besides, MA's rock, just as they are right now. A well-equipped MA is just as useful an addition to a team as any well-equipped Agent or whatever. And there have been quite a few MA's going about with PvP titles lately. Plus, you don't need to shell out millions of credits for ammo & weapon upgrades!
I won't deny that roots are the Achilles' heel of MA's. This is game design, not a 'flaw'. Different tactics work better against different professions; nano skill debuffs are more effective against NT's & Docs, but far less effective vs. pet users, for example.
I team with a number of MA's regularly, & they are absolutely killer. If your MA isn't up to par, I'd take a closer look at how you're building him, or how you're equipping him. And if you get rooted often, I'd advise increasing nano-resist.

Originally posted by Yme
3)
FC are the desiners of the game and they agree that Ov.Equ. is cheating....

They do, do they? They must be telling you something different than what they tell everyone else.
Granted, using an exploit or bug (as opposed to a buff) to equip gear is cheating... there's no disputing this. But I don't believe that's what you're referring to here.

Originally posted by Yme
4)
The way it is now casters that cant over Ov.Equ. are useless!

Wrong again. Since the base ability implant/clusters sometimes overlap with the nano-skill implant/clusters, many NT's (among other professions) have two sets of implants: One for equipping armor (the base ability set) & one for general use (the nano-skill set). Use the treatment machine, a med suit, & a Doc buff to outfit the strongest implants, & use essence, iron circle, feline grace, etc. to help with the armor.
Also... for whatever reason do NT's run about with those pillows?

Originally posted by Yme
5)
Did I hear someone say anything about NT do more damage? That would have been true if there werent Over.Equ. I pvpd a green character ones, he shot me 2 times and I was dead! My best nano that does allmost 600 dmg and 9 seconds to fier(there is allso a big chance of it not working at all) narely scratched him!
Thats what Im talking about when I say cheating, you cant say that that is fair!

I can say this is fair. There are NT's running about with PvP titles. Therefore, it is possible for an NT to excel at PvP. In fact, I see characters of every profession with PvP titles. Docs might be the rarest, but I still see them. If you want your character to excel at PvP, then you should try approaching someone of your profession who has a title, & see what they're doing that you're not doing.

Originally posted by Yme
8)
I say this again, you people dont seem to understand it anyway... Buffs have a time limit for a reason! THEY HAVE A TIME LIMIT!!!

Yes, you're right. The time limit is how long you have to equip that high-ql gear. Or whip up that super-pet.

As a Trader, I don't use wrangler buffs exclusively for weapon equipping. I've wrangled Engies so they can make bigger bots. I've wrangled MA's so they can run a muscle booster buff (or whatever variant), & then in turn, equip better armor. The list goes on & on.

My point? Weapon-users aren't the only people who continue to benefit from temporary buffs after they wear off. Additionally, every profession depends on their nano-programs, both in PvP & PvM. Every profession is a 'caster', to some extent. All is fair. Not perfectly balanced (perfect balance won't ever exist unless all the professions were exactly alike). Just fair. Or fair enough, at least.

-Templar Red

[Ygglens]

The over. Equ. im talking about is when people get 3 different buffs(for example) that raises the same skill and then putts on a rifle that they normolay couldnt use before 10 lvls higher... When I say that FC says that over Eequ. is cheating its because I have e-mailed them and talked about it, if you would like I could post the e-mail that I got ion response here
I personoly dont care about over equiping armour, everyone can do that so its more or less fair, but weapons, NT use nao formulas that check their skill everytime they are fierd! I dont meen to "crapp" on the people that Ov.Eq. Im only trying to make you understand why I think its unfair! One more thing, what ahs FC told everyone else about over eq.? Im verry curious about that....

Yme

[_____________Borrace]

show me one thread where it is stated by funcom that over equiping is a bug?

it's not a bug...it's intentional.

there was a discussion by funcom of making equipment suddenly not work or un-equip if you didn't fit into the requirement sometime after patch 12.6.

there was such backlash and threats of people leaving that funcom rightfully dropped that idiotic idea.

Yme...your 10 points are more like 2 points stated over and over again.

your two points are this.

1) buffs have time limits
2) casters can't over equip

--------

1) buffs have time limits...so what? the biggest buff, the trader's wrangler, has only a 2 min time limit...but what other purpose can it have but for over equiping weapons? that is the only viable purpose for the nano.

2) casters' cant over equip...bullcrap. lots of casting classes have nano-skill buffs that increase their nano-skill abilities. so they cast the buff prior to entering into battle...when it runs out, they recast it. also, they have the same abilities to make implants. Also, no one is stopping casters from equipping higher armor.

again...those who don't like or don't understand how this game works should go to the rubika dimension where everyone is the same...i like the option of using better equipment and trying to "out-do" the other guy.

[_____godthe bugs!!!!]

Should overequipping of weapons be allowed? of course, the buffs were put into the game to do just that. But if they were meant to permanently raise a skill then they wouldnt have a timelimit on them!. You should be able to overequip to your hearts content, as long as you have skills buffed up high enough to use it. I mean come one here, if it takes a certain amount of skill to use a weapon and then your skill level drops, you should at the very least start doing minimmum damage since you dont have the skill to weild the weapon anymore! Wanna do normal damage levels again? then get the buff back! otherwise use a lower QL weapon in the mean time. Is overequipping a bug/exploit? No. Is the ability to use the overequipped weapon after the skill buff runs out a bug(not exploit)? yes! It is not an exploit because funcom allows you to keep the weapon in hand and use it at the same level, but it is definetly a bug.

[_______________Mulch]

Originally posted by godthe bugs!!!!
Should overequipping of weapons be allowed? of course, the buffs were put into the game to do just that. But if they were meant to permanently raise a skill then they wouldnt have a timelimit on them!. You should be able to overequip to your hearts content, as long as you have skills buffed up high enough to use it. I mean come one here, if it takes a certain amount of skill to use a weapon and then your skill level drops, you should at the very least start doing minimmum damage since you dont have the skill to weild the weapon anymore! Wanna do normal damage levels again? then get the buff back! otherwise use a lower QL weapon in the mean time. Is overequipping a bug/exploit? No. Is the ability to use the overequipped weapon after the skill buff runs out a bug(not exploit)? yes! It is not an exploit because funcom allows you to keep the weapon in hand and use it at the same level, but it is definetly a bug.

I have to agree. Why else is there a time limit on the stat buffs? The idea that you are supposed to be able to equip a weapon 50 levels higher than you if you can just manage to get the stats high enough for even a second is just laughable. It would be an interesting idea if there were no time limits on the buffs; only for things like the Heals over Time; and obviously hostile "buffs" (ransacks, i.e.). That way, you could have your super uber mega gun equipped; but you would have to give up your reflect shield, your extra health, and your boosted run speed. Indeed, I think I would enjoy that game; there would be an element of strategy in your choices. NCU becomes your limiting factor; and there is also
a reason to cast some of those older, smaller nanos. Hurm. The more I think about it, the more I like this idea. If I ever make my own game...

As it is; you get yourself mega-buffed; over-equip; and are done. Buffs wear off; all you have to do is not accidentally un-equip. No thought has to be done at all.

Obviously, there is a very strong attraction to being the most powerful person in the game; to have *THE* best weapon equipped. Otherwise there wouldn't have been such an outcry against it when there was a proposal for making weapons and armor not work when the stats didn't support it. (*cough* Okay, that and the likelihood that it would have introduced an unimaginable world of bugs... *cough*) And indeed, the desire to be ultra-powerful compared to MoBs [especially at the lower levels] is so high that I seriously doubt that any proposal FC comes up with will be acceptable to the vast majority of players.

I forget the exact phrasing of the various tutoring devices, but their phrasing always gave me the impression that *implants* were supposed to be the things you could boost yourself to use, and get a permanent effect. Unfortunately, the AO interface allows weapons and armor to be used the exact same way. I believe this is an unintentional side effect; but only FunCom really knows for sure.


As to one of Borraces points:

"2) casters' cant over equip...bullcrap. lots of casting classes have nano-skill buffs that increase their nano-skill abilities. so they cast the buff prior to entering into battle...when it runs out, they recast it. also, they have the same abilities to make implants. Also, no one is stopping casters from equipping higher armor"

This recasting of which you speak, isn't this *EXACTLY* what those agains overequipping are saying is just fine? If you have the buffs to equip whatever gun or armor, or to cast a higher nano, fine. But when it wears off, *you have to recast it*. That is, once you can no longer use it, you can no longer use it. When you can use it, you can use it. Simple, fair, even.


My only real problem with overequipping is that if the game is balanced to deal with overequipping; those who do not overequip suddenly can't play, or at the very least, have a much harder time. There is also the PvP aspect, there is simply no contest between say, the doc who has an overequipped shotgun by 30-40 levels, and the poor little soldier who equips just the best he can using his own personal buffs. And honestly, that's just silly to me. And far far far worse when it's the other way around.


Fashal
OT Adventurer

[______________Nietya]

Jesus, people, think about this one.

I overequip.

I want them to change it.

I'd be ok if I was given a warning and told to get gear that I could wear of my own volition.

I'm ok with losing some fake money in a fake world (but keeping the gear that I worked and paid for) in order to make the world a more balanced place for ALL classes. MA's, NT's, everyone.

I'm a fixer, so I suck, even though I overequip. What I suggest would gimp me more, right? Wrong. If Funcom did something to address overequipping, I'm sure they'd tone down mob strengths as well.


This isn't about dedication. This isn't about choosing one playstyle over the other. This is about you people that paid a trader to wrangle the hell out of you, paid an enforcer for the str/sta buff or 2hb buff, paid the agent for feline grace, paid the fixer for... oh, that's right, MINOR SUPRESSOR (lol, sorry, had to fit that in)...

You would lose money. That money represents time you played this game to earn it. Is that right? No. But is it right to leave things the way they are? With EVERYONE but the mega-uber-freak overequippers unable to stand toe to toe with a green in PvM after level 60?

Choose the lesser of two evils. Funcom ought to.

Again, I reiterate, I overequip. As much as I can. I'm a level 51 fixer that can take mobs 2 to 3 levels higher than myself, thanks to my phat overequipping prowess. But I pray for the day when Funcom makes this unrealistic unbalancing unbalanceable crap stop.

-Nietya

[_____________stergir]

Yme and Xen hit the mark perfectly.

Basically, why in the hell should a temporary buff allow you to permanantly equip an implant that permanantly allows you to equip armor/weapons way above your lvl. Jeezus, why not leave the buff on PERMANANTLY while ur dreaming in ur unrealistic gaming thoughts. BTW, overquiping is NOT and exploit untill it's used to PERMANANTLY equip items.

Comon this can't be too hard to fix. When a buff runs out:

1. Decrease the skill/s accordingly.

2. Do and implant check and decrease the effectivness of implants that no longer meet minimum requirements

3. Decrease the skill/s accordingly again.

4. Do a armor/weapon check and decrease the effectivness of anything that no longer meet minimum requirements

PRESTO! The game becomes realistic again. I'm a programmer and I'm good at what I do. I can sit here and build code in my head on how I would do it if I was sitting in the FC offices. Comon FC this has gotta be the biggest problem of them all. Send the newb programmers out on their butts and get the good ones to fix this in a day or two.

Oh BTW, when the "event" fires to reload ur weapons I would do something stupid like this:

1. Display a FREAKING "Reloading message" as soon as u start.

2. Not allow flingshots and burst to be fired when reloading.

3. OH AND THE BEST ONE OF THEM ALL!!!! Display a reloaded message when ur done reloading instead of the dumb "Reloaded" message. LMAO, comon even a newb programmer can do that one.

[_______________Xente]

Originally posted by stergir


Basically, why in the hell should a temporary buff allow you to permanantly equip an implant that permanantly allows you to equip armor/weapons way above your lvl. Jeezus, why not leave the buff on PERMANANTLY while ur dreaming in ur unrealistic gaming thoughts. BTW, overquiping is NOT and exploit untill it's used to PERMANANTLY equip items.

So true - and another side effect is the homogenization of all professions. Does Sniper's Bliss give an agent any advantage over any profession? No, since I can get the "temporary" buff by shelling out a few K credits and permanently equip my gun.

Consider this - two agents are identical in every way, execpt only one has sniper's bliss. They both buy the same rifle that has slightly higher requirements than they have. The agent with sniper's bliss buffs both of them, and they spilt up to hunt. Suddenly, in the middle of battle, the buffs run out! Well, in the lame system we currently have, who cares... The agents dish out the same damage. What *should* happen is that the agent who actually bought the buff will self-use it, and keep self-using it. The agent that didn't buy the buff should suffer. In this way, Agents can use their buff as an advantage for themselves and their teammates.

--Xente

[Ygglens]

I personaly dont consider it over equiping when you rebuff your skill.... Over equiping is when you use something you dont have the skill to use! Let me tell you why casters cant Ov. Equ. there arnt any buffs that increases the skills neede for nano armour and strength and stamina are dark blue if your a homonano, you would have to waiste a LOT of IP to over equip as a caster homonano(which they realy cant afford sins the nanobreed realy lacks health and speed, they are both dark blue skills)...
I use nao formulas that I need to buff upp to use and that is not over equiping because when I buff upp I do have the skill to use it! If the buffs were ment to work beond the timelimit they would do that for all profs! Read the news on the official site and you will see that FC considers Ove. Equi. a bug or exploit or whatever...

Yme

[________________Zaal]

Templar Red, you're on crack.

NT's with PvP titles get their titles the hard way - by being sneaky and not fighting fair. Some may have even zonecampsed for them - who can say really? We can't win in a "fair" challenge type fight. We have to sneak attack and HOPE our first cast hits for as hard as it can. at lvl 62 i can cast a nuke that MIGHT hit for 1200 but more often than not hits for 700-800. THAT takes 9.5 seconds to throw. And ask me how often it freaking fumbles.

Now, I don't PvP cause of the overequippers. And I don't want to PvP until it gets more balanced in terms of PvP. My PvM game is slowly going down now... once I hit lvl 50 I had to start reducing the overall toughness of the missions (now at 40%) in order to insure my survival. At 50% i would get taken down by one yellow easily or two greens. Even two greys woudl make me zone out of a mission area once or twice. Two greys. As an NT I should be able to cook them just by glaring at them. PvM is OFF because of overequippers and what they do in PvP.

I'm hobbling along the best I can but if they don't fix the overequipping problem no but PvPers will be left and they might as well remove all wildlife from Rubi-Ka and rename the game Quake Rubika Online.

[Ygglens]

Trie playing a NT to lvl 100 before you talk about how mutch damage they do and stuff! Anyone that is for over equiping hasnt played a NT to a higher lvl so just shutt upp!

Yme