For those interested in an IP-wipe:

[_______zeroframerate]

Originally posted by Megabio
*giggles* *chuckles* *giggles*

I'm glad someone's having a good laugh at his thread too.
I'm having a ball, mostly out of sheer disbelief people are still posting responses! Hehehe!

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by zeroframerate


Au contraire, that only works IF the color of Intelligence (and I believe Computer Literacy has more than one dependancy) is the same as Computer Literacy. It will not work out equally if they are of differing colors.

And besides, the IP-Wipe won't benefit low level characters whatsoever (as I have maintained since the beginngin), so this side discussion is moot honestly.

Nope.

From level 2, with green Computer Literacy you can pump it 10 points total. That costs the same IP to do no matter what your intelligence "base" is. So if you max CL, 10 points is 10 points is 10 points.

Like I said, it only effects the non-max skills.

[Isisnorfret]

Zero, you've attempted to counter the arguments that your ip-theory is wrong, I'm not even going to touch that one. But you haven't even acknowledged that the only effect it would have is to give ip to ppl who can't use it. Therefore - it isn't unbalancing. Anyway, even if it DID give more of an "advantage" to higher lvl players, if it were a permanent fixture then people could play to a higher lvl and use the machine again and whoop-dee-do, no more unbalance.

I would love to see the permanent ip-wipe machine, maybe make it so you can use it per 100 hours of game time. It would be a great way to try out different weapons and different styles of play.

[________________Crin]

Reclaiming IP points is a privilege. It should not be something that is easily done, but is available to those players that want to have all their IP points done exactly right or maybe allow a player to try an unconventional set of skills, but back out of it if it doesn’t work. Power players could experiment without having to reroll and the game would be better for it. As it stands now players are afraid to waste IP, so they all go the conventional route. It takes a brave(crazy) Fixer not to use a Mausser.

I would suggest that in order to reallocate IP points you must do two things.

*Da Quest
Perform some quest. Doesn’t really matter what it is, but the reward for completing it would be the procedure to reallocate IP points.

*Da Operation
To regain IP points the player is reduced in level removing IP points in the areas that the wish to reallocate. Then when they level back up they can put the points back anywhere they wish. The procedure would go like this:

[list=1][*]All equipment must be removed. That means everything including implants, belts, rings, armor, weapons… (Well like I said everything. After all it's an operation) . As for maps, you just lose them. Consider it part of the cost. They are not that expensive anyway. However Nanos can stay on. I'd be too much trouble to program them to automatically turn back to crystals and they are too expensive to lose.

(I’m half thinking of just losing the nanos too. The player would have to prepare to have enough money on hand to buy them back. It shouldn’t be easy to have perfect IP allocation)
[*]The player picks the number of levels they wish to lose. For the levels lost, the player can remove IP points from any skill. The total IP points removed per level lost would equal the number of points gained when that level was obtained. For example, if you chose to reduce in level from 55 to 53, you would then remove 30,000 IP points. (55-53) * 15,000.
[*]When de-leveling the player must continue to obey level skill caps and remove points from those skills that would violate their new lower level.
[*]Now the player simply levels back up.[/list=1]

There ya go. It’s fair and it works. It’s like a mini reroll. The players earn every point they get but don’t have to start back as a newbie. All level caps are enforced and item have to be re-equipped, so there isn’t an exploit. It’s not for everyone, but for those who want to fine-tune their character, it’s an option.

[________________Heya]

Jeez, just give us the reloc allready.
Whats the big problem, it is obvious that this will benefit more ppl then it will hurt.
The only ones opposing a reloc is the twinks who had the time to reroll several times to get themselves an Uber template. But i guess they to will come around after the next Nerf.

Vandame
Lvl 104 MA
etc
etc
etc

[_______________Nivil]

Actually, I thought he was just laughing at you.

Unless you're a complete idiot, or you do it on purpose, you will have enough ip to fight. At this moment, fighting is the only purpose worth investing ips in. As has been stated by many people, once your maxes start being reached, you will start gaining extra ip. If you get off on making a ql 1 novaflow, you may now go play with those non combat skills. IP reallocation is just stupid. It MIGHT help out the complete idiots out there, but who cares about them.

So stop crying that you wasted nthousand ips in concealment. Roleplay yourself becoming a cripple who's left leg was nearly cut in half from an energy beam from a raving cyborg who sought revenge for the horrible sexual atrocities you are known to do to reets. Or whatever to make you people who feel shafted on the ip front feel a little better. Go level. Or stop playing AO and go play solitaire.

Bottom line: Stop crying little little kiddies. (Doh, the majority of you probably are.)

[nipsnaps]

Originally posted by Nivil
Actually, I thought he was just laughing at you.

Unless you're a complete idiot, or you do it on purpose, you will have enough ip to fight. At this moment, fighting is the only purpose worth investing ips in. As has been stated by many people, once your maxes start being reached, you will start gaining extra ip. If you get off on making a ql 1 novaflow, you may now go play with those non combat skills. IP reallocation is just stupid. It MIGHT help out the complete idiots out there, but who cares about them.

So stop crying that you wasted nthousand ips in concealment. Roleplay yourself becoming a cripple who's left leg was nearly cut in half from an energy beam from a raving cyborg who sought revenge for the horrible sexual atrocities you are known to do to reets. Or whatever to make you people who feel shafted on the ip front feel a little better. Go level. Or stop playing AO and go play solitaire.

Bottom line: Stop crying little little kiddies. (Doh, the majority of you probably are.)

Mmm, I'll remind myself that I'm a crying little kiddie next time I am patching together someone's broken finger... The mental age chart goes sort of like: kids who are kids, kids who act arrogantly thinking they are not kids, adults that act childishly thinking they are not kids (this is the category where people who assume other people in anonymous forums are kids usually go into), kids that act courteously towards others knowing they still are kids but themselves act more maturely than the previous category, and finally comes adults who ignore other people's age and act like an adult and don't belittle other people.

Anyways, again:

No IP realloc = Hurts casual gamers, casual gamers WILL NOT reach the point of no IP worries anytime soon, IF EVER.

IP realloc = Fun for casual gamers, who will play only to lvl 80, 100 or so. They can optimize their character for that point of game-life. Fun for power gamers, they can try out different styles, fully optimize their characters again (heck a powergamer who DOESN'T have fun optimizing characters probably doesn't exist).

So, we are set at no fun for you, no fun for me... Fun?




To reiterate, one way to make IP reallocation feature:

Make a machine. You right click it. It asks for verification twice. If yes + yes, then do following ->

Kick + ban character for 1 minute
Modify player file with a procedure:
Reboot (empty) map unit, these credits are lost (It's not cheap to remodel neural pathways hey)
Move ALL gear on player (implant, equipment, inventory) to bank account and I mean ALL gear
Set character level to 1
Set breed/profession starting stats of lvl1 to HP/Nano/Abilities, and all skills to 0 skill raises
Set free IP to 1500
Charge a tax of 2% from _total_ exp (as in not the current lvl, but total ever gained exp, this is probably already stored about characters anyways so there is not much to do, just add a 0.98*X formula)
Move character to a room with no doors, just a machine that does the following when right clicked: awards 1xp (zingzingzing, you instantly level up to what your new 2% less total exp is good for) and teleports you to O1, Athen or Newland depending on side
Set a flag of "IP-Reallocation" which runs out if log-in day is 30RL days after flag setting day (is checked at login-time, and realloc-machine checks that this flag is not on, so realloc is doable only once a month and for 2% xp tax (which would probably mean a drop from say lvl100 to lvl97)

If you think 2% of total exp is not enough playtime lost for wishing to still PLAY the game and have FUN, well ... I'd rather have it at 0%, but some tax is good to be there. Also the flag for when can re-do allocation can be set at any period of time, month is about the maximum I'd suggest. I'd say week minimum. As for min xp tax well 0% min, but rather either 1 or 2%, maximum 5ish percents or so, or it will start to sting too much. Oh, and naturally a free reallocation (no xp tax) flag is set for people for the first time to give them ability to fix Funcom's mistakes. And after the machine is made, you can just set a flag for given professions if you go and make a big change to that profession...

[_____________Hossley]

Crin,

If there was to be an IP regain system, I like the idea of a(difficult) quest (or set of quests) to do it. No pain, no gain...

"In EQ..." (everyone sighs...) you could turn from being a non-PvP player to a PvP player very easily (it really sucked, but you could do it). To turn from a PvP player back into a non-PvP however supposedly took a lot of difficult questing to achieve (good interplay of risk to reward) - I never tried it myself, but that was the general consensus.

Come to think of it, I just like the idea of quests

Cheers,

Hoss.

[________Billy Talent]

Zero your logic is backwords. You say:

"Secondly, just to make it clear, I am not advocating an IP-Wipe as I think it's a poor idea considering higher level PCs will benefit much more than lower level ones considering the reduction in IP expenditure."


Umm, I have extra ip as it is, which I have no idea what to spend on. Getting a few extra won't make a differnece. I think you mean it will benefit lower lvl PCs, since they have more of an idea what to use the little IP points they normally get. Getting a few extra will benefit them.

Zero lets do the math. I have $10 left over after shopping to my delight. There is nothing else for me to buy. Wow, my grand daddy just hooked me up with 20 more bucks. Now I have 30 bucks of which I have no idea what to spend on.

On the other hand little timmy just got his weekly allowance and went shopping. He had 10 bucks and bought everything he could but couldn't get his favorite candy bar. He now has $0. His grand daddy hooks him up with a dollar. Wow timmy now can get his favortie candy bar.

[_______________Snarf]

> Zero claims: Au contraire, that only works IF the color of Intelligence (and I believe Computer Literacy has more than one dependancy) is the same as Computer Literacy. It will not work out equally if they are of differing colors. And besides, the IP-Wipe won't benefit low level characters whatsoever (as I have maintained since the beginngin), so this side discussion is moot honestly.

Ok, first you make claims that level has something to do with skills. Now you claim that the COLORS of attributes have something to do with their contribution to skill increase? Hahahaha. Oh my.

Here's some advice: It's better to keep your mouth shut and look stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

Snarf

[______________Yazule]

Here's some advice: It's better to keep your mouth shut and look stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

OMG snarf im gonna use that one LOL

[_________TorchDragon]

Not to sound like a literal twink here but as far as I recall, the color does matter. Its simply representational of how difficult it is for you to raise certain skills... I'm an Opifex Meta-phizz so increasing my intelligence is easier than my strength... They're different colors. Not trying to sound like an a-hole here, just possibly trying to clarify without aggression.

Oh... and um... tee hee, there's more to the game than just skills. *runs like a madman* :-)

[______________Othgar]

Originally posted by Xombie

And Funcom did the EXACT same thing with FA's. The only thing so far that has been taken away from players is the three armor types that were only attainable through exploits.

True again Xombie.. but I just used that as an example in the debate about the Item nerf's. I am just saying that to change an item already aquired and in use by someone isnt really the best course of action. Thats what generates debates such as this and takes away from the game. After all everyone plays to have fun and its not right IMHO to remove something OR change something someone has already invested thier time and IP in getting/using.

Lets take pillows for example since they seem to be the popular topic now... What FC should have done is remove them from the game but not from the people that already had them and do not change the stats. You will of course always have those that will scream that they are nerfed because they didnt get it when it was gettable but you know thats just part of it. Thats the point I was trying to make about the AC comparison and the one you made about the FA's.

[_______zeroframerate]

Originally posted by Snarf
Ok, first you make claims that level has something to do with skills. Now you claim that the COLORS of attributes have something to do with their contribution to skill increase? Hahahaha. Oh my.

Here's some advice: It's better to keep your mouth shut and look stupid than to open it and remove all doubt.

Hey, Snarfy-poo, your illiteracy problem is obviously reaching epidemic proportions.

When you return from grammar school and learn how to read, you'll note that:

1. Later in the thread I retracted my statement about the level affecting skills. If you knew how to read instead of being a childish twerp hiding behind a keyboard thinking he's the hottest little teenager prick since the late 1980s, then you would know that and your 1st sentence isn't valid.

2. If you could actually understand what you read, you'd know that I didn't say that the color of the attribute affects the numerical increase of the skill providing the attribute is raised the same amount.

I couldn't care less what anyone on this forum thinks about me. It does bring me some joy and satisfaction to note that you're constantly returning to a thread to post when you very early on stated that you weren't going to post in it anymore. And you follow up with idiotic statements supported by childish insults and think that's enough.

It may work with the majority of angry social misfits on this forum, but it doesn't work with me. Do you care? Obviously you do because you keep posting replies.

Keep posting that troll anger, kid. One day you might realize it just doesn't matter.

[_______zeroframerate]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow
Nope.

From level 2, with green Computer Literacy you can pump it 10 points total. That costs the same IP to do no matter what your intelligence "base" is. So if you max CL, 10 points is 10 points is 10 points.

Like I said, it only effects the non-max skills.

Actually, you're wrong on that. As was stated before and has to be repeated continually due to short-attention spans of children, it does not affect lower levels and therefore the discussion is moot. I believe level 2 to be a lower level.

Damn this is good fun. Boredom at work pays off in wasting other people's time ... all with just a simple post.

[_________TorchDragon]

As much fun as this is reading I think there's one thing you guys are missing... Well, actually maybe not. I was going to say a discussion should be like a game of chess where you present point and counter point until someone runs out of credibility and gets backed into their own corner and gets canned. But then I realized its just as easy to sit there and ridecule the person you're playing against until they get so frustrated they make a mistake or just throw the chess board to the floor and scream and cry... Either way it makes for an amusing scenario. *shrug* Just an observation.

[_______zeroframerate]

Of course you can play too!

Intelligent mature discussions aren't possible in forums nowadays because of the whole Internet-Anonymity thing, so it's really best to just post whatever, let the kids pointlessly flame you, and just sit back.

You'd be surpised how many trolls you can pick up with just one simple piece of bait. I've managed to reel in a few in this thread so far. It's a great way to kill time if you don't have other options.

[_________TorchDragon]

Isn't there some kind of process I have to go through though? Like... I buy the game and play it non-stop hard core until I know it in and out. Like step 1 or something.

Then Phase 2 is the game no longer becomes fun and starts to become this arcane deconstruction of minor points of the game that are put under microscopic scrutiny, information is gathered, but then ignored on the way to Part 3.

That would be the part where someone makes a relavent statement to the game like, "FunCom's programmers don't know anything." Whether its truthful or not I think isn't important but I'm not sure how far truth goes these days so that might be moot.

Tier 4 is when someone comes along and goes "Yar! I no like you! You suck more!" or something equally enlightening and then snowballs from there for a bit till it gets to the bottom of the hill.

Area 5, which lives at the bottom of the hill I think is just the ego roast with complimentary wet bar at the end where people rest up until they climb back on the lift up to Part 3.

Do I have the order right? I mean, I don't want to just post in on this whole thing and mess up the thread karma. I mean, I may not post all that much but I don't want people to be offended by my "green-ness" in trolling. Is there a trolling-FAQ somewhere around that I could get some pointers off of?

[__________Lucid Flow]

Originally posted by zeroframerate


Actually, you're wrong on that. As was stated before and has to be repeated continually due to short-attention spans of children, it does not affect lower levels and therefore the discussion is moot. I believe level 2 to be a lower level.

Damn this is good fun. Boredom at work pays off in wasting other people's time ... all with just a simple post.

You continually miss the point. CONTINUALLY!

For this example, i'll remove title locks and caps because I don't know them exactly.

A level 100 PC with Green Computer Literacy skill can pump the skill 500 points. (We all know this isn't true because of title caps but it's an example). The point being made, you are allowed 5 extra points to this skill PER LEVEL regardless of base abilities. Base Abilities can allow you to go above and beyond your normal level cap. Therefor they are completely irellevant with regards to IP cost on MAXED skills.

Now will you please quit dodging.

[_______zeroframerate]

Originally posted by Lucid Flow
You continually miss the point. CONTINUALLY!

For this example, i'll remove title locks and caps because I don't know them exactly.

A level 100 PC with Green Computer Literacy skill can pump the skill 500 points. (We all know this isn't true because of title caps but it's an example). The point being made, you are allowed 5 extra points to this skill PER LEVEL regardless of base abilities. Base Abilities can allow you to go above and beyond your normal level cap. Therefor they are completely irellevant with regards to IP cost on MAXED skills.

Now will you please quit dodging.

Dodging? I'm trying to keep the discussion on track, but you insist about talk about this tangent which has nothing to do with the original discussion (the merits of an IP-Wipe).

Why do you insist on talking about this when it isn't the topic at all?